Item (Headband of Vast Intelligence)

[Lord Azerial]

As a player i wanted to ask a question to all those out there playing.

I have 20 prestige so i want to by the item listed in the subject, but it says on the PFSRD that The headband grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Intelligence of +2, +4, or +6. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the headband is worn. A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.

If this is bought new, not from a mod will i get to choose the skill placed in it, i ask this becasue i want to put it in Linguistics, it acts like skill points, so i can use it to learn more languages.

PS: If the bonus is treated as retroactive does that mean i get bonus languages based on my new intelligence score.

Please any help would be great thank you.

[Chris Mortika]

How do you buy an item for 20 prestige, Lord Azerial?

[Paz]

Presumably he means he has the necessary fame to be able to spend 4000 gp on a single item.

I think you can choose the skill, since you're funding the item's creation in a magic shop in Absalom.

I believe you get the extra languages from linguistics and the bonus language from higher Int, but like the skill ranks, they are hard-coded into the magic item.

[Lord Azerial]

Sorry for the confusion, yes i meant necessary fame to spend the money, so you think the int boost, becasue it's retroactive will give me the bonus language but what does that mean for the skill bonus of the item, does it act as skill ranks giving me more or just boost my linguistic skill.

[Chris Mortika]

A headband of vast intelligence has one, two, or three skills hard-wired into it. So, if you wanted to see its stats, they might look something like:
headband of vast intelligence +4: Appraise, Perform (oratory); Draconic, Sphinx

If your 6th-level ranger wears that, he gets +4 to his Intelligence, just as if he'd drunk a drought of fox's cunning. If his knowledge (arcana) bonus was at +8, now it's at +10. After 24 hours, he also gets 6 ranks (1 per level) in Appraise and Perform (oratory). (If he already has ranks in either skill, they don't stack.) He does not also get another free 12 ranks for skills. He also learns two bonus languages: Draconic and Sphinx.

[Lord Azerial]

I'm a lever 5 Alchemist with a focus on speaking nearly every language. I wanted to get the headband in the hopes that because in the wording it says skill ranks that it would be like i put that many more ranks in the skill meaning i could add 5 more languages making my language list nearly complete.

Based on what i have read the boost to Int would give me one more language, but does the headband boost work with a skill i already have 5 ranks in. If it does than would my character have ten ranks in linguistics at level 5 or if they don't stack do i still get the extra languages.

I do this becasue i overpower an entire mode becasue i could speak yeatee. Which was Aklo based on type of creature. I would love to add the few different human languages and one ancient language to my list this is why I'm asking all the questions.

So any more advised would be welcomed. And thank you for the help you both have given me.

[Chris Mortika]

The ranks from the headband do not stack with ranks you already have. If your 5th-level alchemist wears a headband of vast intelligence +2 keyed to the Linguistics skill, he will have 5 ranks in Linguistics, whether he had devoted any of his own skill ranks to it or not.

[Nefreet]

You do not gain bonus starting languages from any Intelligence increase, whether it be via leveling or a magical headband.

[Silbeg]

I would tend to agree with Nefreet here.

The listing for the Headband of Vast Intelligence says nothing about gaining languages, just:

prd wrote:

a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses.

No where does it suggest that you gain languages.

If the Headband had the skill Linguistics, I could see where you could argue that it would provide languages (with a predetermined list of each language gained by which skill point added).

I would say, that RAW, since the Headband does not specifically state that you gain languages, that you do not.

Chris, if you have a FAQ or other reference you can provide that supports gaining languages, I would love to see it.

[Hobbun]

Nefreet wrote:

You do not gain bonus starting languages from any Intelligence increase, whether it be via leveling or a magical headband.

Yes, I was going to say this.

Although if you choose Linguistics as one of your skills on the headband, you could get additional languages.

For example, if you originally only put two ranks into your Linguistics skill, you would of course have two additional languages (on top of your starting ones). But if you were 5th level and attained a Headband of Vast Intellect with the Linguistics skill attached, you would pick up an additional 3 languages (with now having 5 ranks).

The thing is you would need to keep note of your languages gained from your original 2 ranks you put into the skill, because if you lose the headband, you would lose those additional languages.

At least that is how I believe it works.

