[Raging Swan Press] Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises is Crap (Or Not)


Product Discussion

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Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

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Late last week, some accusations surfaced on the net about Raging Swan Press and the quality and accuracy of some of the reviews we’ve been lucky enough to garner. (My initial reply is here). Furthermore, the poster suggested that one or more reviewers were “my reviewers” and that they were being unduly generous in their assessments. There is absolutely no truth to the suggestion that Raging Swan Press unduly or inappropriately influences any of the people kind enough to review its products.

The poster went on to describe Raging Swan’s products as “poorly presented, limited value for money and of short-term appeal” and singled out Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises in particular. I don’t have a problem with the poster having that view (although I disagree with it); sadly Raging Swan Press products are not perfect and they are not for everyone.

I am, however, very proud of the quality of product Raging Swan Press produces. My heroic band of crack freelance adventurers do a tremendous job creating loads of awesome material. I believe Raging Swan Press produces great material at an affordable price.

So, with that in mind you’ll probably be surprised to hear me saying, “Don’t buy Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises.” That’s right, I don’t want you to buy it. Instead, I’ve reduced its price to $0 so it is now a free download. It is available wherever you would normally find Raging Swan’s products: d20 PFSRD, e23, OBS (where it is already free) and Paizo. Note, though, the price may not change at some sites until tomorrow as not all are fully automated. I’ve also added it to Raging Swan’s website as a free download.

Wherever you get it from, it’s yours to keep with my compliments. And (being cheeky) if you do download it I would love to get a review from you telling me what you did and didn’t like about the supplement.

Finally, remember that if you’ve already purchased Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises and think it’s crap, Raging Swan offers a full Money Back Guarantee on all its products. I will happily provide you with a full refund or offer you an alternate PDF of the same value as an exchange.

So remember, don’t buy Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises – it might or might not be crap but it is free!

The Exchange

I thoroughly respect the stance you are taking in this matter and your willingness to lose revenue in exchange for having a good name in the industry.
I am going to download this and I will give a review of it within a couple days. Also because of your full-disclosure of the situation and desire to amend it, I want you to know that, dependent on my liking the Portcullis material, I plan to really look into other Raging Swan products.
Thank you.


I am really enjoying your dressing line (dungeon, urban, and wilderness) and will continue to buy them.
In my opinion though you're kind of feeding the troll, which is your right to do. I know I generally look at the majority of reviews when looking to buy a product and their overall rating, before deciding instead of just one.
Just my 2 cents.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Wow, just wow. There will always be a-holes. You've stated your case, just move on.

The proof is in the puddin' RS has been producing high-quality, and highly-useable products since its inception, regardless of whatever reviewers are saying (good or bad).

I would happily pay for Portcullises, and I appreciate the offer.

Keep up the great work Creighton!


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Has no one every read Megan's review policy.

Liberty's Edge

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I stand by Raging Swan's commitment to quality 100% (and not just the stuff I've done for them ;)

I think the issue here is that the other person is not just making a comment, he really is attacking Raging Swan simply because his own product got 4 stars instead of 5. He is also attacking the reviewer, who, in my opinion at least, has quite a good reputation and gave that person's product a perfectly fair review.

Bottom line for me is this - everyone is entitled to express and opinion. What that guy is doing goes WAY beyong that. Compare that guy's approach to Raging Swan's an decide for yourself who is the classier company.

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

Thanks very much for the kind words, chaps! It's jolly decent of you. As some of you may know, I'm jolly proud of the quality of Raging Swan products - it's a very personal thing for me as Raging Swan is my baby and I'm very passionate about it.

RPG Superstar 2012

Wow, and here I thought the product in question got a lower-than-4-star rating.

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

Fake Healer wrote:

I thoroughly respect the stance you are taking in this matter and your willingness to lose revenue in exchange for having a good name in the industry.

I am going to download this and I will give a review of it within a couple days. Also because of your full-disclosure of the situation and desire to amend it, I want you to know that, dependent on my liking the Portcullis material, I plan to really look into other Raging Swan products.
Thank you.

I'm not that fussed about losing revenue when you stack that up against the possible damage to my/Raging Swan's reputation. The suggestion I was paying for or somehow influencing reviews was something I couldn't ignore.

