Sarkoris Nova


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Grand Lodge

Sarkoris sounds pretty cool.
But it's dead.
The Worldwound can't really be held in check by those silly little rocks placed every 100 miles.
And Mendev is a den of Rogues, Dilettantes & corrupted Paladins enjoying their lives as Anti-Paladins.

Hows about some of those Empyreal Lords recently published in Chronicle of the Righteous open up a permanent Gate to Celestia just southwest of the Worldwound with some of their mortal followers and name it Sarkoris Nova?

You know, since Iomedae and Sarenrae don't seem to care enough to do it!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If Iomedae and/or Sarenrae would intervene directly on Golarion, the next thing you would see would be Asmodeus, Lamashtu and Urgathoa doing the same. Holocaust, genocide, apocalypse, ragnarok, end of the setting.

A smaller event of the same variety would trigger if some bunch of Empyreal Lords would decide to go in directly. In such event, apart from Worldwound becoming instantly Deskari's primary point of focus, the whole situation would bump up from "some thing Deskari is doing on the side somewhere" to "hey free celestial hunting season, let's put aside our CE squibbles for a moment and have at them" from perspective of all other Demon Lords. So suddenly you would have, instead of one Demon Lord, a legion pouring their resources together and guess what? Abyss is infinite, the Good aligned planes ain't.

It's all about escalation.


So why didn't what you describe happen when the worldwound was created?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Are you talking to me, Binocularist?


Yes, bag.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For starters, we know little about the creation of Worldwound. Was it a random, spontaenous event? Was it part of Deskari's plan (hint: demons and plans seldom mix)?

Hole in ground opens, demons pour out. Some time later, Deskari finds out and establishes his foothold. Other DL's shrug, as they consider it Just Another Demonic Plot in the Universe.

Sadly, it's all a class B problem for humanity, which just lost their Jesus equivalent. Not many Elminsters ready and willing to port there and open a gate just because Salvatore and Greenwood think it's a great plot device, sadly. Also, contrast the amount of in-your-face-fiend Empyreal Lords (errr...Raggy, who's more a devil person, and Videlis, who is all over the place) to eat-your-head count of Demon Lords (vast majority of a potentially infinite number).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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There's more to the Worldwound and the reasons why the demons haven't stormed out of it than a "bunch of silly little rocks."

The Worldwound book coming out soon, as well as the Wrath of the Righteous AP, explores this.

One big issue that a lot of the crusaders don't realize is:

Spoiler:
The demons WANT the crusaders to tear themselves apart. They're a lot sneakier and more manipulative than folks think. It's popular to say "Chaotic = crazy, while Lawful = devious," but that's not true. Demons can be just as devious as devils, and in some ways are even MORE devious since they've managed to make folks think that they're forces of pure chaos. They're not—that's the proteans, if it's anyone. Demons are chaos organized by pure evil.

A hundred years is a blink of the eye to a demon, but forcing entire nations and religions to endure a century of stressful war while their own crusaders rot from within with corruption and moral decay is a much more delicious victory than simplly wrecking buildings and killing mortals. It's like aging wine before you drink it. And also... when you DO finally strike, and your enemy has had 100 or so years to fester and grow desperate and let sin of all sort spread through their souls, when they die, there'll be a LOT more of them going to the Abyss to fuel more demons than if you'd just swarmed out and attacked and killed them all at the start.


If I recall correctly, they talk more about what happened in Sarkoris in Lost Kingdoms, and it basically shows that it was mortals that kinda caused the Worldwound.


Odraude wrote:
If I recall correctly, they talk more about what happened in Sarkoris in Lost Kingdoms, and it basically shows that it was mortals that kinda caused the Worldwound.

Something I REALLY hope they don't retcon.

I enjoyed the flavor of that article immensely.

Grand Lodge

The WorldWound book is in my Shopping Cart -- I'll get it in January with my 15% + 10% discount, my big annual Holiday order.

But with Deskari (son of Pazuzu) and a permanent Gate to the Abyss on the Prime Material there's no reason Iomedae or Ragathiel couldn't do something similar. Not to try to overthrow the world as is, just to keep the Demons contained in the WorldWound.

