RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Why do magic item slots only generate items up to the base value of the settlement? The base value means you can already get items up to that value 75% of the time, so who really cares if you have a specific item there that is under the base value?
In the core rulebook, a city has extra items that represent what you can buy there that's above the base value (at least above it most of the time), so shouldn't the magic item slots in kingdom building be for the same purpose?
The rules for building a kingdom don't work like city rules because the type of game is different. For the kingdom rules it is assumed you are growing a kingdom. If you want higher value items it is encouragement for you to improve your kingdom.
When you are in a normal campaign the rules allow for a city to randomly generate higher value items so you can have access to certain things.
A kingdom based game deals with more details and that is one of the things that comes with it. I am not saying it would break the game, but I understand why it is done that way.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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yes, but what good does a magic item slot actually provide in the kingdom making rules? The base value itself is defined the same way as the core rulebook
"The base value of a settlement is used to determine what magic items may easily be purchased there. There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale in the settlement with little effort. The base value of a new settlement is 0 gp. Certain buildings
(such as a Market or Tavern) increase a settlement’s base value. A settlement’s base value can never increase above the values listed in Table 4–5: Settlement Size and Base Value (except under special circumstances decided by the GM)."
So, what is the purpose of the item slots then? Having your 75% chance of finding things under the base value is already incentive enough to increase your kingdom and base value.
yes, but what good does a magic item slot actually provide in the kingdom making rules? The base value itself is defined the same way as the core rulebook
"The base value of a settlement is used to determine what magic items may easily be purchased there. There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale in the settlement with little effort. The base value of a new settlement is 0 gp. Certain buildings
(such as a Market or Tavern) increase a settlement’s base value. A settlement’s base value can never increase above the values listed in Table 4–5: Settlement Size and Base Value (except under special circumstances decided by the GM)."So, what is the purpose of the item slots then? Having your 75% chance of finding things under the base value is already incentive enough to increase your kingdom and base value.
In case your 75% roll fails. Yeah it is less than under a normal adventure, but that is not the same as no benefit at all.
I came to make the exact post that JoelF847 did after I read page 213.
The argument seems pretty sound to me. Why should my players bother creating magic item shops if all they can do is match what's in the base value of the settlement?
I plan to reverse this rule for exceeding the settlement's base value in my games. The magic item slots will always exceed the value, acting like the extra items in settlements in the Core Rulebook.
Also this means, even a major magic item slot will NEVER create a item worth more then 16.000 gp (Base Value Cap).
This is why I removed this rule from my game. I think with the magic item changes (no selling, frreing slots only by buying or manipulation etc.) the magic item economy is nerfed enough :D
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It amuses me that people are fiddling with this rule because it doesn't allow them to generate expensive random items, when one of the biggest complains about the original system in Kingmaker is it allowed PC rules to randomly generate really expensive items by building magic shops in settlements. :)
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Heh. The way I think I would edit this rule is that magic item slots can only be filled up to next available size category. A Small Town's magic items could get up to 2,000gp as per a Large Town. Once a town hit Metropolis category, I wouldn't cap it. I would also mix this with Ultimate Rulership's smaller population/lot size rules.
An argument could probably be made for 2 size categories greater. (Small Town to Small City). When it hit Large City, cap it at 50k or maybe 100k. Still no cap at Metropolis. Just my own ideas, a nice median between "Every item can show up at any time, rush magic item slots!" and "My city will almost never be able to fill up its Major Magic Item slots." It makes it less enticing to rush magic item slots until your city can support them and makes it slightly more organic in feel, atleast to me.
IF I would have any cap on the Magic Item Slots, I would do it at 25% of WBL OR city Base Value, which ever is greater.
Just some ideas.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It amuses me that people are fiddling with this rule because it doesn't allow them to generate expensive random items, when one of the biggest complains about the original system in Kingmaker is it allowed PC rules to randomly generate really expensive items by building magic shops in settlements. :)
I think that was in part combined with the rules for selling magic items for BP. Now that Ultimate Campaign doesn't allow that, I don't see any downside.
