Thus She Spoke: A Words of Power Sorcereress Guide


Advice

51 to 77 of 77 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

ZanThrax wrote:
If you boost the Selected target word (the only valid target for Servitor words), the effects of all words in the spell are increased by three.

Oh, right, I missed the part where it was explained that it was the target part that had to be boosted. -_-

Yeah, definitely not worth it.

Still, going to try the experimental spellcaster with a sorcerer, if the GM allows me (btw, it could be a good chapter for the guide offering some suggestion for an efficient word selection for someone only trying it out with that feat... with few words it's important to choose the best ones...)


How does the Eldritch Researcher story feat interact with Words of Power?

Ultimate Campaign wrote:


ELDRITCH RESEARCHER (STORY)
You seek new applications for magical energy.

Prerequisite: You must have created a new spell, or have The Way Things Work background.

Benefit: When casting a spell you've created, add 1 to your caster level. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks. If you have 10 or more ranks in Spellcraft, this bonus increases to +4.

Goal: Create a new spell of at least 6th level.

Completion Benefit: The save DCs for any spells you create increase by 1 when you cast them. In addition, when applying metamagic feats to self-created spells, reduce the total level adjustment by 1. You can't reduce metamagic costs to lower than the spell's original level in this manner.

Special: For a self-created spell to benefit from this feat, it must be a truly novel spell. Spells slightly altered from the original (for example, delayed blast fireball as compared to fireball) gain no benefit. Alchemists can benefit from this feat as though their formulae and extracts were spells.


Bit of a thread Necro here, but in answer to Real Sorceror's question, I would say that they could not interact at all. There are no rules for creating NEW Words of Power, and with good reason! Think about it, Words of Power are the basis on which modern spells are created, they are the Alphabet of Spellcasting. So to create new Words would be like adding new Letters to the English Language, sort of.


ZanThrax wrote:
If you boost the Selected target word (the only valid target for Servitor words), the effects of all words in the spell are increased by three.

I don't think that's what Boosted does in this case. If you boost the TARGET word, the effects of all Words are increased by three. However, if you are Boosting the EFFECT Word then no increase is incurred. If you look under the Servitor IX Word, it still says that it can be Boosted. How could that be if the end Word would need to be powered by a Level 12 Spell Slot, and there is no such thing as a Level 12 Spell?


I see nothing in the text of Servitor IX that's any different from Servitor I (other than the level of the summon lists). As far as I can see, there is no Boost entry for any of the Servitor Words. Thus, the Effect Words Servitor (I through IX) cannot be boosted. They have a sentence that describes the effect of boosting the Target Word that is combined with the Effect Word. It's the same sentence in all nine Word descriptions.

Almost as if they were a quick copy & paste job in an optional rule system and neither the writer nor the editor took the time to consider that the sentence had no purpose in the three highest level Servitor words since they can't be increased beyond level nine.

Just because a sentence in the rules tells you what happens if something that isn't possible happens first, doesn't mean that the impossible becomes possible. It just means that the writer and/or editor didn't notice that the thing described can't happen. (See the recent Eagle Shaman ruling and discussion for an example.)


I see where I've gone wrong here. The entry says:

If the target word is boosted, a wordspell with this effect word summons 1d4+1 of the chosen creatures.

And then as you said by looking at the Selected entry, the only Target that the Servitor Words can have, it says that you increase it's Level by three.
So yes, an editing error must be the reason for Servitor Words 7 to 9.
Drat!


For some reason, I can't see the document anymore. The page loads, but it's blank. :(


Azten wrote:
For some reason, I can't see the document anymore. The page loads, but it's blank. :(

It's still there to me.


Well, sucks to be me then. :/

What's really weird is that I can still view his Blockbuster Wizard pdf...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Finally someone else taking a dive at WoP
nicely written so far (still reading)

I especially like your approach to different interpretations on the wording in this system.


However ...

I can not find a legitimation for frost fingers having no save if used with selected targetword.

In fact i only see burning flash that explicitly denies the save if only one target is hit.


I'm sorry to Necro the merry hell out of this thread, but there's a few questions about this guide I'd like to ask.

