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Optimization advice for a 10 point buy / low wealth game p6 campaign?


Advice

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I'm going to be playing in a low wealth/10 point buy/p6 campaign (P6 is the E6 of Pathfinder, basically you stop leveling at level 6 and every 5000XP get a new feat). Our characters will start at level 6 with 800 gold pieces+average starting wealth each. The books allowed are the core rulebooks, APG, ARG, UC, and UM. The DM has told me that all spellcasters (besides divine ones) are shunned and feared in the campaign world, (crafting magical armor/weapons/etc is not shunned though) and its pretty much illegal in most areas to be a spellcaster, although we can still play as spellcasters and I believe one of my fellow players is going to play a sorcerer (Not sure about the others, there are 4 of us not counting the GM).

I'm just looking for general optimization advice for this campaign and interesting ideas. I'm also interested about ''cheese'' too, although I'm probably not going to use ''cheese'' (I don't want to be doing 1000 damage a round, although it'll still be interesting to read about it. :P) Thanks so much in advance!


All signs point to your DM not wanting you to optimize. If that's not the case, I'd suggest a divine caster of your choice.

Summoned monsters are always as effective no matter the point buy, so be a Druid or a Cleric with Sacred Summons if you want to make the best of the setting. With Augmented Summoning, these critters will have higher stats than the party.

Shadow Lodge

Play a druid with a pet that advances at 4th level. Under those conditions the animal companions should rip most characters apart.


Rangers also do well at level 6, as that's the level where they get their second no-prerequisites bonus feat. Both an archery ranger and a switch hitter ranger could probably do really well in this campaign. And they get an animal companion as well.

Andoran

Human Barbarian, level 6

HP 60ish
DR 3/- (6/- against nonlethal)

Archetype: Invulnerable Rager

STR 21 (Starting 18, Human +2, 1 at level 4)
DEX 10
CON 12
WIS 8
INT 7
CHA 7

SAVES: 6 FORT 2 REF 3 WILL, 5 RAGING (plus for Superstition and Rage)

RAGE POWERS:

Superstition
Powerful Blow
Quick Reflexes

FEATS:

Power Attack (Human feat)
Weapon Focus (1)
Improved Initiative (3)
Toughness (5)

FEATURES:

Rage
Extreme Endurance
Fast Movement
Invulnerability (Ex)

Dumping your mental stats, you get an extra 10 points to play with, totalling 20. Grab 2 CON and max strength. Throw on a +1 Greatsword.

You are talking 2d6 + 10 STR + 6 Power attack + Rage power bonus damage. Throw in a second attack for BAB and AOO based on rage powers. You're a damage power house with high DR and decent armor class.

DM will likely throw a fit since he's trying to stop min-maxing. Honestly if he's that anal, just find a new group.

Shadow Lodge

I actually like these kinds of level-restricted campaigns, as they tend to be more RP-driven rather than power-gamer XP/loot-fests ("Go play your computer if that's all you want!").

Since it's clear that your GM is soft-shoeing it, I recommend avoiding DPR builds in favor of lighter-side skill-monkeys. E.g., make a halfling rogue or bard.

Pre-racial stat array: 15,13,12,12,10,07

halfling rogue(switch DEX and CHA for bard)
STR-10(08)
DEX+15(17) ...18 at 4th
CON:12
INT:13 (13 for Combat Expertise)
WIS:07
CHA+12(14)

Traits:River Rat, Armor Expert

Andoran

soupturtle wrote:
Rangers also do well at level 6, as that's the level where they get their second no-prerequisites bonus feat. Both an archery ranger and a switch hitter ranger could probably do really well in this campaign. And they get an animal companion as well.

This. A Human archery ranger with Boon Companion, a quick advancing animal companion, and some focus will give you a solid character without seeming overly broken, something like this:

Str 14
Dex 18
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 7

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Multishot, Boon Companion, Endurance,

Saves:

Fort +5, Ref +9, Will +2,

Chain Shirt, Masterwork Longbow, and some leather or better barding for your animal companion. With Gravity Bow and Deadly Aim for +4 you're potentially dealing 2d6+7 four times a turn.

