Noobie to Pathfinder and Tabletop RPGs in General, two questions...


Beginner Box

Liberty's Edge

My first post and starting to search and look over the many messages posted here, sorry if there are repeated questions.

I'm new to the whole Paper (Table Top) RPG genre. I have played computer RPGs, so I have a basic understanding of the RPG world and concepts. New to the Pathfinder game and have purchased the Beginner Box and the Core Rules book (also in PDF which I love). My questions are:

1) I know there is the built-in adventure in the Beginner Box, but I was wondering where to go next? Are there some campaigns here or via third-parties that are good for first level characters and better for beginner players (both the GM and players)? If so, any recommendations or links to these resources. Just overwhelmed with so many choices that I would love to learn from the wisdom of others.

2) The second is that I have a younger (10 almost 11) year-old daughter who is interested in this whole paper RPG games, and has experience with Magic the Gathering card game. Any campaigns which are more kid friendly (not sure if such exist)?


Quella, as to your first question: Yes, there are third-party beginner box adventures. 0one Games has some (that's zero-one), and there was recent a Store Blog post that highlighted others (it's the Weds May 1 entry; I'm not smart enough to figure out the web address).

As for younger gamers, I'm at a bit of a loss. I string together modules for a 12 and 14 year old, and just keep out anything that might be objectionable. But the 12 year old quickly discovered the "loot the bodies!" bandwagon.

Also, don't be afraid of forgetting the rules. Better to make up a ruling on the spot and look it up later, after the game. Because your players will . . . WILL . . . try to put together a plan that the rules don't cover. Especially children. Super-creative minds that aren't bound by knowledge of the "rules."

Liberty's Edge

Thanks Doug's Workshop for the quick reply to my general and I'm sure dumb questions. I was not sure how to go about selecting a new adventure that would be somewhat age correct (all but sexual content would be fine). She does not have issues with fighting, killing, etc. due to video games or CRPGs. I just read that some material had NSFW (which I assume is more sexual in nature and not just violence. I just want to take it slow and safe, but welcomed any ideas on a next step once we complete the initial beginner adventure.

Doug's Workshop wrote:

Quella, as to your first question: Yes, there are third-party beginner box adventures. 0one Games has some (that's zero-one), and there was recent a Store Blog post that highlighted others (it's the Weds May 1 entry; I'm not smart enough to figure out the web address).

As for younger gamers, I'm at a bit of a loss. I string together modules for a 12 and 14 year old, and just keep out anything that might be objectionable. But the 12 year old quickly discovered the "loot the bodies!" bandwagon.

Also, don't be afraid of forgetting the rules. Better to make up a ruling on the spot and look it up later, after the game. Because your players will . . . WILL . . . try to put together a plan that the rules don't cover. Especially children. Super-creative minds that aren't bound by knowledge of the "rules."


My live group is currently playing through Rise of the Runelords with an eleven-year-old (his 9-year-old sister has recently begun sitting with us while we play, as well). It works out pretty well. There have been some sexual themes, but we tend to tone them down and/or omit them... it's not like the plot suffers for their lack.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks Oladon for your comments. I'm still learning what I can and cannot do with a given adventure or game. I'm still reading through the beginner materials, but want to be ready when or if she wants to progress quickly after the initial one. :)

Oladon wrote:

My live group is currently playing through Rise of the Runelords with an eleven-year-old (his 9-year-old sister has recently begun sitting with us while we play, as well). It works out pretty well. There have been some sexual themes, but we tend to tone them down and/or omit them... it's not like the plot suffers for their lack.


Apparently I remembered their ages incorrectly, or didn't take into account the time that has passed. :P

They're 12 and 11, respectively. Same idea, and no real difference one way or another, but integrity demanded that I correct the error!


Hey, I'm 40 years old and still don't mind my adventuring exploits staying at the PG level.

As I was thinking about it, I should also plug Raging Swan's "Shadowed Keep on the Borderlands." It's a pretty straight forward adventure, plenty of chances to beat stuff up, but chances for intelligent role-play as well.

