Ok, I am not sure if there is a misunderstanding because I never wanted to say that "all characters in the game world have the same point buy just because all in the group do so".Then I am not sure why you responded to my post.
Because I thought your reply "All characters within a party having the same point buy does not mean all characters in the game world have the same point buy." would imply that you thought I would think that (all characters in party equals all characters in the world).
Does that make sense? ;)
What I would like to know now (I prefer to lurk due to my "not so good english") is WHY someone likes one way more than the other.Well, I've asked that question several times in this thread.
I prefer point buy because it allows me to play a character in-line with the concept I want to play.
If anyone articulated a reason that forcing people to play characters they don't especially want to play is a good thing, I missed it.
I don't think anyone defended that view, because I don't see anyone holding it.
I like randomised stat generation methods for previously described reasons. I don't think anyone should be forced to play a character they don't want to though.
The trouble with "roll the first five and balance things up with charisma" method is that it doesn't work if you roll very well or very poorly. It's what I'd try to do if the rest of the group wanted to play point buy though - its a good attempt at pleasing everyone.
Hey I ain't a mathematician.
That's okay. But i am. :-)
Don't confuse average with variance.
Grumble... not first language.. ...ahem.
They are the most probable scores in layman terms.
Well, I've asked that question several times in this thread.I prefer point buy because it allows me to play a character in-line with the concept I want to play.
If anyone articulated a reason that forcing people to play characters they don't especially want to play is a good thing, I missed it.
I don't think anyone defended that view, because I don't see anyone holding it.
I like randomised stat generation methods
You yourself hold that view. If you make your players use randomized stat generation, you are forcin people to play characters they don't especially want to play.
If not, explain what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
The trouble with "roll the first five and balance things up with charisma" method is that it doesn't work if you roll very well or very poorly.
This is errant nonsense. It works no worse than rolling six. You end up with wild swings that match up in no sensible way with any character conception you had it mind.
Let's assume you roll poorly for your first five rolls.
Case 1) you balance those out with high charisma. This is bad!
Case 2) you roll roughly same number you would have balanced it out with. This is good! as it gives you a roll playing challenge (that's not a typo -- you're playing rolls here).
Case 3) you roll average or below. You now have a character who's severely underpowered. This is good!
A situation that almost everyone agrees is unfun is good, and of two cases that are functinonally identical to another one is good and one case is bad, despite producing the exact same character.
Hey I ain't a mathematician.That's okay. But i am. :-)
Don't confuse average with variance.Grumble... not first language.. ...ahem.
They are the most probable scores in layman terms.
Agreed. But I think the question here is variability around the most probable. For some reason, these people thing it's fun to make someone play something underpowered relative to the rest of the party. No one will actually admit that it's simply schadenfreude, or present a viable alternative explanation.
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You yourself hold that view. If you make your players use randomized stat generation, you are forcin people to play characters they don't especially want to play.
If not, explain what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
How does rolling for ability scores FORCE you to play a character you don't like? Each time I am presented with a point buy generation rule, I am being "forced" to play a character I don't like. I absolutely despise the whole "dump stat" BS that is rampant with the point buy method. Every wizard feels the same (dump Str, Cha down to 7, boost Int to 18, get Dex and Wis to 12 at least, and Con up to around 15). To me, that's a horrible character to play. It would be even worse if I wanted to play a Druid or Paladin or Monk. And if I didn't want to dump any stats to 7, I could have a wizard with Str 10, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 10 and be even worse. And this is all before any racial adjustments. And why would I want to play anything but human/half-elf/half-orc in a point-buy character?
If you don't like the GM's method for generating your character's stats, yet everyone else is fine with it, either suck it up or leave.
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How does rolling for ability scores FORCE you to play a character you don't like?
If not, explain what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
At the risk of repeating myself, what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
Just answer the question. You'll see very quickly where the "forcing" comes in.
Each time I am presented with a point buy generation rule, I am being "forced" to play a character I don't like.
Really? So a character with Str 12, Dex 11, Con 13, Int 9, Wis 14, and Cha 11 is lots of fun to play when you rolled the stats....
But a character Str 12, Dex 11, Con 13, Int 9, Wis 14, and Cha 11 that you purchased is a character you don't like.
I submit it's not the character that you dislike. If I handed you two character sheets with those stats written on them, you wouldn't even know which one was which.
I absolutely despise the whole "dump stat" BS that is rampant with the point buy method. Every wizard feels the same (dump Str, Cha down to 7, boost Int to 18, get Dex and Wis to 12 at least, and Con up to around 15). To me, that's a horrible character to play.