Grab Iron Will as soon as you can arrange it, then possibly Weapon Focus. Have fun being all the combat power your group really needs(since you cover ranged while your, say, bear, boar, ape, or leopard handles melee).

Maybe drop Int to 8 for Con 12 if you really wanna optimize, though I never would.

If you get traits, Indomitable Faith and Reactionary (or something granting a Class skill you feel is lacking) are solid.


Yeah, ranger is one of the best bets as a martial class. As there are Rage Powers that'll never be unlocked for Barbarians. The Fighters training is capped and the other big thing for them is their preponderance of feats - which is now available to all.

Skilled classes are very viable, as extra feats will make them able to hold their own in combat and get access to more rogue talents. Plus it makes the GM feel as if you are not all about DPR/high-AC combat.

Divine casters are fun and as said Summons are amazing. An Oracle could be interesting.

But of course the main thing is to consider why the GM has made these rules and adhere to at least some of the spirit of them. Though from your post it seems like the OP is a good bloke/lass.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Druid level 6 Human swapping out Bonus feat for Eye for Talent.
Badger Animal Companion

Feats of Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning and Fast learner. With your first free feast take toughness.

10 point buy without dumping stats....
Str 10
Dex 10
Con 14+2 Human bonus for 16.
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 10

Lantern Lodge

Alchemist Barbarian is what i suggest for the massive burst damage and utility of Extracts.

Shadow Lodge

Deadmanwalking wrote:
This. A Human archery ranger with Boon Companion, a quick advancing animal companion, and some focus will give you a solid character without seeming overly broken
If I were the GM of a low-power 10pt game with a level 6 cap, I would take a dim view of anybody trying to smuggle in four or five attacks per round (PC + 3 naturals critter). You better ask first.
Psion-Psycho wrote:
Alchemist Barbarian is what i suggest for the massive burst damage and utility of Extracts.

See above.


Synthesist Summoner! You'll probably annoy the crap out of the GM since you'll be negating the purpose of the low point buy though =P

Seriously, I'd try to avoid any builds that are overly MAD. Barbarian would be a good option. Ranger is a great option if you want to fight with a Bow. Gunslinger wouldn't be a bad option either.


Hyler wrote:

I'm going to be playing in a low wealth/10 point buy/p6 campaign (P6 is the E6 of Pathfinder, basically you stop leveling at level 6 and every 5000XP get a new feat). Our characters will start at level 6 with 800 gold pieces+average starting wealth each. The books allowed are the core rulebooks, APG, ARG, UC, and UM. The DM has told me that all spellcasters (besides divine ones) are shunned and feared in the campaign world, (crafting magical armor/weapons/etc is not shunned though) and its pretty much illegal in most areas to be a spellcaster, although we can still play as spellcasters and I believe one of my fellow players is going to play a sorcerer (Not sure about the others, there are 4 of us not counting the GM).

I'm just looking for general optimization advice for this campaign and interesting ideas. I'm also interested about ''cheese'' too, although I'm probably not going to use ''cheese'' (I don't want to be doing 1000 damage a round, although it'll still be interesting to read about it. :P) Thanks so much in advance!

Consider 2 levels of Fighter and 4 levels of Witch - Slumber, Misfortune and Cackle Hexes - they work in full plate if you want them to and you never run out of them. Wield a two handed Scythe with some good Fighter feats and have access to useful 1st and 2nd level spells as well as a Familiar.

Andoran

What about a halfling fighter?
No, that's a typo. No, I haven't gone quite out of my mind.
You could qualify for the Dervish Dance feat at 2nd level, so you use DEX instead of STR for damage. Your size gives you +1 to hit and +1 to AC. You can dump CHA without serious penalty. Plus you get +1 to all saving throws.

Grand Lodge

Sound Striker Bard could be a good class for this, as you get weird words at level 6.

Shadow Lodge

Theconiel wrote:

What about a halfling fighter?

No, that's a typo. No, I haven't gone quite out of my mind.
You could qualify for the Dervish Dance feat at 2nd level, so you use DEX instead of STR for damage. Your size gives you +1 to hit and +1 to AC. You can dump CHA without serious penalty. Plus you get +1 to all saving throws.

If you dump CHA in a halfling, you're not utilizing the race well.

