About to begin: general advise and a couple of Golarion questions


Rise of the Runelords

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Ho, Paizo boards!

It's been quite a while since I was last here, partly because I've mostly stuck to my own houserules which arguably should be called 3.Aotrs by now (with a lot of the better ideas of PF pulled in), but mostly because we've been playing converted AD&D modules that took an AGE to finish. (We're just coming up completing Night Below after about four years...!)

(I'm quite impressed how active this subforum is, actually...!)

Anyway, our next advanture will finally start us down an adventure path RotRL(the first of three, Runelord, Shackled City and I can't even remember the name of the other one off hand aside it was one of the non-Egyptian sort of ones...)

I am at the stage of getting the PCs to write me some background so I can set them in place for the start of the adventure (and also so I can get some ideas about sins and whatnot for later!) It's a big party - our group, after years of struggling with four-five players (and down to three-four in the last few) has swelled up to eight. I'd already done some modifications for my preferred party size of six, so I just upped again for the rest. Anyhow, the party is going to consist of a Bard, a Bard (yes, I know, but what can you do...*), a Cleric, a Wizard, a Druid (the latter two in the hands of expereinced players and the former, who is less familar with the system, will be heavily advised on optimal spells from both sides of the screen!) a rogue, a barbarian and a Warblade.

Anyway, enough of the endless preamble.

My first question is one loosely related to RotRL, but here seemed as good a place to ask it as any.

The first bard - the newest player, ironically (though not new to roleplaying in general) - has determined he is from a Shoanti tribe (or subtribe, we're still not hugely clear on how big a tribe is) that was wiped out bu Hobgoblins and he was basically adopted and raised by the Varisian tribe that found him. (All fair enough.)

So, how big are the Shoanti tribes (if it's ever specified)?

We have some sample tribe names for the Shoanti tribes, anyway, but there aren't any one I could immediately find for the Varisian tribes. Could anyone a little more familar with Golorin than I provide some suggestions (or failing that, point me to any mention of same anywhere in the adventure path.)

Secondly, I seeded a few ideas (as for backgrounds, I usually add a little section as to why the PC is where they are specifically with an eye to the specifics of the game) for the bard's reasons to be at Sandpoint (the festival, the theatre, the Virisian seer and the Shoant Innkeeper.) This last was in the hope that the bard might go and talk to him and find ut what he was doing there (and also as a not-so-subtle prompt on which inn to put the Bard at as much as anything else). The player is now asking if he can be from the same tribe as Garridan and whether they would know each other or if he would know why Garridan left and so on and so on. (The massecre of the bard's tribe happened 9-10 years ago, my player tells me; I have no idea how that fits into Garridan's timeline, or even if one is ever given. (The inn description mentioned a wife and children, but I didn't see them named or given ages, though I could have just missed it!)

Suggestions on how to handle this would be welcome. The new player seems a bit more into the roleplaying end than we generally deal with (we do fall more into the fight-y end, mostly being wargamers at heart...) and this is getting a bit more complicated than I was really looking at in the "it's just a dungeon dressing!" sort of way...!

(While it is novel to have so much enthusiam, it is also something I am unused to, since I (and the group in general) tend to focus much more on the "what" the party is doing than the "who" that is doing it, if that makes sense...)

Finally, then, are there any things that I should be especially aware of that might not be too obvious? Or resources of particular note (I know there was loads of extra stuff for Shackled City that I cribbed from these forums a while back when we had two groups and I was expecting one to be doing RotRL and the other SC)?

*I have *strongly* suggested that one or other takes Dragonfire Inspiration before many levels elapse, so they don't step on each other's toes. At bottom level, they'll have sufficently few uses that they'll be taking turns each combat anyway.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Aotrscommander wrote:
Ho, Paizo boards!

Hello!

Quote:
Anyhow, the party is going to consist of a Bard, a Bard (yes, I know, but what can you do...*)

Archetypes, man! Surely one of them is different enough to at least consider an archetype?

Quote:
The first bard - the newest player, ironically (though not new to roleplaying in general) - has determined he is from a Shoanti tribe

He might want to look at Thundercaller!

Quote:
So, how big are the Shoanti tribes (if it's ever specified)?

Big and organized into clans called Quah. A village or more might be wiped out, but you aren't going to get The Last of the Moon-Clan without it being a pretty epic event. A whole family might even be destroyed, but the clan as a whole is much more formidable.

Quote:
Could anyone a little more familar with Golorin than I provide some suggestions (or failing that, point me to any mention of same anywhere in the adventure path.)

From what I can tell, Varisians don't have tribes as political groups like Shoanti clans are, so the names of family groups aren't as important to talk about. They are just families, not tribal nations.

As for the background stuff, check out the campaign traits for ideas, even if you don't use traits personally. Download the free Player's Guide for assistance there!

