Hey guys, looking for advice on how to use Xanesha!


Rise of the Runelords


Hey everyone,

my PC's will likely be facing Xanesha this Sunday and I have a few problems.

1. I really like the characters, and more often than not end up doing things to save the PC's, as without players or characters, there's no game.

2. I want the fear of death to be ever present, but I want the PC's to have a good chance of surviving, but at the same time remaining fun for me, as I know it's my role to try and kill the PC's, so any advice here is welcome!

3. Xanesha has Charm Monster at Will, along with three uses of Deep Slumber per day, and 7 uses of Invisibility. Now, it seems a little harsh to do nothing but Charm the PC's, forcing them to attack one another with failed saves, and casting Deep Slumber just to full round action coup de grace seems harsh, as does going invisible to sneak attack constantly, but she's a BBEG, so surely it's in her nature to do all of these tactics?

Considering this, it seems unlikely any of the PC's will survive, so how should I go about this?

Thanks very much!


Your role is not to kill the Pcs. Your role is to make sure everyone has fun.

Spoiler:

My cleric was smart enough to cast invisibility purge in her lair and to have previously cast circle of protection from evil + protection from evil on our weak-willed thugs.

We still had to wake up people (like our gunslinger musket master) a few times. Slumber still works through protection from evil.

And she's going to waste a full-round action doing coup-de-grace while other people can pound the crap out of her? I don't think so.

Plus, you can't sneak attack-invisible too well. Sneak attack dispels invisibility. Invisibility is a standard action. So at best a sneak attack every 2 rounds.


X will, at this point, be out of allies. So she's much more likely to try to charm people to work for her rather than kill them. Capture and charm, definitely. So don't try to kill the PCs. Try to capture them. After all, they're inferior species. Easy to capture and turn.


Okay, and how would I roleplay that? Just say she takes them all to Turtleback Ferry...which I think is the next chapter (need to read ahead).

The other thing is, Justice I charmed the fighter to keep going at the kid in the party, eventually knocking out both the Rogue and kid Magus with Drow Poison, with the strong fighter still attacking the downed kid as I fled the building briefly (I had him backing down the stairs constantly, to deal with them one at a time).

I is meant to fight to the death and with his blade upstairs, he could only fire his crossbow. The PC's didn't get one attack off on him (after his buff's his AC is like 31) and not being able to hit my GMPC every time he tried, with my GMPC failing to hit him also, he decided to go for the one he charmed, breaking the spell and ending up being captured by my GMPC, with the fighter putting manacles on him.

I'm not entirely sure how to get the PC's to notice he's being charmed by X, or where to take this, as the law in Magnimar...I'm assuming will arrest the PC's for holding a Justice in cuff's, and with I's high Bluff check, it's likely he'll say the PC's are holding him against his will and that they are really members of the SS cult.

Currently they have him on lockdown in the Sawmill and have attempted to talk to him twice with no answer...so if they try again I think I'll have him answer, but am a little stuck on what to do with this.

I don't know how the trial would go if taken to it, and he still has a command spell left, so could probably escape outside in time.


What you do depends a lot on what edition you are playing. There are massive differences between the original AP and the anniversary editions when it comes to this encounter.
I haven't yet had the time to study the anniversary edition in detail, but the original version was pretty light in details and hints about the cult. Is there still time to send them on a side adventure, perhaps another murder they have to investigate before they can confront her? You could use that to fill in a bit more background and give the players some warning as to what they may face.
Charm Monster is powerful, but once combat has begun, it's +5 to the save. And if you drop some hints the party could go out and get Protection from Evil scrolls; if cast at the right time it will render the ability useless. And she won't know about it, so she should waste at least one, maybe two actions before she realizes that they didn't just resist her, but were magically protected. You need to keep track of durations though, and maybe should encourage them to buy/make higher level (longer duration) scrolls.
Deep Slumber can be nasty to very small parties, or parties that are very spread out (Don't split the party!), but since it's just a powered up sleep spell, slapping the target will wake it up. So Xanesha's action can be so easily undone, that casting the spell is a waste of an action in most situations.

