Do your players pull this kind of crap on you? Or do I just have a unique blend of emotional sadists in my group?
RD: No pirate game this weekend. Not enough pirates.
Bill: Hey RD, I just wanted to let you know I’ll not be able to participate in Pirates anymore. :( Sorry man.
RD: How come?
Bill: So I have time to host Kingmaker. Also, Rick will be dropping the campaign to make time for Kingmaker as well. We both love Pirates, but the truth is your player basis is very weak. Rick and I seem to be the only ones interested and dedicated. Charles hardly has time and your brother would rather play his video games and hang with online friends, also school stuff. So seems like our options are limited. Awesome campaign, but what good is a great campaign if we can’t play ya’ know?
RD: :C
Bill: What’s that mean?
RD: It’s a sad face.
Bill: Sorry man, I talked to Rick about it a lot and we think it would be the wiser decision to focus on the game with dependable players even though we’d rather play Pirates.
RD: Sounds sensible. I will be expecting a kickass Kingmaker game though.
Bill: I can’t make promises, but I will try. Also, let me make it very clear: you are invited, your brother is not.
RD: Kinda’ figured.
Bill: You figured correctly.
[Next Day]
Bill: Hey man, hope you aren’t too upset about last night.
RD: It sucks balls, but I’ll get over it. Being excited about Kingmaker helps a little.
Bill: Did you talk to Charles?
RD: Not yet, was planning to though.
Bill: He’s pissed. He blames your brother.
RD: I’m sure you spun it towards that outcome. You guys always do. ~pissed~
Bill: No I didn’t, actually.
RD: Well, I still plan on talking to Charles in any event. He was out this weekend too, it makes no sense to blame my brother.
RD: Doesn’t make sense for anyone to blame my brother. He is no more or less reliable than any of the rest of us: Charles with his family, you with your girls, Rick with his ‘alt’ groups, me and my laziness, my brother and his studies. No, not going to let you put it ALL on my brother. No way.
Bill: Also, my room mate bought the Skull and Shackles modules [that you are currently using] and says he can host it instead of Savage Tides. He has invited you to play if you don’t give away secrets. He’s letting us play our current characters so that’s pretty cool.
Bill: I don’t think it’s about this weekend man; I kind of had plans anyways.
RD: I wasn’t planning on dropping SandS yet, but I will consider it. No way am I going for it if it’s just a means of phasing my brother out.
Bill: Dude I didn’t say anything about your brother. Calm the [expletive] down. You talk to Charles.
RD: Alright, I will.
Bill: What’s SandS?
RD: Skull and Shackles. :P
Bill: Well, I guess that’s that, man. I’ll let my room mate know. At least you will be able to play Kingmaker. ;)
Bill: If it hasn’t occurred to you yet, we are totally [expletive] with you.
RD: I figured it unlikely that you guys were such ‘asshats.’ SO. NOT. FUNNY.
Bill: I know. ;)
RD: Why do you two insist on tugging on my heart strings so? I am not a harp to be played.
Bill: Yes you are, and I’m a player. To me you are an instrument to be toyed with and make noises … Muhahaha!
RD: Guess you were just bored for lack of a game today. Thanks for wasting my morning with a bunch of useless drama.
Bill: And last night too.
This is the second time they've pulled a stunt like this--all to get a rise out of me, one that is recorded and can be easily shared with the rest of our friends for a laugh. I'm clearly upset at the blatant emotional manipulation, but just how pissed should I be really?
* Names have been changed for reasons of privacy.
Enough to stop playing with them, I'd say. They clearly enjoy playing you more than they enjoy playing Pathfinder.
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Well it's not like you actually had a strong response to record.
Maybe you should give 'em what they want. Get loud, get mean, insult their grandmas or somethin'.
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No my players don't, because my friends aren't c&*@s.
I don't see the problem. This sounds like the kind of stuff me and my friends do to each other quite often, but then again I am not you so I suppose I wouldn't know...
