Grappling and Reach


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

If a creature with the grab ability initiates a grapple from a distance, the rules say to move that creature to AN adjacent square. The rules however do not say which adjacent square the creature must be moved to.

Therefore, if a huge creature is facing the party in front of him, can he reach out, grab a creature, and then place him lets say in an adjacent square behind the huge creature, effectively separating the grappled PC from the party?


I guess RAW he could, but I just move the creature in a straight line. I don't think the intent is to place the creature where ever you want, but that is just speculation on my part.


RAW doesn't seem to care, but I make the following inferences about RAI:

On your second round if you maintain the grapple, you can do this:

"Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus."

I don't imagine the intent of initially establishing the grapple is that you can do any of this stuff - it all must be done after maintaining. If that is not true, then it would also have needed similar wording about "any adjacent" and the consequences of fires and pits, etc. So it makes sense to drag the grappled victim to whatever open space is on, or nearest to, the line from his square to yours.

Although, a much more liberal RAI might be to apply the same rule quoted, but without the moving at half speed, thereby allowing the grappler to pick any adjacent square and allowing the victim an extra attempt to break free if that square is hazardous.

In any case, it seems clear to me that the worst attempt at RAI is to allow the grappler to pick any adjacent space with no consequences if that space is hazardous, simply because he cannot even do that deliberately when he is intentionally moving the victim.


Sorry for the necro, but this issue came up in my group recently also, so we're curious about initial grapple rule as well. specifically a flying character was grappled by a huge creature with 15 feet of reach and the grab special ability. The grap triggered off of an Attack of Opportunity, and the flying character was then moved to a square behind the huge creature above a 1000 foot pit(that the creature just climbed out of), and when the flying creature was knocked unconcious, the creature released the grapple and dropped him into the pit.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Martiln wrote:
Sorry for the necro, but this issue came up in my group recently also, so we're curious about initial grapple rule as well. specifically a flying character was grappled by a huge creature with 15 feet of reach and the grab special ability. The grap triggered off of an Attack of Opportunity, and the flying character was then moved to a square behind the huge creature above a 1000 foot pit(that the creature just climbed out of), and when the flying creature was knocked unconcious, the creature released the grapple and dropped him into the pit.

All sounds technically legal (RAW)


RAI seems that it should be in a straight line towards the grappler. Anything else seems a bit cheesy.


James Risner wrote:
Martiln wrote:
Sorry for the necro, but this issue came up in my group recently also, so we're curious about initial grapple rule as well. specifically a flying character was grappled by a huge creature with 15 feet of reach and the grab special ability. The grap triggered off of an Attack of Opportunity, and the flying character was then moved to a square behind the huge creature above a 1000 foot pit(that the creature just climbed out of), and when the flying creature was knocked unconcious, the creature released the grapple and dropped him into the pit.
All sounds technically legal (RAW)

There could be the isue of doing free action while is not your turn.


If we think about how movement (since it says to MOVE the character to an adjacent square) works, you have to cross line AB to get from point A to point B. So if a character starts at point A when they are grappled, if they would go through an adjacent square before getting to point B, then the condition is met and the movement stops. They don't teleport. Much like how a charging character must attack at the first viable square.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Nicos wrote:
James Risner wrote:
Martiln wrote:
Sorry for the necro, but this issue came up in my group recently also, so we're curious about initial grapple rule as well. specifically a flying character was grappled by a huge creature with 15 feet of reach and the grab special ability. The grap triggered off of an Attack of Opportunity, and the flying character was then moved to a square behind the huge creature above a 1000 foot pit(that the creature just climbed out of), and when the flying creature was knocked unconcious, the creature released the grapple and dropped him into the pit.
All sounds technically legal (RAW)
There could be the isue of doing free action while is not your turn.

I made the assumption that the free action release was done on the Grappler's init. So there is no issue of doing a free action on some one else's turn (which you can't do.)


James Risner wrote:
Nicos wrote:
James Risner wrote:
Martiln wrote:
Sorry for the necro, but this issue came up in my group recently also, so we're curious about initial grapple rule as well. specifically a flying character was grappled by a huge creature with 15 feet of reach and the grab special ability. The grap triggered off of an Attack of Opportunity, and the flying character was then moved to a square behind the huge creature above a 1000 foot pit(that the creature just climbed out of), and when the flying creature was knocked unconcious, the creature released the grapple and dropped him into the pit.
All sounds technically legal (RAW)
There could be the isue of doing free action while is not your turn.
I made the assumption that the free action release was done on the Grappler's init. So there is no issue of doing a free action on some one else's turn (which you can't do.)

Not the release but the grapple check. it is a free action to use grab.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Nicos wrote:
Not the release but the grapple check. it is a free action to use grab.

Interesting, that is technically true.

If you take a Claw with Grab attack as an AoO, then you wouldn't get the grab.


James Risner wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Not the release but the grapple check. it is a free action to use grab.

Interesting, that is technically true.

If you take a Claw with Grab attack as an AoO, then you wouldn't get the grab.

Not necessarily. Depends on how broad you take This Ruling to be.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Davick wrote:
Not necessarily. Depends on how broad you take This Ruling to be.

Not discussing intent on the Grab issue, the intent (as has been publicly stated many times) is that reloading should be a "no action" and should have never been a "free action" in the first place.

So any ruling about free action reloading should consider they believe it should be a no action anyway.


It's also been stated that an attack of opportunity is an action and it's in the rules that you can take free actions during other actions.

Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of
time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions
while taking another action normally. However, there are
reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as
decided by the GM.

So it's up to the GM whether or not you can grab.

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