Interest Check: the noobiest of noob games


Recruitment

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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So, I GM a few games and play in a few more on these boards and my son has recently become curious about my play by post habits. He says he's interested in trying it. Here's the thing though... He just finished 2nd grade. He reads at like a 5th or 6th grade level but he definitely writes like a 2nd grader, and he's never played any table top or text based games before. I'm thinking about putting something together for him to try it out and I'm wondering if there's anyone out there who thinks it would be fun to introduce a young kid to the game?

I'd probably be looking for 2-4 players who:
1) can keep everything G rated (maybe a little PG)
2) won't mind if some of his posts are hard (or impossible) to read
3) can write simply enough for him to keep up, and
4) will be patient with his noobish behavior and mistakes

I want it to be fun and exciting for him so it would probably be somewhat high powered... Probably start somewhere in the level 7-9 range, high point buy, quite possibly gestalt. I know that sounds way too complex for a kid but the idea would be to do all the mechanics 'off camera'- players would post what they want to do and then hide all their rolls and whatnot in a spoiler, for his turn he'd say what he wants to do and I'd handle all his rolls in a spoiler and tell everyone their results. I'd build his character for him and would be willing to help do that for others too if there are other new players interested.

I don't know what the posting rate would be like or how long the game would last. Anyone interested? Any other parents with curious kids maybe?

Sczarni

I'd be game for such a thing, more people in the hobby is better!


I would totally be game. I'm a second grade teacher and think it's awesome that you are trying to introduce him to it.

Dark Archive

Sure, I'll be a third... or in this case a 4th by now....minimum needed.

What is everyone going to be?

@Nate... What materials are you using for creating and using when his character levels up? Like PHB, any ultimate stuff?

I think it would be nice if we all used the same thing.

Dark Archive

Although, if you want to teach him proper, I'd say start level 1. It's cool to survive, especially if ya almost die. Though I agree sometimes the low level stuff is a bit hard....

I'm a little less interested in Gestalt, but once before in 3.5 I did a Paladin Monk in a horror campaign and got turned into a Vampire...

Sczarni

If you have the Beginner Box, that is quite a nice introduction to PF, with some simplified rules and a good intro adventure with goblins, skeletons, and eventually a dragon at the end.

Do as you will, of course, just a suggestion.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I hadn't fully thought through these questions (which is part of the reason I posted this as an interest check instead of a recruitment). I probably won't do first level because even if it is a more realistic introduction to the game I'm not sure he's really ready to enjoy just surviving. It's kind of the same with gestalt... not using it might be more realistic but I think he'll have more fun if I don't have to keep telling him that he can't do things.

For materials I would probably use all the paizo stuff available on d20pfsrd.

Sczarni

I can understand the whole "want to win" deal, and I totally understand the softball approach for children.

I would seriously suggest limiting the resources available to Core Rulebook, and tailor encounters / DCs to values which allow for Lvl 1 (or whatever you choose) to really shine.

A couple of goblins vs. a party of Lvl 1 PCs can be a hilarious and memorable encounter, even if the absolute values of the To Hits/ACs are relatively low.

This also allows for certain things like bloodline powers, wizard schools, and domain abilities to shine, before they get outclassed by other abilities (like higher level spells and the like.)

As I said, do as you like, sounds like an interesting exercise to engage in.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'll figure it out before I switch to an actual recruitment. Part of me does want to keep it simple because it's a lot for me and for the other players to make complicated/higher level characters for a game that might not really go anywhere. The thing is my son is really into Jedi and American ninja warrior (a tv show where people compete on crazy obstacle courses that require impressively difficult acrobatics and climbing) so I'd like to make him something in that vein but he'd need to be more than 1st level to pull any of that off.

Sczarni

Decent Str/Dex on a Ranger/Rogue/Barbarian & you have +9/10 on acrobatics & climb null sweat.

That means take 10=DC 20 on Climb/Acrobatics without a problem at level 1.