No my players don't even think of doing things like this. They know I'm insecure on this point. And some of them know I can get very angry.
You're reaction wasn't very strong in my opinion.
I couldn't take this kind of stuff, but if you can and they're fun to play with, keep playing.
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Since when is a healthy venting on the forums considered the least bit passive aggressive? I think you should look up the definition of the term.
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I'm not sure how many times did I post "RD, change your gaming group" over those years but looks like I've got to do that again...
Also, in before "but they're the only people in my area": it's better not to game at all than to game with people that cause your blood pressure to soar.
Additionally forums populated by hyperventilating opinionated nerds who can go on a rampage because it's +2 and not +4 are the last good place for advice on human interaction, really.
Venting isn't actually healthy by the way, it just makes you more angry in general
Venting is certainly better than keeping things bottled up but I didn't really read it as venting. I saw it more as "look at this funny things these guys did to me."
I'd be totally pissed, even if they were just f'ing with me.
lol no that was good. I love the bit where he goes.
Bill: Also, my room mate bought the Skull and Shackles modules [that you are currently using] and says he can host it instead of Savage Tides. He has invited you to play if you don’t give away secrets. He’s letting us play our current characters so that’s pretty cool.
That is so dickish.lol. Looks like harmless teasing to me. How often do they do this? Every couple of months? twice a year? As long as its not every week I dont really see a problem. Teasing is a sign of affection (not to be mixed with bullying wich is different).
I get the feeling that they go after your brother often tough, that must be really annoying. Dont know how you could convey to them that your brother is off-limit without pointing a big red arrow that says "If you are trying to get a rise out of me this is very effective".
Anyway good luck with that
I have a few friends that are like that. I limit the time I hang out with them or talk to them, but don't actively avoid them or anything.
I don't know you personally, and this would all depend on delivery and their personalities. But I would talk to them (one-on-one or in a group depending on personality) and say that if they keep pulling stuff like this then something is going to have to change.
I'm not sure how many times did I post "RD, change your gaming group" over those years but looks like I've got to do that again...
Also, in before "but they're the only people in my area": it's better not to game at all than to game with people that cause your blood pressure to soar.
Additionally forums populated by hyperventilating opinionated nerds who can go on a rampage because it's +2 and not +4 are the last good place for advice on human interaction, really.
Alexandre Dumas said it best.
“As a general rule...people ask for advice only in order not to follow it; or if they do follow it, in order to have someone to blame for giving it.”
RD, let's face it. You're not going to talk to them. You're not going to find new friends. You haven't in the past and you certainly won't do it in the future. They are going to keep on f!$!ing with you and there's nothing you're going to do about it. So just give up and get used to it. Laugh and smile since this is clearly the best human interaction you're willing to allow yourself to receive.
What is there to say to them? They know I don't like it. That's why they do it.
Something on this scale doesn't happen too often. Twice a year sounds about right.
I posted it here because I have mixed feelings on the issue. I can see the humor in the prank, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still feeling the emotional shock of it hours after the fact. Guess I was just wanting some clarity.
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If you really want to make some money have a "Monty Python Quotes" jar!
So they did it twice do you....there is a old saying 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.'
Another words don't fall for it again.
Well, you can either find a different group of friends that might be more compatible for you and maybe even enjoy life just a little bit more. Or make a Livejournal account to talk about how terrible they are and at least have that emotional gratification when people confirm that yes, they are pricks. Up to you, but YOU are the one that really needs to make a decision and change your life because no one, certainly not some anonymous guy on the internet, is going to do it for you. So what is it going to be?
Is Livejournal even still a thing?
Uh RD; if they are the only local game group available... VT. There are a number of them available, some online, some hosted on your own machine. They often have their own communities / forums. It's not quite like being there but it's close. And no jerks to worry about. Hopefully. And, if there are they're easier to avoid.
F+$$, once I understand Roll20 and get my game off the ground, I will invite you to play!
