Enlarge Person
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Medium/Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
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Lead Blades
Lead blades increases the momentum and density of your melee weapons just as they strike a foe. All melee weapons you are carrying when the spell is cast deal damage as if one size category larger than they actually are. For instance, a Medium longsword normally deals 1d8 points of damage, but it would instead deal 2d6 points of damage if benefiting from lead blades (see table below). Only you can benefit from this spell. If anyone else uses one of your weapons to make an attack it deals damage as normal for its size.
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So a Large (Huge after enlarged) creature with Enlarge person would deal weapon Damage as a gargantuan weapon?
Yes. Nothing in either spell or the general rules on magic states they do not. The key issue here is 'are they both size changes' and the answer is no, they are not both size changes. Only Enlarge Person is a size change while Lead Blades increases the base damage as if it were one size larger.
Out of curiosity, what race is the recipient of the Enlarge Person spell?
- Gauss
Yes. Nothing in either spell or the general rules on magic states they do not. The key issue here is 'are they both size changes' and the answer is no, they are not both size changes. Only Enlarge Person is a size change while Lead Blades increases the base damage as if it were one size larger.
Out of curiosity, what race is the recipient of the Enlarge Person spell?
- Gauss
Humanoid Type
I asked what race, not what type. I'm curious what PC race is size large or if this is an NPC humanoid that is size large.
- Gauss
Chevalier83, size changing magic (such as Enlarge Person) has no effect while under the effects of a Polymorph effect (such as Monstrous Physique).
- Gauss
Yeah, makes a ranger/living monolith quite the beast, perhaps a wild stalker tiefling, alter self sometimes and Ka stone enlarge others. Or, one hand two handers with a barb two ranger 4 living monolith. Swinging fireballs!
Also, spear sized arrows, the gravity bow spell, and enlarge person do the same thing, just add that bow ability that matches the str of the wielder. I say spear sized arrows since they change size when they leave the large bow (thus only effected by gravity bow.
Now the real question is, would these both stack with an Impact Weapon?
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You can create your own costume race and have it large sized if the DM allows you to use the ''Race Builder'' method sistem displayed in the Avanced Race Guide.
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Now the real question is, would these both stack with an Impact Weapon?
Certainly seems like they could. At the very least, enlarge would definitely work with an impact weapon. GM ruling might say impact weapon and lead blades wouldn't stack, since they are essentially the same effect (and it's one of the potential spell req's to make Impact), but I don't see anything RAW why it couldn't work.
Large character with enlarge person, lead blades wielding an impact weapon, deals damage as if colossal? Sounds fun to me!
Enlarge and Impact stack. Enlarge alters size, impact does not. It just alters the base damage without actually changing the size.
- Gauss
costume race
Custom race?
Nefreet is correct, and I didnt even see that Dazz was trying to stack Impact with Lead Blades. They are the same thing, they cannot stack.
- Gauss
I asked what race, not what type. I'm curious what PC race is size large or if this is an NPC humanoid that is size large.
- Gauss
Ahh Sorry. Yeah Its just a custom made race build with the Racer Builder from Advanced Race Guide.
There is no large race that i know of, but Synthesist Summoner that wears his large eidolon might work ....
Breiti
But yah I get the point. I probably shouldnt allow to make custom races with the Advanced Race Guide in which case would deny access to Larger playable races.
Out of curiousity, is there a single class (min 3/4 bab) with access to both and say martial proficiency ( or I suppose a half-orc with falchion )?
Oath agaisnt the Wyrm paladin gets it, and I know the Strength Domain from 3.5 also had it.
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Out of curiousity, is there a single class (min 3/4 bab) with access to both and say martial proficiency ( or I suppose a half-orc with falchion )?Oath agaisnt the Wyrm paladin gets it, and I know the Strength Domain from 3.5 also had it.
Strength Domain still gets Enlarge Person as a Domain Spell. The Growth sub-domain gets it as a Swift class feature.
Only rangers get lead blades as far as I know, and they are one of the few classes not to get access to enlarge person. That wouldn't stop a character with high UMD from getting wands of both spells.
Actually, Metal Mystery Oracles can get Lead Blades as well as one of their bonus spells.
The SRD has let me down again. :(Only rangers get lead blades as far as I know, and they are one of the few classes not to get access to enlarge person. That wouldn't stop a character with high UMD from getting wands of both spells.Actually, Metal Mystery Oracles can get Lead Blades as well as one of their bonus spells.
