I wonder if D&D would work better as TV Series than a Movie.
You could capture the level progression nicely over the longer time span. Not making a big fuss about it, just seeing more and tougher opponents and bigger and flashier magic. Probably going up a level every few episodes, reaching high levels in a couple of seasons.
Gives you more time to develop your ensemble cast.
The episodic nature of TV works well with the episodic nature of most adventures. A meta-plot to drive the whole thing and separate plots for each episodes.
The problem is that the D&D film rights also probably include live-action TV. So you can't make a TV series either without the rights-holder's say-so.
The problem with virtually all of the analysis in this thread is the bare assumption that the movie is expected to target actual D&D players, and so needs to somehow be true to the D&D experience.
If I know my Hollywood (and I think I do) the first person in the creative group who says "That's not how D&D works!" will be immediately kicked out the door with a "We aren't looking to sell tickets to grimy socially inept teenagers who live in their parents' basements."
Because that's how Hollywood views gamers.
So they will target a mass audience and as such will pretty much ignore what actual D&D players want to see.
Which raises the question of why they want the D&D property at all.
And the answer to that is that Hollywood as an industry has largely run completely out of ideas and is desperate to get ANYTHING that they can mine for SOMETHING that might spark an original thought.
This is an industry that has thrown four versions of Superman, three versions of Spiderman, remakes of every moderately successful adventure, sci-fi or fantasy vehicle in the history of filmdom and has been so desperate that they have turned marginally humorous Saturday Night Live character sketches into full-length feature films.
Hollywood is out of ideas. Has been for years. Running on empty and getting nowhere.
Whalin's rogue could have had character development and a plot. Birch's wizard could have had the same.I'm assuming you mean the main character wizard, who was not the same as Thora Birch's queen.
... yes. My bad! I do apologize. It's been years.
They should base it on a team-based TV show, like Firefly or the A-Team or Burn Notice or Buffy or the Shield or White Collar, trade out tee guns for swords, and have them battle Yuan-ti, Githyanki, Beholders, and Mind Flayers!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mainly because most D&D monsters are much more unnatural than the standard orc
Which is ironic considering it is classic D&D's most ubiquitous monster.
Persoanlly I'd like to see a 'lower level' D&D done well. legend of the Seeker did quite ok, and even the (Kevin Zorbo) Hercules and Xena shows got vaguely close. Just a little less ham please!
Game of Thrones shows us what CAN be done, or for less budget, Vikings is great too.
There's a lot of options here, they just need to move away from 'Fireball Magic Missile Drizzt Dragon!' and the overdose of 'Ham n Campy'.
I thought the movie rights were sold by TSR prior to being bought out by WotC?
The timing was all pretty close together. We had TSR tanking and being bought by Wizards in 1997, and then Wizards were bought by Hasbro in 1998. The film was made in 1999 and released in 2000, so the rights negotiations were probably earlier, almost certainly before Hasbro got involved, as their lawyers would not have let that deal stand.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quote from here.
If it has Marlon Wayans in it heads will roll...
I will go out on a limb and say that he was far from the worst thing in that movie. Annoying? Yes. But at least he tried. :)
EDIT: finishing my post. :)
|
I agree that it should be a team focus as opposed to a single hero. Personally I think an Eberron campaign setting would be cool. IF they could get a good story line going and IF they could do the CGI or Graphics well. Depends on the budget I would assume. It has massive POTENTIAL, but my hopes aren't very high. To date it hasn't been accomplished. Tho I love LotR, and some of the new fairy tale remakes were done well, I just can't seem to believe that a successful D&D movie will be made. They just don't rate it high enough for a big budget.
just my 2 cents.
I would love it if was a 3rd to 6th level adventure, maybe a warlord or other BBEG is on the border of Home Town, and the heroes go on a couple mini-quests (maybe a heist or two, some dungeoneering, some creepy wilderness), and then invade the BBEG before she can attack.
Maybe Paladin, Ranger (or Barbarian and Monk), Druid, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard?
The problem with a D&D movie is that the cool stuff (monsters, magic, etc) would need a lot of special effects, which would cost a lot of money. Maybe if they stayed away from CGI they would be OK.
Plus the D&D universe is so diverse, even if you made an amazing Mind Flayer prosthetic, you probably wouldn't use it again and again (like they did with orcs in LotR). Everything would be new and hard to make.
Also, the sets are extremely expensive. Carnival (a great show) was canceled just because the set (the carnival) was too expensive. Other awesome shows have been canceled for the same reason.
TV shows often have to be dramas in order to keep costs low. Budget is a big deal.
And the D&D brand has failed to do anything so far, so it's unlikely they would get the money for effects that we'll see in this year's Pacific Rim (which I'm looking forward to).
So yeah, the entire IP is a problem. Fantasy is very hit or miss in general. It's either a home run or a flop.