Thanks for the offer of looking into Raging Swan's other products. If sourcebooks is more your thing, The Lonely Coast is also free (and was the second product I ever released) and is loaded with flavour.


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I know how powerless one can feel in the face of an attack on character. Try not to stress about some ill-informed person with time to kill on the Internet - there's rather a lot of us, unfortunately. Pretty obviously he's taking a bad review rather too seriously (and is on some crusade against black and white art, apparently).

Fwiw, your response to the whole thing has boosted your reputation and standing in the industry as far as I'm concerned. :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Megan does a lot of reviews for my products as well, and I've never garnered less than a 4-star review from her (and I usually earn a 5). I guess she's on my payroll, too? *rolls eyes*

Megan Robertson is indeed an english teacher, and I'm quite positive that she's no more in cahoots with Raging Swan Press than I am. As a fellow publisher, I'm sorry that you had this experience, Creighton. Props on your classy response. I'll be picking up my free copy of Portcullises right now!

Raging Swan rocks.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

Liberty's Edge

Ok. . . Wow. . .

First, let me say there are reviewers I trust and reviewers I don't. Meg is in the latter group. I don't like her style and quite frankly think giving everyone 4 and 5 star ratings "because she doesn't want people to only be concerned with the score" is dishonest. However, that said, thinking she is a bad reviewer and thinking her reviewing style is dishonest is a long way away from believing that she is actually biased in any way, and specifically based on company and it would take much more than a rant by someone (whom I have never heard of) who got his feelings hurt by a 4 star rating on one of his products to convince me.

If someone is biased towards or away from a product, it is much more likely to be the person who put work into the product, rather than the person whose work is critiquing the product. People are inherently biased in their own favor. That's life.

Secondly, I have bought several Raging Swan products, I have always found your products to be top notch. Sometimes products really do deserve a 5 star rating, and they get those 5 star ratings, even if it is from someone who isn't (in my opinion at least) a 5 star reviewer. Even a broken clock and all that.

Third, all the reviews that the person in the rant says were removed, are still there. His product has a 4.5 star rating. I can only guess at the reasoning for this, but none of my guesses reflect well on him.


The way someone handles a bad review or a dislike of their work speaks volumes. Raging Swan's handling here is classy, calm, and very professional, especially in contrast to the other.

Keep it up.

From what I've seen, Megan's reviews are based on first impressions. That's useful, but I value the in-depth reviews higher.


Creighton,

I just wanted to express my support here.

It seems that the gentleman from Thisle received what he considered a poor review of a product into which he had put a good deal of work and effort. It happens, and when it happens, it hurts. However, rather than taking issue with the reviewer, or the methodology, or any other more valid targets, he attacked the recipient of the better reviews.

You have responded with dignity and class, and (similarly to Fake Healer's response) I plan to not only continue to buy Raging Swan product, but also to put up my first reviews here. (I haven't done so already because, frankly, Endzeitgeist is intimidating; I think he reviews everything.)

Dark Archive

Wow That is extreme sour grapes on behalf of that Thistle character (The fact he wont even let you respond to his accusations is paricularly nasty if you ask me.)

Dark Archive

Mr Thistle has more here

http://thistlegames.com/thistle/2013/04/28/should-game-reviewers-work-to-sh ort-codes-of-practice/

Critira for game reviews? Seriously? Someone should explain to the gentelman that reviews are as much personal opinion than anything else.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Wow...

Well, the Dungeon Dressing line is cracking good. Except for Doors. That one's unfortunate.

Seriously, the amount of creativity it takes to make those little pdfs is pretty enormous. They aren't crap -(though a Dungeon Dressing: Dungeon Muck entry might be pretty amusing).

I'm sorry, Creighton, that this other guy is being so huffy about something you don't control.


Reviews are opinion, not a tick sheet. You don't have to agree with the opinion. It sounds a little like he didn't agree with her opinion (You don't like my writing? I've got nothing that needs changing, how dare you), and is trying to discredit it. I can understand the desire to refute a review that upsets you, but all this palaver of trying to prove his view the right one makes me less inclined to look at his work the more he says.