Climb

0 A slope too steep to walk up, or a knotted rope with a wall to brace against.
5 A rope with a wall to brace against, or a knotted rope, or a rope affected by the rope trick spell.
10 A surface with ledges to hold on to and stand on, such as a very rough wall or a ship's rigging.
15 Any surface with adequate handholds and footholds (natural or artificial), such as a very rough natural rock surface or a tree, or an unknotted rope, or pulling yourself up when dangling by your hands.
20 An uneven surface with narrow handholds and footholds, such as a typical wall in a dungeon.
25 A rough surface, such as a natural rock wall or a brick wall.
30 An overhang or ceiling with handholds only.
— A perfectly smooth, flat vertical (or inverted) surface cannot be climbed.

Climb DC Modifier*

Example Surface or Activity

–10 Climbing a chimney (artificial or natural) or other location where you can brace against two opposite walls.
–5 Climbing a corner where you can brace against perpendicular walls.
+5 Surface is slippery.

Acrobatics:

Check: You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. A successful check allows you to move at half speed across such surfaces—only one check is needed per round. Use the following table to determine the base DC, which is then modified by the Acrobatics skill modifiers noted below. While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any). If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.

Surface Width

Base Acrobatics DC

Greater than 3 feet wide 0*
1–3 feet wide 5*
7–11 inches wide 10
2–6 inches wide 15
Less than 2 inches wide 20

* No Acrobatics check is needed to move across these surfaces unless the modifiers to the surface (below) increase the DC to 10 or higher.

In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5. If you attempt to move through an enemy's space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity.

Situation

Base Acrobatics DC*

Move through a threatened area Opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
Move through an enemy's space 5 + opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense

* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.

Long Jump

Acrobatics DC

5 feet 5
10 feet 10
15 feet 15
20 feet 20
Greater than 20 feet +5 per 5 feet

High Jump

Acrobatics DC

1 foot 4
2 feet 8
3 feet 12
4 feet 16
Greater than 4 feet +4 per foot

Finally, you can use the Acrobatics skill to make jumps or to soften a fall. The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal) or four times the height to be reached (if vertical). These DCs double if you do not have at least 10 feet of space to get a running start. The only Acrobatics modifiers that apply are those concerning the surface you are jumping from. If you fail this check by 4 or less, you can attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to grab hold of the other side after having missed the jump. If you fail by 5 or more, you fail to make the jump and fall (or land prone, in the case of a vertical jump). Creatures with a base land speed above 30 feet receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed above 30 feet. Creatures with a base land speed below 30 feet receive a –4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed below 30 feet. No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round. For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.

When you deliberately fall any distance, even as a result of a missed jump, a DC 15 Acrobatics skill check allows you to ignore the first 10 feet fallen, although you still end up prone if you take damage from a fall. See the falling rules for further details.

Many conditions can affect your chances of success with Acrobatics checks. The following modifiers to target DCs apply to all Acrobatics skill checks. The modifiers stack with one another, but only the most severe modifier for any one condition applies.

Acrobatics Modifiers

DC Modifier

Slightly obstructed (gravel, sand) +2
Severely obstructed (cavern, rubble) +5
Slightly slippery (wet) +2
Severely slippery (icy) +5
Slightly sloped (<45°) +2
Severely sloped (>45°) +5
Slightly unsteady (boat in rough water) +2
Moderately unsteady (boat in a storm) +5
Severely unsteady (earthquake) +10
Move at full speed on narrow or uneven surfaces +5*

* This does not apply to checks made to jump.

Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.

Special: If you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.

If you have the Acrobatic feat, you get a bonus on Acrobatics checks (see Feats).

Ninja Warrior levels of expertise from early levels, and can go higher with racial bonuses, feats, or the like.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Yeah, the ninja warrior stuff is easier than the Jedi stuff probably.

Since this is an interest check I guess I should just ask: if you are interested in potentially playing, what kind of set up would you prefer? Low level, mid level, high level? Normal or gestalt? Normal point buy or high?

Sczarni

I am up for anything, but generally prefer the lower spectrum of the game.

Stat generation I can take or leave, Point buy or standard rolling are pretty much the same to me.

One of my favorite PCS was made for an all-too-soon ended Core only 15 pt buy game. He was a lot of fun to play.


What kind of story do you think your child would want? What does he like?

I would agree that you should go simple. Core and (perhaps) APG or ACG. 20 pt buy. Level 1. I would recommend doing a PFS type adventure -- not for the PFS credit, but because it is something really, really short.

Master of the Fallen Fortress could be a lot of fun.

