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I think the title is pretty self explanatory, why is the Harrower PrC (and by extension the Harrowed feat) not allowed in PFS? I've been asking myself just that for a couple weeks now, I've talked it with other fellow PFS goers and no one could give me a concrete argument or reason as to why they're not allowed.
I think it is perhaps one of those things that were implemented when it was thought too powerful or complicated to be allowed in society, but now that there is far more broken or complicated material allowed in society (some are both), I think Mr. Brock should review this PrC and hopefully deem it fit for PFS. I must say, for an whole season that was set in Varisia, to not allow a rather iconic PrC to take part in it is quite saddening.
Too easy to cheat with card manipulation.
I prefer to use the dice myself.
In any case, its a little complicated and anything related to harrowing isn't in PFS, if I remember correctly. Its a cool concept, but it can eat up table time and its not the most recognizable thing in the world. Unless your familiar with it you'd have to reread the rules on it each time as a GM.
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I love the Harrow Deck and Harrowers, and just took my first level as one in a home game. But TetsujinOni is correct - there are way too many ways to cheat, and it's rather difficult for a GM to know all the rules well enough to have any clue.
For instance, for the 5th-level 'cards of death' ability, the deck could be stacked with cards that indicate high damage. Assuming a cheating player has to do more than just say a higher total since it's very arcane how the points add up. That's part of the attraction of the class.
Overall, just far too many complex mechanics, and other aspects (fortune-telling for instance) that would be distracting and abusable at a PFS game. It's not that cheating would be rampant, it's that it would be an open question. The GM might have to watch the Harrower every single time they cast a spell for instance, make sure the deck is shuffled, and learn/know/look-up what each suit does.
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I still disagree with the PrC being broken. If I'm read the 5th level "cards of death" ability right, even if you got 5 cards that match your exact alignment, that's still only 25 points of damage. At level 10 (which is the earliest anyone can get that ability), it's a rather insignificant amount of damage, specially considering it can only be used 1+Cha mod/day.
Also, as I mentioned above, cheating can be dealt with very easily by the GM if he or she suspects it. Just shuffle the deck yourself while it is someone else turn, and when the Harrower's turn comes around, give them their deck back.
Also, fortune-telling, while time consuming, is more of a flavor thing that any character can do now without having to take any levels in anything.
In reality, the abilities the Harrower provide aren't more time consuming than someone playing a summoning character, or any other sort of spellcaster. It all boils down to the player.
I'm not sure if its fair to compare the harrower to summon spells or spell casting, nor to classes. Your expected to know classes, but not every prestige in a sourcebook. Classes are core. Personally, I avoid summoning. I don't even like it when an NPC does it.
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I don't think it's any more easy to abuse than any other class out there. 25 point of untyped damage with no save is nothing compared to a persistent (using a metamagic rod) Pugwampi’s Grace, which can be achieved at much lower levels.
I still maintain that while cheating can be done, I don't think it's anything else out there that can be done in terms of cheating. I don't think a fixed deck is any more dangerous than say a character sheet written with such messy hand writing only the player can read it (thus giving way to more cheating opportunities), for example.
As for the PrC's other class features, I don't believe they are neither broken nor easier to cheat with.
I wonder if the problem is a one level dip into that prestige class? A random daily bonus to the entire party is well worth the investment in feats plus a class level.
So, let's say a new-ish player likes the flavor of a harrow-themed character. Is there anything like that we can recommend? A Witch with fortune and misfortune hexes?
Oracle with misfortune is fun. Immediate action hungry, but fate is literally in your hands. I don't know anyone else who gives a bonus similar to harrowing however.
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Even aside from the potential for abuse, something like this will take up a lot of time at a table. Between the abilites itself and the GM having to look up a bunch of rules he is not familiar with, one person is going to eat up a lot of a table's time in a game where people are often limited to 4 hour slots. Other class features such as multiple combat animals that could lead to one or more players taking up too much time have also been banned, not necessarily because they are too powerful but because they take up too much time.
