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I'm just... not seeing the rudeness of deciding to leave. Maybe we're all reading "walk out" in different ways?
If the player just stood up and said "This sucks, forget you" and leaves, yeah that's really rude. If the player, after trying to accomodate but being shut down and literally unable to do anything by the GM, just says "This isn't working for me, I may as well go." and leaves, is it the same thing? I don't think so. It's not like the game will just fall apart if one player has to suddenly leave (this has happened at my table for work-related reasons), especially since most of these cases seem like the PC couldn't contribute anyway.
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It actually took an hour. He was busy dealing with the other players turns, and of course when mine comes around I am not going to charge an army on foot.So he actually did acknowledge you and didn't continue to ignore you and on your turn you didn't like the situation you got up and walked out?
I pretty much told him my character leans against a tree and waits for the party. I then sat there another hour before I got fed up and left. I was really more irritated with my fellow players than anything else.
I think I only ever walked out of one game, mid-combat, and it was because the GM decided it would be cool to run a game for somewhere around 14 players at once. In three hours, I'd had maybe two minutes to describe what I was doing and then when an actual combat started, I had one turn and then waited around 40 minutes for my next turn in initiative before finally quietly packing up and leaving. The GM was so busy trying to wrangle all the other players, nobody even noticed me leave.
I ended up at two of these myself, back in high school (1st Edition days).
I had a girlfriend who claimed to "play" with her buddies. Because the GM was the fairly sober kid across the street, I took an opportunity to sit in with them, only to find out that the "game" consisted of about fifteen of us sitting around in a smoky kitchen, with about two-thirds of the players stoned out of their minds, eating Cheetos and talking about the wild times they had getting high and skipping school. The DM only paid attention to two of his favorite players, who seemed to be re-enacting the final rounds of some epic battle they had played a year or so before. We were supposed to be playing AD&D, but whatever those guys were doing seemed to be an almost different system to me (+15 everything and weird rolls I could not account-for). Every-so-often the DM would involve us by asking us what our characters were doing, but I had no idea where we were or if we were even in the same room as the epic battle going on. I think I got to say what my character was doing twice in about three hours. I didn't include this as one I walked out on, because it just sort of suddenly ended with everybody laughing and going off to do their own thing.
The second time it happened, they promised me it would not go down like that again. In this case, there were about ten of us with half of the people stoned, but the presence of an old buddy (a hardcore gamer) of mine was enough to finally chase the stoners off. It ended up being just five of us, and I took over and ran the guys through a homemade system of my own, set in a modern day sort of mutant/cyber/apocalyptic setting (think Shadowrun before Shadowrun existed). We had a great time, and some fat dude with a Firebird ended up with my girlfriend, who was in love with his car. In hindsight, it was well worth it. Great game.
OOps, remember a 4th time. I caught a GM using a loaded Dice at a convention.... playing with this group in Palo Alto, CA.
San Mateo, Palo Alto, Pacificon, etc... LOL - Gurby, you are in my exact neck of the woods. We game in Menlo Park.
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They probably should have taken you into consideration but this still sounds like a hissy fit.
No doubt. I was pretty pissed about it, and explained myself better when I calmed down. It didn't help that I had GMed this module before and knew how far off we were. But that's what happens when you let evil PCs with monster manual races run amok.
Pretty sure the horse scheme wouldn't have worked since we were at least a days march from town or further. The enemy spellcasters and dragons would have also made it hectic. (Have you read Red Hand of Doom? Great plot, but step off the rails and watch out!)
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And I don't even know if I'd count a strange stoned out kick-back as an actual game of DnD? This sounds like some surreal scenario that can't even really be applied to what we're talking about.
I assume that last part was aimed at me? You don't understand because by your own admission you haven't paid attention to most of the thread. Despite having paid little attention, you seem to feel free to call people drama queens and judge everybody by your own obviously low appreciation of your own free time. I'm glad you have the time to waste on people who obviously disdain you, in games where you are either having no fun or doing nothing productive. But you can't expect other people to treat what little free time they might have with such little value.
Some people here (including myself) have contributed stories where we were actually being abused (in one case punched in the face) by bad GMs. Surely you don't consider all of us to be drama queens?
And if we cannot relate the times we almost walked out in relation to relative stories where somebody did walk out, or otherwise contribute without your kind permission (which it is slowly become obvious you are not ready to give), then why does the thread exist?
Since we are all otherwise getting along and having an interesting time reading about the weird situations we all found ourselves in, and you are the lone protestor, that would make you the odd man out. And in that case, it might make more sense for you to simply ignore the thread. You've gone from not having anything to contribute, to just telling people how stupid they are for having experienced their lives without your permission or presence, and that just is counterproductive and frankly, unreasonable.
