The ridiculous gestalt thread

[Azten]

Rules for Gestalt. Because some things just need to be clear(like that 59 caster level Mystic Theurge up thread).

[Daelen]

Factotum 20//MoMS Monk 2/Kensai Magus 18, using Kung Fu Genius for Int to AC for Monk. A literal reading of it would suggest that you wouldn't even need Turn Undead as a feat to use the Opportunistic Piety ability for the Factotum, but that might change depending on DM. Plus, after 8 levels in Factotum, you can full attack to use spell combat, then use 3 inspiration points for an extra standard action for another spell if you need it. Every time you get a feat that you don't need something else for, take Font of Inspiration so you're not burning through your inspiration points as rapidly.

[nate lange]

Azten, part of me is really glad that you linked those rules (there are clearly some folks who aren't familiar with stacking vs. overlapping bonuses...) that said, here's a build that totally ignores the recommendation against prestige classes that combine multiple class abilities (though it follows all the other rules, and isn't as abusive as some of those combos):

1-5: warblade 1-5/(PF) wizard 1-5
6-10: abjurant champion 1-5/kensai (magus) 1-5
11-20: eldritch knight 1-10/kensai 6-15

you end up +20 BAB, all the spells of level 19 wiz and 15 magus (take broad study to use them all with spell combat/spellstrike), both of which will be at CL 20 (use Magical Knack for wizard and Martial Arcanist, from AC, for magus)- plus a lot of Int synergy.

[robert best 549]

nate lange wrote:

Azten, part of me is really glad that you linked those rules (there are clearly some folks who aren't familiar with stacking vs. overlapping bonuses...) that said, here's a build that totally ignores the recommendation against prestige classes that combine multiple class abilities (though it follows all the other rules, and isn't as abusive as some of those combos):

1-5: warblade 1-5/(PF) wizard 1-5
6-10: abjurant champion 1-5/kensai (magus) 1-5
11-20: eldritch knight 1-10/kensai 6-15

you end up +20 BAB, all the spells of level 19 wiz and 15 magus (take broad study to use them all with spell combat/spellstrike), both of which will be at CL 20 (use Magical Knack for wizard and Martial Arcanist, from AC, for magus)- plus a lot of Int synergy.

This is a book keepers nightmare but it would be so incredibly awesome.

[christos gurd]

Such is the beauty of this thread.

[nate lange]

Daelen wrote:

Factotum 20//MoMS Monk 2/Kensai Magus 18...

you know, that reminded me of something- this wouldn't be as powerful as a lot of the builds on here, but in terms of the ultimate jack of all trades... imagine a Factotum 20//Binder 10/Chameleon 10! i played a binder/chameleon for a little while- with a day to prepare you really could pretend to be anyone/fill any role; combine that with the immediate versatility of the factotum and you really could do anything :)

[Daelen]

Assuming Mystic Theurge is NOT allowed, Archivist(3.5)//Wizard(PF). I can have all the spells, and mostly only need Int. Wisdom is nice for bonus archivist spells, but its also good for Will saves so I consider that a win.

[Azten]

Prestige classes are allowed, they just take up both "slots" when using Gestalt rules.

Example
Side A: Wizard 10
Side B: Cleric 10
Both Sides: Mystic Theurge 10
Level: 20

Or

Side A: Fighter 6
Side B: Ranger 6
Both Sides: Horizon Walker 1
Level: 7

[christos gurd]

Azten wrote:

Prestige classes are allowed, they just take up both "slots" when using Gestalt rules.

Example
Side A: Wizard 10
Side B: Cleric 10
Both Sides: Mystic Theurge 10
Level: 20

Or

Side A: Fighter 6
Side B: Ranger 6
Both Sides: Horizon Walker 1
Level: 7

thats why in my home games we run each gestalt combination as its own class. Less stacking madness.

[robert best 549]

christos gurd wrote:

Azten wrote:

Prestige classes are allowed, they just take up both "slots" when using Gestalt rules.

Example
Side A: Wizard 10
Side B: Cleric 10
Both Sides: Mystic Theurge 10
Level: 20

Or

Side A: Fighter 6
Side B: Ranger 6
Both Sides: Horizon Walker 1
Level: 7

thats why in my home games we run each gestalt combination as its own class. Less stacking madness.

Like D&D 4e hybrid classes? Because I could see how that could work.

