Game of Thrones for the Illiterate (aka, no book spoilers or information please)


Television

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I'd really like to discuss Game of Thrones (the show), and the existing Game of Thrones thread keeps getting choked with spoilers. Rather than try to keep fighting the tide in that thread, I figured I'd try and start a new thread with the express purpose of having a place to discuss the show without the risk of reading a casual reference to the Ninja Attack in Book 4 or the fact that Jon Snow is actually Kaiser Sose.

Just for the sake of clarity, stating that character X eats pumpkins in King's Landing in the future is a spoiler - part of the charm/horror of this show is the fact that any character can die at any time. Knowing that character X survives to eat pumpkins at King's Landing takes away the edge from any potential life-threatening scene featuring character X, and those references should be avoided at all costs.

To help keep this thread on topic and safe for consumption, I'd recommend flagging any post that includes a book spoiler as being off-topic.

If you're looking for a thread with a mix of book and television spoilers, I'd recommend this one here:

Sean Bean heads cast for HBOs A Game of Thrones

Thanks for your cooperation.

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Re: Roose Bolton...

Spoiler:

Who the f&&* is he? I've heard his name mentioned, and I know he was the a@!!!&~ in chainmail at the wedding, but I can't really remember what he's done in the show prior to that. Is he the guy who let Jamie go back to King's Landing? Has he done anything else of substance? Every time I hear his name, it's from a reader of the books with a big hate-on for him, and I'm always afraid to ask for elaboration in case his follow up to the red wedding in the books is cutting off Tyrion's limbs and making quadriplegic jokes about him for the rest of the series.


I am responding to that spoiler with vague generalizations :-)

Yes, he is the guy that let him go.

He has appeared in other scenes in season 2 and 3 with Robb but because he did not do much of note except have discussions with Robb you probably did not pay much attention to him.

Roose Bolton:
He is also the character that "sent his bastard" back to Winterfell after it was sacked by Theon.


Do you know that *cough-cough* dies? Oops... I think that counts as a spoiler...


Sebastian wrote:

Re: Roose Bolton...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Roose Bolton is one of Robbs most powerful Bannerman. He leads a sizable force of men and is one of the more trusted commanders among robs forces. If you go back in the show, he turns up a fair number of times (though apparently often to snicker at Rob's wife).

Edit: Removed show spoiler.

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Sebastian wrote:

Re: Roose Bolton...

** spoiler omitted **

:
He's one of Robb's primary bannermen (at least he was until the Red Wedding). It was his people that captured Jaime and Brienne and cut Jaime's hand off, so Roose let Jaime go on the condition that Jaime tell Tywin that he had nothing to do with Jaime's maiming. On the show he's been seen hanging around Robb and giving him advice, and at Harrenhal letting Jaime go.

On an unrelated note, when playing an AGoT RPG before I had read the books, I decided to have my character come from House Bolton just because I thought Roose looked cool in the book. All of the other players just chuckled and then constantly smack talked my family. Uncle Roose is just misunderstood!

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Kolokotroni wrote:
Sebastian wrote:

Re: Roose Bolton...

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

FYI, there is a spoiler from the books under that spoiler tag. A piece of information in there hasn't been revealed on the show yet (though there have been hints).

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Re: Harrenhal

Spoiler:

When did Robb/Roose take Harrenhal? Wasn't that where Tywin was holed up before he arrived at King's Landing?

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

PulpCruciFiction wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Sebastian wrote:

Re: Roose Bolton...

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

FYI, there is a spoiler from the books under that spoiler tag. A piece of information in there hasn't been revealed on the show yet (though there have been hints).

Ack. Thanks for the heads up. I've seen a lot of speculation to that effect, but it is definitely a show spoiler at this point. Of course, it also means...

Spoiler:

The individual in question knows that Bran and Rickard are alive, which seems even worse now than it did just a while back.


Harrenhal:
Harrenhal is where Gregor Clegane (Twyin's Bannerman) and his crew were interrogating people about the Brotherhood Without Banners. Then Tywin came in and took control of the castle using as a forward base in the Riverlands. Tywin and his whole army left when he joined with the Tyrells to help defend King's Landing from Stannis.