So don't play it. Buy a 14 strength if you like.
Oh,... wait. The problem isn't that you don't like YOUR character. It's that you don't like MINE, and so you want to FORCE me to play a wizard that you like, even if I don't, because somehow that impinges upon your fighter?
And why would I want to play anything but human/half-elf/half-orc in a point-buy character?
Er, because it's fun? If you think that it would be fun to play a wizard with a strength score higher than his intelligence, build it. No one's stopping you. If you just like saying the phrase "the Gnome Ranger," create one.
You yourself hold that view. If you make your players use randomized stat generation, you are forcin people to play characters they don't especially want to play.
Where does he say that he will make the players do that?!
I imagine it's more like:
GM: "Hey guys, I would like to try starting a new group with some houserules concerning character creation, wealth per level. The houserules are ... . What do you think"
>discussion in which it is decided which rules to use and so on follows<
I am really sorry Orfamay but I think you have fixation on the "forcing the players" for some reason.
As with every style of gaming - this only works if the whole group is ok with playing this way.
And - no, if the group agrees to certain houserules and then all go by it I do not think that someone is "forced" to do so even if he gets "bad rolls".
Why? Because when the group discusses the rules it is decided which results are considered playable by ALL members of the group.
Edit cause of new posts:
At the risk of repeating myself, what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
Also at the risk of repeating myself.
You are part of a group of 5 people, you, 3 players, 1 DM.
The DM suggests some houserules and the group discusses them.
For example the rules are:
"Each of you roles his character with 3d6 for each ability score. These are used as rolled (1st strength, and so on) but you may switch two of them.
Also, if the rolled stats are under 10 point buy you may reroll.
If the stats are over 20 point buy you have to decrease the stats until they are 20 point buy at the maximum. You may give these decreased points to another player with under 20 point buy added to the according ability score."
To keep this short only some possible outcomes:
a) only the gm and one player find these ideas good - the houserules are scrapped
b) GM +2 players like this - the group tries do modify the houserules so all people involved like them
c) GM +3 players: as b) but also with the request to the one player to give it try for the others sake and if it really sucks for him after 2 sessions the rules are scrapped /..
d) all like -> perfect
Where in this would you be forced to do anything? I do not see it.
Where does he say that he will make the players do that?!
You yourself hold that view. If you make your players use randomized stat generation, you are forcin people to play characters they don't especially want to play.
I love how everyone "defending" random rolls will neither state a benefit to be obtained, or answer any questions about them; The emperor clearly has no clothes here.
The question, in case you missed it the first dozen times, is "what happens when you roll a character whose stats you don't like." Feel free to actually answer it at some point.
At the risk of repeating myself, what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
Also at the risk of repeating myself.
You are part of a group of 5 people, you, 3 players, 1 DM.
The DM suggests some houserules and the group discusses them.
For example the rules are:
"Each of you roles his character with 3d6 for each ability score. These are used as rolled (1st strength, and so on) but you may switch two of them.
Also, if the rolled stats are under 10 point buy you may reroll.
If the stats are over 20 point buy you have to decrease the stats until they are 20 point buy at the maximum. You may give these decreased points to another player with under 20 point buy added to the according ability score."
None of that actually addresses the question asked.
Let me help you.
"When you roll characters whose stat you don't like, you should ..."
All of that dribble about "house rules" is simply saying that "the Game Master is free to propose rules that will FORCE players to play characters they do't particularly like." Which of course is true, he's free to propose anything. But it doesn't actually answer the question about why on earth he would propose such rules, how the rules would actually address this case, or why anyone would find it fun to force fellow players into playing not-fun characters.
Feel free at any point to actually present a benefit from the proposed rolling.
You are part of a group of 5 people, you, 3 players, 1 DM.
The DM suggests some houserules and the group discusses them.For example the rules are:
"Each of you roles his character with 3d6 for each ability score. These are used as rolled (1st strength, and so on) but you may switch two of them.
Also, if the rolled stats are under 10 point buy you may reroll.
If the stats are over 20 point buy you have to decrease the stats until they are 20 point buy at the maximum. You may give these decreased points to another player with under 20 point buy added to the according ability score."
All right, let's follow this out. A player listens to the proposed rules and says, for example:
"These rules don't sound fun. What happens if I get a set of rolls that give me a character I don't want to play? What's the upside?"Is the Game Master going to ignore that question from a player the way that question has systematically been ignored in this thread?