[christos gurd]

Sorta, i guess...yeah i have no idea. I just treat a rogue/fighter levels as different from a rogue/barb. Clas abilities from the same class also don't stack.

[Atarlost]

Azten wrote:

Prestige classes are allowed, they just take up both "slots" when using Gestalt rules.

Example
Side A: Wizard 10
Side B: Cleric 10
Both Sides: Mystic Theurge 10
Level: 20

Or

Side A: Fighter 6
Side B: Ranger 6
Both Sides: Horizon Walker 1
Level: 7

Quote:

A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.

So MT isn't allowed at all (it's mentioned by name) but Horizon Walker only occupies one side of the gestalt.

Pathfinder has additional "Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such" that 3.5 lacks (bard+cavalier=battle-herald and barbarian+oracle=rage-prophet) that should be prohibited even though they're not explicitly listed.

[nate lange]

what about a (PF)Barbarian (or fighter)/incarnate or totemist... the soulmelds (if i recall correctly) gave a lot of static bonuses and passive/constant abilities (all of which would stack nicely with what a barb has/does, and all would work during rage).

i'm playing in a gestalt campaign right now and we use the rule that any prestige class takes up 'both sides' (though you're welcome to take hybrids like EK or MT), but i believe that's a house rule... as atarlost pointed out, valid prestige classes should (by the rules) only occupy one side (so a pally/gold dragon sorcerer could go into dragon disciple and keep leveling as a pally/DD, just for example). of course, then you have to consider/debate which PrCs are 'hybrid' (EK is called out specifically but what about the arcane archer- they get full BAB and 7/10 casting... are they a hybrid?)

[christos gurd]

I love incarnum classes for gestalt. Lessens gear dependence.

[Corlindale]

Incarnate (good)//Empyreal Sorceror

A nice combo for both fluff and power. Wisdom-dependency for both classes - incarnate helps compensate for the weak defenses of the sorceror while sorceror spells compensate for the (relatively) weaker offense of the incarnate. And fluffwise it makes excellent sense to wield the magic of the angels while channeling good souls for defense and other powers.

But as others have said, incarnum classes combo pretty well with almost everything.

[Srial]

I've always wanted to do a Monk/Ninja gestalt. Take all the dimensional feats that let you be your own flanker when using your dimension door ability. Watch the sneak attacks roll in without needing anyone else or any elaborate setup.

[Azten]

Infinite Healing at level TWO: vitalist/alchemist.

How does this allow for infinite healing? Quite easily, actually. Take the Tumor Familiar discovery and add the familiar to your collective. Spread the Fast Healing 5 it gets when attached to you to who ever needs it.

[KahnyaGnorc]

Synthesist/Rogue or /ninja . . . Dimensional Assault into flanking for sneak attack damage on all your natural attacks, while at the same time having a high Int (due to having Eidolon's physical stats) to combine spells with an insane number of skills for out-of-combat stuff.

[Baron Ulfhamr]

I have a Summoner (Shadow Caller)/Rogue-Shadowdancer. It is full of penumbral goodness.

[Azten]

Wild Rager Barbarian / Ragechemist Alchemist.

Hulk smash!!!

[christos gurd]

Duskblade seems with mentioning somewhere. Bonus points if you pair it with sorcerer. Orc or abyssal blows can help (eventually) with strength and i like the orcs touch of rage.

[Lord Foul II]

I love paladin/magus
Divine bond + arcana pool
Between your martial abilities an your two spell lists you can pretty much do anything
If you want to take it one step further, take a monk dip, then go champion of iori
You win

[christos gurd]

Lord Foul II wrote:

I love paladin/magus

Divine bond + arcana pool
Between your martial abilities an your two spell lists you can pretty much do anything
If you want to take it one step further, take a monk dip, then go champion of iori
You win

sounds like mad MADness, still could be fun if you could manage the stats.