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What happens if i have a building that gives me a magic item slot but my Base Value is not high enough to generate one? For example, in KM we have filled a district on our first city and the last 4 ones were for building a Waterfront. This has gave us a Base Value for a total of 6500 and 1 Major Wondrous Item. Except that the most cheap Major Item to get is a pair of Dimensional Shackles (http://paizo.com/prd/magicItems/wondrousItems.html#_wondrous-items) , which are worth 28000 gp...way over our value and even the top 16000 limit for a Metropolis.
I have two related questions about some ambiguous wording:
1. When emptying magic items slots by making Economy checks to pass them off to passing NPCs, is the -1 Economy decrease intended to be a permanent thing, or just a cumulative penalty for that Income phase when trying to dispose of a lot of items all at once?
2. On p. 212 it says that a settlement's base value can never increase above the values in Table 4-5. One line earlier, it says that certain buildings increase a settlement's base value. Assuming that Table 4-5 is where base values are set, this means that these buildings are 'special circumstances' that can exceed the values in the table?
thanks
Karl
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Re: #1, permanent. It's like other permanent modifiers you might get-- e.g. in Kingmaker, you get some permanent bonuses based on where you choose to found your capital city. The only way to overcome the permanent modifier from trying to sell too much magic too fast is just to do other things that grow your economy.
Re: #2, no. The max for a settlement size is the max the base value can ever be. It might be lower than that max, however. You have to put in buildings that increase the base value in order to get it to approach that max value.
Thread necro:
This rule is extremely mind-numbingly stupid, and runs completely counter to the standard settlement rules.
Also, it really annoys me when I look through these forums and find snark from a dev. Too many magic items was only a problem when they could be farmed for BP. Now that that's gone, this is a completely unnecessary kneecap to item purchasing.
I mean... how the hell is any character supposed to buy a major magic item EVER? I'm not saying it should be like freakin' high-level Walmart... but it makes sense that one or two big-time items should be on offer.
DM HANDWAVE
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Perhaps the most common house rule in the Ultimate Campaign rules is to allow settlement magic items to exceed the gp value for the settlement.
As mentioned, this was altered as a double-whammy (alongside no selling items for BP) to reduce runaway economies, but many people consider it a step too far.
Now, if you do houserule it (and most GMs will, and indeed should, in my opinion), one word of advice: be ruthlessly and scrupulously impartial on randomly determining the items to go in the slots. Never succumb to "ugh, another potion, boring, I'll roll again". If it gets rolled, it goes in the slot. It's up to the players to decide whether to clear that slot for something else. Remember, there's only a 50% chance per district that one slot in that district will be filled each month. It can take quite a while for slots to get filled.
Perhaps the most common house rule in the Ultimate Campaign rules is to allow settlement magic items to exceed the gp value for the settlement.
As mentioned, this was altered as a double-whammy (alongside no selling items for BP) to reduce runaway economies, but many people consider it a step too far.
Now, if you do houserule it (and most GMs will, and indeed should, in my opinion), one word of advice: be ruthlessly and scrupulously impartial on randomly determining the items to go in the slots. Never succumb to "ugh, another potion, boring, I'll roll again". If it gets rolled, it goes in the slot. It's up to the players to decide whether to clear that slot for something else. Remember, there's only a 50% chance per district that one slot in that district will be filled each month. It can take quite a while for slots to get filled.
Absolutely agreed. Now the only thing I'm using base value for is for settlement quality bonuses like Strategic Location. Tempted to have base value set as a minimum (some of the kingdom's cities have ZERO base value... which strains credulity).
May I suggest taking a look at Ultimate Rulership from Legendary Games? Written by Jason Nelson who did the original post-Kingmaker design on the Kingdom rules, it offers a veritable plethora of expanded options that are compatible with the core Kingdom rules. One of those options is a minimum gp base value for a settlement of a given size.