First off is the trick of using Spell Focus (Conjuration) with the Evocation/Conjuration combination wordspells. In the SRD on WoP, it specifically states under Wordspell Schools: "If a wordspell has more than one effect word, it can belong to more than one school, although it never benefits from effects based on school (such as Spell Focus) more than once."

Essentially, you can either have your spell benefit from Focus (Conjuration) or Focus (Evocation), but not both. Is there something I'm missing here? Because the guide says you can benefit from both.

Second is a few of the Effect word combos that are suggested in the Tables near the end of the guide, as well as a few in the Bloodlines section. For instance, using a Fire 1/Acid 4 wordspell to benefit from the Draconic Bloodline Arcana, or the idea of combining an Ice Blast with Fire or Lightning Blasts.

The problem here is that in the Effect Word Combinations table, there's no wordspell level that permits a combination of those two levels. Odd-numbered effect words combo together, even-numbered ones similarly. I'm unsure if there's some minutiae of the system that I'm missing?


Regarding the second question: the rules and one of the examples state that you can prepare a word in a higher slot (much like a spell caster can prepare a 3rd level spell in a 4th level slot).


Has anyone played a class w/words of power recently? How did it do for you?


No, but I keep meaning to try Experimental Spellcaster at some point.


blahpers wrote:
Regarding the second question: the rules and one of the examples state that you can prepare a word in a higher slot (much like a spell caster can prepare a 3rd level spell in a 4th level slot).

This is true, but that doesn't change the fundamental levels of the words themselves. While you could happily prepare a 5th-level wordspell in a 9th level slot (for instance), that wouldn't change the fact that the 5th-level wordspell in question must be made up of either a 5th level effect word, a 4th level plus a 2nd level, or three 2nd level words. That said it's a Sorcerer guide I'm referring to, so I hadn't thought about prepared spells when I posed the question.

I should also clarify that on further reading the Fire 1/Acid 4 wordspell example I took from the guide is maybe possible if you apply the Boost to the Fire word. It increases the level of the *Effect Word* by one, which presumably turns it into a Level 2 effect word, temporarily. Both a prepared caster and a spontaneous caster could use this trick. Although that's one of those fiddly little things that it's probably best to get your GM to rule on. This doesn't invalidate the question about combining a Fire Blast with Ice Blast, though.


@KBrewer: Thanks for the guide. This has been most helpful in me finding the inspiration to try out this system for a gestalt campaign we'll be playing, where we're encouraged to break stuff mostly.

Having looked at this, a suggestion for your guide: If you point people down the path of Abyssal Bloodline since these people know they're going to hit level 15... I'd highly suggest nudging them towards the Superior Summoning feat. This is completely abuseable, so being able to summon 3 full stength monsters with a standard action is awesome. You can tie this into your WoP Oracle guide as well.

Since I'm playing gestalt... I've looked at all the options (Only allowed to pull from paizo.com PRD), and I decided to go with Paladin. The ability to get my CHA mod added to all my saves (negating that nasty -2 will save penalty for crossblooded) was delicious enough... but... if you do a strict reading of Smite Evil... it applies to spells. RAW, it applies to all spells that are an "attack", which can be interpreted as anything that could break invis, though the more reasonable approach would be to have it apply to anything with an attack roll. Against the BBEG at the end of the dungeon, at level 1 with my 20 CHA, I'd be able to get +5 AB and +1 damage to my spell (+2 if the BBEG is an evil outsider/dragon/undead). Not sure if this would be worth a dip at all in a normal game, but...