Robb's and Bolton's Army attacked Harrenhal right hoping for a decisive victory against the Lannisters, but Twin had already moved his forces and it was undefended. The only thing remaining was all the dead Northerner Prisoners that Tywin left behind.

Robb left Bolton in charge of Harrenhal until Bolton left for the Wedding at the Frey's


PulpCruciFiction wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Sebastian wrote:

Re: Roose Bolton...

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

FYI, there is a spoiler from the books under that spoiler tag. A piece of information in there hasn't been revealed on the show yet (though there have been hints).

Was it? I thought that had been revealed. My apologies. I guess i was just thinking in regards to order of occurence in the story. But certain things are clearer in the books then in the show, and since I had read the books, I had thought it had been revealed in the show when they talked about the character in question in the show.

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Re: the minor book spoiler

Spoiler:

I suspect that the next episode/next time we see Theon, the show will reveal who is holding/torturing him. My understanding is that there is a timing difference in the book and show with regards to Theon's "adventures" - it seems like the books just didn't mention Theon for a long time, and my guess is that when the books did finally re-visit him, it was after the red wedding had already concluded. The show didn't want to have Theon be absent for almost the entire season, and thus we've had these bi-weekly torture check-ins where we learn very little and he suffers.

Re: Harrenhal

Spoiler:

Does anyone know when the show mentioned that Robb took Harrenhal? I think part of my confusion stems from the fact that I've read the first book, and (non-spoiler) Harrenhal is described as being a huge fortress that is well positioned to withstand a seige. I would've thought that taking it would be hard even if Tywin only left behind a small force to be a dick.


Harrenhal:

Episode 1 of Season 3. Tywin took all of his men with him to help King's Landing. Only ones left at Harrenhal were dead Northerner prisoners (and Qyburn was found alive).


Re: Harrenhal

** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:
It was in one of the early episodes in the season. Whatever episode they first found Qyburn (the Maester that treated Jaime and lost his chain for unethical experiments). If I recall it just kinda showed Rob and his army ride in to the Harrenhal courtyard, there wasn't much time spent on it.

Edit: Ninja'd by Tangible

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Thanks!

I find that in general this show requires a repeat viewing for me to get all the names/alliances/places straight.


Regarding Roose Bolton, it occurred to me that the Bolton sigil looks quite similar to Theon's torture cross. A coincidence or a tip-off as to his captors?

And thanks for creating the new thread, Sebastian. Us slow readers need a place we can call our own...


And as far as "the other thread" goes, it really didn't take long before the idea of identifying spoilers went straight out the window, did it?

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Wow, this thread is useful.

show spoiler

Spoiler:

I hadn't noticed that Roose Bolton had been present in previous episodes as part of the Stark bannermen / North forces, and felt like he was just thrown in at the last second this season, and that it was odd that people were reacting so extremely to his actions, as opposed to random dude with crossbow #5.

I also wouldn't have known anything about the bread and salt thing or remembered the rains of Castamere song (since that was a painfully boring bit of exposition that I tuned out the time it was mentioned), if it wasn't for people on line pointing them out.

Maybe I'm just irked for feeling like a dummy for missing all this stuff, but I wonder if maybe the writers of the show are making too many assumptions about fans having already read the books and leaving some narrative gaps in the show as a standalone experience...

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For Sebastian,

I swear on my honor as a Grognard that no spoilers follow but I shall add to what has already been discussed. Also these next few paragraphs reflect things that have happened in the tv series, there are some notable contradictions or deviations from the books.

On Roose Bolton

Season One

The banners of House Bolton are present when Robb is proclaimed King of the North.

Season Two

Roose fights for King Robb Stark in his decisive victory at the Battle of Oxcross.

The following morning Roose reports that they killed five Lannister men for every casualty they suffered. He expresses concern over the volume of prisoners they have taken, saying that they are struggling to feed their own men. Robb insists that the prisoners be treated well and rejects Roose’s suggestion that they torture the officers, reminding him that the Bolton’s traditional practice of flaying their enemies is actually outlawed in the North. (The sigil of House Bolton is the Flayed Man)

Roose warns Robb that the high road is pretty but difficult. Robb counters that he is treating his prisoners as he hopes the Lannisters will treat his sisters.