Make sure you have good rules for drinking Hagfish water. I like a Will save (DC 15) to drink it and then a Fort save to keep it down (DC 15, success means you are merely sickened) followed by another Fort save a minute later to actually recover enough to avoid throwing up again. The first two saves are all you need to win, but the final save is to keep from making a fool of yourself all over the bar.

That is all I can think of for the moment.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Stone Dog wrote:
Archetypes, man! Surely one of them is different enough to at least consider an archetype?

I suspect that to be a Pathfinder thing, so no. I did try and prod one or other of them in the option of multiclassing (Bard/Warblade, Bard (Tempest Stormwind's sublime) Marshal) but neither seemed interested, they both wanted to be supporting the party (despite my attempts to suggest there were lots of ways to "support the party".)

I think one of them is going with Dragonfire Inspiration, which should at least go some way to ensuring their bardic music doesn't overlap.

(Well, I think my exact phrasing was, "if you both want to be bards, fine, but one of you *needs* to take dragonfire inspiration or you'll be getting on each other's toes.)

Like I said, what can you do?

Stone Dog wrote:
He might want to look at Thundercaller!

Pathfinder again, I take it? If it's on the Pathfinder SRD/wiki thingy, I'll certainly take a look.

Stone Dog wrote:
Big and organized into clans called Quah. A village or more might be wiped out, but you aren't going to get The Last of the Moon-Clan without it being a pretty epic event. A whole family might even be destroyed, but the clan as a whole is much more formidable.

Yeah, did wonder whether that would be the case. Village it shall be then...

Stone Dog wrote:

From what I can tell, Varisians don't have tribes as political groups like Shoanti clans are, so the names of family groups aren't as important to talk about. They are just families, not tribal nations.

As for the background stuff, check out the campaign traits for ideas, even if you don't use traits personally. Download the free Player's Guide for assistance there!

Done the latter, long time since! (Unless there's an expanded newer version or something.)

So, I take it then that Varisian clans are likely to have names not unlike their first or second names in sound and structure?

Stone Dog wrote:
Make sure you have good rules for drinking Hagfish water. I like a Will save (DC 15) to drink it and then a Fort save to keep it down (DC 15, success means you are merely sickened) followed by another Fort save a minute later to actually recover enough to avoid throwing up again. The first two saves are all you need to win, but the final save is to keep from making a fool of yourself all over the bar.

I'll have to look up where Hagfish water crops up, but point noted...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Whoops... yeah, mechanical advice is largely Pathfinder. My bad.

Aotrscommander wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
He might want to look at Thundercaller!
Pathfinder again, I take it? If it's on the Pathfinder SRD/wiki thingy, I'll certainly take a look.
Quote:

It is, I just don't really know how to link here and I was lazy at the time. Sorry.

The Hagfish is a tavern in Sandpoint and there is a standing contest there. Pay a silver into the bag, drink a mug of the water from the tank and keep the bag if you keep the water. Hagfish water is DEEPLY unpleasant stuff.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Noted.

I've trawled the community resouces thread for lots of stuff (handouts, which *skullplam* I realised I'd not done (I had for Shackled city, so I thought I'd done Runelords too... Also realised I need to go through and print a few more bits out - I'd printed the adventure and the Sandpoint part, but just looking at the first two parts, I also need to print out the Magnimar bits as well! *sigh* Job for another day, that...)

One of things I located was a calendar, which is all well and good, but what is the start date for the camapaign? It says the festival is the first day of autumn, but without a reference, I have no idea where that fits in said calendar. Anyone know?


Dude, you may want to clue us in on some of the mechanics you use and how far from Pathfinder you're deviating. Otherwise you'll get a mix of both fluff and crunch.

For example, in pathfinder, using archetypes, some of which have cultural flavour (like Thundercaller), you could have 3 bards that don't really overlap

So what do you really need as advice?


Aotrscommander wrote:

Noted.

I've trawled the community resouces thread for lots of stuff (handouts, which *skullplam* I realised I'd not done (I had for Shackled city, so I thought I'd done Runelords too... Also realised I need to go through and print a few more bits out - I'd printed the adventure and the Sandpoint part, but just looking at the first two parts, I also need to print out the Magnimar bits as well! *sigh* Job for another day, that...)

One of things I located was a calendar, which is all well and good, but what is the start date for the camapaign? It says the festival is the first day of autumn, but without a reference, I have no idea where that fits in said calendar. Anyone know?

It’s been worked out as being the 22nd or 23rd of Rova, 4607. ;)

And FWIW, the ‘Thundercaller’ bard archetype is from Varisia: Birthplace of Legends and is awesomely Shoanti-flavoured. And has some clout at later levels, too. A Shoanti bard with the ability to call lightning on people at level 8 onwards? All kinds of ‘tribal-bard’ RP potential there for him, IMO.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

Dude, you may want to clue us in on some of the mechanics you use and how far from Pathfinder you're deviating. Otherwise you'll get a mix of both fluff and crunch.