Along with full BAB progression... if any of you are playing Gestalt and considering what your second class to use other than your WoP Sorcerer should be... I'd highly suggest Paladin. On top of that stuff above, you get a buttload of lay on hands that you can heal yourself as a swift with, the auras to give you immunities, abuseable mount, and then there's the Paladin spells... use the normal spell list, and get action-economy busting spells like Hero's Defiance to auto-heal as an immediate action, or, abusing the above smite evil, start applying Fire of Entanglement spell as a swift to entangle any smite evil targets you hit with your spell attacks for 1 round/level. There's equivilent fire spells at every level, and furthermore, Paladin has a number of other immediate/swift action spells.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh, and lest I forget, for Paladin/WoP Sorcerer Gestalt: The litany spells are great as swift actions, but the best is Litany of Righteousness

Double all your damage for your spells against a target as a swift for one round. Litany is language dependent, but if you take Maestro bloodline, at level 8 everyone that can speak a language understands you. This means if you do crossblooded Primal/Maestro, you're the perfect blaster in this gestalt situation.

In the example he gave about how bonkers specific spell feats for blasters are, Brewer said that at level 15, with Magical Lineage, Spell Specialization, and Spell Perfection all aimed at Acid Burn, a Maximized Intensified Acid Burn + Lightning Blast + Fire Blast with Boosted Burst, you'd get 20d6 damage over an 80 foot area. Let's say you also have Crossblooded Maestro/Primal Elemental Acid bloodlines. Well, if the BBEG is surrounded with his evil mooks, you could call for Smite Evil upon him the turn before, then the following turn, use Litany of Righteousness as swift and cast the damage spell, you'd get 20d6+ 20 (Primal) + 15 (Smite Evil) for the BBEG, and 20d6+20 for the rest. Then after resolving those damages, assuming they're evil, you'd -double- them, for a whopping 40d6+40+30 on the BBEG, and 40d6+40 for the rest.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TheRedArmy wrote:
Mergy wrote:
TheRedArmy wrote:

This looks super. In about 709 years, when I can finally play my Varisian Harrower Sorceress I want to do, I'll be looking to this guide. I'll give a more formal critique when I have the time to fully read it, but it looks great. Thanks for your effort!

EDIT: I do have a question. Why does it stop at 6th-level spells (12th level)? Is it primarily designed for PFS?

Considering the system isn't allowed in PFS, I doubt that's the intention.
I didn't realize. Thanks. But now my original question is valid again. Why only go to level twelve?

Presumably because he may not have sufficient experience play wise to evaluate play at those levels. The vast majority of at home campaigns rarely go beyond 12th level, and many don't even make it that far.

Quite frankly if a guide is a good guide, once it's taken you that far, you SHOULD be able to go the rest of the journey on your own, if you've internalised the theory behind it, rather than reading it like a robot and never go beyond the level of having the answers spoonfed into you.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I know the person that did this guide is missing, but I feel it's a really good guide, and feel the need to (as I'm playing my gestalt wordcaster) to make some additional comments, corrections, and suggestions. So apologies for necro.

First: The author makes note of a level 9 caster using the "Glide" spell for 9 minutes, when it's round per level, not minute per level. Keep this in mind for your planning, though it's still a great spell.

Second: Fog Bank is more exploitable than the author lets on. The key thing to do with Fog Bank is to -always- -always- Boost it.
Step 1.) Cast Boosted Fog Bank over yourself, giving you Total or normal Concealment.
Step 2.) Wait until Next turn.
Step 3.) Next turn, Step outside of Fog Bank by one square, fire your spell or whatever, then use a swift to move the Fog Bank 10 feet, covering yourself with normal/Total Concealment.
Step 4.) Rinse and Repeat

This is -really- powerful. And not only is it powerful for you, but you can have your fellow party members use the Delay action to set themselves up on the initiative next to yours, and with coordinated movement, you can all benefit from the same effect each round. Ranged Rogue needs concealment to cloak for their sneak attack each round? Done. Does a party member just want 50% miss chance on them for the rest of the encounter? Done. Be creative with this. And then your GM shall always keep a moderate wind/fire area spell at the ready to clear it.