Honestly, it sounds like whoever wins, we are going to be stuck with a crappy (if big budget) movie. I don't have much hope for a DnD movie written either by the Wrath of the Titans movie, or by the guy behind the Fast and Furious series.
The only vaguest sense of hope I have for such such a movie is that the success of Game of Thrones and the Hobbit might at mean we get a fantasy movie aimed at adults without heaping loads of cheese.
They should base the film on dungeoneering. And team work. I want to see tumbling to flank, aid another to Power Attack through DR, and fighting defensively to provoke AoOs so a teammate can kick @$$ and take truenames.
|
I thought the movie rights were sold by TSR prior to being bought out by WotC?The timing was all pretty close together. We had TSR tanking and being bought by Wizards in 1997, and then Wizards were bought by Hasbro in 1998. The film was made in 1999 and released in 2000, so the rights negotiations were probably earlier, almost certainly before Hasbro got involved, as their lawyers would not have let that deal stand.
IIRC Solomon got the rights in the early 90s when TSR was crashing hard due to poor decisions and the CCG craze, TSR let the rights go for pretty cheap.
The first DnD movie is not all bad. If someone new is playing a rogue and wants to know what to do, I tell him to watch that and do the oppisite of everything Marlon Waylons does.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If the production company sets out to make a D&D movie that focuses on the game itself you're looking at financial failure. A niche movie that a few hundred implacable grognards will cheer at is a bad move. The movie needs a comprehensible story, relatable characters, and the allure of ancient vistas, combat, and special effects. Take that for what its worth, but the people who actually make the movie are going to be constrained within those boundaries if they want a successful franchise. That's not to say they should cop out and make "the worst movie ever", but the target audience CAN NOT be D&D players. Your average movie goer that loves sci fi, fantasy and action is where the money will be. They key is finding a balance between a movie like Iron Man and Kingdom of Heaven. (IMO)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This can only end well...
I've said this before regarding other applications........
The DUNGEONS & DRAGONS brand name is only worth a nickle outside of the gaming hobby. In truth, I feel that putting D&D into the final title of any live action film is a bad decision on a studio's part.
It carries connotations of high cheese and pre- pubescent silliness. We may hold the name D&D dear, but we are a TINY minority.
It was a good deal, at the time, for TSR to let Soloman have a continual license to make films branded as D&D. In context; the company was failing, the hobby was flooded and the former player base were writing their own stories only slightly influenced by the game. Those stories were just as likely, even more likely to be turned into celluloid. There was a real chance for the brand name to be circulated and recirculated in a different medium at NO COST to the company other than having their brand name attached to yet another bad "B" film.
No, Hasbro would never allow such a deal. Which is why Hasbro still hasn't made a film or allowed a film to be cut of any serious work. They slacked off on Dragons of Autumn Twilight, which Should have been a money maker, they've yet to do a Drizzt movie or adapt a single one of their enormously successful novels into a feature film.
Prior to LotR (which is a D&D movie, since D&D is a LotR ripoff at it's core). The idea of a well produced, Oscar caliber, sword &sorcery film was a pipe dream. Now with the insane success of Jackson and Columbus with the Harry Potter films and Martin with GoT, the studios will greenlight anything for preproduction just to have something that could be a hit.
Sadly, too many of the properties are in the hands of less than competent or less than influential people because they were optioned out prior to the current film trends.
Martin held on to Game of Thrones, which his contemporaries thought was dumb. LotR has been held by every major studio in the last 30 years. It took that long to get it made, competently, which with that property even coked out, transient, mid level film execs knew would destroy their careers if they goofed it.
A film based on D&D is silly, since D&D has mined (or robbed) everything. I'm not sure that you couldn't make any generic fantasy film and use most of the basic elements without stepping on any legal toes. A film based on The Icewind Dale trilogy or Dragonlance maybe has merit though DL is probably too big in scope.
If Hasbro/Universal wants to make a movie let them. If WB/Soloman wants to make a movie, let them. Heck if Paramount wants to make a Blackmoor game movie let them. Let them all vet realeased at the same time ( like Armageddon/Deep Impact, Mars/Red Planet, or the 2 Snow White movies). No film is going to be good unless they take it seriously and the D&D name pretty much GUARANTEES that it won't get taken seriously, not even by Hasbro. Who hasn't learned from their mistakes and seems to think that their IP covers everything, it doesn't.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They should make a D,D&D movie about a Guy who wanders the world, trying out different potions and other consumables. ;-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually, it occurs to me that the only way to make a movie about D&D is to make a film about the D&D experience, i.e. actually playing the game. Since that would be boring, you could make the big-budget version of THE GAMERS and its two sequels, with a meta-storyline about the real-life players and how that is reflected in the in-game stuff (filmed with special effects in-situ, with the real-life players also playing their characters in the game). Done well, that could work.