For example, in pathfinder, using archetypes, some of which have cultural flavour (like Thundercaller), you could have 3 bards that don't really overlap

So what do you really need as advice?

Trace Coburn wrote:
And FWIW, the ‘Thundercaller’ bard archetype is from Varisia: Birthplace of Legends and is awesomely Shoanti-flavoured. And has some clout at later levels, too. A Shoanti bard with the ability to call lightning on people at level 8 onwards? All kinds of ‘tribal-bard’ RP potential there for him, IMO.

Basically 3.5, rather than Pathfinder (though I've essentially cribbed the way Pathfinder's skill system works and folded a few skills together, but not quite the same as Pathfinder did).

That said, I am, as you can see, not at all above cribbing some ideas from Pathfinder and retrofitting them back to 3.5 (well, at this stage, it's really more of 3.Aotrs...) While we're still using standard bard at the moment, I am looking at the aformentioned Thundercaller and havign a think about how to fit is (as basically alternative class features or something) to Bard - if either of the two players are interested. (I'll speak to them about it when I see them in person on Monday.)

(We haven't used bards in a while, and they are further back on the power end of things (and a lot of the other weaker classes (e.g. core noncasters) have already recieved a boost from our houserules). I'm sort of running out of time to do much seriously constructive, but perhaps I should have a look at the PF bard more seriously as a power-up (as I note that they seem to get 1st spells at level 1, for a kick-off.)

Trace Coburn wrote:
It’s been worked out as being the 22nd or 23rd of Rova, 4607. ;)

Cheers.


Well, the other thing to remember is that pathfinder characters are, in general, more powerful than their 3.5 equivalents. For one, they get more feats.

The bard got a serious upgrade.

You might want to track down the original AP books for ROTRL. They were written for 3.5.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

Well, the other thing to remember is that pathfinder characters are, in general, more powerful than their 3.5 equivalents. For one, they get more feats.

The bard got a serious upgrade.

Not a problem, since my houserules have generally been about cutting out/errataing some of the more abusive spells and generally buffing the weaker classes; it's a fairly high optimisation environment (I've added quite a few extra classed monsters in rounding out the path for eight characters).

Our fighters, for example, get a feat every level, some feat give them special bonuses (and no, Warblade, wile you qualify for fighter feats, you are not actually a fighter so you can't have them!) - Iron Will actually changes your save progression to good, for example, and the feats gained every odd level don't have to be Fighter feats. It makes enough difference, especially the way we play. (Bard simply hasn't been on the list for a while, like Monk/Fighter/Paladin/Rogue etc etc. (Barbarian kinda didn't need the help with some of the new alternative class features (*cough*Pounce*cough*) from late 3.5 material.)

(One other balance is that the PCs end up facing a lot more casters when I'm at the helm, which somewhat negates the Cleric's ability to go "I self-buff and murder everything", as everything *always* loads at least one Dispel and they are often among the most common enemies! Put it this way "big, glowy cleric" has become nearly a group meme...!)

But yes, I probably need to have a hard look at Bard if/when I can find some time (it'll mightbly spend the player who we're talking about slightly up the wall (he has insisted on generating his character, despite me saying all but outright "wait until the whole group does it") though it probably won't really affect him at level 1 anyway.

darkwarriorkarg wrote:
You might want to track down the original AP books for ROTRL. They were written for 3.5.

That's what I *am* using!

RotTL has been on the cards for literally YEARS. Basically, what happened was we had two RPG groups running. I was running AD&D modules converted to 3.5, and the plan had been that RotRL would be run for one group next, and Shackled City for the other.

However, one group basically started to struggle for people making it every week, and the other (the one that had been existant for the last twenty years!) hadn't had - despite our best efforts - any new players (it was at Rolls-Royce, so we weren't exactly able to pick people up as easily). They finally had started charging us for the room, and told us we couldn't have any storage space anymore (after the aforementioned twenty years...) And then one of the last two chaps out of the five of us left who actually worked at RR moved to Germany. So we combined the two groups, which left us right in the middle of the aforementined AD&D modules. As I don't waste quests (my quest writing is sufficiently elaborate these days that I don't have time or energy to write whole campaigns any more), we finished those two paths off (well are finishing off). Between that and a break for 4E that someone else ran, we've only just got to RotRLs.

Put it this way, I first sent out the player's guide around the players in *2009!*

(I didn't even know there *was* an updated version until I came back to the forums yesterday...!)

So between this, Shackled City and the other adventure path I've already got, we shouldn't have any shortage of campaign material for a few years yet before I have to buy any more!

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