I also don't see why black and white illustrations is so much 'worse' , or why something should be automatically higher quality just because the pages are in colour. This seems to be one of his biggest complaints and just plain confuses me.

Liberty's Edge

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I happen to LOVE really good black and white illustrations!


Exactly - to me colour vs. b/w is a matter of taste and art style, not quality.


Wow and ZOMG Creighton, how much money, time and effort did it take to set this Thistle gig up? Great gag including all those fancy letters after your fictional game-company colored-art-content competitor's name. Particularly refreshing was creating him to seem like he has waaaaay too much time, no appreciable skin (or thickness thereof) and at least one mental aberration - an inability to see a non-5 star review as not the end of the world.

Heh. Such a great gimmick. So tell us, when did you set this all up? ;p

(seriously though - amazing example of the not-so-rich tapestry of life as exemplified by yon internette. My favorite bit is this from your reply:

Crrighton Broadhurst wrote:
Finally, I note that you are also in the UK (I'm based in Torquay). Perhaps we can meet up at a convention some time and discuss this over a beer!

Do let us know if that chat ever happens...)


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Creighton Broadhurst wrote:
Finally, I note that you are also in the UK (I'm based in Torquay). Perhaps we can meet up at a convention some time and discuss this over a beer!

Do let us know if that chat ever happens...)

One gets the impression the other guy is just a little too invested in the whole "I'm being persecuted - how will I ever receive my richly deserved Ennie now?" thing to actually sit down and talk about it - the fact the 'opening salvo' was via blog doesn't augur well. (And makes the whole deletion and "Why didn't you email me first?" response to Raging Swan's rebuttal somewhat laughable.

I know these thing can make you feel helpless, Creighton. But as a somewhat neutral outsider (I'd only vaguely heard of you and had never heard of him before this) let me say that the whole exchange reflects far more poorly on him than on you.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My Adventuring XYZ line has black and white interiors as a deliberate choice.


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Mr. Creighton. I currently have 26 of your products. I have found them all to be enjoyable although not all of them are five star worthy. (IMHO of course) I don't post much in general, (lurker mostly) so real review write ups would be more than I am willing to do right now.

Some of those were free of course, and most of them were obtained on sale. However, every one of them was worth the price I paid for it. Including the ones I purchased at full price. I keep track of your products and will continue to do so. I like them quite a bit.

So the final score here so far is you 26 (27 after I DL portcullis) and the other gentleman 0. 27-0 is a sound thrashing sir, regardless of the sport. Keep up the good work.

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

Just a quick note to thank you all for the kind words. I much appreciate them. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that Raging Swan is well regarded.

It is hard to not get angry and upset when someone publicly accuses you of doing something like review rigging. I get that Raging Swan's stuff is not for everyone - that's fine - but to suggest I would do anything illegal was rather below the belt.

Hopefully my position is rather clear, now!


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Two thumbs up for your classy response, Creighton! It's hard to stay calm and friendly when one's character and integrity are questioned. I've been there, more than once.

I have called out sockpuppet reviewers before, but Megan is definitely not one - and I for my part am grateful for every review she (or any other person on the boards I trust) posts.

For my part: I get why many reviewers only post "good" reviews - they're faster to write, you don't have to defend a case, you don't have to point out flaws in math, balancing, presentation etc. AND people actually thank you for it.

Bad reviews are more work,unfulfilling to write, frustrating and make you feel like a bastard either way - if you ripped a product asunder and the author responds with kindness, you feel bad. If they attack you in response, you're angry. Oh, and perhaps they force you to articulate a disappointment with a pdf you wanted to like, which is also not too much fun. It's a classic Catch 22.

Perhaps I'm not enough of a troll; I don't get off of bad reviews, but I consider them a necessary evil.

That being said, writing essentially score-less reviews and adding a rating is a valid approach and since it works for Megan and allows for a fluid assessment of content not tied to a regular verdict.

You're as popular as you are because your products are good - it's that easy. I don't like all your pdfs, but I enjoy the vast majority and more often than not, RSP-products rank among the finest out there.

