How Do You Feel About Spoilers: A General Survey*


Gamer Life General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
kmal2t wrote:
You rewatch a movie because you like a certain scene or lines from the movie or whatever. Same with a book..but an RPG campaign? What is it that's so great you want to redo all of it? Are there certain descriptions you liked or characters? I don't get what would draw you to do a whole campaign over again when there's no surprise about the stops on the traintrack.

I will run Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment as many times as I can, and would gladly play in it too. Because every party is different, and every group of players will act it out differently.

I went to see Beauty and the Beast, as well as the Lion King, on stage despite having watched the movies. I knew the story, but I went to see it retold.

An RPG campaign has the added benefit of the story being told in different ways, through different player choices. Scenes will go different because while you had the LG aasimar paladin diplomacizing the first time, the second time you had the CN gnome rogue insulting.

I have run Shackled City twice, and tried to start it at least twice more. Every time is a different experience.

You think knowing the railroad stops means the sights are unsurprising the next time you visit them. That is not true.


What you are talking about is something different. As the GM obviously you know all the railroad stops and you get entertainment from seeing the different ways Players react to them. This is true on the first time you run the adventure. But as a player? Would I want to go back and redo what we've done on RotRL up to 3rd level? Why would I?

RotR

Spoiler:
Am I going to sit there and pretend I don't know the goblins are about to attack the festival? Or that Tetso (sp) is waiting to kick our ass in the Glassworks? Or that there's pain in the ass briar we need to get to to get to Thistletop?

There's a difference between a movie that you watch for your favorite scenes and lines and being in the story destined to repeat the same destiny over again when I have the option to go on other new adventures.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
kmal2t wrote:
What you are talking about is something different.

Not appreciably.

I told you I would play Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment again. Obviously you would not.

As to pretending you don't know what's going to happen? Yes, you are going to do that. Because your character doesn't know. And you are roleplaying that character. Not roleplaying yourself inserted into the campaign. (Non-specific you, not you personally.)


You said you would do it, but have you run through a whole campaign as a player over again and now say you think it's awesome?

And I find that to be way more player knowledge than I want to have about what's going on. I don't want to constantly have to consider whether I'm metagaming when I know every step of the way. Just the same way I don't buy a Monster Manual and read through every monster and I don't go buy a bunch of APs and read through them all.

I may devote 2 hours to rewatch a movie I haven't seen in a while because the acting was good or there was a great ending..but to actively devote like 300? hours of my time to propel forward a narrative that I already know everything that's going to happen..all the monsters, traps and plot twists? I just don't get it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
kmal2t wrote:
You said you would do it, but have you run through a whole campaign as a player over again and now say you think it's awesome?

Since I DM most of the time, and haven't had a steady group for more than a year or two, I haven't had the chance.

kmal2t wrote:
I just don't get it.

Clearly. You wouldn't be naysaying otherwise.


I'm awaiting a persuasive argument to convince me otherwise.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

To persuade you of what? That other people enjoy different things than you? Nobody is trying to claim that you should enjoy it.


I agree that RPG adventures are very different from most forms of media in this regard, as the story and the people you play with will likely unfold differently from time to time.

But as for spoilers in general, I wouldn't want to watch, say, Scream or Fight Club for the first time already knowing the plot twists, or the original Star Wars movies for the first time already knowing who Darth Vader was, or watch/read pretty much any detective novel/movie without the added excitement of trying to figure out who did it and how they did it before it's revealed.

Yes, I'll watch them (or read them) again, and enjoy them every time (if they were really good), but there's no way to get the unspoilered first-time-viewing experience again.

And I know spoilers can ruin someone's movie-viewing experience when watching that movie for the first time. My sister had Scream's plot revealed to her after only a few minutes of the movie by her "friend" who helpfully told her, which completely ruined the movie for her. Similar things have happened to me, too, although I can't come up with an example right now.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
kmal2t wrote:
I'm awaiting a persuasive argument to convince me otherwise.

I'm not going to provide one. I'm only perceiving you stating that I cannot possibly enjoy it and responding with that in mind.


I have to keep my mouth shut during movies, because they're mostly so alike that it's easy to guess the "surprise endings" and "plot twists" unless you actively try not to. To pick two popular examples:
1. I'm sitting there watching The Usual Suspects for the first time, and said to my friend (about 1/2 way through):

Spoiler:
"I'm totally going to laugh when it turns out to be Steve Buscemi!"
.
2. In the screening of The Crying Game, I interjected, right when the love interest is introduced:
Spoiler:
"Ugh! That's the ugliest woman I've ever seen! She's got a freaking Adam's apple!"

If you can watch just about any movie, you can play a spoilered adventure.


Are wrote:
Yes, I'll watch them (or read them) again, and enjoy them every time (if they were really good), but there's no way to get the unspoilered first-time-viewing experience again.

This is true, but I dont actually enjoy the unspoilered experience as much as I enjoy it when I know the story in advance.

