Goblin Squad Member
|
I assume that the repair of gear will be by taking it to a PC crafter, who will require some basic raw materials to do the repair?
This might be good reason to bring onboard a friendly (and adventurous) armourer or leathersmith and give them a share of the expedition profits. They could accompany the party without necessarily getting stuck into the combats (except perhaps with missile fire), but would be able to perform running repairs. Thus, you would be able to carry on dungeoneering without having to stop because the Fighter's mail is now hanging in strips.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...Whether or not it's more profitable for the crafters to craft the items you buy or just grind NPCs is another matter...My understanding is that the 'grind NPCs' part is a no-go. Mobs won't drop items you would want to use.
Its more likely mobs will drop items only newer players will want to use. An encounter might give you 6 light wooden shields worth 10 gc each which you can sell or recycle for wood to craft something else - but you stopped using mundane light wooden shields in your second week of play.
Its worth noting that almost all low level loot (the equivalent of non magic/masterwork light wooden shields) sold in eve is actually bought up by players who bulk recycle it all.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Its more likely mobs will drop items only newer players will want to use.
"We don't intend for usable items to be dropped by anything as loot from the system. You get them by crafting them, buying them, or looting dead PCs.
I suspect we have to leave some room at the bottom of the quality pyramid for some loot drops just to help make sure low level/new PCs don't get too squeezed, but that stuff will not be meaningful to the in-game economy."
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Its more likely mobs will drop items only newer players will want to use."We don't intend for usable items to be dropped by anything as loot from the system. You get them by crafting them, buying them, or looting dead PCs.
I suspect we have to leave some room at the bottom of the quality pyramid for some loot drops just to help make sure low level/new PCs don't get too squeezed, but that stuff will not be meaningful to the in-game economy."
yea I really like the fact that for the most part everything in this game will be crafted. Thats awesome.
Perhaps low-level bandits outfitted with basic/shoddy stuff would be logical to help low-levels. Unless they let us run around wielding dogslicers xD
Additionally with the threading system, our starter gear may last us until we can replace it with something player made! Which would further support Ryan's statement that you won't get gear from mobs but rather from PC crafting.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
i suspect that you will still be grinding NPCs, only not in the sense that they will drop a +5 sword.
If you want some dragon scales for that new armor, well there is only one way to get those and thats killing dragons (or from other players who killed dragons).
So while we might not be farming NPCs for gold or a holy avenger, you will still have to farm some NPCs for raw materials.
At least i hope so. Should they be required for simple things, no, but i think the more powerful items should use them.
If something like that doesnt appeal to people, perhaps the use of rare materials can help with the crafting somehow, so its not required but nice to have.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...perhaps the use of rare materials can help with the crafting somehow...
We know that items will have the Quality level of their lowest component, so (elements below for example only, these are NOT real) a Quality 150 sword will need:
1) a Quality 150 blade
2) a Quality 150 hilt, and
3) a smith with Level 150 in Swordcraft
If, in the event, one only has a Quality 100 blade, then the final sword will be Quality 100. I don't recall whether we've yet heard anything about completely optional components that'll affect the final product, but I can see keywords, perhaps, being added by including a rare gem or such.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Hmmm, what's the PFO equivalent of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose"?
Easy, wearing only low tier, completely threaded gear that can not be looted if you fall in combat.
In EvE you don't have that option, but what some players do is just fly a ship fitted with gear that they don't care if they lose.
So, how do you compensate for having low level gear in PVP?
* Superior Numbers
* Superior Situational Awareness
* Superior Information about your target
* Superior Tactics: Before, During and After the combat
Will you have all of these, all of the time? Of course not, but these should be your goal.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Bluddwolf: I meant what was the saying rather than the strategy. I like JazzIvraz's answer: it's the sixth River Freedom "You have what you hold."
The problem with large numbers becomes divvying up the loot (at least as it applies in tabletop): oots. It remains to be seen how viable large group banditry is in PFO. I never tried it in EVE so I'm not sure how you guys shared the spoils. Was it more for the thrill or was it actually economically viable to be a bandit in a large group in EVE?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Banditry can be very viable if your bandit robs a caravan transport which can hold more then just the characters guarding it can hold?
I don't believe we've yet heard anything about caravans being other than several players carrying things; I expect wagons and pack-animals to be a mental construct in the MVP period. I'm of the impression that you'll just be offered the usual selection of the items carried by the players you defeat, with the rest destroyed if it's not claimed by the decedent before time runs out.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It will be interesting to see how wagons are implemented.
In tabletop the tendency is for DM's to say the wagon driver is fully occupied when it is moving and only passengers can fight unless the wagon is halted.
The passengers get a +1 height advantage in melee for being on the wagon, but may at the DMs discretion have to take a reflex save or some other check to avoid falling off if they are trying something like swinging a greatsword from on top of a pile of barrels.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
They have said this to you before, Valiant. So in a sense this is a me too. However, I was like you not too long ago. People were talking about things that did not make sense. Part of this is many posting here have histories with MMORG. And they have redefined words, e.g. Guild. IT is actually used two ways, sometime to mean loosely organized group of players playing together. But so does chartered company and so does ventures group. But there is also the in game use of guilds as being practitioners of a craft. But drop this discussion -- that is another thread.
Using the discussions here, I went back over the blog and back through hours of the webcasts (tend to ramble, but hang in there. It is now starting to come together.
From this thread (and scan some others), go back and read the blog again -- see if that does not help perspective. The special use of words will start to reveal their meanings.