I love how everyone "defending" random rolls will neither state a benefit to be obtained, or answer any questions about them; The emperor clearly has no clothes here.Where does he say that he will make the players do that?!
You yourself hold that view. If you make your players use randomized stat generation, you are forcin people to play characters they don't especially want to play.
I answered it (as did many others), you're just not listening and are assuming we are saying theres some benefit to you (i dont think there is, given the way you like to play).
The benefit for my group is that we like it more.
The question, in case you missed it the first dozen times, is "what happens when you roll a character whose stats you don't like." Feel free to actually answer it at some point.
At our table they can roll again. This option has never been taken up, as far as I can remember.
You are part of a group of 5 people, you, 3 players, 1 DM.
The DM suggests some houserules and the group discusses them.For example the rules are:
"Each of you roles his character with 3d6 for each ability score. These are used as rolled (1st strength, and so on) but you may switch two of them.
Also, if the rolled stats are under 10 point buy you may reroll.
If the stats are over 20 point buy you have to decrease the stats until they are 20 point buy at the maximum. You may give these decreased points to another player with under 20 point buy added to the according ability score."All right, let's follow this out. A player listens to the proposed rules and says, for example:
"These rules don't sound fun. What happens if I get a set of rolls that give me a character I don't want to play? What's the upside?"Is the Game Master going to ignore that question from a player the way that question has systematically been ignored in this thread?
Looking at my example this is in line with what I wrote under c):
c) GM +3 players: as b) but also with the request to the one player to give it try for the others sake and if it really sucks for him after 2 sessions the rules are scrapped /..Honestly, I did not post to give the upsides/reasons for this kind of playing but to contradict your repeated "I will be forced".
This housrule will be forced on every player the same way every other houserule is forced on a group:
The group desides if the rule should be used.
If the rule is used and after some sessions people are no longer happy the rule has to be discussed again.
I do not see the point where someone is forced into anything in this scenario because it is voluntary.
For me this is like "What AP should we play next" and the group desides on Carrion Crown despite one player being not so happy about it. Despite this he sais "Ok guys, I don't like some things I know about this path but you all really would like to play it so I'll give it a try".
Is he forced to do this? No - but he respects the opinions of the other players and also knows that they will try to respect his preferances.
Maybe after some sessions he sais "Ah, its better than I thought" or "Not the best but gaming with you all is fun and if we do one that I prefer after that its ok".
Or: "Sry guys, I don't like this Path and I don't have fun".
What happens in that case? That depends on the group.
You yourself hold that view. If you make your players use randomized stat generation, you are forcin people to play characters they don't especially want to play.
Well, I've asked that question several times in this thread.I prefer point buy because it allows me to play a character in-line with the concept I want to play.
If anyone articulated a reason that forcing people to play characters they don't especially want to play is a good thing, I missed it.
I don't think anyone defended that view, because I don't see anyone holding it.
I like randomised stat generation methods
As I said before, I prefer random stat generation as a player, not as a DM. When I DM, we generate stats however the players want.
If not, explain what happens when I roll a character whose stats I don't like?
I wouldn't make you use that method, obviously, so it's a moot point.
The trouble with "roll the first five and balance things up with charisma" method is that it doesn't work if you roll very well or very poorly.This is errant nonsense. It works no worse than rolling six. You end up with wild swings that match up in no sensible way with any character conception you had it mind.
You're not thinking it through. Fifteen points and your first five rolls are 18, 16, 17, 14, 13. What's your charisma?
Similarly if you roll very poorly. It's a good effort and its what I'd try to do if someone forced me* to use point buy. It's not perfect though.
The question, in case you missed it the first dozen times, is "what happens when you roll a character whose stats you don't like." Feel free to actually answer it at some point.At our table they can roll again. This option has never been taken up, as far as I can remember.
Thank you for finally answering the question.
Looking at my example this is in line with what I wrote under c):
You are part of a group of 5 people, you, 3 players, 1 DM.
The DM suggests some houserules and the group discusses them.For example the rules are:
"Each of you roles his character with 3d6 for each ability score. These are used as rolled (1st strength, and so on) but you may switch two of them.
Also, if the rolled stats are under 10 point buy you may reroll.
If the stats are over 20 point buy you have to decrease the stats until they are 20 point buy at the maximum. You may give these decreased points to another player with under 20 point buy added to the according ability score."All right, let's follow this out. A player listens to the proposed rules and says, for example:
"These rules don't sound fun. What happens if I get a set of rolls that give me a character I don't want to play? What's the upside?"Is the Game Master going to ignore that question from a player the way that question has systematically been ignored in this thread?
