Animate Dead and material components


Advice

Sczarni

8 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Animate Dead requests onyx gem worth of 25gp per HD of animated subject however how can scrolls/oils/wands of such spell be used if the cost is different every time you use it? Can the material component be added upon the moment of casting instead of being added immediately after creation of scroll/oil/wand?

Additional question: How can this cost be either bypassed, reduced or be used with better versatility?

I am searching for easier way to utilize Animate Dead at PFS, so ideas or answers need to be legit.

Thanks everyone for responses


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Malag wrote:
Animate Dead requests onyx gem worth of 25gp per HD of animated subject however how can scrolls/oils/wands of such spell be used if the cost is different every time you use it? Can the material component be added upon the moment of casting instead of being added immediately after creation of scroll/oil/wand?

The cost must be paid when the scroll is scribed. That means the scriber must make the decision of how many HD of undead to create when the scroll is scribed, and include that much onyx.


Quote:
Animate Dead requests onyx gem worth of 25gp per HD of animated subject however how can scrolls/oils/wands of such spell be used if the cost is different every time you use it?

The decision of how much material component to invest is made at the time of the scroll/oil/wand creation. That essentially places a hard cap on the number of HD that item can create, and the person using the item has no control over this maximum.

Quote:
Additional question: How can this cost be either bypassed, reduced or be used with better versatility?

The only effective way I know is to use the "undeath" word from the alternate word of power rules. Using the "experimental spellcaster" feat to grab it is the most sensible approach.

There is a problem with the undeath word, however: It's unclear whether it can handle variant undead (such as the bloody skeleton or fast zombie). Your GM's ruling on the matter will affect how good it is at its job.

Technically the Undead Lord archtype allows you to have one undead minion for free, but its HD cap is painfully low and it takes a whopping 8 hours to replace him if he dies and the penalty for using variant undead is so massive as to make it useless. By RAW, undead lord is rather useless.

Sczarni

So how to get the most of scrolls/oils/wands? Blind pick the number of HDs?


Quote:
So how to get the most of scrolls/oils/wands? Blind pick the number of HDs?

Yup; any time you're in a situation where you can accurately predict what kind of creature(s) you will be raising, you're better off just memorizing the spell.

Ordinarily using items for the purpose of animate dead isn't a very good way to handle it. Because you really can't know ahead of time what HD you're going to want to raise, it's practically assured some of the material component will go to waste. The command undead spell, however, is great in wand form since it doesn't have a HD limit. Do keep in mind that it has a limited duration, however.

Sczarni

I guess I can memorize one spell and use pearl of power for multiple castings without taking other slots. In some way, I get item that grants me multiple efficient castings without wasting any additional onyxes. Okay, that's good idea Malag.

The command undead might be good but I have already feat so it's unnecessary for the time being.

What other items might be helpful with Animate Dead?

Sczarni

Bump for more ideas.


Simplest (but home-brew) solution would be to allow scrolls to "stack".
All of them are priced for a 1HD undead, and you simply use up 5 of them if you want a 5HD undead.

Sczarni

But like I said, this is for PFS, so I can't go without it being legit.

Is it really possible that nobody knows anything about how to get the most of Animate Dead economically?


Malag wrote:
Is it really possible that nobody knows anything about how to get the most of Animate Dead economically?

Yes. There has never been a clarification how spells that have variable material components work, when cast from an item.

You can mark your original question as FAQable, and wait. But I expect you'll wait a long time.

Liberty's Edge

It isn't that no one knows how to get the most out of animate dead economically, it is just that short of building a character around it entirely your options are pretty much "use your undead efficiently" or "use blood price" (or whatever that 1st level spell that lets you skip material components is.

And since using undead efficiently isn't that easy in a setting where you can't keep undead from game to game (and thus can't ensure you have good undead). . .

Sczarni

@VRMH
I doubt it needs FAQ honestly. I just wish to find some feats/items/spells that might help out.

@ShadowcatX
I don't really plan to build many undead creatures. So far I managed to raise maybe 2 in about 8 scenarios. I mostly avoid it if party doesn't agree with it and my cleric is mostly melee focused.

