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Does a buckler arm have a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”?
This came up in a recent advice thread on the Aldori Swordlord.
I am of the opinion that a buckler arm has a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”. Others may disagree.
What is your opinion?
If you believe you a buckler arm does not have a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing” please quote a relevant rule if possible. Feel free to bring up real life, or speculate on the intent of the rules, but bear in mind that intent is not a rule and Pathfinder is (thankfully) not real life. As rule 0 overrides all other rules, please do not use it as the basis for your argument.
I believe the rules clearly support the position that a buckler arm has a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”.
Firstly, let us look at the rules for shields.
Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
In the case of a Heavy Shield, it is clear that your shield arm does not have a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”.
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
With the light shield you are gripping the shield with your hand but you can still use it to “carry other items”. (Some consider an arm with a Light Shield may have a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”, but this is even more controversial than the buckler arm providing a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” or “holding nothing”, and an issue for another thread.)
However, the wording for buckler is quite different:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm.
Your hand is not mentioned. Your forearm is not your hand. A light shield allows you to “carry other items”, so it would be reasonable to assume this also applies to the smaller buckler.
However, does this mean you have a “free hand” and are “carrying nothing” in it?
The rules do not define what constitutes a free hand, but there are actions that require a “free hand”, or two hands to perform. Can these actions be performed whilst using a buckler?
If they can, we can conclude that your buckler hand is a “free hand”.
In some instances the rules are clear, for example:
Casting a spell with a somatic component requires a free hand, can this be done while using a buckler?
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.
…You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn...
When casting a spell, the buckler hand can count as a free hand, but this action causes you to lose the buckler’s AC bonus.
Using a weapon two handed, or fighting two handed obviously requires two hands, and can you also use a buckler whilst doing this? This would require the buckler arm to have a “free hand” that is available to be used to wield a weapon.
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively.
Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat): You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands.
Buckler: …You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn…
You can fight two handed with a buckler, but with penalties.
Using a bow, crossbow, a two handed firearm or reloading a sling requires two hands, can you simultaneously use a buckler? On a related matter, a rotating a pepperbox barrel requires a “free hand”, can you do this whilst using a buckler?
Loading a Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms.
Pepperbox: This pistol has six barrels instead of one. The entire barrel housing can be quickly rotated by hand between shots (a free action requiring one free hand), allowing all six bullets to be fired before the weapon must be reloaded.
Longbow: …You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size.
Bucklers: You can use a one-handed or two-handed firearm without penalty while carrying a buckler.
Buckler: …You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.
You can use a buckler and a bow or firearm, “without penalty”. There is no AC loss. The rules are silent on the sling. Halflings are bitter.
To sum up so far – the buckler hand is available for spell use, two handed fighting, and two weapon fighting, but with penalties such as the loss of AC. However, you can use bows, crossbows,firearms, and rotate a pepperbox barrel with a buckler with no penalty at all. In all of these instances, a buckler arm is considered to have a “free hand”.
In other instances, a "free hand" or a hand "carrying nothing" or "holding nothing" is required, but the rules do not mention a buckler. Some of these many instances include:
Lay On Hands: …Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.
Word of Healing: …You must be able to speak and have a free hand to use this ability.
Crane Wing (Combat): ..Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free…
Snapping Turtle Style: …While using the Snapping Turtle Style feat with at least one hand free, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Deflect Arrows (Combat):… You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat.
Snatch Arrows (Combat):…You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat.
Spell Combat (Ex): ...To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand...
Pool Strike (Su): …The magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a standard action to charge his free hand with energy...
Wind Servant (Sp): ..If you have a free hand, you can catch an object hurled toward yourself...
Hurling Charge (Ex): …The barbarian must have a thrown weapon in hand or have one hand free at the beginning of her charge...
Ancient Healing Hand (Su): … He needs at least one hand free to use this ability, and cannot heal himself...
Steal: …You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to attempt this maneuver...
Ill Omen: …A target who can speak and has at least one free hand and who is aware of the spell and its effects (such as from a Spellcraft check to identify the spell as it is cast) can negate one reroll by spending a move action to utter a brief prayer or good luck charm to appease the spirits of ill fortune...
Light Lance: ...You must have a free hand when casting the spell and, once you call the lance into being, you cannot switch it to another hand or put it down without prematurely ending the spell...
Free Hand Fighter …His fighting school benefits only apply when he is using a one-handed weapon and carrying nothing in his other hand...
And of course, the Aldori Swordlord : …The following benefits only apply when a swordlord is using an Aldori duelling sword and carrying nothing in his other hand....