Goblins would be good and fun. For scenarios, you could do Frostfur Captives.

Another possibility: Consortium Compact to do a sabotage mission. It's great for Ninjas and rogues. I've GMed that multiple times for kids, and they've loved it.

Another possiblity that might be fun would be doing the Phantom Phenomena Series with your real characters. Each mini adventure is short, the whole series tells one big story. I've GMed Phantom Phenomena multiple times and have had players just love it. It throws people straight into the story and offers some lighthearted challenges.

I generally don't GM more than one adventure on the boards at a time. I worry about my personal bandwidth. But a slower game (1-2 posts a day instead of the manic rate I usually run my games at) might be okay, especially if its a short episodic thing like Phantom Phenomena. But it sounds like you already want to GM, so I guess I'm just here as a consultant.

Give him something short with a beginning, middle and an end and a really obvious plot that he can hang on to.

Hmm


An interesting idea Nate. I have a five year old son - we've played a few encounters with "characters" chosen from among the Beginner Box cardstock minis (he chose a Water elemental and a Lizardfolk to be offsiders of his Goblin Chief).

I'll be keeping an eye on this to see how it goes. I would probably stick to the lower level-range, but I understand the desire to actually be able to do heroic stuff...


If you are going to be making the character sheet with him I would say start at level 1 non gestalt core rulebook. If you are going to do all of the prework for him you could really go with anything, and a mid level gestalt would work well because, like you said you wouldn't have to keep telling him "you can't do that."

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thanks for all the tips and advice!

@Uthraed- my idea was to keep all the mechanics behind the scenes for him for this first game and just see if he likes playing. I would make his character for him and handle all his rolls. If he enjoys the game and wants to play again then I would start teaching him the mechanics (which would mean starting at 1st level with a fairly small pool of options).


I'd be interested!

I would likewise recommend starting at L1 and running it with the Beginner Box rules. I think young players can get a better grasp on things when their options arent too wide, but allow any sort of improvising. Low-level characters can be really heroic if the stakes aren't too high.

Legendary Games recently released an AP designed for all-ages play called Trail of the Apprentice . That might be a great one to run!


Been trying to get in one of your games for ages, nate!

I like the idea of being a high-powered hero, but I'd be sure to explain to him that not all games would be like that. As for what to run, I second the idea of using the various PFS modules. There's a 3-parter specifically designed to introduce people to Pathfinder. Can't remember which season it was in off the top of my head.

Dark Archive

nate lange wrote:
I'll figure it out before I switch to an actual recruitment. Part of me does want to keep it simple because it's a lot for me and for the other players to make complicated/higher level characters for a game that might not really go anywhere. The thing is my son is really into Jedi and American ninja warrior (a tv show where people compete on crazy obstacle courses that require impressively difficult acrobatics and climbing) so I'd like to make him something in that vein but he'd need to be more than 1st level to pull any of that off.

Who isn't into Jedi? And I love Ninja Warrior myself.

As for the game... I think the limits might be in your mind... unless your son has expressed doing something that is a higher level.. like casting fireball (since it's a certain level) then it's not really issue. Starting at low level and making the character shows him what he can do.

I played a thing that was tier 3-7 as a ninja. And we were trying to capture someone. So I described my movement and running and then going to my knees so as the AoO was taken, I bent backward (like limbo) as the sword passed, then stood up and attacked. Sounded awesome, gave a visual and I was low level.

Been also watching "Critical Role" and along with my own DM'ing has made me realize, you don't have to deny a player with no. Let them attempt it and make a roll. As a DM you can make the DC to high for them and the player doesn't know. Unless they requested something really cool then you have to figure out how to make it work.

For my Ranger I had bought a tree coin. Throw it down and grows 60 feet tall with 40 wide treetop. I had wanted to use it in a building to crush bad guys against the ceiling but was told that there wasn't a way to calculate that in PFS, but a home game might have figured it out.

Just my 2 cents.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thanks again everyone. I need to talk to my son some more but I'll let people know if/when I put a game together.


Yeah I'd say keep it low level and just make the enemies weaker to compensate. You need a ton of bad rolls to have a problem with enemies doing 1d2 damage. Plus there's no reason why level 1 characters can't have somewhat overpowered gear.

Dark Archive

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