If you are filling out the background some more, especially if you are playing the original edition, you should also consider to level the party before they face her. Sure, they'll be a bit ahead in XP for the rest of the AP, but that won't matter all that much. And to deal with her AC (an issue mostly in the original version) you should drop a lamia-bane weapon. Maybe the latest murder victim had divined who was responsible and tried to bring Xanesha to justice, only to die; a lamia bane weapon should certainly intrigue the party when they find it.
By now there's also a lot of extra stuff about Magnimar. Like the monuments you can honor for various bonuses. Encouraging the players to visit some of them could also give them a bit of a temporary boost specifically for this encounter.

Of course the make-up of your party is also relevant. And how well they have been doing so far. If you want more specific ideas of what to do, we will need more information.


Ah, sorry, here's some more info:

1. They've literally only just beaten Justice I (not sure how to roleplay that, as the law will most likely be on his side) and are staying in the Sawmill for the night.

2. The party consists of:

Tristan: 15 year old half-elf Magus/Rogue, adoptive son of the Sheriff, idolises the GMPC (Brik) and focuses on Shocking Grasp. Currently wields N's Bastard Sword.

Jackery: Sword and Board Fighter and ex-bandit, learning how to be good...or was meant to be before chopping off an SS cultists feet, picking up one of the feet, slapping him about with it, shoving it in its owners mouth, relieving himself on the still alive cultist, then slapping him hard with his own foot again, before tying his feet back to his legs with rope....yea, he's pretty evil I'd say. An evil guy on the good side, go figure.

Brik: GMPC, a Sword and Board Cleric of own ideals but appreciates Cayden, and is a Drunk...but is sober currently.

Deimos: Tiefling Sword and Board Rogue (poisoner)/Ranger who's done some bad things in his past.

3. The Magus (Tristan) detected magic earlier when Justice I was invisible, and with him now held captive, I was thinking maybe there's some way the PC's can work out he's under a Charm spell.

4. I play with the Anniversary Edition, but have both versions.

5. I think having a Lamia Bane weapon is a little too convenient, and nobody checks what race creatures are with knowledge checks, seemingly wanting to fight more than roleplay....minus my gf who gets Tristan to try to talk to enemies etc.

6. My GF doesn't want to die at all, seeing her little Half-Elf boy as a god. My friend Dave accepts that he may die, but would prefer not to, and my friend Dyl wants death to be a constant threat...so I have three different types of players all wanting slightly different things, but enjoying it regardless.


Apollo Randasian wrote:
Okay, and how would I roleplay that? Just say she takes them all to Turtleback Ferry...which I think is the next chapter (need to read ahead).

Not necessarily. Remember that Xanesha is in Magnimar for a reason. If she gets all PCs and they didn't tell anyone that they were going after her, she could very well stay and use them to restart her operations. Fleeing Magnimar is admitting defeat and may cost her life.

And Charm Person doesn't give her full control over the PC anyway. They are merely friendly not her slaves, so taking them anywhere is problematic at best with her support structure dismantled.

Apollo Randasian wrote:

The other thing is, Justice I charmed the fighter to keep going at the kid in the party, eventually knocking out both the Rogue and kid Magus with Drow Poison, with the strong fighter still attacking the downed kid as I fled the building briefly (I had him backing down the stairs constantly, to deal with them one at a time).

I is meant to fight to the death and with his blade upstairs, he could only fire his crossbow. The PC's didn't get one attack off on him (after his buff's his AC is like 31) and not being able to hit my GMPC every time he tried, with my GMPC failing to hit him also, he decided to go for the one he charmed, breaking the spell and ending up being captured by my GMPC, with the fighter putting manacles on him.

I'm not entirely sure how to get the PC's to notice he's being charmed by X, or where to take this, as the law in Magnimar...I'm assuming will arrest the PC's for holding a Justice in cuff's, and with I's high Bluff check, it's likely he'll say the PC's are holding him against his will and that they are really members of the SS cult.

Currently they have him on lockdown in the Sawmill and have attempted to talk to him twice with no answer...so if they try again I think I'll have him answer, but am a little stuck on what to do with this.

I don't know how the trial would go if taken to it, and he still has a command spell left, so could probably escape outside in time.