-- Why not make him a halfling paladin with a good charisma, and Smite the crap out of things? (Remember that CHA bonus also applies to AC and CMD versus smite-buddy.)

Hmm.... 15,13,12,12,10,07 transforms easily into 15,14,12,10,10,07....

STR-14(12)
DEX+10(12)
CON:12
INT:10
WIS:07
CHA+15(17>18@4th)

Racial archetype: Outrider
Traits: Birthmark, Dangerously Curious

Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by-attack, Quick Draw (Spirited Charge will be the next one, XP-bought).

Skillpoints: 6 ranks Ride, 1 rank apiece in Handle Animal, Climb, Swim, Diplomacy, Use Magic Device, Knowledge Nobility

Equipment: banded armor, Quickdraw Shield, bardiche, lance, longsword, shortsword, dagger, composite longbow, quiver

Paladin Mount: badger (advanced), with studded leather barding, military saddle, saddlebags


Use eldritch heritage sylvan to get an another animal companion (be a druid, Saurian shaman), and use boon companion to bring it up. In a low level game, a pair of allosaurus will hurt. A lot.


Paladin. Make all your stats barely above average, but INT. Go human for more skills. Drop WIS and take Iron Will for compensation.

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 7
WIS 9
CHA 15

Didn't want to drop WIS too much. Very survivable, had a point left over to bring it to 9. Can increase CHA at 4, depending on how much combat matters and Will saves matter. Lay on hands for living, smite for damage, face skills and abilities, RP hooks for the DM, and a bastion of pure good. The best class in the game, and it shines even brighter in a low point-buy. Hate the low INT, but that's me.

Shadow Lodge

If he's a paladin, he won't need Iron Will even with a 7 WIS (he'll still have a higher will save than almost anyone else after Divine Grace kicks in, and the Birthmark trait covers most of Iron Will's bases anyway, and what it doesn't cover -- sleep and fear -- are unnecessary in a 6th-level paladin, especially if he's also a halfling).


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Dawnflower Dervish with Arcane Strike.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Breaker Barbarian with an Adamantine Durable Arrow.

Shadow Lodge

Quote:
Breaker Barbarian with an Adamantine Durable Arrow.

Not affordable on 800gp....

* * *

If you really want to be a wise-ass punk who can't be caught....

Gnome
STR-12(10)
DEX:12
CON+12(14)
INT:12
WIS:10
CHA+12(14)

Alternative Racial Traits: Eternal Hope, Magical Linguist
Traits: Reactionary (INIT+2), Sprint (gnome:move+5)

(To the OP: your stingy, skeptical DM will like this character sheet, as it doesn't appear overpowered in any way whatsoever despite squeezing +5 in total bonuses out of a measly 10pts.)

01 barba1 [move=35], Breadth of Experience

...you have power, hitpoints, good saves, and can roll any Knowledge check.

02 ninja1 SA+1d6
03 ninja2 [Ki pool], Bewildering Koan

...Most fun feat ever in a home game

04 ninja3 SA+2d6, STR>12
05 figh1 Extra Rage, Raging Vitality
06 barb2 [reckless abandon][uncanny dodge]

Equipment: get a wand of Longstrider and start UMD'ing it OoC.

(The halfling paladin on a badger is more powerful and resilient; this build is a skill monkey and situational striker.)

Andoran

Sir Thugsalot wrote:
If I were the GM of a low-power 10pt game with a level 6 cap, I would take a dim view of anybody trying to smuggle in four or five attacks per round (PC + 3 naturals critter). You better ask first

If a bog-standard Archery Ranger (which that is) is too much, so's any really optimized build (making the whole question silly). Unless he specifically prohibits animal companions, anyway.

Shadow Lodge

He probably should: at 10pt buy, the side-kicks are better than the PCs.


With a 6 level cap a divine caster will have something to do at all levels, an oracle being slightly more SAD than a cleric. It depends also though on what the rest of the party are. You could build a decent fighter without dump stats just by pushing Strength (16) and Con (14).

Andoran

Sir Thugsalot wrote:
He probably should: at 10pt buy, the side-kicks are better than the PCs.

Yeah, that's probably true.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A 10 point e6 game with no arcane casters? May as well play a commoner - that's probably more in line with what he wants anyhow.


