*Sees Animal Archive*
Damiel gets attacked by an animal companion.
*Sees Ultimate Campaign*
Damiel not only get locked for punishment in a wooden stand, but he also gets expelled from negative fame.
These are the only times he screwed, but there might be more. The other iconics don't get that much into trouble... so why Damiel in particular? Is he ditzy, careless, inexperienced?
Wisdom is his dump stat.
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Someone has to be the Butt Monkey.
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I think alchemists have the whole "mad scientist" rap going against them. It's entirely unfair, and has to do with the fact that our main class features revolve around blowing things up/stabbing people in the back and mutating ourselves into brutish freaks a la Jekyll/Hyde.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to plan my November 5th celebrations.
Maybe it's a way to subtly say "Don't play alchemists."
I am just as curious as you are about this. Is there an inside joke I am not aware of?
Sometimes when the same character is repeatedly in a bad position in the art, its an inside joke relating to the company. If I remember right the fighter in 3.5 specifically had this issue.
On the other hand, I feel like several of the APG classes are uncared for in the long run of things so it may actually be them saying "Lol we hate them". Obviously I wouldn't know.
Yeah, Regdar was loathed by the dev team at 3.5. He was 'forced' on them and the art dept...the iconic fighter was supposed to be the dwarf.
They got back at him by killing him or placing in severe danger/harm every chance they could.
==Aelryinth
Valeros is in danger in numerous pieces through the CRB.
Valeros is in danger in numerous pieces through the CRB.
The plot against fighters continues...
At first I wanted to say that it seems simply like Damiel has more illustrations where he's made to look 'foolishly in trouble' as opposed to just in danger... Then I started thinking maybe its just that Damiel has the most varied and most appropriate expressions for all of the situations he's depicted in...
Then I thought of poor Harsk in the taxation section of UCamp.
While Feiya and Lirianne are my favorite eye candy, and I was somewhat disappointed with Lirianne's choice for naming her business (I thought a tavern named the 'Called Shot' with a gun and a shotglass might be more appropriate....), poor pouty hangdog Harsk takes the top spot in my favorite Hardcover illustration so far, hands down.
Hey, let's just be glad that Balazar the Summoner actually gets some artwork. I haven't seen him in anything since the APG. No summoner love :(
I read on the forums somewhere that Ezren was the model used in the belt of genderchange illustration. I have yet to find that illustration. I think it would be badass.
Hey, let's just be glad that Balazar the Summoner actually gets some artwork. I haven't seen him in anything since the APG. No summoner love :(
Both he & his Eidolon get a pretty nice picture in Champions of Purity.
Also, Damiel is on the cover of 'Fey Revisited'.
Getting himself in trouble again...
As long as this doesn't turn into Alchemists in Refrigerators.
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Lets not forget when he also accidentally freezes Valeros in Ultimate Equipment. Honestly I feel that Alchemists are just so easy to make fun of because they have the greatest combination of risky factors: they intake chemicals and play with bombs and knives. Simply walking next to one would probably set most people on edge, especially when they hear the inevitable sound of "oops!"
I am just as curious as you are about this. Is there an inside joke I am not aware of?Sometimes when the same character is repeatedly in a bad position in the art, its an inside joke relating to the company. If I remember right the fighter in 3.5 specifically had this issue.
On the other hand, I feel like several of the APG classes are uncared for in the long run of things so it may actually be them saying "Lol we hate them". Obviously I wouldn't know.
Reminds me of Champions 4e where all the good books had Seeker unconscious, or about too be, so if Seeker wasn't sucking, you knew not to buy it.
As for the APG classes being uncared for, I'm not so sure whether it's that the development team cares for the classes any less, but rather that the Core classes (plus Seityiel) have been in the APs and Modules, and pretty much everything, since the beginning. They have some familiarity behind them. When people see Valeros, they know Valeros, whereas Damiel and Feiya for example, haven't had as long to make an impact. Some have had a little more ability to get their characters out there, such as Alain, because he's the guy you want to punch in the face when you see him, but I'd say a lot of it has to do with the sheer amount of time the others have been around.
Lets not forget when he also accidentally freezes Valeros in Ultimate Equipment. Honestly I feel that Alchemists are just so easy to make fun of because they have the greatest combination of risky factors: they intake chemicals and play with bombs and knives. Simply walking next to one would probably set most people on edge, especially when they hear the inevitable sound of "oops!"
Yeah, I'd have to agree. Alchemists, especially PF Alchemists, are every breed of mad scientist in one. Both figuratively and literally, they are a walking powderkeg of SCIENCE!!! so when you need to find things to go bad, Alchemists are the easy go-to. Also, with the Wisdom dump-stat, it's easy to play them off as being the Absent-Minded Professor, except their absent-mindedness happens to strike, just as they realize they forgot to check the alchemists' fire they were brewing, and accidentally left it next to the day's supply of bombs, and the highly volatile swath of potions he had been brewing.