I. has good bluff and the guards will give him the benefit of the doubt, but the players will have some physical evidence and I. is certain to have political enemies. At worst I. would talk himself out of trouble, but there should be enough uncertainty that others would accept the actions of the party. He'd be free and even free of domination may seek revenge later if his career was hurt/ended, but that's an adventure seed for the future.

As for how to reveal information, the Charm Monster spell only lasts 13 hours, unless I'm mistaken, so it must be renewed twice a day (makes timing interesting, when you think about it). So it's entirely reasonable that the spell expires at some point. And once it does, Ironbriar would be willing to make deals anyway. He's certainly no longer loyal to Xanesha. Of course he remembers to past failed interrogation attempts and would probably try to use the party for his own advantage. ("As I see it there are two options. Sooner or later the guard will find me and I tell them you attacked me without provocation, or you let me go, and I call the guard to clean this mess up and we tell everyone that I hired you to back me up as I investigated what was supposed to be corruption in the city guard, but turned out to be an attempted assassination on me by the murder cult.")


Okay, low RP group. That has it's advantages. They will know/care little of the background, so fudging is easier. I guess elaborate plots where they need to figure things out are out. So be blunt.
The next time they visit I. for interrogation the Charm spell has expired and he tells them that a monster took control of his mind. Convincing the party may be hard, but I guess you don't use too much subterfuge, so they should go along with it, right?
Ironbriar wants them to defeat Xanesha (the only person who knows what truly happened), so he points them in the right direction and supplies them with potions of protection from evil and deals with all the legal/public aspects for them. (Of course he will take a lot of credit and gain more influence in the city, instead of loosing any, so as long as the players stay quite about what happened, they have a powerful ally in the future.)
He may also tell them about the monuments and what boni they grant or at least those he considers most useful against Xanesha.
He could/should warn them that the monster gets around because it can become invisible with its magic, so your cleric could learn invisibility purge. Maybe a scroll of see invisible for the Magus. If they were struggling, think about some more one-use items for them. I would think that your GF for one would appreciate some oil of lamia-bane for her weapon to do 'awesome damage'.

All that should give the party the power to deal with Xanesha and let them get to the fights without too many distractions. Oh, and just to drive home the danger, think about killing your GMPC. I doubt they would expect that. Afterwards you could suggest that one of them ought to take leadership to get a healer in the future. Or they can hire a new healer for a lot of coin... with only sharing treasure three ways they have the extra gold. Anyway, they should know their party dynamics well enough to see the need for a healer and have the resources to handle it without a GMPC.


Okay, thanks very much!

I guess in that case, Xanesha will wonder why her pawn hasn't reported back to her, and instead will be expecting them, if she catches word of I. working alongside/talking with them.


Apollo Randasian wrote:

Okay, and how would I roleplay that? Just say she takes them all to Turtleback Ferry...which I think is the next chapter (need to read ahead).

The other thing is, Justice I charmed the fighter to keep going at the kid in the party, eventually knocking out both the Rogue and kid Magus with Drow Poison, with the strong fighter still attacking the downed kid as I fled the building briefly (I had him backing down the stairs constantly, to deal with them one at a time).

I is meant to fight to the death and with his blade upstairs, he could only fire his crossbow. The PC's didn't get one attack off on him (after his buff's his AC is like 31) and not being able to hit my GMPC every time he tried, with my GMPC failing to hit him also, he decided to go for the one he charmed, breaking the spell and ending up being captured by my GMPC, with the fighter putting manacles on him.

I'm not entirely sure how to get the PC's to notice he's being charmed by X, or where to take this, as the law in Magnimar...I'm assuming will arrest the PC's for holding a Justice in cuff's, and with I's high Bluff check, it's likely he'll say the PC's are holding him against his will and that they are really members of the SS cult.

Currently they have him on lockdown in the Sawmill and have attempted to talk to him twice with no answer...so if they try again I think I'll have him answer, but am a little stuck on what to do with this.

I don't know how the trial would go if taken to it, and he still has a command spell left, so could probably escape outside in time.

My highly charismatic Diplobat cleric (yea glory domain!) got him to boast (yes, a GM decision) about his lady love... so we ended up with sufficient clues to put it together.

But in any case, we have a common practice of placing circle of protection from evil on our fighter,alchemist or gunslinger to avoid having them get dominated anyway...