I'd be tempted to play a Magus in this campaign - you could pass as a fighter most of the time except when you really need that magical backup.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The optimal choice would be to play another game, one where the DM can handle PC’s that can get around his control issues.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Don't get why people are down on the campaign. If the players don't want to play, they don't have to. If they do want to play, who are we to say whether the concept is good or bad?

"People with natural gifts, but no extraordinary talent take up sword and (in secret) spell to carve out their own path of glory". Sounds like the game I want to play, actually.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So you guys are saying that a game can't be made fun when people aren't super powerful using the pathfinder rule set?

I assume the original poster wants to play in this game and isn't being forced to with a gun to his head. Personally I read the original post as not a 'hard nosed GM with control issues' but rather a GM who wants to try something different and lower powered.

To the original poster - the cheesiest thing you could do (which was mentioned) is make a synthesist summoner who dumps all physical stats.


TheRedArmy wrote:

Paladin. Make all your stats barely above average, but INT. Go human for more skills. Drop WIS and take Iron Will for compensation.

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 7
WIS 9
CHA 15

Didn't want to drop WIS too much. Very survivable, had a point left over to bring it to 9. Can increase CHA at 4, depending on how much combat matters and Will saves matter. Lay on hands for living, smite for damage, face skills and abilities, RP hooks for the DM, and a bastion of pure good. The best class in the game, and it shines even brighter in a low point-buy. Hate the low INT, but that's me.

As a GM who loves running games like this, I love GMing for paladins.

Part of the fun is that the paladin becomes one of the only people who can actually hit any of the worst monsters via his smite evil ability. It hits the theme straight on.

Lantern Lodge

If the Ifrit race is allowed then do that and make sure to grab there Wildfire Hear Alternate Racial Trait. Classes would be 1 level of oracle with the Legalistic curse and Lore mystery to get access to the Sidestep Secret Revelation, 3 levels of paladin for there Divine Grace and immunities to fear and diseases, and finally 1 level of Sorcerer with the Arcane Bloodline for a Greensting Scorpion familiar. Feats would be Improved Initiative, Noble Scion: Scion of War, and Deepsight. The above combination will allow u to use ur Cha instead of Dex for ac, ref saves, and initiative as well as adding Cha to all ur saves. Ur initiative btw will be a base 12 + cha so u can always go 1st. Stats i recommend for this build, including racial modifiers, would be Str: 14, Dex: 09, Con: 11, Int: 08, Wis: 08, Cha: 18 also place ur +1 for leveling into con to bump that to 12. Gear to get would be a Chain Shirt, Heavy Steel Shield, a 1 handed Bludgeoning weapon, and a 1 handed Slashing weapon. At level 6 u will have a 20 ac, 14 touch, 16 flat-footed, 8 fort, 9 ref, 10 will, 5 to hit, and 16 initiative.


TheRedArmy wrote:
Don't get why people are down on the campaign. If the players don't want to play, they don't have to. If they do want to play, who are we to say whether the concept is good or bad?

Yep, my GM isn't forcing me at gunpoint to play this game. My group I'm in just wants to try a different style. I know the 10 point buy/low wealth/p6 changes might affect the balance, but I'll try this game anyways. If it doesn't work out we'll just go back to playing our old game so all should be good even in the worst case scenario.

@DrDeth and some other people who assumed bad things about my GM: My GM isn't a control freak and/or ''anal''. We simply want to play a different style of game that we usually don't do.

Anyways, thanks everyone! (Even the people who assumed the worst, it is nice for me to get new perspectives on things even if I don't agree with those perspectives, although I'd prefer it if you people didn't assume the worst).

For those wondering, I've decided to play as a magus (sub optimal for combat), my party members are playing a ranger (heavily using ideas from this thread), a barbarian, and an Oracle. Again, thank you all for your help!


Best of luck, Hyler. Take it easy.


Enjoy. And let us know the positives from the experience, too many threads assume uber-characters are the only fun to be had.


Hawktitan wrote:

So you guys are saying that a game can't be made fun when people aren't super powerful using the pathfinder rule set?