I have made many, many posts regarding the KoaDP (King of all Disruptive Players) over the years, both on this board, the old 3.5 boards, and many others. He did a lot over time to disrupt our various games, both during and in-between sessions. Some people are just rotten that way, I guess.
But this particular text exchange has me thinking of one particular instance of disruptive behavior that to this day stands out because it was so frustrating and one of those situations you can find yourself in, where you feel helpless to stem the hemorrhaging. I won't go into the details of the session that caused this exchange, as you probably can glean much of the situation from the conversation (which took place at the KoaDP's place of work - don't worry, the place was always dead so there were no witnesses). Note that I was the DM, it was 1995 (2nd Edition), and I put a decent amount of work into the campaign.
KoaDP: Yeah... about the game... I had a long, long talk with (Mutual Friend) and we decided it's best to put the game on hold, indefinitely.
Me: You guys decided to end the game without talking to me or your brother? Can I ask why?
KoaDP: Well, we think you're angry. You're an angry person.
Me: I'm not angry. I came in here in a good mood...
KoaDP: Yeah, well, you know, you broke up with your girlfriend recently...
Me: I broke up with my girlfriend six months ago. What does that have to do with anything?
KoaDP: We feel you're in a bad place and it makes you take the game too seriously. It makes you an angry person.
Me: First of all, you have to stop calling me an "angry person." An angry person is a person who lives his life with anger. I am just a person who got a little miffed at the last session. But I got miffed because you stopped the game to accuse me of something I wasn't doing, and you wouldn't listen to me or trust me long enough to just play through it in character. That's frustrating. You understand that it's frustrating, right?
KoaDP: Well, in any case Mutual Friend and I discussed it, and we won't be playing with you anytime soon.
Me: Well, you realize I am going to speak with Mutual Friend, right? You don't speak for him as far as I'm concerned.
KoaDP: See... you're doing it.
Me: Doing what?
KoaDP: You're showing what an angry person you've become.
Me: (Name Withheld for Legal Reasons), I'm not an "angry person." I'm getting a little angry right now because you are being so difficult and because you are making decisions for the whole group without talking with all of us.
KoaDP: God...
Me: What?
KoaDP: You are just SUCH an angry person.
(Follows a few more minutes of him refusing to listen to me, and saying all sorts of things to make me "angry" so as to prove what an "angry person" I was. Finally...)
Me: NOW I'm angry.
And I left. The Mutual Friend later admitted they had had a "discussion," but it was very one-sided with the KoaDP doing almost all the talking. The Mutual Friend was still up for playing, but in the end, we decided it probably wasn't worth it to deal with the KoaDP while he was feeling manipulative, so we put the game on hold anyway. Over the years, whenever we would get a campaign going with this guy (he's a great roleplayer, by the way, and because we were all friends since Junior High it was hard to get a game going without him), he would do similar things. For example, eventually we started using emails to schedule our sessions - the KoaDP would send out phony emails telling the group a session had been canceled or changed. He did this for fun. The hours I would spend making phone calls and sending out emails to fix the schedule after he had his "fun" were a source of great amusement to him.
People like this have very little happiness in their own lives, I have found. So they take joy in making others just a bit more miserable. When this sort of behavior kicks in, it's best to divorce yourself from the offending parties, at least long enough for them to realize you do not want to play their game. Whatever you do, do not let them make you angry or react emotionally to the situation - that's what they are hoping for. Inform them very calmly that you have other people to play with, if they do not want to be a part of things. It's a game - you can move on. They will respond more positively to a show of strength than any kind of emotional reaction.
Had this kinda Twit in a group years back. made a point of raking different people over the coals to satisfy his inner control freak. I am too old to let some life challenged loser to rip me like that again. I was too old at 8, but too stupid to realize 'till I was in my 20s.
Do you really need the hassle? Do you really need to feed these humanoid lamprey? Is your life better with soul suckers in it? I suspect your answer to be 'no', and advise you to cultivate a better grade of friends. Life is way too D**n short.