[Lord Foul II]

If you want a defensive version of that build go
Magus 15 (Kensi/war weaver) abjurant champion 5 paladin 1-4 monk 9-6 (weapon adept, possibly also sohei) champion of iori

Required magic items headband of mental superiority+6 monk robes
Your AC is 10+9 (armor from Mage armor, lasts 30- 32 hours)+9 (shield from shield spell) +4+3+intelligence+dexterity+wisdom
AC 35 +3 stats
And that's touch AC
Flat foot is lower but still pretty high

The ultimate archer build is fun
Ranger (trapper/falconer) 11 magus(Myrmidarch) 4, sorcerer (Orc maybe?) or wizard (evoker) 1, arcane archer 10, then go zen archer for the rest of it

So your arrows deal base damage as per your unarmed strike +enchantments+a touch spell+an aoe spell+a trap+stunning+any special non magical arrow ability/material you want, and there are several nice ones
Anyone you hit is kinda screwed
And you can flurry your arrows for more fun
Required magic items
Ki focus bow (and any other enchantment you want,) headband of +6 mental stats, quiver enchanted with continuous abundant ammunition, belt of the monk, robe of the monk

[Clifford "Cliff" Barton]

Just imagine, a flurry of shocking, holy, bestow curse, fireball bleeding adamanite arrows, with a behive straped to the ends, that hit as hard as a monk's fist and stun you,

And if you're a drow, poision on top of that
And this my friend is hawkeye (if he had magic)

[Hobgoblin Shogun]

I'd like something with witch and full BAB. Not sure what to use though.

[Atarlost]

Scarred Witch Doctor Barbarian.

[Shadowdweller]

Barbarian/Sorcerer (or Oracle) with the Superstition rage power. Character has these inborn or involuntary powers that scare him/her, but are sooooo tempting to use on occasion.

[Sir Thugsalot]

I would so be a halfling cleric/rogue: saving throws perfectly interleave, and full caster combined with a rogue's complete suite of goodies. Can nova a half-dozen different ways, or just disappear.

[Kenji Elindir]

Synthesist Summoner + Sylvan Sorcerer. Aspect of the dragon on your animal companion, and get 3 flying pouncing death machines.

[lantzkev]

I would definatly say the master of many styles monk + synthesist summoner with feral training and tentacles.... I'm sure it's been said before but yeah... ignore capstone of monk and pick up two lvls of paladin while you're at it.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

nate lange wrote:

Daelen wrote:

Factotum 20//MoMS Monk 2/Kensai Magus 18...

you know, that reminded me of something- this wouldn't be as powerful as a lot of the builds on here, but in terms of the ultimate jack of all trades... imagine a Factotum 20//Binder 10/Chameleon 10! i played a binder/chameleon for a little while- with a day to prepare you really could pretend to be anyone/fill any role; combine that with the immediate versatility of the factotum and you really could do anything :)

Aagh, you beat me to it!

I really love Pact Magic - it's like D&D turning around, looking back at the '80s, and giving a giant middle finger to Jack Chick.

Here are a few other combinations I would mention:

Binder/Incarnate - again, can do practically anything, and they both place an exceptional demand on Constitution

Binder/Soulborn - as above, but with MORE hit points and warrior ability, and much less pressure for a high Wisdom score, in exchange for some overall versatility

Binder/Summoner - "Yessss, I got friends on the Other Side - as well as Sides you ain't never heard of...." Note that both of these classes potentially benefit well from all ability scores, least of all Wisdom and most of all Charisma

Binder/Warlock - "Half of me makes oaths, the other half breaks them! HA-HA!" Seriously, though, this is the one gestalt character I've ever actually played (too bad that game crashed and burned for various reasons), and it's a good combination - both benefit from a high Charisma, and their class features, and the assets and limitations thereof, complement each other marvelously

[Lord Foul II]

Take sorscerer (eragorn bloodline)/oracle with sutra caster feat
If you are allowed to do so you could go one step further going mystic thurge and use those ten levels to get more spell casting levels perhaps psion or wilder or artificer, though if you do you are going to want a different bloodline, maybe umbral and take eldritch heritage to get the 1st lvl eragon bloodline power
"I go to sleep with more spells than most start the day with"

[Azten]

Dwarven Monk(Martial Artist) / Barbarian with the Superstitious rage power line.

Feat: Steel Soul
Trait: Glory of Old.

With a Dex, Con, and Wis of 14(as an example) your saving throws at 2nd level are as follows.

Fort: +5
Reflex: +5
Will: +5

Vs poison Fort: +8
Vs spells/spell-like abilities Fort/Ref/Will: +9
-> Raging: +11

Bring it on, spell casters.