So take that for what it's worth. I didn't even know Thistle Games existed before, but his mentioning of my name (including wrong information) makes me think I might be next up on his anti-reviewer's-list.

Oh - and readerbreeder - I'm not reviewing everything, just almost everything /jk and the more, the merrier!

Cheers!

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

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Readerbreeder wrote:

Creighton,

I just wanted to express my support here.

It seems that the gentleman from Thisle received what he considered a poor review of a product into which he had put a good deal of work and effort. It happens, and when it happens, it hurts. However, rather than taking issue with the reviewer, or the methodology, or any other more valid targets, he attacked the recipient of the better reviews.

You have responded with dignity and class, and (similarly to Fake Healer's response) I plan to not only continue to buy Raging Swan product, but also to put up my first reviews here. (I haven't done so already because, frankly, Endzeitgeist is intimidating; I think he reviews everything.)

I'd be delighted to read a review or two (or three)from you Readerbreeder. We can't let Endzeitgeist have it all his own way! Anything that helps me improve Raging Swan's products is welcome.

Scarab Sages

To start, I've been a big fan of Raging Swan products (and just had 4 print products shipped out last week). This being said, I must disagree with Endzeitgeist's statement. The classy way to handle things would have been to post about this product's availability with a link back to the RS site, where Creighton could have posted what information he wanted to regarding this problem. This was not an issue on Paizo, yet Creighton opted to introduce the fight over here.

The most troubling thing here that doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves is the whole business with the featured reviewer on OBS. I've been getting their emails for years, and I am accustomed to seeing only 4 or 5 star reviews from this specific person to such a degree that I have always discounted all reviews from her as shill reviews (my opinion).

I've read the claim that the reviewer herself has the position of only giving out "good" reviews in an attempt to make it more likely that people read her reviews. You can handle reviews how you want to on your blog site. When you are reviewing for a commercial site, it is inappropriate and potentially unethical to do this. It gives the *impression* of improper behavior - in exchange for giving free PDFs for review, you get positive reviews in return. It's really up to OBS to make this determination of what is actually happening, and they ought to publicly address this - good or bad.

The Exchange

I bet you were hopping mad, Creighton! This is such an odd way to make people want to buy his new shiny product. He has made a name for himself, temporarily, but I'd predict that in a few months time this will all be forgotten - just like his product.

For myself, as one of your writers (in my own small way) I remember the way Villainous Pirates was reviewed, criticised and you re-wrote parts of it, all in the space of a day or two.

No sour grapes then just an attempt to make a better product.

Cheers

Liberty's Edge

Folks will always have something poor to say, but as expected, Creighton, you responded the way you run RS, with thought and class. I happened to write a few reviews for RS that in my opinion deserved 5 stars, an apparent criminal offense.

I’m not a big fan of the idea of PDF publishers in general because you can’t tell at a glance who’s really taking it with a passion and who’s just sitting around in their underwear at a computer claiming to be a ‘publisher’. However, since the Pathfinder RPG came out, I’d say 5 PDF companies (out of nearly 3 dozen?) managed to score some of my dollars after very careful consideration. Raging Swan was one of them.

When I wrote some reviews for products I really had a need to get my opinion out on came to Creighton’s attention he asked if I’d like to review some of his stuff. He didn’t know I already had a handful of RS items! Instead of slobbering all over the keyboard, I picked a very small handful of items from his selection I knew I’d use or find immediate use for. Is it any surprise then that they garnered high praise? It just so happened they delivered what they promised with a writing style and approach that reminded me of reading stuff back in the old days of 1e. I used them at my table and they were of great help, thus the ratings.

Did I start getting worried it would look like I was somehow paid off? No, as I said I already had some of RS’s offerings. I intend to purchase some more.

Many on this thread have stated similar responses that I agree with so to sum up: they were items I knew I’d immediately enjoy or use, and it was my opinion they deserved recognition. A 5 star review of a 10 page PDF product does not mean it’s the same value as the Tome of Horrors Complete or something, but that’s an animal of a different color.

When I feel many PDF companies are just spitting stuff out I thoroughly enjoy my RS purchases and review material and use them each week in some capacity. Creighton is doing darn good gaming work.