Venting is certainly better than keeping things bottled up but I didn't really read it as venting. I saw it more as "look at this funny things these guys did to me."Nope!
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/08/11/catharsis/
It is a long article, but it is important to learn about psychology imo!
When you vent your anger, you are more likely to stay angry in order to vent longer!
Well, not to knock the fine people at You are not so smart.com, but the Grant Study (Harvard Study of Adult Development) would disagree with you. Now I don't follow all of RD's posts (hope calling you RD is okay), so maybe there is more to this than I am seeing. I read it as "Oh, they got me again!" Judging from some people reactions, they seem to think he is flipping the table over in his self destructive rage. Now one of these is healthy venting and one is not (which is, I assume, your point). If you are saying it is unhealthy to express any emotion at all, then I strongly disagree with you (which you might think is unhealthy).
Most people call me RD, or even Dork. Either/or is fine with me.
Most people call me RD, or even Dork. Either/or is fine with me.
Good to know. I hate being presumptuous.
Well, not to knock the fine people at You are not so smart.com, but the Grant Study (Harvard Study of Adult Development) would disagree with you. Now I don't follow all of RD's posts (hope calling you RD is okay), so maybe there is more to this than I am seeing. I read it as "Oh, they got me again!" Judging from some people reactions, they seem to think he is flipping the table over in his self destructive rage. Now one of these is healthy venting and one is not (which is, I assume, your point). If you are saying it is unhealthy to express any emotion at all, then I strongly disagree with you (which you might think is unhealthy).
Venting is certainly better than keeping things bottled up but I didn't really read it as venting. I saw it more as "look at this funny things these guys did to me."Nope!
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/08/11/catharsis/
It is a long article, but it is important to learn about psychology imo!
When you vent your anger, you are more likely to stay angry in order to vent longer!
The thing about psychological studies is that there are so many thing influencing and going on in the human mind that one study will just not cut it. If one study suggest one thing, and a different study suggest another, it's more likely that the thing in question (venting) doesn't do much overall, and it really depends on person-to-person.
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Do your players pull this kind of crap on you?
No. I am able to avoid relationships like that; as soon as I see one like that potentially developing, I avoid that toxic person entirely and certainly do not invite them to play games with me.
This is the kind of thing that makes me glad that I handpicked every single one of my players. 8 players, almost all of them are friends at other events besides the gaming table, and they mostly get along. They pull crap sometimes, but its mild stuff that's all in good fun. My other Pathfinder group is my family, so no problems there either.
As to your problem, I have no advice to give you that has not been given already. It seems as though your options are to leave or deal with it. It seems rather obvious that "discussing your feelings" with the players is going to get you nowhere. Good luck, RD!
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Do your players pull this kind of crap on you? Or do I just have a unique blend of emotional sadists in my group?
** spoiler omitted **...
Hey RD, that sucks when players try to manipulate you like that, and I'm sure your not the only one.
I've had quite a few over the years. As I have moved states away from those who I grew up with it makes taking such [insert foul language] hard to tolerate.
I've let it slide a few times, but generally only once per person.
Here is a tactic I recommend for the next time that he does it.
Pretend its serious, have a "intervention", even schedule in new "replacement" characters for the next session.
About once a month I get a new player from the community into one of the games I run, sometimes they stay, and if they are any good they get into more of my games.
But as I recruit players for the six games that I am involved in (four I run) so its easier for me to replace players. I also admin the local games forum and have a pool of eager to jump in players.
So what I actually did to one player who pulled something similar to me (a second time) was send out a game cancelled email to everyone explaining the conversation and dropping the player responsible in the deep end, then announce that I was willing to continue the game for all those interested in playing on no matter the issues, and would be auditioning for a replacement player for those who were leaving (stating said player had confirmed he was leaving) and did they know anyone else they would like to play with.