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Hmmm, when did this become good? Fighers do this with just power attack
It doesn't need a save, no SR, no AC, no defenses, nothing to stop it and can be done at range. Sure, 25 damage is nothing to sneeze at by itself at lvl 10, but a magic missile with no SR and not blocked by shield is still pretty good. Magic missile was one of the first-level spells my sorcerer was still using throughout his career (and he's 13 now.)
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Hmm, the wand bit has been errataed since my version of the rule book, so I wasn't aware. Useful to know.
I assumed I could not use wrist sheathes OR a glove of storing; as items within count as stored as far as I could tell and the haunted curse specifically calls out that it takes a minimum of a standard action to retrieve a stored item. I figured that the curse overrides the special properties of the spring loaded wrist sheath and glove of storing... at least it is ambiguous enough that I didn't want to deal with table variation so I don't count on the wrist sheathes nor am I going to spend all that gold on the glove.
Rei, expect table variation on the scrolls in wrist sheathes. I believe it works and allow it at my table but some GMs rule otherwise.
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Really? All haunted really does is knock dropped items 10 feet away from you in a random direction, and makes the "retrieve stored item" action take at least a standard action; it doesn't change the action needed to perform the "draw weapon" action, nor does it effect spell components, as drawing them is part of the action used to cast the spell.I'm not really seeing any way for haunted to be "enforced" in such a way to be a major disadvantage. Heck, I'd say it's significantly less of a drawback than ALL of the other curses, and you get some pretty handy spells in return (oh noes, I my weapon ended up all the way over there? MAGE HAND!)
Yes, there's the bit about "minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises)", but if the GM is using that as justification to do things that have significant impact, that goes well beyond "minor mishaps". A gust of wind strong enough to have any negative effect is more than a "breeze", "small objects moving on their own" does NOT mean flying around as if you were in a deleted scene from The Exorcist, and "faint noises" shouldn't even be enough to seriously impact stealth.
It's not as much of an annoyance if you're the martial type of oracle. I have a harrower/haunted oracle actually who is a caster in a home game and I have to choose what wands I have out, and if those don't work it's horrible. Not being able to pull something out and use it on the same turn is loss of action economy. I have 5 oracles, and I have never seen a curse be as hampering as that one to any of my characters. I even have a consumed oracle and I prefer that.
The thing is there's GM interpretation of this curse, too. What do wrist sheaths do? What about a handy haversack? The curse is a divine one, so you would think it would be more interfering than a common magical item or mundane item so they wouldn't circumvent it.
I have another friend who went haunted and it doesn't bother him as much, but his character is a martial type, so he's usually pulling out weapons.
Plus, the benefits aren't that great for the curse. I just know I'll never make a haunted oracle again, even though I love the character I have.
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Getting back on track, the three reasons behind why this PrC might be banned is because
a. The mechanics slow down the game;
b. Cheating is facilitated by the harrow deck; and
c. It is overpowered.
Lets deal with these presumptions point by point
First: the mechanics slow down the game.
There are several other examples of class features, feats, and spells that also slow down the game significantly. As a few examples, alchemists and the mechanics surrounding bombs, and thrown objects. In my experience thrown objects and missing doesn't come up very often, but when there's an alchemist in the party, at least a couple times per game the question as to the proper way of handling misses with thrown objects come up, and that usually slows down the game, between looking the rules up, asking around, and finally agreeing on the proper way to rule it. Another example is summoning. If you have someone who is not very organized, summoning becomes a time consuming nightmare at the table for obvious reasons.
Overall, the main reason a class feature, spell, or feat, is down to the player. If they're on top of their game, then their turns will not eat up a lot of time, otherwise, regardless of experience, their turns will take an eternity. I have seen veteran players take forever playing the one turn.
Taken, a more complicated mechanical effect will have higher odds of causing people to take longer playing their turns. But, if everything that was deemed complicated was banned, there would barely be anything left to play in PFS.