Not to derail, but how did Ironbriar have an AC of 31?

I'm running him tomorrow, so I'm not seeing it, but I want him to be a serious encounter since my crew has been steamrolling most foes.

In this chapter, only the ghoul bat has given them any significant problems, and that was because they sent the unbuffed oracle through the cave first.

Shadow Lodge

Another thing I would point out to buy the party a little time: she may want to mark them with the sihedron before killing them off. And I understand doing this properly is a ritual involving some time. Maybe hopefully enough to allow an escape attempt.


Well his AC is standard at 26, but after he cast Shield of Faith and Cat's Grace, it shot up to 31 or above, but maybe I did that wrong? I don't know if the Anniversary book accounts for all buff's or not.


I believe that Ironbriar has AC 26 when buffed. For example, he doesn't have any gear which would give him a deflection bonus to AC, but his pre-combat buff suite includes the Shield of Faith spell - which would give him a +3 deflection bonus to AC at caster level 6.

Sczarni

He already precasted those spells I believe to get to 26. 31 wasn't possible unless he is using Mobility vs AoO.

On topic, Apollo, key often at giving the players challenge is to use worse or better tactical choices for an NPC:

She might try to disarm, trip, sunder or single attack instead.
She might try to demoralize single person.
She might try to waste a Deep Slumber if you wish on single person.
She might try to fight defensively or switch targets alot preventing her to full-attack alot.
She might try to drink potion in middle of combat.

These are all ways to ease the damage in combat and depending on the situation, maybe not so effective tactics. These are your tools when you want to ease the challenge while improving the challenge can be done with additional prebuff spells and better tactical choices.


Thanks very much for the advice guys.

I think you've advised me previously Malag. I've posted here under my Bandavaar The Brave alias before.

Out of curiosity, how do you all GM? I feel the challenge now lacks from my games, as I seem to keep people alive quite often, and as much as I want people to play, I still need death to be a realistic threat.

Nualia has been taken hold of, broken by Vorel's curse and will likely be put into Habe's Sanitorium, possibly being an NPC to aid the party later.


I haven't GM'ed in years (no time), although I help my current GM (storyboarding & tactical advice... yes, even to use against us.)

HOWEVER, back in my Eberron days, and even before, it was more about storytelling then challenging the characters. You don't nee dto make death a realistic threat... it just has to be a possibility.

Change your focus from event driven to character-driven (if you have the players for it).

Poll your players, ask them how they want to develop their characters. Even in APs, there's room for small quests and background events. If you have some lumps, let them be. But those who want to contribute to the story will counter that. Rolling dice just gets boring after a while. Example of current sub-plots in our own ROTRL game:

- Our gunslinging musket master skipped out on a dubiously arranged marriage in Alkenstar and ended up in Sandpoint (he thought it would be a desert region with that name). Well, the lady and some goons are closing in on him.

- My own character, involved with everyone's favorite ranger (took her as a cohort) wants to know more about his varisian grandparents who died during the founding of Sandpoint.

Sczarni

Just GM. That's it. Try to hold personal feelings on the side and not let them affect the game outcome. Do what you think NPC would do.

I realize that it's hard to kill actually a player for a GM. It's never a fair death from my experience and you probably won't be able to cheer them up about it unless they had some experience with dying already. But if players never die because you softball, they will get spoiled eventually.

I know that this might not work for every group, so I will reserve this opinion as my own. Every group works different and likes different things about the game.


I feel sorry for players that have a GM who feels that body count dictates the difficulty of a campaign. Character death rarely does much else but leave a bad taste in the mouth. I've never been a GM that seeks to kill characters. Actually, I hate killing characters because that's not where the fun resides.

What's important in the long run is the perceived threat. Players want their characters to be in danger. That's where the excitement really exists! I prefer to play up that aspect of the game. It's never unusual to hear players constantly retelling the stories about how close their characters came to dying during this fight, but how such-and-such managed to pull off this amazing feat to put down the enemy just when it was looking well past bad for them, or how this character had ticked down to -12 hit points (with a Con of 13), and a fellow character dove in just in time to stop the bleeding and save them. Players remember these things and enjoy "reliving" them over and over again! Never have I heard a player of mine get excited about rehashing how one of their beloved characters died. That's not exciting; it's depressing, and it's not why my players choose to play the game.

