RP in PFO

[Milo Goodfellow]

I was thinking the other day that there hasn't been an actual thread or discussion (to my knowledge) concerning Role Play in PFO. I am a big Rper and have enjoyed many a good RP in the TT game. In MMO's, even on RP servers, I find that while RP exists, it tends to be limited and few/far between. My hope is that with the playstyle and gameplay that is desired and expected in PFO, RP can flourish quite well here. I really think that some interesting situations and events can occur if RP is supported and encouraged.

That being said, I don't think RP should be forced or needed to enjoy the game. If you just wanna play and don't wanna RP, then do so and happy gaming to you. It is my belief that if people who WANT to RP can do so, the game will be that much more enjoyable. Weather it is interactions between fellow competing merchants, a warrior looking for work as a guard on a caravan, or bandits issuing a SAD, doing so through RP can lead to extra fun. Encountering another group of players while out hunting escalating enemies, or looking for a dungeon to raid, do you talk, fight, or ignore each other? Any other game, you just walk past and ignore, but here, we truly have an opportunity to RP the encounter and maybe make friends, enemies, or rivals.

Getting back to the topic, My goal for this thread is to discuss the interest and desire to bring quality RP to PFO. Will this be just another MMO where everyone just plays and ignores anyone else that they don't need to interact with (through PVP or selling/trading ect.), or will PFO be full of interactions above and beyond the "norm?"

[avari3]

The alignment system is going to take some tweaks that could take years to get right. But RP'ers have got to be excited to have a game that revolves so heavily around the alignment system. It has a chance to be a sophisticated integration of RP to multiplayer game play.

[Tigari]

I too would enjoy some RP in a MMO. I don't have a lot of experience doing it, WoW being the only online game I've even tried to RP with (big mistake. Most of it is a joke, even on the RP servers. On a side note, I see "TT game" a lot, what is it?

[JMecha]

TT = Table Top

PnP = Pen and Paper

[Tigari]

JMecha wrote:

TT = Table Top

PnP = Pen and Paper

Ah, got it. Thanks!

[Hobs the Short]

Milo,

Part of the problem with games in last 5-10 years is that few provide any in-game tools or incentives for RP (I don't mean rewards). Theme park games focus so much on powering up through levels, racing through dungeons, and raiding, that there is little "benefit" seen in spending time role-playing. Even role-play events are often viewed as occasional novelties run within the cloisters of RP guilds rather than part of fabric of the game-world itself.

In response to that, I would say that developing a deep, rich character and interacting with your game-world from that perspective is benefit and enjoyment aplenty, both for you and those with whom you interact. Personally, I never separated my MMO game-play from my role-play. I am always acting and reacting in-character when using "Say" chat. Unlike some people who will actually ask, "Does anyone want to role-play?" I don't have a time when I'm not, and I think it is true with a good many others. Given the crossover from the table-top game into PFO, I think it will be even more true in this MMO.

Now, does this mean I expect others to RP? No. I've never had a problem interacting in-character with those who aren't, and there's always tells and other chat channels to talk out-of-character if necessary. But then, that's how many first find their way into RP...by the welcoming examples modeled by more experienced role-players.

avari3,

Actually, many of the prospective PFO RPers I've chatted with would rather do away with the alignment system and let our role-play and peoples' reaction to our actions make our alignment clear (coupled with some sort of reputation system). Back in UO, we had no alignment system, only a single flagging/reputation system, but the community was close knit enough that we all pretty well knew who the good guys and bad guys were.

[Harad Navar]

RP discussions could be facilitated on the PFOfan TS channel. Voice will give depth to RP and we could discuss how we would role play successfully, share techniques on improving background story, even share background and have others provide comments. Just a thought.

[avari3]

Hobs the Short wrote:

avari3,

Actually, many of the prospective PFO RPers I've chatted with would rather do away with the alignment system and let our role-play and peoples' reaction to our actions make our alignment clear (coupled with some sort of reputation system). Back in UO, we had no alignment system, only a single flagging/reputation system, but the community was close knit enough that we all pretty well knew who the good guys and bad guys were.

That is probably exactly why RP has not worked in MMO's. It's always depended on a tight knit community and self policing. This is a pretty bold attempt to integrate RP into the fabric of the game design. I think it's definitely the next step from criminal flagging.

[Hardin Steele]

Eventually more and more tools will be implemented that will facilitate RPing. The inns and taverns where bards can perform, players can gamble and shady corners will have players conspiring on their next nefarious deal. The gypsy caravans can be fleshed out where events can occur, theater can be performed, or songs around the fire can be sung and danced to.