He later brings Robb and Catelyn Stark news of Winterfell's fall at the hands of the turncloak Theon Greyjoy. He reports that there is no news of Robb's brothers, but that Ser Rodrik Cassel has been killed. An enraged Robb declares that he must return north to retake his castle and save his brothers, but Roose counters that they have the Lannisters on the retreat, and must continue their offensive.

He tells the King that he can have his bastard son, Ramsay Snow, muster several hundred men to retake Winterfell. Robb relents, but orders that the safety of his brothers is paramount. Robb insists that Theon must be brought to him alive so he can inquire as to why he betrayed the North - and so that Robb can execute him personally.

Season Three so far

Roose, along with the rest of the Northern host arrives at Harrenhal, finding the ruined castle abandoned and the captives slain, save for a man in maester robes named Qyburn. While Robb and Talisa attend to the man's injuries, Roose discusses Jaime Lannister's escape with Rickard Karstark, and assures him that the dead will be avenged in time.

Messenger-ravens come to Harrenhal bearing news of Hoster Tully's death, and of Winterfell's destruction. Roose delivers the messages to Robb, who charges Bolton with holding Harrenhal with a portion of the Northern army, while he and the bulk of his forces ride for Riverrun.

Roose's minion, Locke, successfully recaptures Jaime Lannister, and delivers him to his Lord at Harrenhal. Roose is visibly angered at Jaime's mutilated state.

Roose negotiates with Jaime and Brienne over dinner. Bolton weighs up his options; bluntly informing his captives that the safest course of action would simply be to murder both of them, and discreetly dispose of their bodies. Although Jaime attempts to sway Roose by reminding him of the consequences of crossing his father, Roose is unperturbed at the prospect of having Lord Tywin as an enemy, as the war is keeping him fully occupied.

Ultimately Roose relents, agreeing to release Jaime, and return him safely to King's Landing on the condition that he inform his father that Bolton had no part in the loss of Jaime's hand. He also retains Brienne as a hostage, stating his intention to charge her with treason.

Afterwards, Roose arrives at The Twins to attend the wedding of Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey. However, he has been secretly plotting with House Frey to ultimately bring about the downfall of the Starks. During the wedding, Roose stays seated beside Lady Catelyn. She discovers his armor underneath his clothes, and strikes him, telling Robb to run. The Freys turn on the Starks, and begin firing crossbow bolts into the Stark men as well as stabbing several to death, Bolton flees the fall and returns later to stab Robb in the chest.

As Robb dies, Roose whispers in his ear, "The Lannisters send their regards".

Roose Bolton As Neutral Evil as they come

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For Sebastian,

I swear on my honor as a Grognard that no spoilers follow but I shall add to what has already been discussed. Also these next few paragraphs reflect things that have happened in the tv series, there are some notable contradictions or deviations from the books.

On Harrenhal

It is of course at Harrenhal that Jaqen H'ghar makes all his kills for Arya Stark.

Harrenhal is a huge castle, THE LARGEST one in all of Westeros, though it is also the most ill-omened. It is located on the northern shore of the Gods Eye lake at the heart of the Riverlands, south of the River Trident and northwest of King's Landing.

A Brief History

It was built centuries earlier by King Harren the Black. He was betrayed by his bannermen during the War of Conquest and the castle was largely melted by dragonfire: while Harren had thought the castle's walls were tall enough to withstand any assault, he neglected to consider that the Targaryens' dragons could fly right over them. As a result Harrenhal is more than half-ruined, with stone towers melted and twisted by the flames of the dragons, giving it an ominous and nightmarish appearance. No lord has held the castle for long since Harren's death.

Aegon the Conqueror granted Harrenhal to his bannermen of House Qoherys, which eventually became extinct. They were followed by Houses Towers, Harroway, Strong, and Lothston. All of them, like the Harren and Qoherys before them, DIED OUT, their noble lines ending, leading to the castle of be considered a cursed place.

Several tales are told of Harrenhal, including the tale of Mad Lady Lothston, the flaming ghosts of Harren and his sons, and of servants who go to sleep and are found turned to ashes the following day.