Does this mean that death never happens in my games? Not at all. Sometimes, players put themselves into some pretty bad situations by doing some pretty stupid things. Situations like that occur and characters die. I just had a moment in my last RotRL game where a sorcerer turned himself invisible and ran right into the midst of five stone giants. Well, he rolled pathetically low on his stealth and a stone giant heard him, used a full round action to locate him, then told all the other giants exactly where he was at. They proceeded to stick him to death with giant spears . . . but my player even admitted that he should have known better than to do something like that. It was a bold move, and not an overly smart one! Thus, my players know that, while I don't ever like to kill their characters in a game, I'm not necessarily going to let them just do whatever they want without consequences.

This method always works incredibly well for my group, and everyone has a blast! They know there is definitive danger to their characters, yet rarely do I ever actually kill one of them. It also enables them to play out the many stories that they create, as opposed to having to leave them go unfinished constantly through constant character death.


I keep track of character hit points (it helps that I use Hero Labs, but that can get expensive). And I'm not afraid to fudge die rolls... so I'll reduce someone to single hit points.. and then have a foe switch targets to toy with them. (Mal the Barghast did this, though partly because a yummy elf came in the room to play.)

Feel free to fudge a lethal roll so that they're on the low end of negative hit points. It gives them time to recover or be healed... but lets them think "oh hell I'm going to die!"


Okay guys, just an update to say what's going on:

Through a strange turn of events, the PC's managed to arrest and bring in Ironbriar, the psychopathic ex-bandit PC attacked a Magnimarian guard that got in his way, slicing him in half with one foul swoop...he got arrested, Ironbriar got arrested (although the guards were feeling both fear and hesitance towards arresting the high powered man), slinging both Ironbriar and Jackery into the Hell's for questioning.

With Iron's ledger, the remaining PC's Brik and Tristan had enough evidence to receive the benefit of the doubt from the guards, who would accompany them to Sandpoint, visiting Quink for a translation of the ledger which would take 5 days.

With Deimos (PC Tiefling) being treated of Drow Poison in the Church of Abadar, the two PC's Brik and Tristan returned to see how he was doing, while the guards told them to meet back in the morning.

In the morning Brik and Tristan awoke to check on Deimos who passed out almost instantly again, not from the poison but from a lack of Charisma thanks to Vorel's Phage (every party member but Brik has it, though Tristan only needs to save one more consecutive day and he'll be cured of it), making yet another trip to the Church of Abadar.

Meanwhile, Jackery had his belongings taken away, but for some reason his mask and clothes remained, allowing him to use his Stalker's mask to look like a guard he had disguised himself as earlier (the guard is still alive and I ruled that he could disguise himself as anyone he can see or from memory), claiming that "Jackery" escaped and locked him in the cell...getting himself free'd.

He then wandered around Magnimar, pulling his mask off to look like his normal self once more. Narrowly missing the party however, he carried on walking around the streets until he caught a shimmer of gold out of the corner of his eye, which was Brik who he caught up to.

On this same morning however, Ironbriar was calling out of his cell, claiming he had nothing to do with the killings or cult, and infuriated with Xanesha, offered to show the party where Xanesha's lair was, so long as they looked the other way and let him go, as he was under the effects of her charm spell.

When asked if there were any precautions they could take, he told them to purchase a Protection from Evil scroll, but didn't say why, and was accompanied with a standard Guard as well as a Guard Captain (the two guards who escorted the PC's to Sandpoint) while he was held in cuff's at the bottom of The Shadow Clock.

The PC's asked that they'd all accompany them, but Ironbriar was afraid, well aware of the Lamia's power, and the guards opted to stay outside, in case of falling debris.

As battles went on, the Scarecrow fell (but not before dealing massive damage to Jackery...who somehow snuck in past the guards who he walked IN FRONT OF) and Brik told everyone to make their way upstairs, just as Jackery critted the Scarecrow in his retreat, followed by Brik who stood up front with his shield, while Deimos fired his bow from the bottom of the stairs, dealing the finishing blow with a max damage shot.