These tools will take some time, but there is great promise in the possibilities. I think the experience gain model will help a great deal as well. Players will not feel like they are losing out on leveling since they will be gaining XPs whether they are fighting monsters or not, so can spend more time RPing while still gaining XP.

[Crimson Commander: Deacon Wulf]

I know that I'm personally looking forward to an all IC playstyle. As I have read it looks to me as if it will be pretty easy to stay in-character throughout all your dealings in the game. As Hardin points out, the experience system will allow more free time to the players to flesh out their characters in all realms, and hopefully this allows the RP community to pick up a few new players.

[HalfOrc with a Hat of Disguise]

Well, consider it's going to be a 'leisurely' leveling process, like EvE, so grinding till your fingers bleed isn't going to take up all our time.

Yes, for the first few weeks/months, we're gonna be pounding away at the NPCs, and occasionally each other, but until then it's doubtful we'll start to make much of an impression on the world.

Six months in, probably gonna have our first PC-Founded/Sponsored Settlements, players will reach a point where they feel they are 'combat ready' and will start to focus on Non-Combat skills, and Crafters might decide now is the time to bump up their offensive abilities.

That's when I think we'll start to really get our teeth into RP, when we've 'established' ourselves in the game, and feel confident enough to take a step back from our power-acquisitions and actually become our characters.

[Deianira]

Harad Navar wrote:

RP discussions could be facilitated on the PFOfan TS channel. Voice will give depth to RP and we could discuss how we would role play successfully, share techniques on improving background story, even share background and have others provide comments. Just a thought.

Seconded! This would be very helpful for someone like me who's never played Pathfinder, in getting some background information right. Plus, it's really nice to chat instead of post blocks of text at each other on the forums.

And yes, I intend to be IC as much as possible with Deianira. Given the emphasis on group activity, player interaction and time-based (rather than quickly grinded) leveling, there should be plenty of time for socializing/threatening/scheming with others.

[Bluddwolf]

I will be role playing my characters' personalities, beliefs and goals.

Bluddwolf is a CN Bandit. He is tenacious; a scrapper; capable of mercy and atoricity; Loyal and generous to friends; Respectful to those enemies that return respect; Free spirited and anti-establishment; Brazen and arrogant. Greedy and jealous of what others have, so he covets what they have. Anti hypocritical, he sees politicians and merchants as being greater thieves than bandits are.

These are just a few of the character beliefs and traits that I will attempt to role play with this character.

[Amaziah Hadithi]

Big time rper here playing a Paladin of Sarenrae, looking forward to meeting all the other rpers!

[T7V Avari]

Looks like RP is going to be pretty healthy, at least in EE.

[wills4223]

I will be role playing as well. I intend to play a chaotic evil necromancer. A worshiper of Urgothoa. Devoted and obsessed with his art to distraction.

[Fidelis Shane Gifford]

Hah, look up there, it's Deacon Wolf back before he became the Lich King! :D

[wills4223]

I don't think the demon lords will be represented, or I would be devotee of Orcus. Orcus is always a fun guy.

[Tertiary]

What nearly every MMO lacks, which astounds me even more in DDO, Neverwinter, and even Neverwinter Nights (1&2), is the ability to easily convey your character through the game. In-line target-terms and graphic emote commands are two things that should be easy to code which are neglected too often.

Example:

/em The scritch-screatch of wood against stone echoes quietly in the empty tavern when ~self ^sit @table. #self ^read @tome_of_insight, idly turning the pages while he waits for ~barkeeper's attention.

Text Output (bolded words are hyper-linked):

The scritch-screatch of wood against stone echoes quietly in the empty tavern when Tertiary sits at the table. He reads a tome of insight, idly turning the pages while he waits for Blumpkis Sourstone's attention.

Visual Output:

Character sits at a table. Character removes book from hammer-space and can be seen reading it.

[Lifedragn]

It has been stated that animations are something that are not trivial to add. There was a huge thread about being able to sit in chairs that really went nowhere.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Grickin (or Gricki—there's a chance he will end up being a she) will be roleplayed constantly, save for particular circumstances. I'm very excited to play "them".

[Lord Zodd]

Emotes and social clothing go a long way towards assisting with RP in a MMO.

Personally I will be RPing Zodd, and any other characters I have, as much as possible, because it enriches the experience for me.