This is definitely true in live theatre (a field where I used to work and so I approach them with a more technical eye), but is also true of movies and novels, especially of the mystery/whodunnit variety. Partly it's because my first reaction on 'the big reveal' is to run the movie back to try and work out if there were any clues and/or inconsistencies earlier - it takes me out of the movie far more than when I'm watching it with preknowledge of where the story's heading.


Steve Geddes wrote:
To persuade you of what? That other people enjoy different things than you? Nobody is trying to claim that you should enjoy it.

Yes. This is exactly what persuasion is all about. Nailed it.


Steve Geddes wrote:
Are wrote:
Yes, I'll watch them (or read them) again, and enjoy them every time (if they were really good), but there's no way to get the unspoilered first-time-viewing experience again.
This is true, but I dont actually enjoy the unspoilered experience as much as I enjoy it when I know the story in advance.

Interesting. People are different, I suppose :)


kmal2t wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
To persuade you of what? That other people enjoy different things than you? Nobody is trying to claim that you should enjoy it.
Yes. This is exactly what persuasion is all about. Nailed it.

Okay, well here goes:

I enjoy some things you dont like and dont enjoy some things you do (based on your preferences alluded to above and the fact I dont share those views).

Believe me?


Why would I not believe that you like certain things and I like certain things...what does that have to do with persuasion?


kmal2t wrote:
I'm awaiting a persuasive argument to convince me otherwise.
kmal2t wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
To persuade you of what? That other people enjoy different things than you?
Yes.

As requested - I was persuading you that other people enjoy different things than you.


1) Agree, a lot. I think? Whichever is the 'spoilers doesn't bother me' answer. :)

Spoilers generally doesn't affect my ability to enjoy something at all. Granted, an RPG plot might be different from a movie or book, if I'm supposed to puzzle things out. But I've played scenarios where I already knew the plot (we ran through some of our old-school CoC scenarios recently) and it wasn't a problem. It just changes the overall feel of the session (less focus on detective work and more focus on how horrible it is to be a normal guy thrust into a CoC plot).

*reads*

2) Didn't change my opinion at all. I don't think spoilers really affect my enjoyment in either a positive or negative way.

Of course, given the recent Game of Thrones events, I do have to say: People who haven't been spoiled are infinitely more amusing to watch by those of us who know what's coming. :)


I am usually the GM, and I'm also a person who enjoys reading modules for fun, so it's hard for me to play in a published adventure/AP that I haven't read, but I find I don't really care. I'm playing in a CotCT game right now - I've read the entire adventure path cover to cover in the past, but I'm still having a great time playing it. There are obviously details I don't remember, and I wouldn't pick it back up and read it as we are playing through it, but it doesn't bother me at all that I already know the plot. I don't act on my player knowledge in game.

Movies and TV are a little different for me. I prefer to go into my first viewing unspoiled, but I also enjoy rewatching a quality movie or show even after I know what happens. I've watched the entire 7 season run of The Shield 4 times, and loved it every time, although I practically know the plots by heart. For some movies (Fight Club is a perfect example), the second viewing is almost like watching a completely different movie, where I try to see the clues that I missed, look for whether the movie "plays fair" with the twist, and watch scenes with a completely different mindset (I found I had a lot more sympathy for Helena Bonham Carter's character the second time through).

Grand Lodge

Kirth Gersen wrote:


1. I'm sitting there watching The Usual Suspects for the first time, and said to my friend (about 1/2 way through):** spoiler omitted **.

But you were wrong,...

Spoiler:
It isn't Steve Buscemi; it's Kevin Spacey.

;)
Who is Kaiser Soze?!


W E Ray wrote:
But you were wrong,... ** spoiler omitted **

"You know... the funny-looking one!"

But, yeah, him.


Rynjin wrote:
Coriat wrote:
1) If a story isn't worth reading when you know the ending, then it probably isn't worth reading when you don't, in my opinion.
Mystery novels must vex you to no end.

Not that much to be honest. I'm not super into mystery novels in general, although an ex used to love mystery books on tape and I would listen with her. I didn't think it was a problem to hear the good ones twice, and neither did she. And I certainly have no trouble giving a second watching to movies like The Maltese Falcon or Chinatown.

But yeah... any book I am devoting my attention to reading, ought to offer more than merely satisfying the urge to find out what happens in the end. Even if it is a mystery story, if it's not just using that urge to cover for a lack of other merits, then I won't mind knowing the ending. ;)


I have to admit that I am completely torn on this one.

Love nothing more than a story (or a DM ;)) that can make me go "Waitwaitwait...whaaaat?" on a regular basis. I love being surprised, I love things that I could never have thought of myself. Part of the reason I got into RPGs.

On the other hand, spoilers do have a tendency to imrpove a scene from an acting/drama point of view. Players have a tendency to get so stuck in the 'WTF' that the subsequent scene is not as good as it could be. Basically the scene becomes about the reactions of the player, not the character.
Not necessarily bad, but I don't mind spoilers every now and then because it gives me time to think about how my character would react to that situation. And then I can try to steer the scene in more dramatic directions.

I think I like a good mix of surprises and pondering time. Usually fellow players tell me stuff, so I have spoilers on their character's identities en motivations but none or hardly any on the story itself.