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Again, I gave a solution based on only what I knew..but I'd think you could have done something to contribute. The fact that you say you were mad and explained yourself after calming down implies to me that you don't think the walking out was justified which seems to put you in the camp of yes I was mad at the time, but in hindsight walking out really isn't ok.
There's a camp? I did qualify it as a technicality, since I was really walking out on my party and not the GM.
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...I am not going to charge an army on foot.
Wimp.
I've mostly had good DMs (and the ones I've had that were bad weren't malevolently so), but there was one time I essentially rage rerolled a character. It was an Eberron game that had originally been 4E but that we dropped and then picked up a few months later in Pathfinder. In 4E I had been a large sized (with no stat benefit but reach; it was mostly an RP thing)Warforged Fighter with an at will that essentially gave me unarmed strikes Grab, so I decided to go grapple/tank based in Pathfinder and since I lacked system mastery at the time I thought it would be super to use a tower shield, a fist, and grapple. I also took Master Craftsman and a crafting feat because in the 4E game my guy had been big into woodworking (we joked he made nothing but reindeer statues, as he was a giant robot and we all liked Courage the Cowardly dog). DM was cool with everything beforehand (including being large with no benefit besides reach).
We start playing and everything starts going down hill. Wasn't allowed to craft anything good because "crafting is broken"; only ended up making wooden non-magical trinkets for RP reasons... best use of two feats ever. "Stand Still is broken with reach" even though I only used it once though in a cool way (airborne enemy was charging from the sky at an ally next to me, provoked from me, DENIED), but cool whatever. I was fine with that up until in one round he told me to make two will saves. I got something like a 24 and then below ten. He told me the enemy had cast Reduce Person and then Permanency and I had failed both saves. Yeah that ended that character for me. I rereolled a Gunslinger (which he apparently had no issues with) and that was that. I still play with the DM (both as a DM and as a fellow player) and he's a good guy but I don't know what the hell his issue was there. The only thing I can think of was a while before that game I had tried running for the first time and I made a lot of mistakes, including being a dick with custom enemies (he was a electric based mage and I made an enemy that redirected electric back at the source because I thought it would be funny... bad DMing choice is bad).
Walked out on a group once with the GM. GM was a guy from my group who was trying his hand at running for his high school buddies. Asked me to come along to help him with rules a bit. He ran the Ebberon starter adventures and the first few weeks went good. After the paladin died he asked to roll a Truenamer the GM read it over and agree fed to let him run it a session or two before final verdict.
In Whispers of the Vampires Blade there is a carriage chase scene that can be fun. The Truenamer caught up to the carriage and used a power that caused shadowy tendrils to hold something in place. On the cariage's next turn he asked why the target was still in the carriage. The GM pointed out that he was rooted to the floor. The arguement began that the fluff text said the shadows "came from the ground" and as such should have ripped the target from the carriage possibly staking him in the process. An hour later and still no acceptance that ground in this sense would be referring to what was being stood on the GM grab his books and told me he was done.
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I pretty much told him my character leans against a tree and waits for the party. I then sat there another hour before I got fed up and left. I was really more irritated with my fellow players than anything else.
So it was you walking out on the rest of the party, not the GM. After all, you TOLD the GM to essentially ignore you for the duration of the encounter.
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I pretty much told him my character leans against a tree and waits for the party. I then sat there another hour before I got fed up and left. I was really more irritated with my fellow players than anything else.So it was you walking out on the rest of the party, not the GM. After all, you TOLD the GM to essentially ignore you for the duration of the encounter.
They were supposed to scout an army and he was the only one in their party without the ability to fly... the rest of the party took off and left him so that they could have an aerial battle, which left him s~$% out of luck unless he wanted to charge an entire army on foot.
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I pretty much told him my character leans against a tree and waits for the party. I then sat there another hour before I got fed up and left. I was really more irritated with my fellow players than anything else.So it was you walking out on the rest of the party, not the GM. After all, you TOLD the GM to essentially ignore you for the duration of the encounter.
I believe Tri mentioned that his fellow players left him to scout, and then proceeded to initiate a combat [which he couldn't join] without him.
They were supposed to scout an army and he was the only one in their party without the ability to fly... the rest of the party took off and left him so that they could have an aerial battle, which left him s~$! out of luck unless he wanted to charge an entire army on foot.I pretty much told him my character leans against a tree and waits for the party. I then sat there another hour before I got fed up and left. I was really more irritated with my fellow players than anything else.So it was you walking out on the rest of the party, not the GM. After all, you TOLD the GM to essentially ignore you for the duration of the encounter.
Hell technically your not even scouting really depending on where your at you either don't really know its an army or you have plenty of info to know what your up against. At no point really is go near their main encampment a goal until your nearly at the end. Flying over is really just asking to be eaten by one of the multiple dragons or manticores they have around.