That's a "yes," then. The question will be ignored. After all, you just ignored it.
c) GM +3 players: as b) but also with the request to the one player to give it try for the others sake and if it really sucks for him after 2 sessions the rules are scrapped
"That doesn't sound fun. What's the upside?"
"Just give it a try for the others' sake, huh?"
"Why? It doesn't sound fun."
"It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be an exercise in your not having fun so the rest of us can amuse ourselves at your expense."
"Go die in a fire."
Thank you for finally answering the question.
The question, in case you missed it the first dozen times, is "what happens when you roll a character whose stats you don't like." Feel free to actually answer it at some point.At our table they can roll again. This option has never been taken up, as far as I can remember.
I answered it as soon as you asked it. Previously you've been asking "why is it good to force someone to play a character they don't like?" (To which I replied "they shouldn't be forced").
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Rolling stats gives you a chance of rolling well, so you'll be happy.
It also gives you a chance of rolling really badly, in which case you get a do-over if your rolls add up to a certain amount or less, or whose bonuses add up to a certain amount or less.
If you roll badly, but not quite badly enough to re-roll...meh. Them's the breaks. At least you had a chance, and there's no-one to blame.
Point-buy is guaranteed to give a result I don't like, 100% of the time.
Rolling gives hope, where point-buy has none.
If you roll badly, there's no-one to blame beyond the dice gods. If you're stuck with point-buy, it's the DM's fault.
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Thank you for finally answering the question.
The question, in case you missed it the first dozen times, is "what happens when you roll a character whose stats you don't like." Feel free to actually answer it at some point.At our table they can roll again. This option has never been taken up, as far as I can remember.
Assuming there is no reroll limit, you're better off just picking stats. It's functionally no different than rerolling until you get stats you like.
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Why is 'fair' an issue?
Point buy is NOT 'fair' to monks. If one guy regularly rolls 15-20 at the table, and I roll 1-5, it's not fair.
Life...is not fair.
I bet if you read your favorite fantasy book, it's not always fair.
*shrug*
I like variables. I might want a total wicked fighter, but only get a 15 Str (I use the grid method)...but if he has a 16 Dex, a 14 Con...and a 15 Int, I can still make him a wicked fighter...and have a blast with him. Wiz with a 16 Str? Cool. Sorc has a 7 Con, but 15 Dex and 16 Int? I can work with that.
Would I have built any of them with point buy?
Ummm...I doubt it.
Rolling stats gives you a chance of rolling well, so you'll be happy.
It also gives you a chance of rolling really badly, in which case you get a do-over if your rolls add up to a certain amount or less, or whose bonuses add up to a certain amount or less.
If you roll badly, but not quite badly enough to re-roll...meh. Them's the breaks. At least you had a chance, and there's no-one to blame.
Point-buy is guaranteed to give a result I don't like, 100% of the time.
Rolling gives hope, where point-buy has none.
If you roll badly, there's no-one to blame beyond the dice gods. If you're stuck with point-buy, it's the DM's fault.
This pretty much. I am fairly generous with my players' score generation (4d6 six times, reroll 1s, drop lowest, arrange as desired). I also let them reroll 1 score below a 10, taking the better result.
Oh,... wait. The problem isn't that you don't like YOUR character. It's that you don't like MINE, and so you want to FORCE me to play a wizard that you like, even if I don't, because somehow that impinges upon your fighter?
So, you want to FORCE me to play a fighter you like, even if I don't, because somehow that impinges upon your wizard?
I am glad my CotCT DM let us roll ability scores instead of point buy, or else my wizard would be SOL. Why? Because she ended up taking levels in fighter when she reached level 6 due to nearly dying to some naga poison. If I would have followed one of the wizard guides, I wouldn't have been able to effectively be a fighter (dumping Str to 7) and going into eldritch knight.
Also, does your hatred for random rolling bleed over into the other portions of the game? Do you hate your DM FORCING you to roll for Knowledge checks, as the concept of your wizard is that he knows an enormous amount information about dragons and magical beasts, but ends up knowing nothing about a black dragon because you rolled a 2?
And there's always a way to not be "forced" into playing a character you don't like. It's called walking away. You don't NEED to play with a group that rolls their stats. Just like I don't NEED to play with a group that uses point buy.
The main objection to rolling stats is lack of balance, along with a total lack of understanding of the actual expected results depending on what combinations of rolls permit rerolls.
How would people feel about a system that balances itself?