Plus, if you don't like it, Raging Swan has a money-back guarantee.

Some of the Paizo stuff is stronger than I would like, but for the most part it can be removed without an issue. Failing that, you can look for adventures that have reviews written, and email the reviewer (or private-message him/her) to ask if the material is appropriate.

Personally, I'm a fan of some of the older-edition stuff (Village of Hommlet, Keep on the Borderlands, Secret of Bone Hill, Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh). It's not Pathfinder, but I prefer fewer rules. I think someone on the boards has a Pathfinder-ized version of the Keep on the Borderlands. A little searching may be in order.

Good luck.


Jade Regent is pretty good, i recommend having one of the PCs be the last amatatsu instead of how they have it, my daughter just turned 9 and i had same problem with beginner box adventure not enough. also as a bonus it starts (but does not stay) in the same town as the beginner box (you might even recognize some of the NPCs and artwork from the beginner box in the modules)

beyond Jade Regent,
Kingmaker is the best for kids (tho extremely hard to find in book format without being taken for a ride (scratch n dent from paizo would be the cheapest route there)
the feel of Kingmaker is very much old school-king arthur's court-robin hood-fairytale-esque.

Shattered Star is easily edited for kids, a few adult situations in book 2 and book 5 is creepy in a lovecraftian sort of way (tho no in bred country folk mating with aliens, more exploring leng and nightmares and what not)

my nephews are really digging Serpent's Skull and Carrion Crown, tho my daughter not as much (girls are less curious about vampires and werewolves and more afraid of them in experience, which is limited to my own as i had all brothers, who all loved horror, myself included)
Serpent's Skull is more indiana jones with a touch of pirates of the caribbean, tho book 3 requires you to make your own maps of buildings and such (look thru the message boards before investing in it, the reviews are needlessly harsh so take them with a grain of salt. personally i like Serpent's skull and its fun for kids (there are cannibals in first book but if handled cinematically or comically can be a memorable and fun encounter.

Skull & Shackles is also great for kids with some editing (especially in book 5)

adventure paths to avoid or i know nothing about
Rise of the Runelords, yes its the first ap however book 2 and 3 are pretty gruesome and hadrd to edit out with keeping story intact, also will encounter an area in book you'll want to change

Council of Thieves, a great adventure path (one of my favorites right now in fact) however it is more of a gritty urban path that'll be lost on younger kids

Reign of Winter has that whole dark russian fairytale thing going on and as such is not suitable for younger kids (so of course my daughter is REALLY excited to start it (edit the guardian hut in book one so the girl is rescued at the the end of book 1. also book 2 has a witch that feeds little kids to her troll "sons") just beware with this one.

no experience or knowledge of Legacy of Fire, Curse of the Crimson Throne or Second Darkness.

hope the wordiness helps, have fun adventuring, feel free to drop by with input on your decision or questions (i pretty much only run adventures for my kids, nephews and friends so i mostly GM for younger groups)

Liberty's Edge

Thanks again Doug's Workshop. It seems that the people in these forums are really wanting to help and not just make you troll (no pun intended) bait. All these suggestions get me excited and know there is a path that we can take as a family to keep it PG-(13) at times.

Doug's Workshop wrote:

Hey, I'm 40 years old and still don't mind my adventuring exploits staying at the PG level.

As I was thinking about it, I should also plug Raging Swan's "Shadowed Keep on the Borderlands." It's a pretty straight forward adventure, plenty of chances to beat stuff up, but chances for intelligent role-play as well.

Plus, if you don't like it, Raging Swan has a money-back guarantee.

Some of the Paizo stuff is stronger than I would like, but for the most part it can be removed without an issue. Failing that, you can look for adventures that have reviews written, and email the reviewer (or private-message him/her) to ask if the material is appropriate.

Personally, I'm a fan of some of the older-edition stuff (Village of Hommlet, Keep on the Borderlands, Secret of Bone Hill, Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh). It's not Pathfinder, but I prefer fewer rules. I think someone on the boards has a Pathfinder-ized version of the Keep on the Borderlands. A little searching may be in order.