Apart from my regular CoC campaign where the ST has a tendency to start spoilering when he's had too much to drink, and since he is my regular bar buddy I sometimes have to remind him I don't want to know all that stuff ;).

The Exchange

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Spoilers are no fun, whatsoever. They decimate the fun, IMO.

I DO agree that when playing an adventure, having *some* knowledge of some *very limited* aspects of the adventure can help a player construct a character that better suits an adventure.

That's why, when I GM, I will talk with a player during character creation and work things out with him/her while giving minimal details. For example, let's say that I know an adventure is going to be about a city where racial tension is brought to a boiling point when a mysterious figure who claims allegiance with one of the races murders victims of the other racial group.

And now let's say a player wants to play a paladin. I will suggest several ideas for him/her to build the character around - for example, "Your paladin will suit this adventure very well if he belonged to race X, the dominant race in the city, but actually took up arms to defend the members of the lower cast in the city, race Y", or maybe "The paladin could also be related to noble family Z" (without even telling the player why, knowing for myself that a member of the family will be murdered, making the paladin face her need for revenge against her strict code of justice).

There is very little need to actually spoil plot points in order to tie a character to a coming adventure - furthermore, actually *reading ahead* is just going WAAAY too far with the idea.

There are far more subtle ways to achieve the things that the linked blog post aims for, instead of actually reading ahead in the AP. If anyone is using the arguments there as reasons to spoil an adventure for themselves, that means they probably just want the spoilers anyway and are finding ways to convince themselves it's about something other than that. Well, it's not, but that doesn't make them damaged people or anything. Just means they like spoilers. That's cool.


Memento Mortis wrote:

Having the plot of an adventure spoiled for you (as a player) doesn't adversely affect the amount of fun you have at the table.

Step 1) Do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

Step 2) Read this post and the response comment. Did you change your mind?

*While I am honestly interested to know how gamers feel about spoilers (whether it's in their game materials, movies, books, or whatever), I would be remiss if I didn't admit that I'm one of the co-authors of the linked blog and that this is part of an effort of shameless self-promotion.

1. Sorta torn here. I really enjoy both, in D&D/Pathfinder. I'm usually DM, or co-DM at least, and as such know a wealth of information the other players don't. When co-DMing and running a PC, I use this information to help keep the group on track in bit more subtle way than the main DM having to use the DM bat (yes, our games our typically pretty railroady, and our group is fine with that). I am really starting to get the itch to just play a character for awhile, and not know anything about the plot ahead of time.

In other media, not so much. I don't like skipping ahead in books/movies/TV series. In fact, if I find out there is going to be a movie adapted from a book that I haven't read yet and it sounds interesting, I will not read the book as I often find the movies to be terrible by comparison. A recent example is Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. Yes, I realize that most feel the movie wasn't that great to begin with, but I would have found it enjoyable to watch had I not read the book first. Instead, I sat in the theater fuming about how bad they screwed it up, while my wife who hadn't read the book really enjoyed herself.

*reads blog*

2. No. Agree on the gaming example, but strongly disagree on the movie one. Had The Sixth Sense ruined for me when it came out because a friend decided to be a jerk. I really enjoy watching movies through a second time to see if I catch any hints/clues now that I know the ending, but prefer to go in blind.

Silver Crusade

1)I have not played any RPG's in 15 years and just started playing pathfinder. I throughly enjoy the fact that I know next to nothing about the monsters much less about the adventures.

So no I do not like spoilers i consider it cheating.

2) No


1) Depends. A little is OK, if the fun and "surprise" parts are spoiled, then it's bad.

For example, if I found out the Zoltar the wise betrays the party after they kill the dragon Zip, that's bad. But knowing that you will fight a lot of undead or Drow or constructs in a AP doesn't ruin it.

But then again, I can sit back and enjoy other people's enjoyment of the game, but that's a very different kind of enjoyment. I'm not actually enjoying the CONTENT myself, I'm enjoying that other people are enjoying themselves. <<< You can have both you know? You don't need to spoil your enjoyment of the content in order for other players to enjoy the AP.

2) No, doesn't change my opinion at all.

If someone told me about Keyser Soze before I saw the film, I'd be upset, there's no point in seeing the film anymore. Ask me how many times I've seen Usual Suspects. That's right, one time. For me, the movie is all about the surprise (which was great... for that one viewing).

If you have a good GM, he can actually give you a lot of hints about the surrounding area and things you might find without necessarily spoiling the entire AP and the fun/surprising parts.

I'm currently running Curse of the Crimson Throne and I'd like to think the surprises I have in store for them (different from the AP also) are going to be part of the fun.


1. Kind of. I find it fun knowing that a big thing is around the corner, but not knowing exactly what it is. But I do make sure to keep PC knowledge unconnected to player knowledge. For example, due to someone not tagging a spoiled post in the Advice section (not the RotRL section), I now know who the Skinsaw murderer dude is. And we just finished Book 1. So yeah, I kind of know a big deal thing. But my character doesn't. So I won't say "It's him/her! He/she's the murderer!" as soon as we see them.

2. Not really.

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