Harrenhal is seen as something of a white elephant: while it is technically the biggest castle in Westeros, it is so ridiculously large that the surrounding area cannot possibly produce the necessary food to support the massive army needed to fully man it. Rulers of Harrenhal usually lose money and resources simply by possessing it. As a result, Harrenhal is rarely if ever fully manned. Moreover, it was never fully repaired after being blasted with dragonfire by the Targaryens three hundred years ago, which combined with the fact that the garrison is never as large as the fortifications require, means that Harrenhal really isn't one of the most defensibly formidable castles in Westeros.

Harrenhal at the time of the tv series

Season One

Catelyn Stark recognises a knight of Harrenhal at the Crossroads Inn and asks him if he is loyal to Lady Whent and Catelyn's father, Whent's liege lord. When he replies this is the case, she asks his aid in restraining Tyrion Lannister and receives it.

By the time of the War of the Five Kings, Harrenhal was held by House Whent, until they were stripped of it and the castle was given to House Slynt as a reward for Janos Slynt's (commander of the City Guard) betrayal of Eddard Stark and ensuring Joffrey is made King of the Iron Throne.

However, due to the area being in the middle of a warzone, Slynt NEVER actually occupied the castle and was stripped of it when Janos Slynt was sent to the Wall by Tyrion Lannister.

Following the Lannister defeat at the Battle of the Whispering Wood, Lord Tywin Lannister announces that he will take his army of 30,000 men, capture Harrenhal and use it as the forward base for his army in the Riverlands while Robb Stark's numerically superior forces consolidate near Riverrun.

In Season 2, it is used as the main forward base for Tywin Lannister's army in the Riverlands during his campaign against Robb Stark. However, the Lannisters later withdraw their forces to defend King's Landing in the decisive Battle of the Blackwater.

Tyrion Lannister offers Harrenhal to Petyr Baelish along with lordship over all of the Riverlands in exchange for his aid in the release of Jaime Lannister.

After the Battle of the Blackwater, during an official ceremony King Joffrey grants Harrenhal to Lord Baelish for his aid in arranging the Lannister-Tyrell alliance.

At the beginning of Season 3 the abandoned castle is re-captured by the Northern army (in particular, Robb Stark's maternal grandmother was a Whent, so he actually has some direct claim to the castle), and Robb leaves a detachment of the Northern army under Roose Bolton to hold the castle.

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GregH wrote:
Regarding Roose Bolton, it occurred to me that the Bolton sigil looks quite similar to Theon's torture cross. A coincidence or a tip-off as to his captors?

Spoiler:
As a certain reformed Nazi Colonel Hans Landa said, 'That's a Bingo!'

-

Thanks for pointing that out GregH, I have been keeping my mouth shut regarding it for months now because I did not want to spoil it for others.

Coat of arms of House Bolton - Carnation, a flayed man affronté sanguine

Words of the House - 'Our Blades are Sharp'

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Quick question for everybody, and you are allowed seven seconds to think of the answer, then pencils down, honor system please.

Spoiler:
What is the Royal House currently holding the Iron Throne?


baron arem heshvaun wrote:


Quick question for everybody, and you are allowed seven seconds to think of the answer, then pencils down, honor system please.

** spoiler omitted **

Answer?:

Contrary to popular belief, Joffrey is (at least officially) not a Lannister. The King of Westeros is a Baratheon.

He doesn't have a lot of Baratheon people around him though.

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Set, have you ever actually listened to the words behind 'The Rains of Castamere'? (full version)

It is quite an elegant, though brutally foreboding song.

The Rains of Castamere was a song written about Lord Tywin Lannister's crushing victory over rebellious House Reyne of Castamere and the complete and utter destruction of the House, it's banner men, and all people associated with House Reyne at the end of their rebellion.

The title is thus a play on words, as the "rains" fall over the empty halls of the "Reynes" who have been killed to the last man.

The song is typically sung as a reminder of the fate that awaits those who cross Tywin Lannister, or the Lannisters of Casterly Rock in general.

The lyrics heavily reference the fact that the sigil of House Reyne was ALSO a lion, but a red one instead of the golden lion used as the sigil of House Lannister. The rebellion of the Reynes against the Lannisters was seen as a clash of lions.