Third: Crossblooded... Some things to keep in mind...
1.) While you get one less spell known per level (And therefore one less word known per level), you still get the slots for that spell level. So you won't get your second level word at sorcerer level 4th, but you can still combine two cantrips for your 2nd level spell slot 4 times a day... say for instance, Acid Burn and Flame Jet, let's say you have a 20 Charisma and Spell Focus: Conjure... that's 1d3+1d4 with a 20ft Cone, and a DC 18 reflex save for half on each of those separate dice. Not amazing, but it's surely something, and more so at later spell transition levels.
2.) If your GM agreed to allow you to use the Human Sorcerer Extra Spell Favored Class Option for words: For levels 1-4, you can use those for cantrips as those are spells that are below your highest spell level you can cast, and furthermore... since you have to take Meta Words in place of one of your spells, keep in mind that Distant and Lengthy are Meta Words that are 0 Level, and therefore you could take them in this way. Also keep in mind that like the example provided before, you -can- cast level 2 spells at 4th level, and therefore can start getting your bonus 1st level spell from this Favored Class Option at that point.

Two additional notes on Paladin/WoP Sorcerer Gestalt Cheese:
First: I think in my previous example I doubled dice with Litany of Righteousness. That was incorrect, as it doubles the result, not the dice. This is very key. Wish I could edit posts.
Second: I've figured out that if I went with the second level word "Corrosive Bolt" for Magical Lineage, along with Primal Elemental Acid/Maestro Bloodlines at level 10, with Smite Evil and Litany of Righteousness... I could cast Intensified Lengthy Selected Corrosive Bolt on an Evil Outsider, and get
5d4(base)+5d4(Intensify)+10(Primal)+20(Smite Evil), which gives a potential of 70 Damage, and then Litany of Righteousness doubles the result for a potential 140 Damage just on the first round, and should this Evil Outsider try to cast a spell (or spell-like ability), it must face a potential DC 82 Concentration Check to do so, since spell-likes require a Concentration check as well. On the following rounds, it would deal (5d4+5d4+10+10)*2, for three more rounds after the first. Such a wonderful, exploitable, spell.


I have recently gotten into a kingmaker campaign, my first pathfinder experience. Rolled up a WoP sorc. this guide has been a great asset to my character. I appreciate all the work that has been put into this guide.


Wildblooded Primal is easily beaten by Crosslooded Orc/Draconic. However the Orc Bloodline is not mentioned in the guide.

@BeAuMan Primal can not be used with Crossblooded, since it requires the Wildblooded archetype and you can not have two archetypes.


It's possible Orc Bloodline was not out when the guide was created, and Brewer hasn't been heard from in a while.


Black hissing ash rises like steam from the lich as they complete their dark magics. There is a thrum of ancient magic signaling the success of the spell before they turn to glare at the blue robed figure behind them. In one hand, a half empty flask of holy water, the other a light chain glowing with runes that ends lashed around the lich's form. "Thank you, your services are no longer required. May Palor find rest for your soul." the robed figure calls before breaking the flask over the lich's skull, cleansing away the last of it's unholy HP. The figure drops the chains and steps forward to the alter, raising their hands high. "From the depths, I summon thee . . . Ancient Thread!"

Well, five year old thread having been properly necromanced, I come bearing news and a suggestion! Words of Power, still a thing, and still fun. However, an interesting thought ran across my mind while working with a character using this variant system. What about Sacred Geometry? I know that just mentioning the very name of that feat may earn me more ire than the sheer act of necromancing a long dead thread from Dungeon Masters around the world, but hear me out first before you sick the fighters on me.

It's pretty much agreed that Meta Words are effectively unique Metamagic feats. They function in the exact same manor, altering spells by adjusting their spell level. So I asked myself, "Why can't I use Sacred Geometry with Meta Words? It seems plausible.." And so I did some thinking as a Dungeon Master myself. Thankfully the years of conjuring up random NPC personalities and lonely week days with nothing to do but read or talk to myself paid off and I was able to build an argument for this to be able to work. In variant magic systems, such as Dreamscar Press's Psionics Unleashed, there are generally a list of transparency rules to help integrate them into a given game world easier. Such as Read/Detect magic and Spell Resistance working both ways, ect. With Meta Words being, for all intents and purposes Metamagic feats in their purpose and function, then the same transparency has a standing to apply here as well.