Strangely enough that player never tried that crap on me again out of game, and in game it was up to the other players to deal with him.
There have been other manipulators, but those that try it in game end up giving the other players (and my wife) something to laugh about as they crash and burn on their own devices...
Replacing disruptive players is hard when its a friend, but its a game, and if you can't enjoy the game then eventually you'll stop playing.
The GM must have fun too, though not at the expense of the players, while the players have a right to have fun, though not at expense of the GM. When you strike a good balance, the game is a joy and seems to run itself.
Sometimes the threat of replacement is enough.
Since when is a healthy venting on the forums considered the least bit passive aggressive? I think you should look up the definition of the term.
Because it's another one of your hypotheticals and didn't really happen?
I've been in groups like that. Not for long though. The last one I was in decided to write all over my character sheet so I just walked out and just didn't come back. Joking around is cool now and then, but sometimes people cross lines and if they aren't willing to stop when you ask or when its obviously more cruel than joke I can't think of many good reasons to stick around for it.
So they did it twice do you....there is a old saying 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.'
In other words don't fall for it again.
Never heard that one.
I think the problem here is how much it affected you, RD.
And that is not something others can change. It is something only you can change. In the end, remember that all of this is only a game and should not be the be all and end all of your life.
I don't think it's the game itself that's the problem. A friend that plays around with someone else's head like that is not a friend. They may be using the game as a catalyst, but if they weren't gaming, they would have found another way to get their lulz on. This IS a serious matter--friendships and finding good friends is important in anyone's life. It's also about having the self-respect to learn to distance yourself from people who are toxic and cruel.
Since when is a healthy venting on the forums considered the least bit passive aggressive? I think you should look up the definition of the term.
Due to certain recent threads involving other posters, a trend has started where any thread posted here is labeled "passive aggressive".
It's an invalid label. This isn't some effort to tick off others on the forums. The OP is asking for advice.
Because it's another one of your hypotheticals and didn't really happen?
If it didn't happen, how is it passive aggressive?
I've noticed you have a habit of going to threads and accusing the OPs of being trolls/liars without the least shred of evidence. It's kind of annoying, and I'm sure it offends the OPs.
And here's my advice: Seriously talk to them, if you haven't already. Telling the "SO. NOT. FUNNY." isn't serious enough. Speak to them in person, and tell them it is stressful and very much not funny for you, regardless of how funny it is for them.
If you've already done this, and they ignored you, and kicking them isn't an option, you can just instate a "No Stressing The GM" rule--if someone tries to prank the GM, they lose a level. ;D
Since when is a healthy venting on the forums considered the least bit passive aggressive? I think you should look up the definition of the term.Due to certain recent threads involving other posters, a trend has started where any thread posted here is labeled "passive aggressive".
It's an invalid label. This isn't some effort to tick off others on the forums. The OP is asking for advice.
Because it's another one of your hypotheticals and didn't really happen?If it didn't happen, how is it passive aggressive?
I've noticed you have a habit of going to threads and accusing the OPs of being trolls/liars without the least shred of evidence. It's kind of annoying, and I'm sure it offends the OPs.
RD has stated outright many of his threads are hypotheticals. He also refuses to label those that are, saying " it's obvious". To me, it's obvious this is one of his hypotheticals. Mind you, RD's stuff is often entertaining, but people shouldn't get het up about a hypothetical.
And, when you get a brand new poster who as his only post, comes up with one of the standard highly debated memes here, like paladins vs goblin babies, then' yes, the odds are very very good they are a troll. The boards here have benn hit with a lot of these recently.
So they did it twice do you....there is a old saying 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.'
In other words don't fall for it again.
Never heard that one.
I appreciate this link tremendously.
Back on topic, I think the best idea would be to either talk to them directly about who irritating it is, or pull the same trick on them (email other players saying X is not longer playing) and see how he takes it.
EDIT: I wouldn't consider that being passive-aggressive because you're responding to their behavior with the exact same treatment they give you.