I would be willing to guess that giving your players the answer that the ship counts toward their wealth is not going to solve the issue.
1) Well, it is an item that has value, so yes, it's part of their collective wealth.
2) Have one of the NPCs that the players trust mention that killing new crew members out of hand isn't going to help them build the strength they need to eventually fend of Harrigan when (and I do mean when) he eventually tracks them down. They need all the help they can get at this point.
3) Tell your players to stop being such dicks about it.
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The player is rolling up a Duergar who was exiled and captain player says that it would be impossible for him to get the benefit if he were kicked out of his home.
Which isn't the player's call to make. There's no hard and fast rule on the subject of exiles in the books, and you're the GM making the call. If he's from a rich family, he has good stuff, and getting exiled and taking your stuff with you isn't an impossibility. This player shouldn't be getting bent out of shape over an extra 900 gp. Not that big a deal in the long run.
Wow this captain sounds like a huge prick. This is definitely an out of game issue and he needs to chill out and deal with it.
It is not like they are going to be able to sell the ship to get anything any time in the near future so I would say no, take the average of the existing party w/o it. I would not allow the rich parents feat, but that is me as it has been said it is not a huge deal. Make sure what he has is comparable to what the others have, random it if necessary.
You spent how long training them to be pirates and now you complain that they act like one? This isn't a normal adventuring party, it is a pirate ship! If this ex-noble wants to hire on he needs to share the wealth!
It does seem to be low WBL at least in the begining..
It does seem to be low WBL at least in the begining..
It's actually very high WBL if you do the equivalent of turn the ship upside down and shake everything of value out of it. The problem is that you're unlikely to be able to carry out that kind of wholesale sacking and pillaging, because (for example) the captain of the ship is likely to notice if you steal the fillings out of his teeth. So it ends up being a balance between fear and greed -- how badly do you want the contents of the officers' private stashes, vs. how willing are you to risk death by keelhauling when you are caught with the first mate's wallet in your locker?
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For concern #1, I'd say it might be a good idea to tally up the individual wealth of the current characters, and give the new character an amount about equal to the average (modified by the trait). Don't include the ship in this calculation; the new character will likely be using it during the AP as well.
For concern #2, talk to both players OOC. Tell the captain's player you're not interested in PVP, and tell the newcomer it would probably be a bad idea to parade wealth around on a pirate ship. Problem should be solved :)
Dont count ship OR plunder as average part wealth unless they flip it at port, look at the items of the rest of the party and YOU (the GM) give him his treasure don't let him go shopping like its awl-shackles or something, if the player's continue to d-bag it up dump them, also an exiled duergar isn't going to leave without robbing the place stupid let him keep the trait or whatever it is just make sure you do the picking and tell the party if they don't like it there is a certain ancient brine dragon who wants all their stuff or it to the gullet for them or just have the Dominator from book 2 rob them stupid and leave them on an atoll without any rum that'll learn em:) the point is, don't let people push you around, you're the one in charge after all:)
just my thoughts, use them (or not) as you like
This is an OOC issue, not an IC issue.
Exactly.
I don't suppose any of your players were members of the 'occupy' movement, were they?
This is one reason why I don't let new or replacement pcs pick their own equipment based on wbl (I used to, then after a series of problems, I now tell them to pick non-magical equipment only, then I go through and give them magical items to get them to parity with the rest of the party). But, as you are letting them, I'd tell the captain to get over it, and depending on how well he and the other players followed my advice, I'd drop some extra treasure in the rest of the party's lap to get them at parity because, fundamentally, he's right about it being unbalanced (even if hes being a jerk about it, it sounds like they're 1000+ gp behind wbl notwithstanding the rich parents feat) and no, the ship shouldn't count towards wbl. Jmo.
This is an OOC issue, not an IC issue.
Exactly. You've got jerk players and you need to warn them to be welcoming to the new player and remind them that they were also new to the/a group once.
These problems are with the attitudes of actual human beings. Giving them treasure and trying to balance/play the issue in-game is sort of a way of rewarding their bad behavior.
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For player 1, I don't see how bringing in a new PC with less than everyone else is balancing in any way. A new PC coming in with more $$ by burning one of his traits for a one time (and in the grand scheme, minor) boost in cash, is really a non-issue. Would he have complained if a PC had started the campaign with that trait?