Secondly: Cheating
Yes, the harrow cards do add an extra dimension when it comes to cheating, both because fixing a deck is doable by just about anyone and because it's not a very well known system. While yes, cheating does ruin some people's fun, again, it boils down to the players. After all, it's all about having fun. Just because this system adds an extra opportunity to cheat, it shouldn't be a reason for the class to be banned. There are several other ways to cheat, but the question becomes at what point do you draw the line. If cheating is so much of a concern to not allow a whole PrC, then obviously it is a rampant problem that needs to be dealt with swiftly. Instead of the players rolling their dice, we can get the GM to do it for them. And character sheets must be presented as a printed copy to the GM at the start of every session, to avoid opportune scribbles (such as, "oh hey! I did have a potion of cure light wounds after all!").
Seriously though, I don't believe the possibility of cheating is enough of a reason to ban a class. If a player is caught cheating, it should be dealt with in the appropriate manner and then move on. If the player in question is a repeat offender, I'm sure the area's VC can deal with the player's character in an official manner. I have not seen cheating come up very often in my local PFS lodge, so why should the potential actions of the few prevent the many from having fun?
And thirdly: Overpowered
The example that came up was the level 5 ability "Spirit deck". Summing up what the ability does, at level 5, if you have a lot of luck and essentially draw 5 cards that match your alignment, then you deal 25 points of damage to 1 creature within 30 feet, no saves, no resistances. I can see why some people might think this is overpowered, but let's examine why this ability is close to par with other options characters have at level 10 (since this is the earliest this ability can be obtained).
According to table 1-1 on page 291 of the Bestiary, at level 10 a monster should have about 130 hp. 25 points of damage in this case is a fair chunk of damage. However, you have to be within 30', which for a spellcaster is a fairly close range and dangerous range. Also, the odds of drawing the exact 5 cards you need are rather low. Are all these risks worth doing 25 points of damage? Specially considering some other things a character could be doing. Casting haste would, on the long run deal more damage to the creature in question. Casting slow would also hinder it quite a bit. Casting, any other buff or debuff is usually a more effective strategy, usually with fewer risks to the spellcasters in question.
Also, look at some of the abilities other characters have open to them. I played a character that at level 10 could deal with one attack 4d4+25 with a 15-20 crit range. Give the creature being attacked DR 15, and a crit could deal a potential 74 points of damage (vital strike being used) and a minimum of 56 points of damage. After DR the minimum would be 41 points of damage. Realistically, this is far more powerful and likely than an ability that has the potential to deal up to 25 points of damage. Also, sadly, this character of mine is not dealing anywhere near as much damage as I've seen some other characters deal at this level (I observed a magus deal a good 200 points of damage from one hit).
I believe this is one of those abilities that looks more powerful on paper than at the table.
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I have not seen cheating come up very often in my local PFS lodge, so why should the potential actions of the few prevent the many from having fun?
Welcome to Organized Play. ;)
But, seriously, an awful lot of the restrictions and paperwork in any OP campaign are in there to keep the small minority who would abuse the system from doing so in a blatant manner.
If a player is hell-bent on cheating, he'll still find ways to do so; the restrictions in OP campaigns are usually there to take away the incentive to do so for the player who wouldn't normally cheat, but might be willing to "bend the rules" if it didn't appear that there was any penalty for doing so, or if it didn't look like there was any way that he could be caught.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think cheating was a concern with this. I think somewhere along the lines, a decision was made to just ban everything Harrow related. The spell, the PrC, even the Deadly Dealer feat, which really doesn't even use the real world harrow deck. My guess is it was because of the difficulties with divination spells and an organized game, and because of the mechanics of it. Not any power level concerns or concerns about cheating.
Interestingly enough, I think there are a couple of traits that are still legal, like the Harrow Born Varisian trait out of Humans of Golarion (+1 to Initiative and a free, though mechanically useless in PFS, harrow deck).
I went Kapenia Dancer Magus and just took Profession Fortune Teller for my "Harrower." I thought about Bard as well, since their Divination based spells like Timely Inspiration seem fitting.