Tyrion Lannister whistles it at least three times in the series, once as he enters the small council's chambers, announcing he is Hand of the King in his fathers name.

Bronn sings it before the Battle of Blackwater.

As the court gathers for Tyrion's wedding, Cersei finally snaps when Margaery says she looks radiant. Cersei reminds the queen-in-waiting of the lyrics of Rains of Castamere and to take a lesson of what happened to House Reyne. Cersei threatens to have Margaery strangled in her sleep if she ever refers to her as "sister" again.

It s played no less than three more times in full during the series, twice at the end of an episode.

Lyrics

Spoiler:

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that Lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

Listen to the version above, if that song is not a Lawful Evil song that has a version in Infernal, I don't know what is.


Set wrote:

Wow, this thread is useful.

[from spoiler but not a spoiler]
Maybe I'm just irked for feeling like a dummy for missing all this stuff, but I wonder if maybe the writers of the show are making too many assumptions about fans having already read the books and leaving some narrative gaps in the show as a standalone experience...

I think its more a limitation of the medium when changing from books to tv. Its ALOT more complicated to introduce characters in a show then a book. In a book you can give a brief description, their name, and describe an action, or put in a sentance of dialogue, and the readers have their information. You can have thousands of people with 'names' 'on screen' at a time without any realy issue.

In a book 'A tall balding man with a grey beard, Barns Rothworth, bannerman of house blundergert and husband of lady blinda blundergert stepped in some dog poo' has now introduced the character of Barns Rotherworth and described his place in the world, given a description and a familial relationship in one sentance. Do do the same in a tv show, he would have to speak, soemone would have to respond to him by name, and then in a later scene someone would actually have to SAY 'oh that guy? That was so and so, so and sos bannerman and his wife whats her name.' In order to do that you need not just the screen time to do it, but also a REASON to do it.

People dont just describe their relations with people in conversation unless someone in the conversation doesnt know the person. In a meeting of the lords of a land, who are literally schooled in the houses of their lands (the north) and of the whole region (westeros), theres far less need for such things. Robb knows who bolton is. So does his mother, and his other bannerman. No one needs it explained to them, so they cant just say it.

In addition the tv show doesnt have the benefit of a MASSIVE list of names, familial and fealty ties and current status as of the beggining of the story listed in the back of the books. I found myself refering to those ALOT when reading the books in order to help keep track.

The hbo series has tackled this in a couple ways (notably by combining some characters into one), by eliminating certain characters or just keeping them completely in the background, and by making some a little more prominent. But in the end, Martin's story is just to damned big to make everything perfectly clear to people not familiar with it. What they would need is like a 10 minute refreshed on the characters before every episode (along with the pretty map graphics) in order to keep people up to date on whats going on.

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baron arem heshvaun, you have done a great service to House Pwny, and your efforts will not be forgotten!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Set wrote:

Wow, this thread is useful.

show spoiler
** spoiler omitted **

I've had the exact same problem, which is part of why I wanted to start this thread - I wouldn't have known Roose Bolton from a hole in the ground if I hadn't seen his name mentioned so much in various GoT discussions (even those intended for non-book readers). As mentioned, I think this show requires a repeat viewing if you haven't read the books, but I don't necessarily think that's a flaw.


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
GregH wrote:
Regarding Roose Bolton, it occurred to me that the Bolton sigil looks quite similar to Theon's torture cross. A coincidence or a tip-off as to his captors?

** spoiler omitted **

Ok, I deserved that. I asked the question. Technically that was a book spoiler since it hasn't been shown in the series. But since you were responding to my question I'll take responsibility for that. Gotta keep my curiosity to myself :).

Greg


GregH wrote:
Ok, I deserved that. I asked the question. Technically that was a book spoiler since it hasn't been shown in the series. But since you were responding to my question I'll take responsibility for that. Gotta keep my curiosity to myself :).

That's what makes these kinds of threads tricky. If someone who's read the books make an observation like that, it's a spoiler. If someone who hasn't read the books but just drawn a conclusion that may or may not be true, based on what the TV Show has shown, it's not a spoiler.

...until the guy who's read the book goes "omg that's such a spoiler!"