For player 2, do let him know that killing new crew members does little for morale or recruitment efforts. Kinda like a PC with leadership letting her followers die for no good reason repeatedly. Though, based on his described attitude, it probably would not make a difference; pricks usually continue to act like pricks regardless.
An additional thing to point out to both players, if the new PC is playing the role of exiled noble (with associated outfit and jewelry), they could have an additional asset in the form of a crew member who could feasibly get them into places they may otherwise have issue getting into.
Putting them on a level playing field will go a long way to table unity. The captain is right, this is not a crunch campaign it is highly roleplaying.
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Ah, so there was more to it than was originally laid out (which made it sound as if player 1 was being a little miffed at the use of Rich Parents and player 2 was being a complete ass). If the PC was equipped incorrectly, resulting in far more that he should have had, then yeah, that's a definite issue.
As to fitting in with the setting, that would be a concern, but I can't see there being too much adjustment going on. I am assuming he ran the concept by the GM first and was given the green light for the concept, yes?
As to a crunch based PC being an issue, I don't see it. Crunch based PCs can be used to role play as well. As long as the player is not a die hard roll player (as in, "I don't care about the PC's personality, all I care about is the numbers"), I don't see an issue.
As to Duergar nobility not granting any benefit, he should still have some benefit in that role, exiled or no. Unless it is widespread knowledge that he has been exiled ... and topside, I would doubt that. While Duergar are not exactly smiled upon by most on the topside, he would still be nobility. As long as he took ranks in Knowledge (Nobility), Diplomacy, or the like, and had the look of nobility, then I would expect he may still be able to fill that niche.
Well the problem with the nobility is that he's an exiled Duergar noble. So we ain't getting anywhere.
We figured out some things last night. He had used the wrong prices to buy things, so he had a lot more stuff, then we lowered his actual starting gold to 4000+900 so he would be on even footing with the rest of the crew.
Captain was talking to him last night about role playing, since new guy had a character concept that was a good seed, but took that seed and made a crunch-based guy that was hard to fit into the setting without a lot of thought.
okay so you solved this by putting the new person on equal footing with the existing players, then having the players talk it out and resolve their differences?
that is insane
why not just call them all dicks like the majority of posts in this thread were advising?
I mean that seemed like a pretty reasonable response to me and by reasonable I mean just absolutely terrible
thread people will be thread people but good on you OP for actually not listening to thread people and instead just doing something that actually made sense
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All well and good to say after additional info comes to light Lamontius. But as it was originally spelled out, it did read as player 2 being, quite honestly, a prick. Any player who says they are going to kill off the new player's PC "because it's what my PC would do" is being a prick. The game is supposed to be for everyone's enjoyment; killing off a new player to the table for no good reason (ie - good reason would be something like the new player's PC is killing innocents in front of your paladin PC) is a dick move and does nothing towards providing an entertaining time for all involved.
As it is, with additional information regarding the situation being given, it sounds more like a combination of misunderstanding the rules and a potential clash of playing styles that could have been th main driving factors ... As such it sounds like it was resolved and I hope the addition of the new player goes smoothly.
okay so you solved this by putting the new person on equal footing with the existing players, then having the players talk it out and resolve their differences?
that is insane
why not just call them all dicks like the majority of posts in this thread were advising?
I mean that seemed like a pretty reasonable response to me and by reasonable I mean just absolutely terrible
thread people will be thread people but good on you OP for actually not listening to thread people and instead just doing something that actually made sense
Yes, because when people say that they expect the person to literally repeat the response word for word, rather than be diplomatic or reasonable with people they are on friendly enough terms with to play games together regularly, and tone it down to something like "You're being unreasonable."
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Let the character roll up, give him just money and no gear. The last line of his back story should be, "Over the last few months I have been conscripted as a slave in Chelaxian Navy, aboard the pirate hunter 'Dominator.' Tonight have taken my chance as luck would have it the scoundrel of a leftenant beat me one to many times. I beat him to death with a batten, took his weapons, and money including a number of gems he kept on his person."
If you want to be generous give him a few items of your random choice not his off the Leftenant and the cash comparable to the party not WBL.
This fits into the book, it starts him out as a nobody and it gives him the cash but should end the temptation of viewing the character as some rich noble fop at a semi secret dry dock.
The rich Parents trait isn't supposed to affect your WBL. It just speeds up getting there.