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This is not a rhetorical question:
We were told that factions are going away because it's too much hassle to write 10 missions for every scenario.
We were also told that we are not going to have faction missions anymore.
So why do we need to get rid of two factions?
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Because this is a living campaign world and things change?
One would hope that there would be some kind of reasoning behind that change.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the wealth changes. So do you get an automatic 2 Prestige Awards per scenario in season 5?
According to the podcast, there's going to be an announced success condition ("rescue Pathfinder Bob") and an unannounced success condition (Bob leads you to three other captive Pathfinders).
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First I've heard of it. Please say it isn't so. What will be the point of playing a faction?We were also told that we are not going to have faction missions anymore.
It's true. As of Aug 14th, both the Shadow Lodge and the Lantern Lodge will no longer be legal options. The Lantern Lodge will unofficially end with the Season 4 Way of the Kirin, which is supposed to have a special Boon only for preexisting LL characters. The Shadow Lodge will likewise cease after Rivalry's End, though they have not hinted at what will happen with SL characters.
With Season 5, they have said that there will no longer be Faction Missions for all Factions in each scenario, and instead certain one's will include something extra for individual Factions. There are other things that are going to change, and if you like, HERE is a link to the Podcast.
Because this is a living campaign world and things change?
You say that like no one controls the change...
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..Zarta series..
Not to hijack the thread, but where/what is this? Zarta has to be one of the more amusing/interesting faction captains imho, I'd love to see more focusing on her...
Also, where'd this retiring factions come from to begin with? I've not seen a thread about it before now, and as I'm trying to become a good PFS gm, this kinda seems like need-to-know stuff.
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Mostly The Disappeared and Fortress of the Nail, (also Storming the Diamond Gate, and the Blakros Matrimony I believe). The first two are a 2-part series to find out what happened to the uncharismatic harlot, followed by going to do something about it (trying not to spoil it for you).
Both are very Cheliax focused otherwise, as well, both in location and culture.
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I should point out that Zarta is not actually in either of them, so if that's what your looking for, don't be surprised when it doesn't happen. They are kind of about her, but do not involve her, (very little at the end).
These are also two of the big ones that have caused a lot of issues with other players and factions, sort of crossing the line. The later has had more than a few issues with TPK's as well.
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The Disappeared was a great scenario. What was the problem with it?
Speaking only for myself, we failed it in the first 15 minutes because the one character who was supposed to be sneaky and trying to stay out of sight barging right into things while the party was still listening to box text. There were also many bad dice rolls, but many could have been prevented if we had just stayed out of trouble... Sorry, that scenario just left a bad taste in my mouth... I'm sure it's good for others, I just didn't have any fun at all with it.
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I could be wrong but I think that section missions I'm so sorry I might not go away totally just the written in hand outs. so see the main mission is to collect a sarchophogus so they can interpret the hieroglyphics. there will still be your yearly faction goal is to save someone from a certain disease... during the mission, you may find out the pharoah who's body is in the sarchophogus recovered from the same desease in ancient times. As a forward thinking member of your faction, you might want to take the body or ensure it is transported to absalom even if the society mission specificly says they don't need it so that your factions healers can figure out how the pharoah survived. The percentage of people who did this may help decide if the person you are supposed to save lives or dies in cannon.
Again, that's just what I got from the podcast, and I might be wrong..
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Earl, that seemed like a really great way to explain it.
I think they're also trying to get rid of the omniscent task-giver roles the faction heads sometimes take: "There was a dagger that was lost centuries ago that I have inside knowledge was eaten by a fish that later expired in these very sewers you are about to investigate. So, if you happen to stumble across a fish skeleton, nearby, probably under some mud, should be a dagger."
Exaggerated for hyperbole's sake, but I think there's a little bit of trying to get rid of some of the cheese.
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The Disappeared was a great scenario. What was the problem with it?Speaking only for myself, we failed it in the first 15 minutes because the one character who was supposed to be sneaky and trying to stay out of sight barging right into things while the party was still listening to box text. There were also many bad dice rolls, but many could have been prevented if we had just stayed out of trouble... Sorry, that scenario just left a bad taste in my mouth... I'm sure it's good for others, I just didn't have any fun at all with it.
** spoiler omitted **
Sounds like this was unfortunately the players and GM, not the scenario. Sure, the experience left a bad taste in your mouth. But it isn't the Scenario's fault that you had a bunch of buffoons playing.