:)

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On Tywin Lannister

Tywin is the current lord of House Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock, the Lord Paramount of the Westerlands, Warden of the West and considered the richest man in all the Seven Kingdoms.

He is a widower with three children, Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion.

Tywin is the son of Tytos Lannister. His father presided over a period of decline for the house. He frittered away much of their fortune on poor investments and allowed himself to be mocked at court creating a perception of weakness.

Their vassals House Reyne of Castamere rebelled against Lord Tytos. Tywin put down the rebellion personally, utterly extinguishing their house and re-establishing the fearsome reputation of House Lannister.

His ruthlessness here gave darker meaning to the common phrase "A Lannister always pays his debts" and was immortalized in the song "The Rains of Castamere".

Tywin married his cousin Joanna Lannister and their first children were the fraternal twins Cersei and Jaime. She died after giving birth to Tyrion. Tywin blames his son for the death of his spouse. Jaime was diagnosed with a learning difficulty by a Maester who predicted that he would never read. Tywin sat with his son for four hours a day until he overcame his problems with transposing letters in his mind. Jaime resented being forced to practice.

Tywin serves as the Mad King's Hand

Tywin served as Hand of the King to Aerys II Targaryen for twenty years but resigned after the Mad King, driven by envy and distrust, rejected Tywin's proposal to marry his daughter Cersei to Prince Rhaegar and made his son Jaime a member of the Kingsguard - thus robbing Tywin of his heir - events which Tywin perceived as insults.

During Robert's Rebellion Tywin remained neutral, answering neither the summons of the King nor the calls from the rebels, until the Battle of the Trident. Tywin marched with the full power of Casterly Rock to the capital, feigning he had come to defend it from the rebellion. After the city gates were opened, Tywin ordered the city to be taken and the royal family eliminated in a quick and efficient manner; as a result the city was sacked and the royal family massacred by Ser Gregor and Ser Amory Lorch. (this is the same Ser Amory that Jaqen H'ghar kills at the request of Arya Stark)

Meanwhile, Tywin's son Jamie killed the Mad King. Tywin presented the bodies of the royal family as proof of his allegiance. After the rebellion Robert Baratheon took the throne and married Tywin's daughter Cersei to cement their alliance.

Cersei's son Joffrey Baratheon is the heir to the Iron Throne. She has two younger children Myrcella Baratheon and Tommen Baratheon. Unbeknownst to Tywin all three children are the product of her incestuous relationship with Jaime.

Tywin is close to his younger brother, Kevan who is his chief advisor. Kevan's son Lancel (who Cersei took to bed when Jamie was captured) was King Robert's squire.

Tywin despises and hates his younger son, seeing him as misshapen and perverse. When Tyrion was very young, Jaime set him up with a prostitute. Jaime posed her as a common girl in distress that they rescued from bandits. Jaime chased the bandits off while Tyrion comforted the girl. They married, but when Tywin found out he was furious and made Jaime reveal the truth. Tywin paid her for every one of his guards to have sex with her and forced Tyrion to watch. Tywin's hatred of Tyrion has been reciprocated since.

Nevertheless, all of Tywin's children are in awe of him and rightly fear their father.

The Exchange

THank you Baron....that was very informative and helpful. I wish I had a blurb like that for all the characters.

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On Varys

Varys, sometimes called The Spider, is a eunuch and the Master of Whisperers on the king's small council.

He is a skilled and quintessential manipulator and commands a network of informants across two continents.

Background

Varys was born across the Narrow Sea in the Free Cities. He was born a slave, and as a child he traveled with a troupe of actors all around the different Free Cities until a sorcerer in the city of Myr made an offer Varys' master couldn't refuse.

Varys was sold to the sorcerer, who gave him a potion that made him unable to move or speak but didn't dull his perceptions or sense of pain, and castrated him (shaft and testes) to use his sexual organs in a magical ritual, burning them in a brazier. The sorcerer needed his genitals as a sacrifice for a spell. What Varys has had recurrent nightmares about to this day is not the sorcerer, or the knife, or the pain...but that when the sorcerer prayed to the blue flames in his ceremony, a voice clearly answered him from the flames. Whether it was a god or a demon or simply parlor tricks Varys never knew.