For example: Let's say you roll 4d6, take the three highest, and then roll a d12 (divided by 2 and rounded up) to determine which stat that roll applies to. Repeat the process four time, using a smaller die (d10, d8, d6, d4) to assign the rolled ability score each time. For the last ability score, you add up the point buy values of the five ability scores already rolled, compare them with the target point buy value, and assign the last value accordingly. If the last value cannot be assigned a value between 7 and 18, you throw out that character and start over.
This system would be both totally balanced and totally random in assigning ability scores.
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One other point: The retraining options in Ultimate Campaign provide a way to compensate for bad hit die rolls but not for bad ability score rolls, so a system with unlimited down time and wealth would result in all characters eventually having maximum possible hit points but no way to balance out uneven ability score rolls.
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The problem is that we've done that experiment. For the history buffs -- all four of them -- there was Rolemaster and similar systems. Ever heard of it? Ever played it?
... and that's why. Not enough people considered that level of detail "fun." Even by the standards of a relatively niche hobby, Rolemaster was not really a successful product.
Rolemaster's alive and well, actually (see http://ironcrown.com/).
Richard
I am glad my CotCT DM let us roll ability scores instead of point buy, or else my wizard would be SOL. Why? Because she ended up taking levels in fighter when she reached level 6 due to nearly dying to some naga poison. If I would have followed one of the wizard guides, I wouldn't have been able to effectively be a fighter (dumping Str to 7) and going into eldritch knight.
Well, given that you rolled your stats, you were much more likely to have had a mediocre or low strength score and thus wouldn't have been able to create the character you're now playing. Anyone who wants to play an edritch knight is going to know full well that they can't dump Strength and expect it to work, and is probably intelligent enough to know that advice that's given in a guide for a single-classed Wizard may not be entirely applicable to a gish.
Assuming there is no reroll limit, you're better off just picking stats. It's functionally no different than rerolling until you get stats you like.Thank you for finally answering the question.
The question, in case you missed it the first dozen times, is "what happens when you roll a character whose stats you don't like." Feel free to actually answer it at some point.At our table they can roll again. This option has never been taken up, as far as I can remember.
The limitation is the fact that we enjoy the randomised method. As I said, it's never been taken up (as far as I remember, anyhow). One of my favourite characters "lucky" had nothing greater than an eleven.
Randomisation is a different approach - you don't go in with a concept of "stats I'd like". Nor with a character concept (i think that's why I had no idea what orfamay quest was referring to with his various "why force me to play a character I don't like?" lines of attack). You roll stats first and start playing (in the sense of making decisions/choices) from there.
The functional difference is the occasional nudge towards a character concept you'd never before considered. Or the effort in making something lousy work as well as you can. It's hard to do that using point buy (although you can determine values then randomly assign them - my personal version of orfamay quest's solution, proffered above).
I am glad my CotCT DM let us roll ability scores instead of point buy, or else my wizard would be SOL. Why? Because she ended up taking levels in fighter when she reached level 6 due to nearly dying to some naga poison. If I would have followed one of the wizard guides, I wouldn't have been able to effectively be a fighter (dumping Str to 7) and going into eldritch knight.Well, given that you rolled your stats, you were much more likely to have had a mediocre or low strength score and thus wouldn't have been able to create the character you're now playing. Anyone who wants to play an edritch knight is going to know full well that they can't dump Strength and expect it to work, and is probably intelligent enough to know that advice that's given in a guide for a single-classed Wizard may not be entirely applicable to a gish.
That's the thing, though. I had all the intention to go full wizard, but failing a perception roll and then a bad streak of Fort saves against poison made me take a level in fighter, and then think about the prestige class. Her Str isn't the greatest (13), but she's a transmutation wizard, with the Physical Enhancement and Augment abilities, plus a belt of giant's strength +2. If I would have followed a guide to build a single class wizard (which was my intention all along), then I would be SOL trying to go with my current path.
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The only one trying to force the table to do things his way IS you Orfamay Quest. After all you said you would refuse any but ONE concept if the group wanted to roll and you didn't want to, making yourself into a problem player if the rolls didn't give you exactly what you wanted.
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It limits our number of rerolls. Anything more than zero is less fun (and therefore bad). It's a choice we've made, but nonetheless the rerolls are limited.
We limit our games by including what we enjoy and leaving out the rest.
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That's a "yes," then. The question will be ignored. After all, you just ignored it.
I don't think so.
IMO I answered your concern about forcing players to do something multiple times.I apologize if I did not get your point/ question but I also believe that I won't be able to explain myself and why I don't think someone is forced to do something in further posts if I haven't managed to do so by now.