I ruled that because we were playing with crit-cards and Brik pulled the exhaustion one, it would only take the -6 penalty to Str and Dex, not the rest of the effects it was immune to.

Brik narrowly avoided the falling Bell Tower (missed his Flat-Footed AC of 29 - He has 27AC with a minus in Dex), while Deimos was clipped by it, pulling him down by the shoulder, but only skimming him, allowing him to grab hold of the ledge to prevent a further fall (on 5hp at this point).

As the PC's climbed their way up, after a few not too far falls, they realised they should keep their distance from one another and went up with 10-30ft spaces between them, jumping over previous holes until they were confronted by three Faceless Stalkers at the top of the stairs, blocking their exit from the stairwell, only enabling the Tristan up the top of the stairwell and Deimos to fight up close and from range.

One of the Stalkers fell through the stairs but managed to grab hold of the ledge, only for Tristan to slash his fingers, dropping him to the floor 70ft below (he survived on 2hp), while one of the other Stalkers made its way to Deimos after several rounds of double teaming Tristan.

As the 2hp Stalker made its way up the tower once more, through many failed attempts, successful attempts and break outs, Tristan constantly battled the other Stalker who eventually grappled the kid and threw both himself and the kid off of the tower, killing himself but Tristan remained safe with the Ring of Featherfall he had on.

Meanwhile, the 2hp Stalker made its way up and went for Deimos with the full HP stalker up the stairs, but standing in three spaces in a row, the three characters battled it out. The 2hp one attempted to dodge past his ally and Deimos, but was killed by a quick slash from the Tiefling who dropped his bow to slash, only to drop with the other remaining Stalker, though he successfully grabbed hold of the wall, while the Stalker plummeted to its death below.

Now, with their spells drained more than they felt comfortable with, the PC's made it up to D4 to sleep for the night, with the Psychopath and Tiefling keeping watch as the 28 year old Human Cleric of own ideals (but powered by Cayden) and 15 year old Half-Elf sleep for the night to regain their spells.

Tristan unboarded the door silently with a very high Disable Device check, but blocked it up again by wedging it, once the party decided to hold up.

So, because a day has passed, do I have the two guards and Iron go searching for them up the tower to offer eventual support, grabbing Deimos' bow on the way up, or do I just have the party of:

LG Half-Elf - Tristan: AC: 24, Level 5 Magus/2 Rogue (N's +1 Bastard Sword)
CG turned LG Human - Brik: AC: 27, Level 6 Cleric/2 Fighter (K's +1 Longsword and Shield)
N Tiefling - Deimos: AC: 21, Level 5 Rogue/2 Ranger (Sword and Shield, with Bow also)
NE (Veering on Chaotic) Human - Jackery: AC: 20, Level 6 Fighter (Sword and Shield)

....try and face off against X themselves, with death being 99.9% likely?

They have a wand of Shield with several charges, a protection from evil scroll, some +3 barkskin potions and some scrolls of false life (I think).

Originally, I thought it'd be problematic sleeping where they are, but they successfully blocked the door again, and X would most likely remain hidden in her lair, tricking them with her Major Image as they approach before catching them off guard to attack.

Anyway, having I there...he could borrow a guard's Bow and Arrow, while the Guard Captain and standard Guard fight alongside the party against the hideous monstrosity.

I'd just like opinions on how to go about this please, as you've been a great help so far. :D


Oh and for those interested, I bought some Super Sculpey Firm and made my GMPC, painting him in acrylic and giving him paper armour painted gold.

Brik Wahl

Brik Wahl 2

Brik Wahl 3

While my gf made Tristan, which I'll take a few more pics of, to show her finished version

Both were shaped by hand, detailed with the point of a pin, painted in Acrylic and drawn on in fine liner/painted on with the point of a pin for the fine details.


If they make their stealth roll, they may very well succeed in surprising X. However, she has no reason to stick around. Have her take all her belongings and leave. She has to know they're resting up. What purpose does fighting them up there serve her?


Hmm, I don't know, because it's her lair and she may be arrogant enough to feel like she can take care of any intruders with her Charm abilities etc?