Afterward the sorcerer had no use for Varys and threw him in the streets to die. Instead Varys resolved to live no matter what: begging, stealing, and selling the sexual use of what parts remained to him, doing anything to survive. He also became an excellent thief (considered the best in the city), and soon learned that stolen information was often a far more valuable commodity than any physical goods, and he worked his way up from the slums of Myr. It was in these days that he first met the struggling sell-sword who would become Magister Illyrio Mopatis of Pentos. (This is the same man who played host to the Targaryen siblings in Season 1 and presented Daenerys three dragon eggs at her wedding)

Varys befriended the poor sell-sword Illyrio and they started a business where Varys would steal objects from lesser thieves and Illyrio would get the objects back for their original owners for a small fee. Soon, every man and woman in Pentos who ever had valuables stolen from them all knew who to ask to get their valuables back. In addition, the thieves in Pentos soon began to seek Illyrio and Varys out, half to try (and failing) to kill them, the other half to sell them the objects they stole in order to prevent Varys from stealing them back. The duo grew very rich.

As he left the years of his youth behind him, Varys became a master spy and information trafficker, and his influence and reputation grew so great that he eventually found himself as a member of the small council in the Seven Kingdoms. His experience at the hands of the sorcerer had also left him with a bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.

As member of the King's small council, he serves as the Master of Whisperers, the King's foremost spymaster and intelligence agent. He holds no inherited title or land in Westeros, but is called "Lord" as a courtesy due to his position on the council, which traditionally is made up of great lords.

The current day Varys is bald and tends towards fat, due to his castration. He often puts on the public persona of being nothing more than a pudgy man well suited to the pleasantries of court life; humble, obsequious, fawning, and a little effeminate. This is simply a facade that Varys has developed, which often leads those who do not know him well to underestimate him as a cheerful and vapid flatterer. In reality he is a cunning and ruthless manipulator of court politics, on-par with Master of Coin Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish, with whom he frequently verbally spars.

Unlike Baelish however, Varys insists that his goals are to achieve what he honestly feels is best for the realm, though of course, what he and the current king feels is best might be two separate things.

He is disparagingly known as "The Spider" due to his vast web of intelligence sources. His sophisticated intelligence network spans both Westeros and Essos, as far as Vaes Dothrak and even Qarth. He refers to his agents and sources of information as his "little birds".

In Season 1, it is worth noting that Arya overhears bits of conversation between Vary's and Illyrio Mopatis, although she is unable to identify them.

Dark Archive

Oh wow, I had no idea this Illyrio character from Varys' backstory had been seen in the TV show already, right from the beginning (1st episode, IIRC).

Yikes, Varys is up to his neck in stuff!


Set wrote:

Oh wow, I had no idea this Illyrio character from Varys' backstory had been seen in the TV show already, right from the beginning (1st episode, IIRC).

Yikes, Varys is up to his neck in stuff!

That is one advantage of having read the books prior to watching the show, the complex tapestry woven between the characters is much easier to understand. The viewer REALLY needs to pay attention to what is going on, there just aren't any throw away scenes, almost every scene has meaning.

In some ways the show is superior to the book as the writers are fixing small connections that GRRM did not make. However, the book has phenomenal detail that a TV or movie simply cannot duplicate.

Dark Archive

Another nine months until the next episode.

Some Game of Thrones fun facts in the meantime -

- Valar Morghulis translates to 'all men must die' in High Valyrian.

It is a customary saying in Essos, and is traditionally answered with Valar Dohaeris.

- Ser Ilyn Payne was the commander of Lord Tywin Lannister's guard when he was Hand of the King for Aerys II. He was heard saying that it was Lord Tywin who truly ruled the kingdom. King Aerys had his tongue torn out for that comment.

He was named as the King's Justice by King Robert I as a wedding present for Lord Tywin. It was a sinecure to compensate Payne for the tongue he lost in the service of House Lannister. Payne is an extremely skilled executioner. He never botched an execution and seldom required more then a single stroke to finish off his charges. Due to his appearance as well as his silence, many characters find him terrifying (a suitable trait for the King's Justice).

Interestingly enough he is cousin to Podrick Payne, Tyrion Lannister's apt squire.