[Nolondil Leafrunner]

Hobs the Short wrote:

Actually, many of the prospective PFO RPers I've chatted with would rather do away with the alignment system and let our role-play and peoples' reaction to our actions make our alignment clear (coupled with some sort of reputation system). Back in UO, we had no alignment system, only a single flagging/reputation system, but the community was close knit enough that we all pretty well knew who the good guys and bad guys were.

The benefit of Alignment is to put some consistency in the game and not have to rely purely on the willingness of RPers. One of the (many) things that bothered me to no end on WoW (yes I *tried* to RP on WoW T.T) was that the game mechanisms and the faction system was completely broken in favor of "game-balance" rather than lore consistency. This was hugely detrimental to the immersion. In PFO an assassin or a necromancer must choose an evil alignment and a paladin a good one. Your character actions *will* impact your alignment.

This brilliant choice by GW won't bother much those not interested in RPing but will do a lot to help those who want to RP.
Of course, alignment can also be detrimental to sophisticated RPing, an LE or NE Elf should be able to be a denizen of our Elven Settlement (CG) and that will not be possible.
However I recognize that PFO is not PnP and cannot implement all the subtleties and freedom of player choice that a human DM would allow. And my conclusion is that the potential benefit of alignment in the game in regards to RP is far greater than any of these drawbacks.

[Amaziah Hadithi]

I'm liking the sound of the alignment system. Honestly I don't want to see people breaking alignments when they are playing certain classes, especially. clerics.

One of the worst things about rping in TOR was seeing Jedi and Sith all buddy up having beers in taverns.

Alignment system? Hell yes, more for me please

"Oh but I'm a good Paladin of Rovagug! I don't know why my character and your Paladin of Sarenrae can't be friends"

Please go away....

Sorry but I'd like players at least have to try to follow the lore and know why who hates who. Breaking lore in certain ways just is such an immersion breaker and takes away from the environment.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Uh, I think necromancers don't have to be evil in PFO. Which is good, because neutral necromancers are perfectly possible in Golarion. Heck, I'm sure there's even a good corpse animator or two. That's ignoring loopholes like Juju oracles, of course.

[Ravenlute]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Uh, I think necromancers don't have to be evil in PFO. Which is good, because neutral necromancers are perfectly possible in Golarion. Heck, I'm sure there's even a good corpse animator or two. That's ignoring loopholes like Juju oracles, of course.

A Necromancer might not have a Core Alignment of Evil, but the moment they start raising undead their Active Alignment will swing toward Evil.

[Kobold Catgirl]

What's the source on that?

[<Magistry> Toombstone]

Well in the blog I Shot a Man in Reno Just to Watch Him Die they mention, when talking about acquiring the Heinous Flag:

Blog wrote:

Heinous

The character has committed an act that is universally viewed as evil, such as raising and controlling undead, using slaves to build structures or gather resources, etc.

While I think the flag system described in the blog is out of date, it at least shows how necromancy (or at least, raising the undead) is probably going to be viewed as an evil act.

[Nolondil Leafrunner]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

What's the source on that?

Straigh from the mouth of the Goblin:

Ryan wrote:

Committing acts that are outright evil, like raising undead, gets you the Heinous flag and decreases your Good vs. Evil rating.

Now I'm not completely familiar with Golarion's Lore, but I am surprized that Raising Undead is not an evil act, what's the source on that ?

[Malik]

In Pathfinder PNP lore, you can be N and raise dead. But its not common or easy to explain in a RP fashion. For PFO, the heinous flag basically makes it a evil act. Which I am totally fine with.

As far as role playing goes,I hope to see more of it in PFO than other MMOs that I have played. I think with this involved and passionate community the chance for good RP are available.

[CBDunkerson]

Nolondil Leafrunner wrote:

Now I'm not completely familiar with Golarion's Lore, but I am surprized that Raising Undead is not an evil act, what's the source on that ?

Raising undead on Golarion generally is an evil act... but there are some niche cases. For example, juju zombies are corpses given locomotion by a plant... they aren't really 'undead' in the usual sense. Certainly 'icky', but not necessarily evil.

[T7V Jazzlvraz]

I've always thought that for tabletop Pathfinder, it's a matter of cool; people want to raise undead, but many tables don't allow evil play nor players. Balance: "raising dead isn't necessarily evil", but it's a mechanical, not a completely RP-explainable, thing.

[Tertiary]

Lifedragn wrote:

It has been stated that animations are something that are not trivial to add. There was a huge thread about being able to sit in chairs that really went nowhere.