Lam
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What I find the most appealing of all these ideas is as follows: I can be or become anything I want to be in the game.
So the only thing the game has to do is give the players the tools to facilitate their 'being who they wanna be'.So what would be a good list of what people would like to become in the game?
If you have an extensive list of that..or even devide them in catagories...then you can build the world around it to facilitate that.
So yeah, what are goals for people?
My ideas for my character are:
Becomming a trader. Not just a simple one, but a grand one! I would like to be the owner of a vast trading network, providing people what they need.
Why is this interesting? Because a character like that can make it fun for other characters in the game. I could be a quest-giver, so to speak.
I could hire people to get me ingredients, organise trading caravans, organise protection for them. Build/buy storagehouses and organise protection for it. Deal with the trading competition. Build a network of crafters and other traders, bringing people together. Hire assassins to take out that rogue who had the nerve to steal from me. Hire adventuring groups to get me that artifact my customer wants. Hire smugglers to get my goods to the people who need them while evading the customs/law in a city. Trade with criminal organisations in black market goods. Trade with empires to supply their armies with weapons and food, lumber exct.
If naval play comes to the game: organise transports over water and protecting them. Building ships and trading in them...in their construction and weapons...moving cargo over water, because it might be safer from regular robbers (and yet, piracy happens too!)All this is a very social character design...and its awesomely diverse, while it also allows for other people to become what they want...
Will this be possible?
This is a great post! I think you really hit the nail on the head.
To sum: To choose your own path and find that path links up with other paths in interesting ways. In fact the choice of trader is potentially one of the most powerful it seems; a role I'd find too boring personally, but one that taps into the economic engine of the game that connects all the various paths players make. I think this is the core of what Ryan Dancey said about PFO: Having an economic engine in contrast to a combat engine which the table-top version of Pathfinder is based on, to describe the difference in so many words.
I'm interested in banditry, but there is discussion as to how viable an economic role this will be: It will be very tight margins which is suggestive that perhaps either a lot of skill will be required or some means (escaping bounty-hunters and equally double-crossing n'er do gooders) of supplementing the role eg state/corporate-sponsored banditry, banditry on bandits etc. One reason this role appeals, is that it fits with being a side-character in other player's stories which would normally be mobs in other mmorpgs, as well as the fluctuation in where the bandit can find profitable work and how their actions will influence the economy of merchants and traders who'll have to hire guards and decide which routes/roads to take their logistical operations across the River Kingdoms, that smouldering tinder-box just waiting to go up in the flames of conflict.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Bluddwolf: I meant what was the saying rather than the strategy. I like JazzIvraz's answer: it's the sixth River Freedom "You have what you hold."
The problem with large numbers becomes divvying up the loot (at least as it applies in tabletop): oots. It remains to be seen how viable large group banditry is in PFO. I never tried it in EVE so I'm not sure how you guys shared the spoils. Was it more for the thrill or was it actually economically viable to be a bandit in a large group in EVE?
In Eve there never is that much loot. Its usually up to the Fleet Commander on how its done. Most of the time its just grab whatever, your cargo hold will fill fast.
Unless there is a nice prize... Happens sometimes, but once I made 2 billion ISK in loot from a transport kill. There were 4 of us and all but one made the same, the other guy just said "Take whatever, Im rich."
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What I find the most appealing of all these ideas is as follows: I can be or become anything I want to be in the game.
This is extremely important, and represents one of the three pillars of PFO, for me:
1. Open-ended Character Development.
2. Ability to adventure with anyone, regardless of "level".
3. Meaningful risk.
I was reminded again this weekend of why #1 is so important. My wife and some friends of ours were getting really frustrated with the latest bug patch (as in patch that seems intended to introduce bugs) in Vanguard, so we rolled some characters on Aion. I decided to try a Sorcerer, but apparently that's also the Crowd Control class, which isn't really my thing.
Oh well... *checks his watch* ... PFO will be ready soon :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Should I now start playing EVE online for a year untill PFO comes out...?
I wouldn't recommend it.
Eve is dystopian, and the devs take a purposefully hands off approach to managing the community, resulting in significant griefing.
The main thing I think people are trying to convey by comparison to Eve is the Skill-based advancement system. If you're having a hard time wrapping your head around that, it might be worthwhile to try Eve for free and just log in and look at the skill tree and train a few skills.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You might like to poke around the EVElopedia a bit; no one'll shoot at you there.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Bluddwolf: I meant what was the saying rather than the strategy. I like JazzIvraz's answer: it's the sixth River Freedom "You have what you hold."
The problem with large numbers becomes divvying up the loot (at least as it applies in tabletop): oots. It remains to be seen how viable large group banditry is in PFO. I never tried it in EVE so I'm not sure how you guys shared the spoils. Was it more for the thrill or was it actually economically viable to be a bandit in a large group in EVE?
In Eve there never is that much loot. Its usually up to the Fleet Commander on how its done. Most of the time its just grab whatever, your cargo hold will fill fast.
Unless there is a nice prize... Happens sometimes, but once I made 2 billion ISK in loot from a transport kill. There were 4 of us and all but one made the same, the other guy just said "Take whatever, Im rich."
Usually, the loot is sweet, sweet tears, the unofficial second currency of EVE. Some bandits do lurk along trade routes and attack freight haulers, but many just attack people to see them whine about it in chat or, better yet, send tearful in-game messages to their attackers.
Another great placer to learn about EVE Online, in or out of the game, is EVE University. Their wiki is very helpful.