Don't feel bad, I only came across it when I was looking to build out an oracle with the metal mystery. This thread caused me to remember that I had seen it somewhere otherwise I would've also thought that the only class to get lead blades spell was the ranger.
The SRD should have an asterisk next to it for that metal oracle.
The SRD has let me down again. :(Only rangers get lead blades as far as I know, and they are one of the few classes not to get access to enlarge person. That wouldn't stop a character with high UMD from getting wands of both spells.Actually, Metal Mystery Oracles can get Lead Blades as well as one of their bonus spells.
Yeah, they really need to list Oathbound spells as well as Mystery spells and maybe even bloodline spells imo. Summon Paizo Staff member!!!
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Only rangers get lead blades as far as I know, and they are one of the few classes not to get access to enlarge person. That wouldn't stop a character with high UMD from getting wands of both spells.
Wand and Potion works better, albeit more expensively, as a Potion of Enlarge Person only takes a Standard Action versus 1 full round for a wand.
Price out whether it's cheaper to go into Independent spell research to learn lead blades, and know you will have to waste a spell/action every fight, or just buy the Impact enchantment. Or, do the independent research, then pay a wizard to cast permanency, tho that one takes a nice DM, and you will be subject to dispelling.
For the umpteenth time, Lead Blades and Impact do not work together.
Where do you get that from?
They both cause the weapon to deal damage as if it were one size bigger. Medium weapon dealing damage 1 size bigger is large. 2 effects that deal 1 size bigger both say deal large size damage, not 2 sizes bigger.
Impact Enchanted Weapon - An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. This is a transmutation enhancement for your weapon damage dice specifically.
Lead Blades - All melee weapons you are carrying when the spell is cast deal damage as if one size category larger than they actually are. This is a transmutation spell which enhances your weapon damage dice specifically.
Core Book page 11: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
The TYPE (weapon enhancement) for both of these are spells/enchantments that are placed on weapons to make them hit harder (size category larger).
Pretty simple.
Edit: I forgot to put the correct type. It's a transmutation specific to your weapon to make the weapon deal more damage. As per the stacking rules they both do exactly the same thing so you wouldn't get doubled up on those. The reason that the Enlarge works on both is that the weapon grows in size with you so it's not specific to your weapon, it's a byproduct of the spell being placed on you, then you add on the lead blades OR impact enchantment. Sorry for any confusion.
I think they do stack, they just have equivalent bonuses that don't increase off each other.
Lead blades says deal damage as 1 size bigger. For a normal medium weapon, that means damage as a large weapon. The weapon itself still is medium.
Impact says deal damage as 1 size bigger. For a normal medium weapon, that means damage as a large weapon. For a medium weapon under the effect of lead blades, it is still a medium weapon.
Their effects are redundant, but they stack together fine.
ub3r n3rd's reasoning would mean that you couldn't stack impact with enlarge person, as they are both transmutation spells. This is incorrect.
I updated my post above to correct it. See my Edit.
I think they do stack, they just have equivalent bonuses that don't increase off each other.
Lead blades says deal damage as 1 size bigger. For a normal medium weapon, that means damage as a large weapon. The weapon itself still is medium.
Impact says deal damage as 1 size bigger. For a normal medium weapon, that means damage as a large weapon. For a medium weapon under the effect of lead blades, it is still a medium weapon.
Their effects are redundant, but they stack together fine.
ub3r n3rd's reasoning would mean that you couldn't stack impact with enlarge person, as they are both transmutation spells. This is incorrect.
This sounds the most correct to me.
The only problem with Lead Blades and Impact stacking are they are the same effect. Impact has Lead Blades as a component. It is based on Lead Blades.
Lead Blades and Impact are the same effect from different sources. That effect is a die size increase applied to the weapon itself without changing the actual size of the weapon. Thus, it does not stack.
Lead Blades and Enlarge Person are two different effects. One is the weapon's effective damage, the other is the size of the creature (and his carried equipment) actually increasing size.
- Gauss
The only problem with Lead Blades and Impact stacking are they are the same effect. Impact has Lead Blades as a component. It is based on Lead Blades.
Lead Blades and Impact are the same effect from different sources. That effect is a die size increase applied to the weapon itself without changing the actual size of the weapon. Thus, it does not stack.
Lead Blades and Enlarge Person are two different effects. One is the weapon's effective damage, the other is the size of the creature (and his carried equipment) actually increasing size.
- Gauss
The first one isn't an issue, it doesn't mean anything that the impact weapon uses the lead blades as one of the requirements for crafting.
The second one i can understand.The third one is correct.