[CalethosVB]

In a recent game, I played a Warblade 1, Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) 16, Sorcerer Crossblooded Draconic/Elemental 10, Swordsage 1, Eldritch Knight 1, Dragon Disciple 10. We didn't use the additional "tracks" or "sides" rules, so when I got to a point in DD where I didn't gain career level / spells, I also the in a level of Sorcerer and Fighter when I got regular progression again. Focused on a tremendous tooth and claw build that worked through Feral Combat Training, Superior Unarmed Strike (Book of 9 Swords), Improved Natural Attack, and ultimately Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike. MAD as all getout, but we got to work with something on the scale of a 30-35 point build.

[Davor]

There was a 3.5 splat book, can't remember the name, that introduced probably the most overtly broken class I've ever seen. It was intended for Monsters, but players could qualify for it with a simple, permanent Enlarge Person. Instead of granting +1 BAB every level, it granted +2 Strength per level, of a 10 level prestige class.

Also, Factotum/Bard. Ah, so much of EVERYTHING.

[gracefulArmageddon]

Has Soulknife/Magus been mentioned yet? That's something I've wanted to try for a while. << >>

[Azten]

Bard/Inquisitor with Knowledge Devotion(from Complete Champion).

Maenad(Dreamscarred Press) Paladin/Barbarian. Let your righteous fury smite the evil doers of the world.

Maenad Paladin(Shining Knight)/Barbarian(Mounted Fury) for killing from horseback!

[gracefulArmageddon]

Azten wrote:

Bard/Inquisitor with Knowledge Devotion(from Complete Champion).

Maenad(Dreamscarred Press) Paladin/Barbarian. Let your righteous fury smite the evil doers of the world.

Maenad Paladin(Shining Knight)/Barbarian(Mounted Fury) for killing from horseback!

AM BARBARADIN?

[Lord Foul II]

gracefulArmageddon wrote:

Has Soulknife/Magus been mentioned yet? That's something I've wanted to try for a while. << >>

same here, now if you can convince a dm to let the black blade of a blade bound magus to take the form of a crystalline hilt... you're awesome

though in gestalt I would always take a dip in agies so I could then take the soulforge prestige class, and then because with prestige classes such as that manifesting increases but psychic strike does not, the gifted blade archtype is almost mandatory,

so optimized build magus (blade bound, possibly kensi) 19-20/ageis 3/soulknife (gifted blade/shielded blade, possibly also armored blade) 6-7/soul forge 10/pyrokineticist 1
be sure to take the blade talent that makes it so you get full enchantment bonus on every item.

if kensi magus is 20, if not 19
true magus is not all that powerful of a capstone, almost every archetype that replaces it does it better

the pyrokineticist lvl is for the extra 1d8 fire damage and 15ft reach to your blade
important stats, wisdom followed by intelegance (if you take the blade skill that gives you your wisdom bonus to hit and damage, and are not kensi, if you have/are both they are equally important,) dex and con are as always useful
Dump Str and Cha

[Sir Thugsalot]

Paladin/Sohei for the toughest mount in the game. Hell, it'll be tougher than you.

[Lord Foul II]

why not paladin/druid? or summoner
perhaps paladin/sohei with the eldritch heritage that grants an AC

[Sir Thugsalot]

Sohei get Weapon Training. -- Imagine a paladin smiting with Gloves of Dueling and WF/WS. (I'd use a temple sword as my main weapon, and take all monk weapons as my WT group.) Now multiclass Tempest, or whatever that 3rd ed. PrC was which let you spread your weapon feats to anything you're using.

Yikes.

[Lord Foul II]

Ah I was talking shearly for the mount's ability
And really to max out mount, be an aasimar take the celestial servant feat

[Lord Foul II]

I never liked soehi
They loose most of the things that make them monks

[Azten]

Lord Foul II wrote:

why not paladin/druid? or summoner

perhaps paladin/sohei with the eldritch heritage that grants an AC

Because Druids have to be Neutral in some way.

[christos gurd]

Not a problem in my home games.

[Lord Foul II]

True forgot about that
Rangers don't though
Neither do clerics with the nature domain
Or sylvan sorcerers

[nate lange]

umm... earlier in this thread i already posted what i'm pretty sure is the best possible (legal) mount build- at least the best i've seen so far...

its right here, in case you missed it :)

(its a full progression animal companion that gains rage, all three beast totem rage powers, and all the benefits of the monastic mount ability of a 14th level sohei- plus the rider ain't half bad, lol)

[Lord Foul II]

Couldn't you do better with summoner?