I only meant that the animations that do exist should be able to be triggered in line. Instead of having to type an /me and then type /sit you could do it all at once.

Nolondil Leafrunner wrote:

The benefit of Alignment is to put some consistency in the game and not have to rely purely on the willingness of RPers. One of the (many) things that bothered me to no end on WoW (yes I *tried* to RP on WoW T.T) was that the game mechanisms and the faction system was completely broken in favor of "game-balance" rather than lore consistency. This was hugely detrimental to the immersion. In PFO an assassin or a necromancer must choose an evil alignment and a paladin a good one. Your character actions *will* impact your alignment.

That was the best thing about Asheron's Call; every game change was explained in/consistent with the lore.

Nolondil Leafrunner wrote:

Now I'm not completely familiar with Golarion's Lore, but I am surprized that Raising Undead is not an evil act, what's the source on that?

Casting a spell with the 'Evil' descriptor (like create undead) does not make you evil, much like casting a spell with the 'Good' descriptor does not make you good (although, in PFRPG most spells with the 'Good' descriptor are only available to good or neutral clerics.) A lot of that is because alignment is left a bit more vague in PnP and your actual alignment is more of a contract between you and the GM than it is an actual 'fact.' Some GMs run it differently than others, of course, but in PnP it is a hotly debated and still hazy subject.

------------------------------------------

Has anyone compiled a list of "best-practices" for RP in PFO?

[Kobold Catgirl]

Malik wrote:

In Pathfinder PNP lore, you can be N and raise dead. But its not common or easy to explain in a RP fashion.

Eh, I've seen a fair few. As long as you use the undead for harmless or good ends, you can easily avoid being Evil. It creates some very interesting characters to roleplay, since they're constantly being tempted towards evil.

I've played multiple games with Neutral necromancers. All lots of fun.

[Mirrel the Marvelous]

CBDunkerson wrote:

Nolondil Leafrunner wrote:

Now I'm not completely familiar with Golarion's Lore, but I am surprized that Raising Undead is not an evil act, what's the source on that ?

Raising undead on Golarion generally is an evil act... but there are some niche cases. For example, juju zombies are corpses given locomotion by a plant... they aren't really 'undead' in the usual sense. Certainly 'icky', but not necessarily evil.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Yellow Musk Zombies? Juju Zombies are created by the powers of Spirits (whose actual alignment is deliberately left vague) or so I believe.

[KotC Carbon D. Metric]

Raising the Undead in Pathfinder TT game is unequivocally considered Evil, with a few corner case as has been mentioned, simply out of the fact that they come with an (Evil) tag descriptor in all undead-related spells.

[CBDunkerson]

Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

Are you sure you're not thinking of Yellow Musk Zombies? Juju Zombies are created by the powers of Spirits (whose actual alignment is deliberately left vague) or so I believe.

Right you are. I got my 'alternative zombie lifestyles' mixed up. :]

Basically, 'negative energy animation' = evil... 'other forms of animation' = not necessarily evil.

[Kobold Catgirl]

It is considered Evil, but you don't have to be Evil to do it.

Regardless, I accept that any Good or Neutral necromancers will have to be careful not to slip down to Evil. That "source?" wasn't me doubting the info's veracity. We probably shouldn't get sidetrekked arguing about Pathfinder morality.

[CosmicKirby]

I intend to have one of my Destiny Twin characters, my Halfling Monk be always in character, while the other one (as of yet undecided) will be in character only when I feel like it. Looking forward to how RP will play out in practice with the ever changing geography of settlements and the like.

[Buurz the Fishwife]

Buurz's goat-drawn vardo comes to a suddent halt, waking the old crone from a deep and peaceful sleep. Grumpy and confused, she opens the door to investigate and finds a young man in the middle of the road preaching for people to roleplay in Pathfinder. Puzzled, she waddles over to the strange little man.

Hey 'ye little odd elf, what you going on about aye?! Silly slattern, Old Buurz has no time to be pretending! I got me magical wares to sell, me mead to drink and evil witches to hunt! Out me way before I make a toad outta you!

Buurz mutters a few curses before turning to waddle back to her vardo.

[The Sun Rises in the East]

*Feels proud of himself for ressurrecting this thread*

[ChaiGuy]

The Sun Rises in the East wrote:

*Feels proud of himself for ressurrecting this thread*

Congratulations, you get this heinous flag and your alignment may be EVIL. ;P