Good luck.

Liberty's Edge

Captain Yesterday, what great suggestions and detailed post to my questions. I'm sure you guys get these type all the time, yet you put up with us new comers to the game. That tells me a lot about the people the love and play this game. I will take all the advice here and make sure our next adventure is one that she will enjoy and want more. :)

captain yesterday wrote:

Jade Regent is pretty good, i recommend having one of the PCs be the last amatatsu instead of how they have it, my daughter just turned 9 and i had same problem with beginner box adventure not enough. also as a bonus it starts (but does not stay) in the same town as the beginner box (you might even recognize some of the NPCs and artwork from the beginner box in the modules)

beyond Jade Regent,
Kingmaker is the best for kids (tho extremely hard to find in book format without being taken for a ride (scratch n dent from paizo would be the cheapest route there)
the feel of Kingmaker is very much old school-king arthur's court-robin hood-fairytale-esque.

Shattered Star is easily edited for kids, a few adult situations in book 2 and book 5 is creepy in a lovecraftian sort of way (tho no in bred country folk mating with aliens, more exploring leng and nightmares and what not)

my nephews are really digging Serpent's Skull and Carrion Crown, tho my daughter not as much (girls are less curious about vampires and werewolves and more afraid of them in experience, which is limited to my own as i had all brothers, who all loved horror, myself included)
Serpent's Skull is more indiana jones with a touch of pirates of the caribbean, tho book 3 requires you to make your own maps of buildings and such (look thru the message boards before investing in it, the reviews are needlessly harsh so take them with a grain of salt. personally i like Serpent's skull and its fun for kids (there are cannibals in first book but if handled cinematically or comically can be a memorable and fun encounter.

Skull & Shackles is also great for kids with some editing (especially in book 5)

adventure paths to avoid or i know nothing about
Rise of the Runelords, yes its the first ap however book 2 and 3 are pretty gruesome and hadrd to edit out with keeping story intact, also will encounter an area in book you'll want to change

Council of Thieves, a great adventure path (one of my favorites right now in fact) however it is more...


Captain Yesterday is correct in saying that RotRL is pretty gruesome in parts. You mentioned that your main concern was sexual content, which is why I still recommended it. (We're up through the end of book 5 now.)


I've been looking for more family-friendly adventures too. Seems everybody wants "darker and grittier." these days.

The free Paizo module "D0: Hollow's Last Hope" is mostly family friendly. It was written for Dungeons & Dragons 3.5, but it's similar enough to convert. It has the main characters searching for ingredients to make a cure for a plague.


The 3.5 adventure Into the Wilds was fun, and converting to the BB should be somewhat easy.

Even better? It's 100% kid-friendly: no mature or sexual themes whatsoever.

Shadow Lodge

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I would like to recommend the three part module series that starts with Crypt of the Everflame. While I can't vouch for the sexual content of the second and third book (I've only browsed them, but my guess is they don't have any), the first one is completely devoid of that. The adventure also starts as the "first" adventure that any of the characters have gone on. It's a fairly standard affair of a dungeon crawl with lots of variety, traps, and enemies. There are also some really helpful tips in the book on rules explanations for new GMs as it was the first series (iirc) to come out after the conversion from 3.5 to Pathfinder. To be even more helpful there is a podcast that goes over most of the ins and outs of the scenario for the GM, and what possible pitfalls it has and how to avoid them: LINK HERE (the first part of the podcast is a sort of general news from a few years ago, then it goes into extensive coverage of the module). I also believe that the next podcast after that was for the second part of the adventure, Masks of the Living God. I've only run the first of this series, but I found it to be a lot of fun with some really excellent moments.

Best of Luck!


It isn't a whole campaign, but We Be Goblins! is a hoot-and-a-half for kids. Who doesn't like to play as goblins!? And there's a sequel coming out soon, too!

And not only is it age appropriate; it's also a great way to make kids excited about tabletop RPGs. It's a chance to form a group of other RPG kids around your daughter.