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This is not a rhetorical question:
We were told that factions are going away because it's too much hassle to write 10 missions for every scenario.
We were also told that we are not going to have faction missions anymore.
So why do we need to get rid of two factions?
Because it's not just the faction missions. It's writing for the entire faction as a whole. Maintaining a coherent plot line for ten different groups with ten different goals, keeping them consistent across the season, and making sure you don't cross wires along the way. Shadow Lodge and Lantern Lodge have finished their stories. So those plots get wrapped up and fall to the side so other stories can be focused on. While specific missions are going away, faction goals are not. Those goals still need to be written and taken into consideration when developing scenarios. Actually, writing specific missions is probably EASIER than just writing a general mission statement and leaving opportunity to the players to improvise ways to accomplish those goals.
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Well, I won't lie, I'm not particuarly happy about the way this was handled, especially given that we were told that our mission performance would be able to save our faction. This was obviously not quite the case, given that Rivalry's End and Way of the Kirin were announced back in December, which was right around the time of the blog post.
In the end, I can see the logic as to why these two groups have exhausted their plotlines. Honestly, to me, Lantern Lodge's was always unclear anyway. Shadow Lodge, though...As long as Pathfinders are being sent on ridiculously dangerous missions with insufficient preparation, there will always be a storyline for them. Given that the next season is set in the Worldwound, the idea that we no longer need the Shadow Lodge sort of makes me chuckle.
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As long as Pathfinders are being sent on ridiculously dangerous missions with insufficient preparation, there will always be a storyline for them. Given that the next season is set in the Worldwound, the idea that we no longer need the Shadow Lodge sort of makes me chuckle.
Perhaps every mission from now on will be opened by "Good News everyone!" to make them sound less dangerous?
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As long as Pathfinders are being sent on ridiculously dangerous missions with insufficient preparation, there will always be a storyline for them. Given that the next season is set in the Worldwound, the idea that we no longer need the Shadow Lodge sort of makes me chuckle.Perhaps every mission from now on will be opened by "Good News everyone!" to make them sound less dangerous?
I was thinking more of the midnight wake up calls by Declan (Drendal) Dreng where is was so important that you went immediately even though he had sent other pathfinders before you.
Bring him back and we'll have some fun. :)
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As long as Pathfinders are being sent on ridiculously dangerous missions with insufficient preparation, there will always be a storyline for them. Given that the next season is set in the Worldwound, the idea that we no longer need the Shadow Lodge sort of makes me chuckle.Perhaps every mission from now on will be opened by "Good News everyone!" to make them sound less dangerous?
Ever notice how you never see Drandle Dreng and Professor Farnsworth together? Coincidence? I think not!
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Who said there would not be faction missions??? I thought the podcast made it pretty clear that not only would there be faction missions, but they were going to evolve into some either/or situations and the overwhelming tally of the path taken would steer the faction down different decision trees.
What they did say was there might not be SPECIFIC faction missions for each faction each adventure. Those factions without specific missions might have overarching goals instead.
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Sounds like this was unfortunately the players and GM, not the scenario. Sure, the experience left a bad taste in your mouth. But it isn't the Scenario's fault that you had a bunch of buffoons playing.
Oh, aye, I readily admit it's not the scenario, and that others may have fun, I just didn't and have heard of at the very least one other group with similar experience. The one thing I hold against the scenario itself is how easy a group can get in that situation so early on. But that's the nature of the beast. So... *shrug*
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Sounds like this was unfortunately the players and GM, not the scenario. Sure, the experience left a bad taste in your mouth. But it isn't the Scenario's fault that you had a bunch of buffoons playing.Oh, aye, I readily admit it's not the scenario, and that others may have fun, I just didn't and have heard of at the very least one other group with similar experience. The one thing I hold against the scenario itself is how easy a group can get in that situation so early on. But that's the nature of the beast. So... *shrug*
Honestly, I think its the GM's job to corral the players in a scenario like this.
At the first sign of too much chaos, I'll stop everything, and OOC ask, "Hey, did you guys listen to the briefing? You do know you are supposed to be sneaky and unobtrusive right? Yes? Well then why are you not doing that?"
If they persist, I'd actually have no problem TPK'ing them or ending the scenario way early.
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Who said there would not be faction missions??? I thought the podcast made it pretty clear that not only would there be faction missions, but they were going to evolve into some either/or situations and the overwhelming tally of the path taken would steer the faction down different decision trees.