I've never walked out of game. The closest I've had was our group ended a game and decided to play something else that I didn't want to play. I decided to leave because I didn't want to stop them from playing something and I was able to play the other game so I was fine.
That said, I would have no problem if someone left. I don't agree it's rude. I think you can leave in a rude and immature way, or leave for immature reasons, but leaving because you are no longer having fun and/or don't want to put up with someone else's BS isn't rude or immature. That's like saying walking out of a bad movie or a party that isn't fun is rude. Everyone is there to enjoy themselves and if someone isn't, they shouldn't have to stay. We adjust.
I had some stupid GM's, though. One guy made all his campaigns around showing off his character, er, I mean "NPC". It was a vampire game where there was this character named Anton who could literally do everything. He was God. Omnipotent AND Omnipresent. That girl you got information from was Anton. That guy you attacked, it was Anton and he now had Potence five for some reason. This of course made us resent and attack the character even more. At one point a player character who was actually succeeding in undermining Anton and his control over the city was pulled under the city and a Demon made his character swear to stop fighting the NPC or the demon would destroy him. We stopped playing after that.
Walking out sounds incredibly childish, and it doesn't help that the only time someone walked out on a game was the individual at the table who was upset that we wouldn't let him play a ninja or samurai- this was after he flipped a table, mind. Always discuss things with your dm and fellow players. Leaving mid combat is the definition of selfishness, in my experience.
I've never really understood some of the behaviors or attitudes that come into this game. From things like "It is punishing a player if they lose XP when they die/don't gain XP when they don't come to the session/etc" to "How dare you get upset about a player drinking the milk in your house you told him to leave alone?", the mentality just seems foreign from how I was brought up to game.
Walking out on a lame game is somehow off limits? Why? There are more serious things that you can walk out on, like a job, and that's not off limits. Is it not ok to leave a ball game you aren't enjoying? A movie? In fact, it isn't even as much an inconvenience to the others as other situations. If someone agrees to go out on a boat ride, and then they get terrified and sea sick, do you just make them 'tough it out' or do you go back to dock for them?
Honestly, I don't really have a problem with a player walking for any reason. It might be immature, and they might be doing it because they're a little b***h, but oh well. That's their right if they choose to exercise it, poorly or no. And this isn't a vote from the player entitlement crowd, either. I'm a pretty strict DM. I won't have a drow soulknife in my game, and what I say goes. Doesn't mean I have command over the players beyond what they give me to stay in the game.
A bad game is kind of like a bad date. You either have to endure it and not go out with them again or figure out a decent excuse to sell to them to get out early and not offend them.
A cell call that's an emergency..remembering you have something to do tomorrow, have to be up early etc. In both cases, don't even attempt this unless you can convincingly pull it off. It'll just make you look like more of an a*%~*+~ if you're obviously trying to escape and can't let them down easy enough.
There is also a proper time if you are even going to try this. You don't bail when you just got your entrees and you don't bail on a game 10 minutes into the session or right in the middle of a precarious combat scene. Also, this would be rude if you are crucial to the success of the session.
I dont think that's the same as a bad date.
1. Suddenly bailing on a date forces it to end for everyone involved (just you and the other person), while a game can and typically does go on after one person leaves.
2. When you bail on a date like this, it is much more personal (again, two people) and much more likely to hurt the other person because the only reason to leave is literally because you don't like their personality, not because you have a disagreement (although that could be cause to leave).
If it were just reason 2, I would stick it out and wouldn't try to lie my way out of it (I don't think the other person would believe it). But also,I don't think bailing on a date because someone yelled at you, punched you in the face, or had an angry argument with you are bad reasons At that point both parties are probably relieved for it to end.
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A bad game is kind of like a bad date. You either have to endure it and not go out with them again or figure out a decent excuse to sell to them to get out early and not offend them.
Only if you care about offending them. I'd rather you tell me it isn't working and end the misery early than suffer in silence anyway.
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The only time someone has ever threatened to walk was when I first got into 3.5. I was only allowing core stuff because I was still new to the game and very new to GMing. My handle on the rules at the time was minimal so I just wanted it to be easier on myself instead of memorizing all the splat books. I made sure everyone knew that beforehand. One player decided instead that he would bring a drow soulknife into the group. I didn't even have the book on psionics nor did I understand the rules for monsters as characters (at the time, I didn't even know what the f~%@ drow were), so I emailed him and politely asked him to reconsider a new character. When game day came, he came in and slammed his notebook near me, saying his drow soulknife is in there and he's playing it. I told him that I was just allowing core and to please reconsider the character. Finally, he came out and said that if I didn't allow it, he'd leave the game and make me walk home.
This can't be true. I've been told in several such players are a myth! (s)
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At to walking out, there are two separate scenarios.
One is you are sitting down with strangers at a Con, FLGS, etc...and you realize "Wow, this sucks."
