Magus and Concentrating in Combat

[The Morphling]

So, aside from Combat Casting and a Trait to give +2 to concentration (sadly, neither will fit in my build without sacrificing something important), what can I do to help myself succeed at concentration checks as a Magus? It really sucks to be reliant on nailing someone with a shocking grasp but losing one of your precious spell slots as a level 1 or 2 character.

The Spell Combat class feature of Magi is cool - if I don't want to hit anyone that round. If I'm self-buffing adjacent to a pile of enemies and I don't mind my sword hitting nothing but air, I'll be fine. But for offensive spells (and swordplay), taking a big penalty to attack rolls for the round is brutal.

Any tips? I haven't found any other options for Concentration checks than the feat and the trait.

[Xaratherus]

What race are you playing? There's at least one race (Elf, I believe) that has an alternate racial trait that grants a bonus to concentration.

Other than that, your only real options are traits or feats (especially at low level), or to avoid the concentration checks entirely by not casting while in combat (i.e., round 1 [while not in melee] cast Shocking Grasp, hold charge; round 2, move into melee and attack; round 3, step out of melee, cast Shocking Grasp; repeat - the downside here is that you're losing your 'free' attack granted by Spellstrike).

[LazarX]

Take further minuses to hit for your melee attacks. That will add to your concentration roll.

Quite frankly I don't think -2 is that big a penalty. It's the standard penalty for Two Weapon Fighting, which is where Spell Combat draws much of it's mechanic from.

Quite frankly, when I leveled my magus, I simply didn't rely on spell combat that much for the first two levels. At first level, it was mainly cast shield before hand, and then wade in for standard melee and occasional arcane mark spam. At level 2 against metal armored foes, a shocking grasp spell strike does wonders.

Once you get to the mid-levels it isn't that much of a problem. Disclosure: I did take Combat Casting because I considered it THAT important.

When your build can't get you want you want, sometimes you have to take a second look at it.

[Xaratherus]

Another alternative would be to forego touch spells as your primary attack method; pick up some ranged attack spells, then do something like:

-Declare Spell Combat
-Attack with weapon
-Five-foot step away from enemy
-Cast ranged attack spell

This is a legal move, and basically the reverse of what I suggested above (i.e., start 5 feet away, cast Shocking Grasp, hold charge, step in, attack).

Chill Touch can also be a useful low-level spell, as you can cast it before moving into melee range and hold the charges (1 per level), then deliver a charge each time you attack.

[Majuba]

Xaratherus ninja'd my answer: prodigious use of 5' steps:

Spellcombat: Cast attack spell, 5' in, attack.

Spellcombat: attack, 5' out, buff or ranged spell.

[Name Violation]

remember you can attack DURING a move with a touch spell, and a magus replaces the touch attack with a melee attack

[Xaratherus]

Name Violation wrote:

remember you can attack DURING a move with a touch spell, and a magus replaces the touch attack with a melee attack

Could you clarify?

I'm reading this to mean "cast, move, touch, continue to move", which is not true by the rules.

You can cast, move, then touch, but once you've used your touch spell (or melee attack, if you're using Spellstrike), you cannot move further.

[The Morphling]

Hmm. I'm already familiar with those tricks, definitely planning to use them as much as possible. It's the issue of losing that second attack per round I'm worried about.

I've not just given my build a second look, I've been picking at it with a surgical scalpel. It's pretty fine-tuned for now (though admittedly a bit of a one trick pony with regards to +3 Caster Level for the purposes of Shocking Grasp).

I'll give it another look. I'd hate to lose something crucial like Weapon Finesse (some of those attacks have to HIT, after all).

Xaratherus wrote:

Name Violation wrote:

remember you can attack DURING a move with a touch spell, and a magus replaces the touch attack with a melee attack

Could you clarify?

I'm reading this to mean "cast, move, touch, continue to move", which is not true by the rules.

You can cast, move, then touch, but once you've used your touch spell (or melee attack, if you're using Spellstrike), you cannot move further.

This is correct. Once you make the attack, your movement is done.

[RainyDayNinja]

Out of curiosity, what's so important about these traits that won't let you make room for a +2 to concentration?

[Xaratherus]

Just a guess but it sounds like Morphling is probably stacking traits\feats to increase effective caster level on Shocking Grasp.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

If you are really that concerned with the concentration check and missing the second attack then change your weapon and use a whip (scorpion whip even).

This will let you melee attack at range, get all of your attacks AND since you aren't in melee range you don't need to make the concentration check at all.

If you don't want to use a whip then simply make sure the first spell you cast in battle is Warding Weapon. While this spell is active you don't need to make concentration checks at all while using spell combat.

Finally, if you are really just not interested in any of these options then take the weaponwand arcana and just use that until your concentration is higher.

[Kazaan]

Xaratherus wrote:

Name Violation wrote:

remember you can attack DURING a move with a touch spell, and a magus replaces the touch attack with a melee attack

Could you clarify?

I'm reading this to mean "cast, move, touch, continue to move", which is not true by the rules.

You can cast, move, then touch, but once you've used your touch spell (or melee attack, if you're using Spellstrike), you cannot move further.

I think he's saying that, since the free touch with casting the spell is a Free Action, it isn't subject to the normal situation of a Standard action effectively ending a Move action.

PRD wrote:

Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

According to that, by default, it should be permissible to do a "drive-by touch attack" by spending your Standard to cast a touch spell and then your Move to move and make the Free touch attack in the middle of your move (and, via Spellstrike, replace said free touch attack with a free melee attack). The only issue it comes up against is GM limitation on when/how to apply Free Actions.

[Name Violation]

Touch Spells in Combat

Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

hmm. i was wrong. Darn

[qutoes]

gloves of Elven kind as soon as you can get them. That +5 makes it easy.

[Jaatu Bronzescale]

The Morphling wrote:

but losing one of your precious spell slots as a level 1 or 2 character.

ny tips? I haven't found any other options for Concentration checks than the feat and the trait.

At level one or two? +4 for combat casting and +2 for a trait are all the options I found. It's better to cast then move or step into combat.

Fortunately, the DCs for casting defensively are fairly static.

lvl 1 with only 16 int(since that will get all six levels of spells), combat casting and the trait has +10 to concentrate. You are looking for 15's for cantrips, and 17s for lvl 1.

by the time you get level 2 spells, and advance to dc19, you're lvl 4, with +13 to concentrate, needing only a 6 to cast those.

at 7th level, you get lvl 3's at dc 21, but have +16 to concentrate, and at least my DM doesn't have it fail on a 1, so you're auto concentrating on cantrips and 1st level, and needing only a 5 to cast vampiric touch.

at 10th level, when you get 4th level spells at dc23, you've got +19 on casting defensively, and +21 defensively during spell combat.

I've been playing a magus with this setup, though I didn't take combat casting until lvl 5. I've picked up a headband for +2 int, so at lvl 10 i am autopassing spellcombat concentration checks for spells through lvl 4.

[Quandary]

Lunge also works for avoiding AoO threat.

[Seraph Stormborn]

Did everyone forget about the Spells Long Arm or Warding Weapon. Cast one of those spells before combat and you won't have to worry about Concentration checks.

[taks]

If done right, as noted by Jaatu, you'll rarely miss. In my experience, it's simply not a problem. In fact, if you take combat casting you'll want to retrain it at 8th.

[Gisher]

Seraph Stormborn wrote:

Did everyone forget about the Spells Long Arm or Warding Weapon. Cast one of those spells before combat and you won't have to worry about Concentration checks.

Long Arm didn't exist back when those people were posting.