What they did say was there might not be SPECIFIC faction missions for each faction each adventure. Those factions without specific missions might have overarching goals instead.
I'm pretty sure as they are getting rid of giving out faction missions and the new way is to do things during the mission that move your overall faction goal. Also, they will not be available to all factions on each adventure.
Now the first few missions for season 5 will have stuff for each faction to do so everyone can get used to the new way of doing things.
I'm pretty sure as they are getting rid of giving out faction missions and the new way is to do things during the mission that move your overall faction goal. Also, they will not be available to all factions on each adventure.
I certainly hope its obvious within the mission. As time goes on and faction's overarching change, I think I'll have a harder and harder time keeping track of what I'm supposed to do for my overarching goal. I had a hard time remembering when they first came up with the idea.
Its not an awful idea to lose a faction or two. No matter what its still work to keep track of and expand and continue the faction, I do feel that its strange to do this now that factions aren't getting a mission every mission however.
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Back to the OP. I am rather curious as to why the factions are being cut if we are being refocused in such a way.
I have no real problem with the cut (even though my favorite is gone), but overarching season goals are not that hard to work with especially if the current mission formats stop.
If we are really interested in making less work and more coherent stories why not cut 5 factions, or all of them and start over with philosophy based factions rather than country based.
I really like the podcast described 2nd prestige point plan. Completing the second/secret part of a mission should allow more pathfinder flavor and less travelling murder gang mentality.
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It seems to me it may have been for a couple of reasons:
1) The story lines for both factions are a season or more old (Year of the Shadow Lodge and Year of the Ruby Phoenix)
2) They are going to create 1-2 faction-specific scenarios per season and doing 10-20 of those types of scenarios really cuts into the writing pile. Much easier to have 8-16 and leave the remaining 12+ for the seasonal plots.
3) It is hard to justify missions from the Lantern Lodge now that we aren't over there as much. Now that Torch has rejoined the Society, it's not much of a 'Shadow' Lodge anymore.
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Now that Torch has rejoined the Society, it's not much of a 'Shadow' Lodge anymore.Except that the Shadow Lodge became a PC faction specifically because Torch rejoined the fold. Maybe he's leaving in Rivalry's End.
My guess is that he gets promoted into the Decemvirate, but without a mask like the others.
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None of the factions have had a huge significance in the latest season except the whole Cheliax thing and that felt more like a whole society protecting its own, rather than a specific faction.
The two factions being cut are not being cut because their story is over, its that there is less perceived interest in those factions. They've even said that the story and plots involving them will continue just without PC characters in the faction.
With such a regional focus on Varisia all the factions felt really superfluous to me. Also when we head to the Worlwound the only faction that even seems to fit is Silver Crusade. The others can all be made to fit in somehow... protecting their interests by not letting the wound spread or profiteering off the war efforts.
After reading threads and thinking about this topic, factions just don't seem to be worth having at all. There are other ways to get the mechanical benefits that faction memberships offer.
I'd vote to toss them all and make the scenarios focus more on cooperating and exploring.
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I'm pretty sure as they are getting rid of giving out faction missions and the new way is to do things during the mission that move your overall faction goal. Also, they will not be available to all factions on each adventure.
That's how I interpreted it. The only thing is, it seems a particularly not well thought out process.
So I play a scenario that features a faction that I just happen to not be. Then I play another one, and guess what happens, same thing. It is possible to just completely miss out on the whole thing if you are unlucky.
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Now that Torch has rejoined the Society, it's not much of a 'Shadow' Lodge anymore.Except that the Shadow Lodge became a PC faction specifically because Torch rejoined the fold. Maybe he's leaving in Rivalry's End.My guess is that he gets promoted into the Decemvirate, but without a mask like the others.
There can be only ten.
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There can be only ten.Now that Torch has rejoined the Society, it's not much of a 'Shadow' Lodge anymore.Except that the Shadow Lodge became a PC faction specifically because Torch rejoined the fold. Maybe he's leaving in Rivalry's End.My guess is that he gets promoted into the Decemvirate, but without a mask like the others.
They're mortal. If one dies, he could take their place. Heck, if one of them is found out to be particularly abusive to everyday Pathfinder agents, I could see Torch challenging and killing him, then demanding to take his place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
The eyes of Torch + 9 doesn't sound quiet as appealing to me.