Can you use a buckler in these cases? I am not aware of any rule that says you cannot. We have already seen that there are several clear instances in the rules were a buckler arm is treated as having a free hand.
In the absence of an official FAQ, the next best authority is James Jacobs. So what are his views on using a buckler in some of these instances?
mark kay wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
mark kay wrote:
Just sort of rules-y, if you're wearing a buckler while using crane style/crane wing from ultimate combat, do you lose its ac bonus in any round you use your buckler arm for your free hand to deflect a melee attack?
And similar question for deflect arrows and buckler use.
James Jacobs wrote:
Only if you do if you lose the AC bonus for doing other things with your shield arm when there's a buckler.
Hum, so, as long as you're not otherwise attacking with that hand that round or, I don't know, grabbing something from a pouch, you keep your buckler ac while deflecting?
Sorry, it just read a bit unclearly.
James Jacobs wrote:
Sounds good to me!
James Jacobs wrote:
You could use a buckler and still do Spell Combat; that's sort of the whole point of the buckler
James Jacobs wrote:
Sammy123 wrote:
Can a paladin do LoH with during combat when holding a sword and light shield?
I believe so. A light shield allows spellcasters to use their hand to cast, and lets you carry an object; the only thing it actually prevents is wielding a weapon. Since lay on hands only requires you to touch someone, you could indeed use this ability while wearing a light shield.
So for spell combat, deflect arrows and crane wing, the opinion of James Jacobs is that you can use a buckler with these actions. All require a “free hand”. In the case of lay on lands and spellcasters using their hand to cast, James Jacobs believes even a light shield allows you to have a “free hand”.
In conclusion, the rules are clear - a buckler arm has a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”.
That is the general consensus.
In conclusion, the rules are clear - a buckler arm has a “free hand” that is “carrying nothing” and “holding nothing”.
Nothing is ever clear. :-)
What is the meaning of "free" in "free hand"?
- If it is identical to "holding nothing" (which I think is what is meant), then a buckler arm has a "free hand".
- If it means "completely unhindered", then a buckler arm does not have a free hand --- the buckler arm gets penalties in some situations.
- If it means "doesn't cost anything", then all characters have free hands (unless you're a construct or have grafts or something).
- If it means "unburdened by legal constraints", then all characters have free hands (as long as you don't name your hand "Golarion" or something).
- If it means "refusing to accept the armistice and continuing to fight", then you have some serious MPD issues.
That is the general consensus.
I agree. But do note, when using that hand for anything else no Shield bonus. For what do you need a "free hand"?
For purposes of effects (like class abilities) that rely on having a free hand, assume that you do NOT have a free hand while applying the buckler's shield bonus to your AC.
What are you trying to accomplish with this "free hand?"
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Some situations I have been having run through my head with the buckler question:
A) Can I cast a spell with a somatic component while using the buckler bonus to AC?
B) Can I use Crane Wing (which requires a free hand) while using the buckler bonus to AC?
C) Can I use Deflect\Snatch Arrows (which requires a free hand) while using the buckler bonus to AC?
"You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler."
"You can use a buckler and a bow or firearm, “without penalty”. There is no AC loss."
I understood this to mean that you didn't get an attack penalty. You still lose the buckler's AC bonus for the round after you fire a crossbow two-handed.
"You can use a buckler and a bow or firearm, “without penalty”. There is no AC loss."
I understood this to mean that you didn't get an attack penalty. You still lose the buckler's AC bonus for the round after you fire a crossbow two-handed.
That is also how I've always understood that.
Because of this: "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn."
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Excuse me sort of necroing this but I think the salient sentence in the description of the buckler is the third one.
In particular:
"Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon ..."
Since when is a bow not a weapon?
Well, it would seem to be the case that it isn't within the context of this paragraph, otherwise the text would say something like "You can also use your shield arm to wield any other weapon ...".
IMO that suggests that all subsequent text relating to weapons does not relate to bows.
In particular, this one: "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn." does not apply to using a bow.
I have no idea about firearms...
Richard
Only because the people writing the rules, don't know what a buckler is.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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The intent with the buckler seems to be that you can't both gain the AC benefit of the shield and get any other use out of that hand in the same round, with a bow or firearm being specific exceptions.
So it seems to me that if you need a free hand for a feat or class ability, then you are not gaining the AC bonus in any round you wish to enjoy said perk. You are using that arm to balance/deflect/etc. and not to block.
I'd probably also tack on the -1 attack penalty to any fighting style that requires a free hand, as the weight of the shield throws you off just a little bit. That's pretty firmly in house rule territory though.