The other is you are with your friends, in a game you agreed to play, with people you intend to see on a regular basis.
Each walk out is very different. I think etiquette would dictate in both cases you suck it up and wait out the game, not returning. It is just a game in a made up world after all.
But in the FLGS, or Con option, saying "Yeah, let someone else take my spot" seems kosher to me.
But I also avoid those places like the plague because of the very gaming problems being discussed...
At to walking out, there are two separate scenarios.
One is you are sitting down with strangers at a Con, FLGS, etc...and you realize "Wow, this sucks."
The other is you are with your friends, in a game you agreed to play, with people you intend to see on a regular basis.
Each walk out is very different. I think etiquette would dictate in both cases you suck it up and wait out the game, not returning. It is just a game in a made up world after all.
But in the FLGS, or Con option, saying "Yeah, let someone else take my spot" seems kosher to me.
But I also avoid those places like the plague because of the very gaming problems being discussed...
I have a hard time thinking that groups where this issue arises as significantly as some have mentioned that the players and GM are really "friends". My definition of friend may well be different from everyone else's, but the friends I play with wouldn't be literally punching each other in the face or screaming over no being allowed to play a ninja (or any of the other examples).
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I have a hard time thinking that groups where this issue arises as significantly as some have mentioned that the players and GM are really "friends". My definition of friend may well be different from everyone else's, but the friends I play with wouldn't be literally punching each other in the face or screaming over no being allowed to play a ninja (or any of the other examples).
It is probably because you aren't a jerk, and therefore you are able to make friends with people who are able to be selective because they aren't jerks.
YMMV :)
The only time any of the games I've been in came close to coming to blows was because there was alrady a personal conflict going on between players, non-game related.
The only time a walk-out occurred was when the GM announced the game was cancelled, then started up 2 weeks later not inviting the one person back he wanted out of his game.
I have asked to sit out games when I didn't think the concept sounded fun.
I don't feel obligated to play in games I don't think I will enjoy...
I have a hard time thinking that groups where this issue arises as significantly as some have mentioned that the players and GM are really "friends". My definition of friend may well be different from everyone else's, but the friends I play with wouldn't be literally punching each other in the face or screaming over no being allowed to play a ninja (or any of the other examples).It is probably because you aren't a jerk, and therefore you are able to make friends with people who are able to be selective because they aren't jerks.
YMMV :)
Well one has to acknowledge the situation where the player is question is the friend of another player, and has never met the GM before, or only knows him through school/work. While I've never had a walk-out situation, I HAVE very recently stopped playing a game run by a friend of a friend because I was both disgusted with his behavior away from the table and bored by the game, but I think that's a story for another thread.
One can't predict how the game will go if you only know part of the group.
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A player not coming back is something that happens for lots of reasons, including a GM not running a story that was interesting enough to get the player to want to play.
I think that is a completely different animal than a mid-game walk out, as a mid game walk out effects the whole table in a way the other people at the table can't avoid dealing with.
You saying you don't want to play anymore doesn't have the same impact that can't be avoided. People know before they plan the drive, etc...
A player not coming back is something that happens for lots of reasons, including a GM not running a story that was interesting enough to get the player to want to play.
I think that is a completely different animal than a mid-game walk out, as a mid game walk out effects the whole table in a way the other people at the table can't avoid dealing with.
You saying you don't want to play anymore doesn't have the same impact that can't be avoided. People know before they plan the drive, etc...
Is walking out mid-game really that huge of an impact, though? Again this may vary depending on group composition, but when I'm had player leave because something work-related came up, we were always able to continue just fine, unless it was already late and we reached a good stopping point anyhow.
Then again, groups that have just 3-4 players might be more affected by that, especially if the GM doesn't like playing PCs for absent players, and it isn't quite the same when someone walks out in an angry huff, but I don't see a reason why the game has to stop there unless the other players wanted to leave also.
I've walked out on games, but always under the same circumstance. For any game I play, I let everyone know ahead of time when I will have to leave. If the game runs long, then I make my goodbyes and leave.
Table flipping, hitting people and yelling all are pretty counter productive. If you do not like how someone runs the game, either take time out later to discuss it with them or do not play with them. Short of family or being in prison, none of us have to associate with people we dislike or can not get along with.
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Is walking out mid-game really that huge of an impact, though? Again this may vary depending on group composition, but when I'm had player leave because something work-related came up, we were always able to continue just fine, unless it was already late and we reached a good stopping point anyhow.Then again, groups that have just 3-4 players might be more affected by that, especially if the GM doesn't like playing PCs for absent players, and it isn't quite the same when someone walks out in an angry huff, but I don't see a reason why the game has to stop there unless the other players wanted to leave also.
Having to leave happens, particularly with those of us who have kids. I think everyone understands that.
It's more the "I'm leaving to make a point that you suck!" that I think is up for debate.