She could slip away in the night, but would she really grab all of her belongings and head somewhere? If so, where? I haven't actually thought about that option. I just figured she'd stay there, waiting for them to appear so she could wipe them out or enslave them. I mean to her, I'm pretty sure the tower is a good base.

One of the PC's failed their stealth against her Perception check. Jackery.


I meant when they sneak up above. If they remain squirreled away in the clock tower long enough, she might wonder if they barricaded her up there thinking she couldn't get down. She could also leave, charm a bunch of people (perhaps including our elvish patsy and those guards) and send them against the PCs.


Hmm, that's pretty epic, and then heading off to her sister maybe? I'm not really sure where she'd go, but I guess more exploration would allow them to level up some more before facing her.

She failed to hear the door barricade being taken down, so I was thinking she might just figure they can't get to her, but jumping off of the tower sounds like a pretty cool idea, then instead she could send the Guards and I up to the party, then follow them up for a clock tower battle, but would she fit easily up the stairs, taking up 2x2 squares? I don't know how that would work, but she had to get up there in the first place right?

H form maybe?


She climbs the outside of the tower from what I understand. Alternatively, it's easy enough to just substitute one of her spells with Levitate. (And I suspect when my group goes after X, they'll not bother climbing the tower at all - the GMPC is an Air Specialist/Thief (with Levitate), and the cleric have the Travel Domain and the Fly spell. So I could see the group using several Levitates and be towed behind the Cleric... ^^;;


Haha, yea. None of us know about flying with Magic yet, so we just rely on our bipedal methods of transport. :p

Her AC isn't actually ridiculously high in the Anniversary Edition, and I think I'll play Protection from Evil as immunity from Charm Effects while it lasts, rather than +5 to saves like I think it gave.

My GMPC has the Ferocity and Healing domains, and with the equipment of the party, I think there's more than a glimmer of hope.

I'm now wondering if I should have her cast featherfall down to those guys, charm them and then follow them up to go after the party. The stairs are a bit of a mess, so most of the session would be the guards and I trying to climb them. X should be alright with her Acrobatics though!

I guess 10ft characters can traverse on 5ft wide walkways, but maybe with a penalty?


While under the effects of a Protection from Evil spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.

So it would prevent dominion. However, Charm spells aren't dominion spells. I did the deeds he did because he was evil and she used seduction along with charm spells on him. But if he was a good-aligned person, it's doubtful he'd have committed multiple murders for X.


Really? I purposely advised them to purchase a Protection from Evil Scroll (Communal) through I, as Old Drake (above) said it would negate Charm Person/Monster, as does the OGC Pathfinder page...or at least says what you quoted, so does that not mean she has one attempt, but cannot do it again, as long as the spell is in effect?

It lasts a minute for the party of 4, and they only have one.

As for I, that sounds about right. He's still responsible, even if he was being controlled mostly, but then with such a high amount of power, other Noble's it says would try and get his name cleared (from what I recall), so he would probably either be arrested temporarily or hold up on his deal and help the PC's, but not overly, just enough to give them extra advice every so often.

I don't think he'd really like helping anyone but himself.


Tangent101 wrote:

While under the effects of a Protection from Evil spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.

So it would prevent dominion. However, Charm spells aren't dominion spells. I did the deeds he did because he was evil and she used seduction along with charm spells on him. But if he was a good-aligned person, it's doubtful he'd have committed multiple murders for X.

Protection from Evil prevents charm.

There is even a FAQ that spells that out


Huh. I'd lifted the quote from the PRD for the Protection from Evil spell. It is ambiguous.

Though the FAQ only says this: The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")

Thus while it prevents commands and the like... does it stop the intense feeling of friendship? (Personally I think it does, and even with the ambiguous wording above I'd let it prevent the charm from going into effect until the spell itself wore off. Depending on if you're the sort who has spells last past the death of the caster, might make for some fun RP when the PFE wears off... but the Charm is in effect and they realize they killed their very good friend the snake lady. ;)


Charm person is specifically listed as not having an effect. Nothing ambiguous about it. They should have just formatted it point-form, because a huge block of text can be confusing. Really, the second effect of POE should be described in 2 paragraphs.

Taken from the PRD, relevant text bolded

protection from evil wrote:
Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person. This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.