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

davrion wrote:

To start, I've been a big fan of Raging Swan products (and just had 4 print products shipped out last week). This being said, I must disagree with Endzeitgeist's statement. The classy way to handle things would have been to post about this product's availability with a link back to the RS site, where Creighton could have posted what information he wanted to regarding this problem. This was not an issue on Paizo, yet Creighton opted to introduce the fight over here.

The most troubling thing here that doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves is the whole business with the featured reviewer on OBS. I've been getting their emails for years, and I am accustomed to seeing only 4 or 5 star reviews from this specific person to such a degree that I have always discounted all reviews from her as shill reviews (my opinion).

I've read the claim that the reviewer herself has the position of only giving out "good" reviews in an attempt to make it more likely that people read her reviews. You can handle reviews how you want to on your blog site. When you are reviewing for a commercial site, it is inappropriate and potentially unethical to do this. It gives the *impression* of improper behavior - in exchange for giving free PDFs for review, you get positive reviews in return. It's really up to OBS to make this determination of what is actually happening, and they ought to publicly address this - good or bad.

Sorry the way I handled it didn't work for you, Davrion. I'd grown frustrated with him deleting my posts from his blog (where he made the original accusations). I really didn't want people to think I was dodging the issue - Raging Swan's reputation to me is paramount and so I posted here.

Thanks for the great order. I hope you like the books and they make your game more fun!

Webstore Gninja Minion

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Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises is now free on Paizo.com.


Way to go Creighton!


Nicely done, sir.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I served as an ENnies judge for 2 years (2010, 2011) and served with Megan in 2010. She and I didn't always see eye-to-eye, but I can say that she is a top-notch reviewer and an excellent judge. I have full confidence in her judgement.

Additionally, this whole think smacks heavily of sour grapes.

-Skeld

Sovereign Court

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I feel kind of sorry for that guy.

He doesn't seem to understand how easy it is to just apologise and move on.

Instead he's moved some goalposts around from
A: This reviewer is deliberately corrupt. Creighton Broadhurst is probably gaming the system.
to
B: Reviewers should have to sign up to some kind of code.

His style is scary too... writing in a way that implies that Creighton is dodging some kind of issue because 'he won't come out and back a reviewers code like he should!'

Incidentally, a reviewers code is a terrible idea.

The Exchange

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Finished reading, re-reading critically and absorbing the info in this PDF. I posted a review on Paizo here and, not getting too specific in this thread, I gave it 5 stars.
The whole point of my review is that this is a great time saver and a product that really gets the creative juices flowing.
I am sad that Raging Swan had to make this into a free product, because it is well worth the $2, but I am also glad that they did because now I have become a fan and will be checking out much more of their products.
I am a big fan of products that help me look more creative at the head of the table.


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Downloaded and read. I'm really liking it. Later I will post a review.

If this Thistle fellow did the same, I'd gladly review one of his products, not as a comparison, but rather on its own merits. Right now, he seems a bit...prickly.

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

Shadowborn wrote:
Downloaded and read. I'm really liking it. Later I will post a review.

Thanks for the kind words, Shadowborn. I look forward to reading your remarks.


There we go. Not the review you need, but the one you deserve. [/batman]

And thank you again for your work.

The Exchange

Shadowborn wrote:

Downloaded and read. I'm really liking it. Later I will post a review.

If this Thistle fellow did the same, I'd gladly review one of his products, not as a comparison, but rather on its own merits. Right now, he seems a bit...prickly.

*thumbs up*

Sovereign Court Publisher, Raging Swan Press

Shadowborn wrote:

There we go. Not the review you need, but the one you deserve. [/batman]

And thank you again for your work.

Thank you Shadowborn. Interestingly, one of the things to come out of several of the reviews is that I have "developmental opportunities" at the front of my products. The "front matter" doesn't really seem to be working for me, so I'll be taking a look at that in the future.


Quite welcome.

The good thing about pdf format is that you can make those sorts of changes and put them out to the public immediately, rather than having to wait for a second printing with paper products.


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I just posted this on Thistle's blog. Probably will get cut. I just wanted you to know Creighton, that I will be buying at least one of your products because I feel the way you handled this was extremely professional. You didn't stoop to insulting the hard work or challenge the ethics of a competitor who probably "had it coming.". Thank you for being the grow up here.