Silbeg wrote:

I would say, that RAW, since the Headband does not specifically state that you gain languages, that you do not.

Well, the headband doesn’t say you gain additional languages, but as you do gain an additional language for each rank in Linguistics, and if your ranks are higher (for Linguistics) than your base skill, I don’t see why you wouldn’t gain more languages.

Now, I would agree with you, if you have maxed out the ranks for your character every level for Linguistics, then you would not gain any additional languages from the headband (with Linguistics) as it would be the same number of ranks.

But then you need to ask yourself why you would even purchase a headband with the Linguistics skill attached. :)

[Chris Mortika]

Sure. The issue has to do with a design change from D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder.

In D&D 3.5, in order to build a legal, say, human 12th-level fighter/ 3rd-level rogue for the party to face, a designer would have to stat the character up at 1st level and then advance him through eery level up to 15. (How many skill ranks does the guy get? Hit points? It depends on which class he takes levels in when, and whether he starts with a 13 Intelligence and adds a point at 8th level, or starts with a 14 Intelligence ... Does he ever take ranks in cross-class skills?)

One of the Pathfinder development goals was to build NPCs of any given level in situ. So stat increases are retroactive. Once a skill becomes a class skill, it's always a class skill. There's no weirdness with the number of skill ranks at first level. and so on. (For PCs, there's still the matter of getting full HP at 1st level, but the team designing NPCs doesn't care.)

So, if you see a 14th-level Wizard with an Intelligence score of 20, the design principles of Pathfinder assert that the developers didn't need to know whether the character started out with an Int of 18 and is using a crimson sphere ioun stone , or if she started out with 11, raised her attribute at levels 4, 8, and 12, and wears a headband of vast intelligence +6. Or maybe the NPC just started life with a natural Intelligence of 20. The developer doesn't need to know, and the person reading the stat block shouldn't be able to tell except when she looks at the equipment list.

So headbands give skill ranks. And having languages known increase is consonant with that design principle.

[Nefreet]

Chris, you should read the section on Intelligence in the Ability Scores section of the CRB. It specifically calls out that bonus languages gained from a high Intelligence are only gained at 1st level.

[Chris Mortika]

Then that's an exception to the design principles. Cool; thanks.

[Mike Lindner]

Nefreet wrote:

Chris, you should read the section on Intelligence in the Ability Scores section of the CRB. It specifically calls out that bonus languages gained from a high Intelligence are only gained at 1st level.

"The number of bonus languages your character knows at the start of the game."

The start of the game need not be level 1. However, this isn't really the place for such a discussion. That would be the existing thread on the topic.

[Lord Azerial]

My whole thought was that becasue it acted like ranks that each new rank in linguistics is a one new language, but that they don't stack or are effective, i will wait until another item comes along.

My last question going out to you all is, are there any items, spells, or other objects i can buy that would get me extra languages.

[Matthew Pittard]

Isnt there a helm or item that grants the ability to speak/understand all languages?

[kinevon]

I believe that there is a Helm of Comprehend Languages or some such, and the Pearl of the Sitrine, IIRC.

Not sure if Tongues is Personal only, or not. If not, then potions of Tongues, if so, get a spell storing item that can hold enough spell levels for Tongues and just pay to get it put in there, and replaced when used.

Of course, if Tongues is a legal Alchemist formula, just add it to your spellbook and make extracts of Tongues.

[Nefreet]

I just learned as of 7 minutes ago that, due to a recent FAQ, you are allowed to pick up an additional language any time your Intelligence increases, so retract my statement from above.

[Zog of Deadwood]

Nefreet wrote:

I just learned as of 7 minutes ago that, due to a recent FAQ, you are allowed to pick up an additional language any time your Intelligence increases, so retract my statement from above.

I was in that thread, and yes, you do pick up an additional language whenever your Int mod increases, but if it does so from an item such as a Headband of Vast Intelligence the languages come preloaded. That being the case, a PC may or may not get additional languages from such an item, depending on how many languages are already known and whether or not they match what is in the Headband. This is functionally identical to the situation when a PC acquires a headband that gives skill ranks in several skills, some of which a PC already has.

[David knott 242]

This thread explains why my reaction when the DM handed out a Headband of Vast Intelligence with the Linguistics skill was, "Please, no, don't do that."