Otherwise, I agree, there's pretty much not point using the 'D&D' name or licence. Frankly, in terms of narrative-based material, having the 'FORGOTTEN REALMS' or 'DRAGONLANCE' logo on the film poster will be worth a hell of a lot more.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just watch Game of Thrones and pretend it says D&D.
There's Giants, Dragons, undead, and some magic.
Heck a Cleric even used a Rez!
Think of it as a 'low magic' Kingmaker campaign.
Where the movies begin to stink is when producers try pull out all the monsters and sheezy big show magic and SFX. Keep it more street and it will do ok.
If the show Merlin has made it this far (I hate that show) a D&D show is certainly very very possible, more now than ever before, as it fits in an emerging genre. The Legend of Dick and Dom (D&D!) is also a pretty ok kids show.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I did something very stupid, i mentioned the movie to my girlfriend and was forced to endure a high definition torture that lasted one hour and 48 minutes.
I almost cried, not from pain, but from wasted potential that film held. It had some awesome actors, great music and (for that time) ok CGI, except for the dragons who sucked. The premise was very interesting too.
Most of us who GM could come up with a thousand times better story with the same premise.
Actually, that is what i am going to do. My next homebrew is happening in the empire of ismir where the evil mage Profion is trying to take the throne for himself. I'll post journals regularly.
First to finish the rise of the runelords however.
EDIT: Bungle that, I'm gonna run a PbP...writing it now...
If the production company sets out to make a D&D movie that focuses on the game itself you're looking at financial failure. A niche movie that a few hundred implacable grognards will cheer at is a bad move. The movie needs a comprehensible story, relatable characters, and the allure of ancient vistas, combat, and special effects. Take that for what its worth, but the people who actually make the movie are going to be constrained within those boundaries if they want a successful franchise. That's not to say they should cop out and make "the worst movie ever", but the target audience CAN NOT be D&D players. Your average movie goer that loves sci fi, fantasy and action is where the money will be. They key is finding a balance between a movie like Iron Man and Kingdom of Heaven. (IMO)
I pretty solidly agree, to a point.
The one contention/hesitation I'd have with this, however, is only that it actually make some effort to constrain itself with the rules of the game. What I'm not asking for is a technical readout - I don't want them shouting out about auto-hit missiles that deal 1d4+1 damage - but it would be nice if a first level wizard's magic missile killed, say, a goblin (maybe, it would be a lucky roll), but merely annoyed a bugbear, for example.
The basic idea is not to give a shout-out to whatever rules system they happen to be using (whether it's 2E, 3E, or 4E), but rather to establish a baseline for internal consistency, effectively using the rules to create a comprehensible story rather than just making a fantasy story with no discernible consistency at all (which is what the D&D movie did).
One of the things that made Iron Man fun was that he not only had skills, but he had limits, and those limits and skills were pretty consistent. He didn't spontaneously pull out a "bigger missile" from no where... we actually saw him making stuff, building it, and we knew where it came from (his genius intellect mind).
(The other thing was Robert Downy Jr., 'cause, seriously, that guy's a blast to watch on screen.)
You know, it occurs to me. Robert Downy Jr. should totally* play the eccentric genius wizard in the D&D movie, tinkering with stuff, building things, and equipping the party! It'd be a blast! Ooh! Ooh! Then he could make this super-armor, right? And it casts his spells for him, so he doesn't suffer spell-failure! YEAH! OH, MAN, HOLLYWOOD, LET THIS FANBOY ASCEND, 'CAUSE I TOTALLY DO* GOT TEH BEST MOVIE IDEAHZ!!!1!1!one!!
*
I would hope they use 3.5 rules as their baseline rules, but if I was WotC or whoever owns D&D nowadays, I would probably use the movie (or try to get the people making the movie) to make it one big giant commercial for the new gaming system (5th Wave or whatever they call it).
Maybe they should make a Pathfinder movie instead....
I mean, lots of fans, no 1970s and 80s taint of devil worshiping, iconic characters, a fun kitchen sink campaign setting, and even novels and Adventure Paths to provide plotlines! Seems like a really good idea to me.
Especially if they feature Seoni and Amiri....
Yeah, but by featuring them, they'd have to create physics-defying clothing... :)
Yeah, but by featuring them, they'd have to create physics-defying clothing... :)
Great! It will stimulate jobs and careers in the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) industries.
So what's good for Pathfinder is good fer America!!!!
|
|
Maybe they should make a Pathfinder movie instead....
That would actually not be a problem. As long as there is no mention of D&D or rules per se, one can make a pathfinder movie if one gets a license from Paizo.
And since most creatures in paizo books are semi-mythological, Hasbro could just sit and cry as Pathfinder Chronicles: whatever of the world or something similar reaped money because of it's awesome setting and cool iconics.