The reason why Damiel is a great pick for the bad reputation and infamy is because of his backstory. His experimentation lead to a Hyde-like alter ego that murdered a bunch of people. That's why he left home and is now an adventurer. Or, something like that. It's been a while since I read about the iconics.
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/tags/iconics/meetTheIconics
Sounds like Damiel has a terminal case of Lovecraft Syndrome. He's hit a lot of the tropes. I'm just surprised that he wasn't trading letters with unusually old sages while in his Alchemist's Guild, or perusing books of forbidden formulae. It explains the animals, though -- they tend to hate anything with a sense of 'Other' about it. On the bright side, the undead probably weren't going to kill him -- just carry him off for yet more nefarious purposes. Perhaps he's secretly a lost scion of Nemret Noktoria?
He'll probably be the first iconic to tangle with Denizens of Leng once they get a bigger spotlight. Will he be quaking in the corner as a Denizen cooks an indeterminate stew? Or will they show him clinking glasses with a turbaned merchant before anything is amiss?
Lets not forget when he also accidentally freezes Valeros in Ultimate Equipment. Honestly I feel that Alchemists are just so easy to make fun of because they have the greatest combination of risky factors: they intake chemicals and play with bombs and knives. Simply walking next to one would probably set most people on edge, especially when they hear the inevitable sound of "oops!"
Alchemists: The Kender of Pathfinder!
Damiel has a proclivity towards getting into situations that could and often do go bad for him due to the nature of his profession, gathering materials, and otherwise needing to be places that are unwise (though the Death by Shadow bit also gave a chance to show him Jeckyl and Hyde-ing without going all mutagenic - notice the shadow spawned from his form and its pose).
Valeros tends to frequently be in bad situations because he's Valeros, and a follower of Cayden, and an adrenaline junkie.
Seltyiel gets into a world of excrement on a recurring basis because he's the Token Evil Woobie, which requires him being abused on a regular basis.
Let's not start insulting Kender, ok.
We don't really need to. It reminds me of a Looney Tunes quote ...
"I don't need you to make me look like an idiot!"
"No, Sam, you definitely don't ..."
Don't forget Lem; he was Paizo's original punching bag!
Seriously, he gets attacked by giant mosquitoes in one of the Bestiaries, he gets his mouth removed in Ultimate Magic, he gets rejected by a teenage lover in Ultimate Campaign, and I'm pretty sure there's a book where there's art of him being flat-out dead and gone with arrows sticking out of his corpse floating around somewhere.
Sajan, the Iconic Monk, gets into a lot of trouble too. There's a Bestiary Art of him being crushed alive by a snake, getting lost in the woods with the iconic Druid (the horror!), but worse of all, the art of his twin sister, which was previewed by Jason Bulhman, was CUT from Ultimate Campaign! Now that's a low blow ....
Don't forget Lem; he was Paizo's original punching bag!
Seriously, he gets attacked by giant mosquitoes in one of the Bestiaries, he gets his mouth removed in Ultimate Magic, he gets rejected by a teenage lover in Ultimate Campaign, and I'm pretty sure there's a book where there's art of him being flat-out dead and gone with arrows sticking out of his corpse floating around somewhere.
Yep, Gamemastery Guide on the section about PC Death.
Sajan, the Iconic Monk, gets into a lot of trouble too. There's a Bestiary Art of him being crushed alive by a snake, getting lost in the woods with the iconic Druid (the horror!), but worse of all, the art of his twin sister, which was previewed by Jason Bulhman, was CUT from Ultimate Campaign! Now that's a low blow ....
As a fan of Sajan and his background story, I'd be interested to know if I can still see artwork of his sister anywhere, even if it was cut from Ultimate Campaign. Got a link?
EDIT: Ah, nevermind, seems there's this thing called a search box, and I found it here.
Didn't valeros die in Ultimate Magic Chapter 3
There are illustrations of iconics getting killed and/or tortured in Demons Revisited...
p.4: Seltyiel about to be gutted by a babau.
p.10: Merisiel about to be lashed by a balor's fire whip.
p.16: Lini in a cage weeping as a glabrezu dangles Droogami's corpse before her.
p.22: Ezren tied to a demonic idol as a drooling hezrou stands, about to bite his head off.
p.28: Lirianne, possessed by a shadow demon, blows Seelah's brains out.
p.34: Valeros losing a swordfight to a marilith.
p.40: A collapsed Feiya's life energy draining out through her eyes to a nabasu.
p.46: Sajan getting mauled by a nalfeshnee.
p.52: Kyra's life essence being drained away by the kiss of a succubus.
p.58: A prone and weaponless Harsk pinned by a vrock on the edge of a cliff.
No Damiel there!
There's a thread floating about for which iconic is the biggest punching bag. It'll probably need an update once the ACG comes out....
We often put our iconics into dangerous situations in our artwork. I'm not aware of any plans to do so more often to Damiel than we do to anyone else.
To tell the truth, you've put Valeros through far worse. Including an errant bomb from Daniel.