Incorporeal undead and channel


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The incorporeal subtype says that you take half damage from spells and supernatural abilities. I would assume that includes channel? It doesn't say otherwise, but I wanted to confirm. I had always thought positive energy affected all undead the same, but in re-reading the rules, I think I'm wrong.


Universal Monster Rules wrote:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

Emphasis mine


The incorporeal subtype only includes a very small portion of the incorporeal rules. Check out the incorporeal ability in the Universal Monster Rules section for more:

PRD wrote:

Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature's Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Perception checks if it doesn't wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.

Format: incorporeal; Location: Defensive Abilities.

As you can see from my emphasis, an incorporeal creature takes full damage from channel energy.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Oh thanks! So I have been running it correctly after all. Yay!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am playing in the Carrion Crown AP and we just ran into these questions while fighting the wraith in the prison (The Lopper).

Does anyone have any insight on how positive energy delivered by a Cure Light Wounds spell (which might be half damage as its a spell?) or a Paladins Lay on Hands ability (its a supernatural ability so it just does full damage?) would affect an incorporeal creature?

Thanks for any help on this.


Sorry for necroing the thread, but seriously do cure spells and lay on hands affect incorporeal fully of only by half?


DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Sorry for necroing the thread, but seriously do cure spells and lay on hands affect incorporeal fully of only by half?

That does seem to be the case - it specifically excludes channeling, but not holy effects in general. Spells like Holy Smite are also halved, and you're not even "touching" for that one.

(You can always house rule this as a GM, though. It could be worth it if incorporeal creatures play a big part of your campaign and you're trying to keep more realism. I'd expand it to "positive energy effects" or something if you wanted to go that route.)

Sovereign Court

the "(except for channel energy)" used to be "(except for positive energy)" in 3.5 IIRC, and that allowed cure spells to not have a miss chance against incorporeal undead. I wasn't aware of the change and glad I saw it here.

Sczarni

It's actually worse than just being halved. Cure Light Wounds allows a save to reduce the damage as well, so if you're poking at a Shadow with your wand, and it saves, it'll take (at most) 2 points of damage.


Sounds worthwhile to custom build a paladin (or other class, like oracle) archetype that is more effective against ghostly spirits, such as a special lay on hands ability that affects ghosts or other undead. Maybe also replace Detect Evil with Detect Haunts and Undead. I've always wanted to build a class that had more effective ways of detecting and dealing with haunts, so you don't have to trigger them in order to deal with them. Perhaps evan having an ability that suppresses haunts from manifesting (prevents trigger).

Sczarni

Haunt Rules wrote:
detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).

A Paladin's Detect Evil can already locate most haunts and undead, as it is rare to encounter one that is not evil.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Incorporeal undead and channel All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.