- In his lifetime Grand Maester Pycelle has seen the reign of eight Kings, six of which he served in the small council as Grand Maester.

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The Bear and the Maiden Fair

Lyrics

Spoiler:
"A bear there was,"
"A bear, A BEAR!
"All black and brown,"
"And covered with hair!

"Oh come they said,"
"Oh come to the fair!"
"The fair? said he,
"But I'm a bear!"
"All black and brown,"
"And covered in hair!"

"And down the road,"
"From here to there,"
"From here!To there!"
"Three boys, a goat,"
"And a dancing bear!"
"They danced and spun,"
"All the way to the fair!"

"Oh! sweet she was,"
"And pure and fair,"
"The maid with honey,"
"In her hair! Her hair,"
"The maid with honey,"
"in her hair!"

The bear smelled the scent,
"On the summer air!"
"The Bear! The Bear!"
"All black and brown,"
"And covered with hair!"
"He smelled the scent,"
"On the summer air,"
"He sniffed and roared,"
"And smelled it there!"
"Honey on the summer air!"

"Oh I'm a maid,"
"And I'm pure and fair,"
"I'll never dance,"
"With a hairy bear,"
"A bear! A bear!"
"I'll never dance,"
"With a hairy bear!"

"The bear,the bear!"
"Lifted her high,"
into the air!"
The bear, the bear!"
"I called for a knight!"
"But you're a bear!"
"A bear! A bear,"
"All black and brown,"
"And cover in hair!"

"She kicked and wailed,"
"The maid so fair,"
"But he licked the honey,"
"From her hair!"
"Her hair! Her hair!"
"He licked the honey,"
"From her hair!"

"Then she sighed and squealed,"
"And kicked the air,"
"She sang: My bear so fair,"
"And off they went,"
"The bear! The bear!"

"And the maiden fair!"

The Bear and the Maiden Fair is a ribald traditional song sung throughout the Seven Kingdoms. It describes in a humorous tone the story of a hairy bear that, while going to a fair with a band of three boys and a goat, rescues a maiden who was hoping for a knight.

It is a popular song enjoyed both by the nobles and the commoners alike.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair sung by Roose Bolton's men.

Symbolism in the series

The song is a motif that reflects the relationships between several characters, including Sandor Clegane and Sansa Stark, Jorah Mormont and Daenerys Targaryen, and, almost comically, Brienne of Tarth and Jaime Lannister (where Sandor, Jorah, and Brienne symbolize "the Bear" who either literally or figuratively saves the "Maiden Fair").

The song's relevance to Jorah and Dany is emphasized by the fact that a bear is the sigil of House Mormont and that fair skin and hair are ubiquitous features among the bloodline of House Targaryen.

In A Game of Thrones, Sansa Stark is infatuated by the idea of the chivalrous prince and the knight in shining armor, archetypes which she believes are embodied by Ser Loras and, mistakenly, Prince Joffrey. Accordingly, when Joffrey and his court abuse and beat her, it is not the stereotypical knight but the deformed Sandor Clegane who comes to her rescue.

After Jaime Lannister loses his hand, Brienne steers Jaime away from depression and sets him on the path to redemption. Ironically, Jaime later saves Brienne from a grizzly bear in the bear pit at Harrenhal.

Dark Archive

Spoilers for ep 10 (season finale)

Spoiler:
Internet scuttlebutt suggested that this ep was supposed to have something shocking and / or cool, a kind of Yin to ep 9's Yang, or something. I didn't see it. I think ep 9 might have made a stronger season finale. Ep 10 felt like wrap up and housecleaning, more than anything, setting up the themes for next season. Maybe just ep 9 was that shocking and climactic that ep 10 had an impossible uphill climb to be anything other than a palette cleanser...

I totally respect Ygritte for sticking to her guns (er, arrows). She warned Jon Snow not to betray her, and I don't think that girl has 'just kidding' in her DNA.

Sovereign Court

George R R Martin with some spoilers from the Conan show.

The Exchange

Guy Humual wrote:
George R R Martin with some spoilers from the Conan show.

That is pretty funny! "Crap, I was supposed to write more books?!?" Too funny.

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