As an added bonus, We Be Goblins! also serves as a sort of prequel for Jade Regent as well, and in any case is near Sandpoint where the Beginner Box places adventurers.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks all for the recommendations and ideas. Looks like there are some good options, and it seems even with a few of the more PG-13+ campaigns one can choose to make modifications that do not often destroy the theme or story line. I'm glad to know there are options and that people are willing to share their thoughts and understand the reasoning why this may be a concern. Thank you.

Grand Lodge

There are also the Beginner Box Demos, which are 5 free short (1 hour) adventures that can help give you some more adventure ideas to expand on and get a taste for how to go about things.


Kid-Friendly could mean Mouse Guard.

It's a fine game, but it is sort of brutal in a predator-prey relationship kind of way.

Still, those mice are adorable and bad-ass.

Lantern Lodge

Mouseguard was pretty good, though I personally didn't like the pacing.

If you are concerned with pg material I would highly recommend The Savage World of My Little Pony. Actually, I would highly recommend it anyway. It is posted on devient art, a quick search can find it ( I have no C&P ability right now) and it is based on the savage worlds system which is different from PF but definately my favorite system after d20.

(I know i spelled them wrong but i don't have spellcheck either and its killing me!)


I'd second the vote for Hollow's Last Hope, and the Kobold King adventures that it leads into. I converted Hollow's Last Hope to Beginner Box rules with no trouble at all, just substituting monsters that appeared where necessary and switching skill checks over on the fly (where it says Spot check, PF uses Perception, for example).

And I'd echo your view that the forums here will generally be supportive, helpful and informative. Lots of folks who love the game and want others to learn it make that happen (obviously, there will be occasional exceptions to this pattern). But your questions aren't dumb, they're welcomed - if you have any that come up in adapting modules, running games, whatever, you'll generally get a quick, useful answer here.

Liberty's Edge

Khelreddin wrote:

I'd second the vote for Hollow's Last Hope, and the Kobold King adventures that it leads into. I converted Hollow's Last Hope to Beginner Box rules with no trouble at all, just substituting monsters that appeared where necessary and switching skill checks over on the fly (where it says Spot check, PF uses Perception, for example).

And I'd echo your view that the forums here will generally be supportive, helpful and informative. Lots of folks who love the game and want others to learn it make that happen (obviously, there will be occasional exceptions to this pattern). But your questions aren't dumb, they're welcomed - if you have any that come up in adapting modules, running games, whatever, you'll generally get a quick, useful answer here.

Again, I cannot say it loud enough how impressed I am with the people in this group and the materials of the product from Paizo. I may be slow to learn and have many questions going forward, but I love the community and support.

One other question if I could ask it here, do people find that they learn better by playing in a group before trying to go on their own, or do they find that the materials themselves are easy enough to do the job; along with the forum help?

There is not a group near me, but one an hour from my home that meets ones a month on a Sat to do the Pathfinder Society modules. Would that help, or should I learn some more before going into the game socially>


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you say "I don't know how the game works, but I'm willing to learn" most groups will welcome you with open arms.

I might also suggest trying out online play with a virtual tabletop (VTT) - my current go-to is Roll20, because it's free and runs in a web browser - to get your feet wet on learning the system, though I know it's not for everyone.


Playing your own character will help you learn, but isn't essential.

I went straight to GM with only CRPG's and lots of fantasy novels as my experience and ran games for a few years without problems.

Eventually one of my players decided he wanted to GM and I had the pleasure of being one of the players, now we switch around for every adventure path.

As someone who has run Kingmaker I'd recommend it for younger players, very little content that you'd need to alter, and it's flexible.

Leave the Kingdom building as a background event, skip the hex exploration when it grows old and you have a good campaign that your players will enjoy, starting out as wandering heroes and ending up as rulers of their own lands.

DBH


A few pieces of advise for a beginning GM.

Don't try to remember every rule, just make sure you know where they're located in the Core rule book for when they come up.

Do read through the adventure carefully before running it and look up everything you don't understand.

Don't be afraid to change a rule you don't like, and remember a light hand with your players is best, it's for everyone to enjoy, not suffer through.