And Asmodeus would NOT stop the good Powers from fighting Demons!


A lot of it is basically to leave mortals to their own devices. The demons weren't the one that opened the Worldwound. It was mortals, albeit with some prodding from demons, that did it. And it's mortals, with some prodding from the gods, that crusade against it. It's how we have conflict for the PCs to resolve.

Basically, if the gods step in to fix everything, then why have the PCs do anything ever? There'd be no reason to adventure.

Grand Lodge

Yes, we can't have NPCs doing the work of PCs.

But I don't know that a small town run by an avatar of Ragathiel, for example, close to the WorldWound necessarily does that.

I guess if anything a Sarkoris Nova takes away from the design purpose of Mendev.

I just like "Sarkoris" and wish it weren't dead and think that the Celestials could respond to the Worldwound in-kind without overthrowing the design balance of the setting. The Abyssal WorldWound, after all, doesn't destroy the setting (nor does Treerazor in Kyonin).


W E Ray wrote:


I just like "Sarkoris" and wish it weren't dead and think that the Celestials could respond to the Worldwound in-kind without overthrowing the design balance of the setting. The Abyssal WorldWound, after all, doesn't destroy the setting (nor does Treerazor in Kyonin).

Which is exactly why my character for the AP is going to be a Sarkorin refuge (OK....descendant of) who is hoping to re-establish their clan holding :)

Dark Archive

W E Ray wrote:
I just like "Sarkoris" and wish it weren't dead and think that the Celestials could respond to the Worldwound in-kind without overthrowing the design balance of the setting.

I feel the same way about the Tekritanin League and their constructs, the Shory and their flying cities and Lirgen and it's Saoc Brethren. There are always going to be awesome cultures or societies in the past, like Greyhawk's Suel and Baklunish empires, that we don't get to play with as much in the present day setting.

We kind of need them to provide the 'dungeons' and ancient ruins to delve in (and for monsters and dragons to nest in).

I suspect the number one 'in-story' reason for the celestial realms to be unable to open big honking portals and take the fight to Golarion would be that, unlike the unnaturally fecund Abyss, the celestial planes aren't crawling with nearly limitless numbers of angels, archons and azata. If a celestial is summoned to the planes by the mortal defenders, and killed in battle, that's a setback, and little more. If a celestial comes through a gateway and is 'called,' and slain, that's an angel destroyed forever, and the demons seem to vastly outnumber them.

Out of game, the reason is 'meta,' in that it's up to the PC heroes to save this particular day, and not the Golarion equivalent of the Green Lantern Corps to fly down on angel wings and smite the hell out of everything while the PCs stand around holding pom-poms and watching NPCs do all the cool stuff.

But in-game rationales, such as there just being a bajillion demons (and who knows how many more 'on tap' in the Abyss) and only a small number of angels / archons / etc. whose power may very well be tied up in the 'wardstones' holding the expansion of the Worldwound at bay.

Given the connections between Empyreals and large scale monuments (particularly in Magnimar, and even more particularly with the Empyreal Lord Soralyon), perhaps each of these massive wardstones is 'occupied' by a herald or avatar or servitor of the empyreals and goodly gods, and that's yet another reason that the angels aren't just showing up in force, they've already committed a number of their most powerful thrones and dominions, powers and principalties and whatnot to stopping the apocalypse in its tracks by sealing off the Worldwound and limiting the demons ability to move past their celestial 'no-fly zone.'

Shadow Lodge

Given the poor record of wardstones and wardstone-like defenses (Wrath of the Righteous and Realm of the Fellnight Queen both open with such wards being breached), I kindof hope that's not the case. Though actually, the crusade and the wardstones might not even be necessary; the Worldwound-lookalike on Golarion's moon isn't opposed by either, and it seems to have natural boundaries that don't encompass the whole moon.


I'm not sure if the Moonscar is an actual standing rift, or just a permanently transplanted chunk of the Abyss with no portals back.

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