"Not sure this will do any good, but here goes… I haven’t looked
at or reviewed any of your or Raging Swan’s material, so I can’t
speak to the quality of the products, but the fact that you would
accuse a competitor of unethical business practices in an open
forum and then become upset that said competitor would respond in
an open forum does not speak well of your business practices. In
addition, you also besmirched the quality of a competitor’s
products in an open forum. You stated that you would not post RS’
response as it felt like it was a glorified advert, but you have
taken the opportunity to show your layout and art in comparison to
theirs in order to show that your products are better. Feels a bit
like the old “Pepsi Challenge” adverts on TV. I honestly don’t have
a clue whether you have a legitimate gripe, but the way you
approached this makes me not want to spend money on your products.
You managed to alienate myself as a potential customer and, I would
bet, quite a few other people as well. This is sad, because I did
like the little bit I saw of your layout and art. I do spend a fair
amount of money on 3rd party products and might be missing out on
something good, but I will not spend money for a product from
someone I do not respect, and, right now, I am having a hard time
finding anything to respect about your participation in this
situation."

Liberty's Edge

Wow, what a great post. Hopefully it will cause him to take a step back and think about the poor way he's handled this ... but I kind of doubt it.

Oh, and if you do plan on picking up a Raging Swan product in the near future, might I suggest a rather sizable aquatic adventure coming out next month ;)

Dark Archive

I could be wrong but it seems he may have deleated all those blog posts of his. I'm thinking the complaint he put in has been regected. (That or he has realised what a bad idea this was.

Liberty's Edge

Deleted indeed. It is also worth noting that the reviews he said got removed from drive thru are still there, including Megans.


Maybe I should send him a thank you note for enabling me to get a free Raging Swan product!


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

On April 5th of this year, I wrote my first review (For Gygax Magazine #1). Afterword, I got a personal message from Creighton Broadhurst saying that he liked my review style and asked if I would be interested in reviewing some material from Raging Swan Press. I replied that I already owned some PDFs of his company and would review them. He thanked me in advance.

Creighton, you had no idea whether I would give you positive reviews or not. You didn't know whether I even liked the products I had from your company. But you encouraged me anyway. They were in the end positive reviews.* But they could just have easily been bad. Your encouragement led me to try reviewing something larger: Razor Coast. Without that encouragement, I don't think I would have even tried.

I have no idea how many reviews I will do or what they will consist of, but I do know that I will be doing more and that it is almost entirely due to your encouragement. I am stunned that anyone would question your professionalism or the high quality of the products you produce. This to me reeks of someone mistaking fancy artwork and layout for quality material. The products I have had from Raging Swan are of top notch quality and are exactly what is advertised. You should be very proud of this.

I intend to download Dungeon Dressing: Portcullises and I will see if I can get a review out sometime this weekend. This is a product I had no real initial interest in, so thank you for offering this up as an example of your work. I may not have reviewed it otherwise.

Thank you again for the encouragement, Creighton. It meant a lot.

Geoff

*I will readily admit that all of my paltry six reviews so far have been fairly positive; I have been reviewing material I enjoy, admire, and have used or intend to use. This tends to put a four or five-star rating in the likely category. I have some things that have garnered a three-star review, but I'm terribly busy and haven't had time to do those reviews yet.

Contributor

Huh. I didn't hear about this happening.

I personally think its sort of funny given my own relationship with Raging Swan Press. Every now and then Creighton gives me a PDF for free so I'll review it, and despite his kind heart I feel like I'm often positively BRUTAL to his company's products. I guess I'm secretly on the Raging Swan payroll, listed as, "Company Self-Demoralizer." Considering that Creighton keeps giving me stuff to review, sometimes I wonder if he's masochistic or something!

/endsarcasm

* Note: My experience was almost identical to Feros's (one post up). Its not so much that Creighton offered me a product free of cost; rather, Creighton offered out a hand (PUNS!) that plainly said, "I want to hear what you have to say, good or bad." That is a rarity in today's day and age, and I'll always respect Creighton for that.

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