It will entirely depend on your Dungeon Master, granted. Just as I had to approach my own for the game I'm using my Word Caster in. But if they agree, usually to some form of terms such as mine where as long as I could do the math before my round in combat so I didn't bog things down I was all good, then Sacred Geometry can indeed work with Words of Power. And while it does significantly help your blasting and crowd control capability, it hands down makes you the single best conjurer in the game. Being able to summon up to 1d4+3 creatures as a standard action. 1d4+1 from Boosted Servitor which makes it viable much earlier. +1 from the Abyssal or Brutal bloodline if it's some form of daemon. And +1 from Superior Summoning the feat. Good s++& yeah?


With all the new bloodlines that have come out since this was last updated what are the really solid choices for a Sorcerer focused on buffing/debuffing? Back in the thread from a few years ago someone said the author has not been seen in some time which is really sad because I would love to see this updated.


--Kharn-- wrote:
With all the new bloodlines that have come out since this was last updated what are the really solid choices for a Sorcerer focused on buffing/debuffing? Back in the thread from a few years ago someone said the author has not been seen in some time which is really sad because I would love to see this updated.

Well, as always the Crossblooded archtype is your go to. As for bloodlines for debuffing, that depends. Debuffing is easier with Word Casting as, as pointed out in the guide you can change the save type by combinding words into a spell slot, using the highest word as the save type. Sickening Undead with Wrack on a Reflex save is always fun.

But for more of an answer for your question, I would suggest the Impossible Bloodline as it allows you to bypass construct's normal immunity to mind effecting by treating them as people for your charm and compulsion spells which is super handy. But if you don't run into allot of golems then the Arcana can be wasted. However, it does give you a bunch of item creation boons which make you the single most efficient crafter in the game if that's something you'd like to do. As well as in my opinion the most hilarious lvl 15 power for any bloodline that also happens to be the best version of having a climb speed in the game.

There is also Fey Bloodline with gives compulsion spells +2 to their save DC. It's first and fifteenth level powers are great for it as well, the 1'st being what is arguably a stronger version of the staggered condition and the 15'th allowing you to roll twice and take the better vs Spell Resistance. It's 9'th level power is also great as your level in round per day Greater Invisibility.

The Maestro Bloodline has some good powers for charm and compulsion.
The Ghoul Bloodline gives you a ghoul's touch attack with all the bells and whistles, strength damage and paralysis included. As well as a respectable burrow speed and fast healing 10.

I may also suggest you get your hands on the Sorcerer's Robe if you grab the Impossible, Ghoul, or Fey Bloodlines. As it allows you too three times a day apply your first level bloodline power to any spell you cast as a swift action, using the spell's DC. So tacking say Ghoul's Touch onto a 6'th level save or suck spell with a DC of 28 (10 + 6 + 10 mod from 30 Cha +2 from Greater Spell Focus Conjuration) can make it hurt just that little bit more for debuff at dealing 1d4 Strength damage and inflicting paralysis for 1d4 rounds without the need to go up into melee and hope to god you hit and your target fails a much lower save.

Remember that the Eldritch Heritage feat tree is a thing if you really want to stack on the Bloodline Powers. And that the Robe of Arcane Heritage is the single best item you can get as a Sorcerer. Allowing you to count as four levels higher (yes, beyond your normal level) for the purposes of deciding what Bloodline Powers you have access to and how strong they are. Because getting your 9'th level bloodline power at level 5 is pretty f%&&in great.

Yes, I do indeed know that I just listed two chest slot items for suggested gear. But, if your DM isn't a stickler for strict by the book, you may be able to convince him to allow you to combined the prices for the items to combined them into one, or turn one into a body slot item to wear them ala jedi robes and sleeved cloak.


Wildblooded (dark fey) is fey but for curses. The psychic bloodline could be useful if you want to hide that you're casting spells. Besides Stigiroth's suggestions that's all that's new and relevant to buffing/debuffing.

Though I'd have to disagree with the OP about wildblooded (void-touched). Adding silence as a rider to an evocation spell, possibly one with rime spell for more debuffing potential, seems pretty good. It comes with a naturally creepy vibe too.

51 to 77 of 77 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Thus She Spoke: A Words of Power Sorcereress Guide All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice