Shoanti Thunder and Fang Build Help

[ShadowyFox]

So I am needing advice for a Rise of the Crimson Throne game. I see him as learning about his heritage over the course of the game. He's gonna be use of the Thunder & Fang feat. So when it comes to barbarian, I was thinking invulnerable rager/urban barbarian. But what I'm trying to decide on is whether he should dip into fighter.

Now, if I do dip into fighter, should I do regular fighter for a couple of levels and then switch to barbarian, or delay the gaining of the T&F by a bit and go Unbreakable archetype of fighter?

Also, I get 3 traits, one of which must be campaign.

[Blueluck]

A ranger can be very good at Thunder and Fang. Two-Weapon Fighting feats require a very high DEX, which would normally detract from your STR and/or CON. A Ranger with the Two-Weapon fighting style can take TWF feats without meeting prerequisites!

[Blueluck]

Personally, I'd build:

• Single class Barbarian
  
• Single class Ranger
  
• Single class Fighter
  
• Ranger 2, Barbarian for the rest

[ShadowyFox]

Looking at it, probably single class barbarian would be the way to go, since I'm wanting to take the main focus of the enemies. What rage powers would you suggest to go with this one?

Any other feats? And what would you suggest for the traits?

[Argus The Slayer]

There are quite a few threads about this topis already: use search to find more info about more choices.

Straight Barbarian:

1) Weapon Focus: Earth Breaker; Weapon Focus: Klar
2) Reckless Abandon
3) TWF
4) Lesser Beast Totem
5) Thunder and Fang
6) Beast Totem
7) Power Attack
8) Unexpected Strike
9) Improved TWF
10) Greater Beast Totem
11) Iron Will
12) Come and Get Me

Substitute Superstition for Unexpected Strike if you like the flavor and can handle the chance of those in-battle heals not landing!

[soupturtle]

If you want to go barbarian all the way, it will take a while before you get all the feats you want together. A long while, actually. You need weapon focus twice, thunder and fang and TWF. Then you really need power attack, and since it's the only thing that makes TWF any good, you also really want two weapon rend, which has two more feats as prerequisites. That's 8 feats, so even as a human, you cannot get all of them until level 13 (and you cannot combine TWF, thunder and fang and power attack, which are the bare basics, until level 7).

So having said that, I'd either go ranger all the way, or do some combination of fighter, ranger and/or barbarian. Ranger with one level of barbarian would work pretty well, as would barbarian with two levels of either fighter or ranger.

Although to be honest, the straight barbarian is very powerful if you take the feats in a slightly different order. If you just ignore TWF for the first few levels, but start of with power attack and weapon focus earthbreaker, you will do excellent damage from the start using your earthbreaker with two hands. Then you can switch to two-weapon fighting once you have a few more feats.

[Argus The Slayer]

Power attack is not as helpful, or as "required" in a TWF build as it is in a two-handed weapon build: -1 attack for +2 damage just isn't as viable as -1 for +3 (as it is for a weapon wielded in two hands).

IMO Barbarian Rage works as a free and viable alternative to Power Attack for the first 4-5 levels, so I wouldn't be too concerned with not having Power Attack at low levels, but you definitely want it by level 8 - and you definitely want Reckless Abandon to offset the penalty to attack.

[ezrider23]

It really depends on what you want. All of the variations work but in different ways. If you are just looking to get Thunder and Fang up and running as fast as possible so you can start to build your character i feel a 2 level start-up in fighter is the best avenue.

Human Fighter for 2 levels gets you 4 feats and all of your pre-reqs out of the way.
H. Two-Weapon Fight
1. Weapon Focus:Earthbreaker
F. Weapon Focus: Klar
F2. Thunder and Fang

Go Barb or Ranger From here on out and focus on that classes goodies. Ranger can make you much better at 2-weapon fighting with your own fighting friend or Barbarian and all the goodies they can bring. Each class in and of themselves fit thematically with the Shoanti so it really boils down to preference.

Here is something i started and was thinking of going Ranger from level 3 till the end of his life. He would be for a RotRL campaign so i will more than likely choose a trait from that setting but the ones i have are ok placeholders. I'm not too buffed when it comes to PF char-op, so i could probably use some work in that department.

Spoiler:

Thundar the Hammerfang
Male Human (Shoanti) Fighter (Two-Weapon Fighter) 2
CN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +3
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +1 shield, +2 Dex)
hp 20 (2d10+4)
Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +2 (+1 vs. fear)
Defensive Abilities bravery +1
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Earth breaker +5 (2d6+4/x3) and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +6 (1d3+4/x2) and
. . Javelin +2 (1d6+4/x2) and
. . Klar +5 (1d6+2/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +6 (1d3+4/x2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +2; CMB +6; CMD 18
Feats Thunder and Fang, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Earth breaker), Weapon Focus (Klar)
Traits Auspicious Tattoo (Shoanti), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -3 (-7 jump), Climb +3, Escape Artist -3, Fly -3, Intimidate +2, Perception +3, Ride -3, Stealth -3, Survival +6, Swim +4
Languages Common, Shoanti
Other Gear Scale mail, Earth breaker, Javelin (4), Klar, Pathfinder's kit, 35 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Javelin - 0/4
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bravery +1 (Ex) +1 to Will save vs. Fear
Thunder and Fang You have mastered the ancient Shoanti Thunder and Fang fighting style, allowing you to fight with increased effectiveness when wielding an earth breaker and klar.

Prerequisites: Str 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (earth breaker), Wea

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I think i chose the 2-weapon archetype for my fighter but might change that to a straight fighter unless i stayed a straight fighter. I like some of the defensive features of that archetype. It also gives us 2-weapon fighting for free and we going to take that with our bonus feat so..

EDIT- I misspoke, you do not get 2-weapon fighting for free. Sorry.

[Argus The Slayer]

If you are going to go with a Ranger-based Thunder and Fang build, don't shortchange your character by dipping into Fighter: pure Ranger (Human) gets Thunder and Fang at level three - and lands you Shield Master at level 6!

1) Weapon Focus: Earth Breaker; Weapon Focus: Klar
2) TWF
3) Thunder and Fang
4) Animal Companion
5) Power Attack
6) Shield Master
7) Improved TWF
9) Boon Companion
10) Bashing Finish
11) Greater TWF

My problem with the Ranger build (or the fighter/ranger) is the lack of damage when compared to a Barbarian build -- unless you know what enemies you are most likely to face, so that you get to use Favored Enemy frequently enough to offset the damage problem.

Power attack is kind of a trap for the TWF Ranger, too: unless you are attacking your a favored enemy you are pretty likely to miss with that PA penalty. But against with your favored enemy bonuses, PA will help pile on the damage.

My advice would be to go straight Barbarian or look at the Viking Fighter Archetype.

[Umbranus]

I was thinking about a T&F build myself and I think the viking fighter archetype is nice for doing it.
With the rage it has some barbarian fluff and it gives you bonuses for using a shield which is something you want to do.

Sure you have to refluff it a little but they could have called the archetype shoanti tribal warrior instead as well.

[Borris Livestrom]

im running
Human fighter2/paladin18

its pritty heavy on stats though and skilpoint poor!

but I got thunder and fang at lvl 2 powerattack at lvl 3

[soupturtle]

I like the viking archetype idea. Nice find!

[ezrider23]

Yeah, i missed that when i was going through the archetypes. I like that one. It's a shame fighters mostly suck for skills and skill points.

[BlingerBunny]

This viking build idea is great! I really want to build it now.