I assume the original poster wants to play in this game and isn't being forced to with a gun to his head. Personally I read the original post as not a 'hard nosed GM with control issues' but rather a GM who wants to try something different and lower powered.

What makes a game fun is the players and the DM. A good set of both makes fun. But in my experience, a DM that puts these kinds of restrictions is almost always a control freak who doesn’t have the skills or moxie to handle players that might wander off his tracks a little.


DrDeth wrote:
Hawktitan wrote:

So you guys are saying that a game can't be made fun when people aren't super powerful using the pathfinder rule set?

I assume the original poster wants to play in this game and isn't being forced to with a gun to his head. Personally I read the original post as not a 'hard nosed GM with control issues' but rather a GM who wants to try something different and lower powered.

What makes a game fun is the players and the DM. A good set of both makes fun. But in my experience, a DM that puts these kinds of restrictions is almost always a control freak who doesn’t have the skills or moxie to handle players that might wander off his tracks a little.

Restrictions can also breed creativity.


Have to agree with Hawktitan on that.

Also, As a Gm for a restricted E6 game (as well as a lvl13 no restrictions game), I can tell you that one of the major advantages too these types of games is time management; both out of game for GM prep, and ingame during combats. Too the GM with a full time job and family, E6 games are very attractive.

I have generaly found that people who are primarily players, and have never made a home brew world, drasticley underestimate the amount of work required (as opposed to running, say, an adventure path or series of published modules).

Edit: Btw, great choice on the Magus, Your party make up is fairly close to my players party. They are level 3 currently, but they have a Magus, Ranger, Sorc, Bard and Rogue.


Dexion1619 wrote:

Have to agree with Hawktitan on that.

Also, As a Gm for a restricted E6 game (as well as a lvl13 no restrictions game), I can tell you that one of the major advantages too these types of games is time management; both out of game for GM prep, and ingame during combats. Too the GM with a full time job and family, E6 games are very attractive.

I have generaly found that people who are primarily players, and have never made a home brew world, drasticley underestimate the amount of work required (as opposed to running, say, an adventure path or series of published modules).

True, it does take some time, but when I started DMing there were no published modules.


I would go Lion/Saurian Shaman Druid, this means you start off with pounce, rake and grab as well as a +4 bonus to strength and natural armour. Then just pull out the buffs and laugh at the rest of the party with their one or two attacks compared to your five, 8 if your get the obligatory companion, dozens if you go all out summoning.

With ten point buy human, this is assuming you are getting the usual stat boost at level 4.

Strength: 18
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 12
Wisdom 14
Intelligence 8

As for Wild-shapes use Dire Tigers for Lion Shaman or Deinonychus (medium) and Allosaurus for Saurian Druid.

If you want to go a caster druid then go with these stats

Strength 12
Dexterity:14
Constitution:12
Wisdom:18
Intelligence:8

and pick up an Ape Companion who will be seriously effective in E6 levels due to its 24 strength and three attacks. Become a Domesticated Cat (tiny) with Wild Shape and laugh at your surprisingly high AC.


Wind Chime wrote:

I would go Lion/Saurian Shaman Druid, this means you start off with pounce, rake and grab as well as a +4 bonus to strength and natural armour. Then just pull out the buffs and laugh at the rest of the party with their one or two attacks compared to your five, 8 if your get the obligatory companion, dozens if you go all out

I really mean the following in the nicest way possible... But...

What a wonderful way to never be invited back to a table... I'm guessing you missed the part where the OP said he was OK with the lower powered game, and the group was trying something differant?

Realy? Laugh at the other characters? Yes, lets all wait while you roll up your 8 attacks, plus summoned critters...


He asked for optimization and showed him how to optimize around the rather stringent limitations his gm made and I did.

I personally would go with the caster druid myself with 18 in his casting stat his dc's should be great he should get a fair number of spells per day and he will have a companion who will probably have higher AC (28), AB (9), and number of attacks (3) than any of the other player.

As for the Wild-shape build I would pick up the Glory(Heroism)instead of a companion for the wonderful Heroism spell (+2 to saves and ab for an hour a day)and not summon. Damage-wise it is probably the best you can get at E6 unless you are using mounted charges it also has good saves and spell casting versatility.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Quote:
Breaker Barbarian with an Adamantine Durable Arrow.