When I do animate any, I want it to be fast, cheap and easy. I don't plan to use that Blood spell that bypasses components tho. Too cheesy for me. However I do wish to get most of it economically.


He He, this is part of why there are no such spells currently on my treasure tables!

Liberty's Edge

Malag wrote:
When I do animate any, I want it to be fast, cheap and easy. I don't plan to use that Blood spell that bypasses components tho. Too cheesy for me. However I do wish to get most of it economically.

You wish to find something that will help you animate them cheaper, yet something specifically designed to make spells cheaper is too cheesy?

IMO: Using that spell isn't cheesing anything (unless you have to manipulate the rules to get it) but jumping through a dozen hoops to get the same effect might well be.


Take the Experimental Spellcaster feat and apply it to the Undeath effect word. Free Zombos or Skellies! And it's fast too: just one Standard Action.


Casting Animate Thread on this Necromancy thread.

The issue of how much wands of spells with variable material component costs is something I'd really like to see answered.

Can we come together and FAQ the OP's question so we might get some developer attention for this?


Doomed Hero wrote:
Can we come together and FAQ the OP's question so we might get some developer attention for this?

I second the motion.


Thirded, but I suspect a more general question such as "How much does a wand or scroll of a spell with a variable material component cost?" would work better than an animate-dead specific question.


That may be true, but this thread shall have to suffice for now.


And now: a bump.
Please FAQ the OP.


Words of Power aren't PFS legal.

Sadly.

Dark Archive

Blood money comes to mind here. It's PFS legal so long as you've got the anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords in your possession. The spell is cast as a swift action and inflicts damage on its user in order to provide material components. It can be quite effective when used in conjunction with a reservoir of physical prowess. See, the reservoir begins every PFS session full; lets you use it without having to con damage yourself.

Scarab Sages

A Ring of Spell Storing (Lesser if divine) can bypass the material cost of Animate Dead.

- First you cast the spell into the ring, choosing 0HD as you are not targeting a corpse.

- Next you cast Animate Dead from the ring, ignoring the material cost. As you choose all parameters when you cast the spell, You can choose any number of HD of corpses you are capable of animating, but it functions at minimum caster level. This can be mitigated with Heighten Spell, but it will also require upgrading the ring too.

Another option is a Staff of Dark Flame (47,000gp UE), or if you are not in PFS, craft a staff.


Animate Dead should be expensive when you consider what it does. An army or a really tough minion in some cases both. You add Bloody to a skeleton and in most cases it's a permanent minion. I have seen this spell abused at it was probably meant to and it's not pretty. You design an adventure for four people of x level suddenly you have twelve or more tackling the same monster. Challenging encounter becomes cake walk of treasure gathering. It's more difficult considering most adventures you face evil clerics and wizards who lack Positive Channel the one sure way to kill all those minions.
From a GM's perspective I hate that spell with a passion. Had a player who always played a Caster who got it and then just started raising an army. Even low level burning skeletons are devastating to an encounter. Surround the monster stand there doing 1d6 fire damage per skeleton, barbecued monster anyone. With higher more powerful skeletons they could inflict even more damage.
From a player's perspective what's not to love about an army of undead. You go from a weak rather weak AC mage to walking death. Two more powerful skeletal bodyguards and low level army and you can clear a dungeon almost by yourself.


Lesser Animate Dead from Ultimate Magic lets you create basic skeletons and zombies for free. This will be sufficient for the bulk of not evil necromantic purposes: drawing a cart, simple manual labor, ablative armor, carrying their lord and master on a throne or litter, etc...


Not really it's work like Animate Dead with this exception " only create a single Small or Medium skeleton or zombie. "

its not free :)


I swear, I could have sworn there was some feat I read that allowed an arcane caster to use a holy symbol as their focus, and it let them bypass material costs up to a certain point... For the life of me, I can't find it though.


yep there is http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus


PłentaX wrote:
yep there is http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus

There you go. Its not a perfect solution, and you won't be making and massive undead undercraft carriers out of purple worms, but if you just want to be able to raise zombies at will? Its not horrid.

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