DBH

Lantern Lodge

Don't be afraid to try radically different things either.

I myself am best when playing spontaneously. I don't need to do hardly any homework compared to other GMs and I find it enjoyable to discover things right along with the players. I once forgot my beastiary and thus for a random one off encounter made up creatures on the spot. They became the centerpoint for the entire campaign.

There are a huge number of ways to play with the same rules, some are rules sticklers, others play fast and loose with them, some focus entirely on combat while others focus on the social front.

Finding the style that works for you and your players is essential to enjoying the game, and the first play through can make or break a new players opinion on coming back.

As for whether to join a group or learn the rules first, that depends entirely on your comfort level. I hoped in cold. GM helped me make a character, then sat me down with everyone else and I learned as I played through, asking questions as I needed them.

Liberty's Edge

DarkLightHitomi wrote:

Don't be afraid to try radically different things either.

I myself am best when playing spontaneously. I don't need to do hardly any homework compared to other GMs and I find it enjoyable to discover things right along with the players. I once forgot my beastiary and thus for a random one off encounter made up creatures on the spot. They became the centerpoint for the entire campaign.

There are a huge number of ways to play with the same rules, some are rules sticklers, others play fast and loose with them, some focus entirely on combat while others focus on the social front.

Finding the style that works for you and your players is essential to enjoying the game, and the first play through can make or break a new players opinion on coming back.

As for whether to join a group or learn the rules first, that depends entirely on your comfort level. I hoped in cold. GM helped me make a character, then sat me down with everyone else and I learned as I played through, asking questions as I needed them.

Great advice. I had to laugh when I read your sentence "...the first play through can make or break a new players opinion on coming back." and my first thought was that my 10yo daughter does not have that option. :) I really do want to make it a fun and enjoyable experience for her.


Quella, I don't think it's required that you join a group before you GM. The main thing is knowing your players and keeping an eye on making sure they're entertained. However, it might help to see some good GMs in action for inspiration and for ideas.

Check out the channel TabletopTalk on YouTube: there's a good GM running a group of his friends through Rise of the Runelords. Don't feel you have to do anything exactly his way though--he clearly puts a lot of work into preparation, and remember always that the most important rule is knowing your players and keeping them entertained.

Also, don't underestimate the power and fun of vivid description! Search on YouTube "Nicolas Logue game master" and you'll know what I mean.


gotta agree with rot grub, i havent been part of a steady group (other then the wife and kids) for over twenty years (dukes!, just dated myself) jump on in they'll learn with you, its a lot more fun that way (at least in my personal experience) also dont worry bout the rules just roll with it and have fun.

another positive of Jade Regent is at end of first adventure (4th level) the PCs acquire an artifact with restoration and resurrection abilities so less PC death (my daughter would probably cry for a week if i killed off her second character (her first a dwarven rogue from BB, second is a catfolk ninja (she is nine after all)

Lantern Lodge

Catfolk ninja, awesome!

(Wait, im not nine, where are you takeing me? Not the white padded room! Please not again!)


DarkLightHitomi wrote:

Catfolk ninja, awesome!

(Wait, im not nine, where are you takeing me? Not the white padded room! Please not again!)

yeah she kicks major posterior right now, surprisingly she and the halfling bard (with the archeologist archetype from Ultimate Combat) are our best melee combatants, and we have dwarf ranger in the group with 18 str and took 2 handed weapon fighting style. they literally do acrobatics (like the halfling using the ninja as a spring board to jump over opponents) it has been a lot of fun playing with my family rather then people i don't have emotional connections to. less arguments and things go a bit faster cause no one is asking for clarifications and what not.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

0one Games also publishes some scenarios intended for the Beginners Box ruleset. Basic Paths: Curse of the Sickled Hand, Fangs from the Past, and Wrath of the Orc God have all received positive reviews.

Liberty's Edge

Once again, thanks all for your encouragement and support of my questions. I feel that I can now move forward and attack this game little by little. All the suggestions are great and I like to see that others have younger kids participating in these activities. There is hope for me yet I think. :)

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