Not affordable on 800gp....

Adamantine Durable Arrow is 61gp.

Affordable by any 1st level PC.

Large version is 122gp.

Shadow Lodge

Well, I suppose if you don't mind shooting just one of them, then waiting until the fight is over to go find it. Realistically he'd need at least a dozen of the things (which would barely leave money for a non-masterwork bow and a loin-cloth) in order to be effective with them in a multi-round combat.

(They're the sort of thing he buys later on.)


I think the point of the adamantine durable arrow is that you use it as an improvised weapon. If I were the GM though, I wouldn't allow anyone to use an adamantine arrow as if it was an adamantine dagger/shortsword - surely the only part of an arrow that's special material is the point.

Shadow Lodge

Another "make the GM happy" build which is deceptively powerful (relatively speaking, of course):

STR+15 INT:12
DEX:14 WIS:07
CON:12 CHA:12 ...STR becomes 16 at 4th

Deity: Abadar

Build: Paladin 6 (CRB)

Traits: Dangerously Curious, Eyes and Ears of the City

Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw

Equipment: four-mirror armor, lance, bardiche, longsword, quickdraw light shield, military saddle, light crossbow (you'll buy a MW STR composite bow later)

Divine bond: mount (heavy horse -- *no* dinosaurs, etc)

= = = =

What "sells" it to your grumpy GM who's sick of Monty Haul Munchkinland:

* No 18 in any stat
* No multiclassing
* You do have a sidekick, but it's just a horse
* You're an ordinary bloke human
* The PC's alignment will reign in your bad impulses as a player

-- So, you earn far fewer frowns out of the gate from your GM than other players submitting Tinkertoy/Frankenstein builds with two 7s and an 18 in them. This lets him compose his adventure with one less irritation.

What makes it strong:

* 24 skill points to spread around; 30 if you want 'em
* Use Magic Device and Perception are on the class list
* +8 stat bonuses in a 10pt build; all stats "even" at cap
* Reach weapons and Combat Reflexes generate extra attacks
* Ride by Attack denies opponents full-attacks, avoiding damage
* Excellent AC and self-repair skills
* The mount may be replaced at some point
* +1 to attack ground targets while mounted means attack bonus is equivalent to unmounted STR 18 PC.
* Class-list Diplomacy and Sense Motive let you gab indoors when the mount is curbed
* You have an iterative attack
* Quick Draw means the right tool is in your hands at all times


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
soupturtle wrote:
I think the point of the adamantine durable arrow is that you use it as an improvised weapon. If I were the GM though, I wouldn't allow anyone to use an adamantine arrow as if it was an adamantine dagger/shortsword - surely the only part of an arrow that's special material is the point.

It notes in the Arrow description that it can be used as an improvised weapon.

Also, Adamantine spears count as Adamantine, even though it is just the tip.


I still say Witch with a Fighter kicker. The issue with low level builds is resources and Hexes never run out - moreover, they can be used while in full plate if you wish and the character can easily pass for a Fighter or something similar. Slumber and Misfortune are amongst the most powerful abiities a character 6th level or under can possess.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
soupturtle wrote:
I think the point of the adamantine durable arrow is that you use it as an improvised weapon. If I were the GM though, I wouldn't allow anyone to use an adamantine arrow as if it was an adamantine dagger/shortsword - surely the only part of an arrow that's special material is the point.

It notes in the Arrow description that it can be used as an improvised weapon.

Also, Adamantine spears count as Adamantine, even though it is just the tip.

I'd be fine with using it as a piercing weapon. But I wouldn't let you cut the locks out of doors or cut through walls or any of the other things some people do with adamantine daggers (which are kind of weird anyway, but in principle bypassing hardness is pretty much the equivalent of cutting through anything like it's butter), as you wouldn't be able to apply those kinds of lateral forces with an arrow shaft.

edit: And yes, I know that's a bit contradictory, since cutting through butter doesn't require much force. But I try to see adamantine as a very hard metal, rather than as something that makes materials magically split open to avoid touching the adamantine. So cutting through things with it still has to require some amount of force. So maybe it's more like cutting through a large piece of meat: it doesn't have any 'hardness', but it still requires a decent amount of force.

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