Thanks to strayshift for his explanation and post.
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1) Why should you be forced? social pressure.
People are forced to do things they would not particularly like to do by social pressure all the time. If 5 of your friends want to see a certain movie, and you do not, you either cave to social pressure or you do not see the movie. If you want to argue that your friends should not see the movie because you do not want to see it, you will quickly find yourself without five friends. Similarly, as was pointed out by Arthun, if all but one member of the group are on board for trying rolled stats, you can either join in (being forced), not play that campaign, or you can injure your friendship by telling everyone that your singular desires override their shared desires. Maybe social pressure isn't fair, but it is real, and people either deal with it or do not participate.
2A) What is the benefit of rolled stats? Point-buy is an exercise in system mastery
If you use point buys, there exists the fact that there is an "optimal" choice for each class and each point buy. Either you will pick the optimal choice, and you will do well, or you will not, and somebody else could steal the spotlight. I guess in other words, point-buy suffers from explicitly being about character equality, but leading to rules enforced inequality. A MAD class will never be as good as a SAD class using point-buy. An experienced player playing a ranger will out-damage the new barbarian. The forums have many examples of players' optimizing putting the rest of their party to shame and making the game not as fun, and the point-buy system is the main enabler of that optimization.
2B) WHat is the benefit of rolled stats? Randomness -> creativity
When you come to the table with a concept already in mind, you have limited yourself. Not a bad thing per se, but certainly limiting, and these board show how often people showing up with a pre-conceived notion can lead to discomfort for everyone involved (But I want to play a gunslinger/paladin/asimar/ninja). If you show up with only a set of dice and an open mind, you will not be setting yourself up to clash with the GM.rest of party, but you might even discover a concept that you would not have considered before. Unless you roll supremely well, you will not have an optimized array for any given class. So lets say you roll STR13 DEX14 CON12 INT15 WIS9 CHA8: what class do I want to be, or what race? Nothing fits perfectly. Even on these forums there were a number of answers to this question: ranger, magus, wizard, witch, ranged fighter. None of them are 100% ideal, and that is fine, because (excepting some very lucky people) no one will have an ideal stat distribution for their character.f
I see the benefits to rolled stats in terms of enjoying randomness, or lower averages, or whatever else. I understand why some players like it. I personally do not, but I have also seen a probably mathematically unlikely amount of the following:
"My stats were pretty good: 14, 12, 11, 11, 15, 16. What about you?"
"I rolled awesome! 18, 18, 17, 16, 14, 12!"And that always made me feel like my options were limited. I now had to play something very niche to avoid my character being outshined by the guy who rolled improbably high. I don't like feeling like the sidekick to someone else's hero. Other people might not get that feeling, but I do.
Two points:
1. Hold a character design session where everyone rolls together. Improbably high becomes a lot less probable with some players. You also discuss your PARTY as a balanced entity and your role in it, not as a sidekick, but as a key component.
2. It is up to the DM to ensure 'equity of story' prominence and time, that isn't about stats, its about your character narrative.
This is one of the reasons why I have ALWAYS pleaded for a character creation session for any group I was playing in. It is just one day of not playing backed up by a group that fits together from day one. No need to find a wild reason why a Paladin and a Necromancer would team up, all those issues would have been settled before the characters were even finished.
And while that second set, that one in a billion set, DOES happen on a rare occasion be happy for your team mate. Their primary stat will have a +1 modifier over yours... so what? SO that means they can jump into a more MAD class and not be overshadowed by the team. Sure they can be a heavy hitter. Is that bad? Do you have to always be top dog? Can't he be top dog this time? And why not just play a different concept than him if his slightly higher bonuses bother you? Then you need not be the under dog at all.
2. That's fine, theoretically. But I don't want to play a character where the DM has to hand-craft a situation where my character is more useful than the guy who's better at everything than everyone. And yes, if a guy rolls that well at character, it is VERY easy for him to be better at everything than everyone.
Of course, some people also really don't mind that style of play and that's fine. Some people appreciate the fact that there's a Hercules and Ieolus vibe to their adventures. It just doesn't work for me.
That bolded part I disagree with. You simply can't create a character who can do everything better. Concept is based on FAR more than stats.
Hercules and Ieolus is never what you end up with even if they both play fighters. It's more like a seasoned veteran running with a regular GI. Sure the veteran can do all his fighty stuff a little better than the regular guy and if you don't like it then just try out an alternate concept that won't be overshadowed.