Quote from here.
If it has Marlon Wayans in it heads will roll...I will go out on a limb and say that he was far from the worst thing in that movie. Annoying? Yes. But at least he tried. :)
EDIT: finishing my post. :)
Yeah I went into the D&D movie years after its release and had very low expectations and fully expecting to *hate* Marlon's character. He wasn't nearly as bad at Thora Birch or Jeremy Irons (or that dude with the blue lips). At least Marlon was trying to work with what he was given.
I would hope they use 3.5 rules as their baseline rules, but if I was WotC or whoever owns D&D nowadays, I would probably use the movie (or try to get the people making the movie) to make it one big giant commercial for the new gaming system (5th Wave or whatever they call it).
I think you have actually pointed out what the big problem is here, rules!
D&D is at it's core, just a pile of rules mechanics for doing 'something'... the thing is that it is the 'something' part which the movie and fun is based on, and the rules are a distant issue.
We could equally point to any given fantasy movie and identify characters back to the game, but the reverse is not true.
Lord of the Rings is a great fantasy story, it could easily be played out using D&D rules, or MERPS, or Rolemaster, or GURPS.
What any movie needs to do is build setting and characters. The problem is that there is not a great understanding of the settings available within the mainstream market. Game of Thrones worked well because the first series was almost like a tourism show for half the territories and gave the viewer a fast update of what was where. Legend of the Seeker did the same.
D&D has some rich settings available, but you can't shoehorn them into a movie in any compelling way so the audience gets some unidentifiable generic fantasy setting and an orphan storyline attached to nothing with characters they only just met. That path went out in the 80's with the Barbarian Brothers.
The movie/show HAS to be able to stand on its own merit WITHOUT the D&D brand on it, that is the test.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My version probably wouldn't do well. I'd make the movie like the Cube. Adventuring party is in a dungeon you dont know why but it doesn't matter. The place is a damn meat grinder. Occasionally, the PCs meet other bands of adventurers trying to get out. These encounters can help replenish the diminishing party size from the fantasy vietnam dungeon crawl. Fill the rooms with deadly puzzles, traps, and encounters and go. Bam, there is my D&D movie.
I know that wont happen but a guy can dream. One thing they could do though is get away from orcs. Use kobolds, trogs, anything besides fricken orcs!
Gnolls!!!!!!
Yuan-ti!!!
Dr
Gelatinous cubes and rust monsters.
I think they should take one of the old 1ed adventures like White Plume Mountain and create the movie from that
So, would Soloman be able to use the license to attach the OGL to the movie and thus to monsters that are currently WotC IP?
No, I think the OGL specifically states it is for gaming purposes only (hence the 'Gaming' bit of 'Open Gaming Licence'), not film or TV or other things. The D&D-specific monsters (or the D&D-specific interpretations of generic creatures) would remain copyrighted.
However, as I understand it, Soloman's film rights include the D&D core rulebooks, including the 2E or 3E Monstrous Manual, so he has the rights to use things like beholders and drow anyway (and thus that's how beholders showed up in the original movie).
Ooh! A Planescape movie would be awesome! Jennifer Love Hewitt as Doomguard Factol Pentar!!!!!
Ooh! A Planescape movie would be awesome! Jennifer Love Hewitt as Doomguard Factol Pentar!!!!!
Just....no.
As for the lawsuit...not really surprised...
I am no fan of what Hasbro did to D&D, but I must confess feelling that they are justified in their litigation. They do own the D&D brand and it feels to me like Sweetpea is not entitled to keep gaming the system in perpetuity.
It is a fairly sound business move. Get the movie rights back, film a movie. Meanwhile, prepare a line of toys to market in promotion of the movie, or vice versa. It's a winning combo.
I think Hasbro has screwed D&D pretty hard over the years thanks in large part to unrealistic sales expectations for the core game, but I'd still rather the film rights be in their hands than with the guys responsible for the last three films.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As much as I would love to see a successful D&D movie, I don't see it happening. Even if the movies in development are successful beyond what past movies have been, I don't see them being successful to the point of being able to support a toy line. I see them having the same problem that the core game has, and that is unrealistic expectations within Hasbro, who neither understands, nor cares about, the functional limitations that the D&D IP has. It may be well known, but it's functional selling power is fairly limited.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If they get the rights back and then invest money into doing a big screen awesome looking adaptation of Dragonlance (or the Drizzt books), than I think they will make a fortune. Serious fantasy is in right now, and people will pay to see awesome dragons and medieval battles (see the LOTR movies, which were insanely successful, and didn't just attract book fans).
That said, neither proposed movie has any talent behind it that makes me optimistic, and Hasbro seems more interested in brainless action flicks than producing anything else, so I see that being the biggest problem.