It's still worth noting that, even if unprotected by the Protection from Evil scroll, the Charmed characters feel friendly towards Xanesha. Their feelings towards each other aren't changed.

Someone won't just kill another member of the party, unless they were already willing to do so on the request of a friend. You seem like you might have some characters who might just do that, but most of them seem Good aligned, and good-aligned people would be firmly unwilling to kill an established ally just because a trusted friend asked them to. Even Neutral people don't normally just drop their established alliances and attack them on the request of a good buddy.

Now, that doesn't prevent some fun uses of Charm. You might not be willing to kill your friend, but if your friend is attacking your good buddy Xanesha, you might be willing to disarm them, steal their spell component pouch, grab their holy symbol, grapple them, etc.

Basically, while Xanesha might kill somebody, it's unlikely that anyone but Jackery would be willing to kill other party members. That might not prevent their defeat, but it might reduce the death toll. Running away is better than dying.


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Here's an example of Charm Person at work: http://www.drunkduck.com/Life_and_Death/5435863/


Awesome!

Those sound like some pretty cool ideas. Interestingly, I was remembering Race abilities and it seems Tristan is the most likely to survive. Not because Brik is his protector/guardian (nearly...after the adoption papers come in), but because with a Protection from Evil Scroll active, being Half-Elf he can't be put to sleep due to Elven Immunities.

Still, with only a +5 in Use Magic Device, it's likely they won't be able to use the Scroll unless I rule that they can attempt to use it every round, as I think the rules state you can only try once every 24 hours or something. Unless I just made that up somehow?

Jackery got effected by I's last time and nearly killed Tristan, who was planning on arresting him, but after pretty much saying he had no control over his actions and felt compelled to kill the boy (the player asked me what to say/how to explain it as he didn't know how), Tristan let it slide, especially as Brik didn't seem to hold it against him overly.

I'm thinking if they go in with False Life, Shield of Faith/Shield, Divine Favour, Purge Invisibility (possibly), use their Potions of Barkskin and prepare themselves properly, they may stand a chance.

If Tristan gets a hit off, he's fairly broken, so could deal nearly 80 damage max (without a critical) from a powered up Shocking Grasp.

Brik has Bestow Curse prepared, while Tristan has a few Ray of Enfeeblements. Deimos can probably sit back with Precise Shot firing away with his +10 to hit, and Jackery...well, will get up in the things face and start swinging two Power Attacks at +11 and +6 for 1d10+12 damage (two attacks) a round.

Brik also has two attacks at +11 and +6, for 1d8+4 at 17-20x2, without Divine Favour, Bull's Strength and +3 damage from Ferocious Strike (when he uses it). He also has Die Hard, Endurance, Toughness, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Selective Channeling, Imprved Bull Rush and Greater Bull Rush for a +13 to Bull Rush without boosting himself with stats.

His saves are Fort: +9, Ref: +0, Will: +9, but with his Resistance cantrip, he'd have a 50/50 chance at saving against her abilities, so I think a few rounds of buffing is the way forwards, and as "I." said she lives up the top, I don't think it'd be considered meta-gaming if they buff up a floor below.

His healing spells are all empowered from his domain by 50% and every single one of his domain spells are CLW, CMW and CSW, with a couple of Lesser Restorations always prepared.

This was his loadout from The Misgivings, so I think he alone is a worthy opponent, but Tristan's damage output is outrageous, so we might be okay. Both Tristan and Deimos have levels of Rogue, so although they don't get two attacks a round (Tristan might get two sets of Spell Combat/Spellstrike with a Haste Spell), I think they still have a fighting chance.

I hope so at least.


Potion of Protection from Evil. :)


Butch A. wrote:

It's still worth noting that, even if unprotected by the Protection from Evil scroll, the Charmed characters feel friendly towards Xanesha. Their feelings towards each other aren't changed.

This is true unless the charmer does an opposed CHA check vs the charmed. If you have not seen X's CHA score... she can quite easily do this to almost anyone of my PC's and I have 20 point buy paladins and summoners in my group. It's actually quite brutal


That's how I. did it to Jackery last time...though Jackery as stated by Butch above, was an easy candidate for this, only really tagging along to "help" the party in honour of a fallen friend he respected.

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