Hello Forums,
I for one quite liked the idea of a 15 level prestige class (or 12, or 14, more than 10). Class levels and abilities, to me and some of my friends, help define the character's identity as a whole. Some prestige classes even seem to call for 15 levels like the Mystic Theurge or Assassin, but any of the core prestige classes (and many of the others) could be expanded.
This could be done with the upper level guide book, or on its own, because believe it or not people are playing to 20th level. My group specifically have gotten to 20th twice now.
So I kindly ask Paizo to reconsider this for pathfinder.
Thank you,
-Hexen
As much as I hate it when people say this, that's really what an archetype is for. I truly believe that most archetypes should be prestige classes. I think that locking someone into a particular core class to gain a mechanical sub-option restricts player choices. With a prestige class you are flexible to take as much or little as you chose, when you chose. An archetype relegates you to following a particular path from day one.
That said I think that archetypes have their place, are a cool addition to the game, and provide interesting options for players. In the case of a prestige class that would go on for 15 levels you have really entered that realm of a "single path" that would more appropriately be represented by an archetype.
As much as I hate it when people say this, that's really what an archetype is for. I truly believe that most archetypes should be prestige classes. I think that locking someone into a particular core class to gain a mechanical sub-option restricts player choices. With a prestige class you are flexible to take as much or little as you chose, when you chose. An archetype relegates you to following a particular path from day one.
That said I think that archetypes have their place, are a cool addition to the game, and provide interesting options for players. In the case of a prestige class that would go on for 15 levels you have really entered that realm of a "single path" that would more appropriately be represented by an archetype.
I disagree. Things like the two prestige classes I mentioned could not be done well as archetypes/feat/etc... You have prestige classes to support things like, class combinations and alignment restricted specialties, especially where you need some-sort of in-game action to qualify (Like the assassin) or if it is something tied to the specific campaign or order like the hell knight. We actually have a LOT of new prestige classes that have been printed by Paizo if you look into the Paths of Prestige book.
I got really excited about Path of Prestige because I am a huge fan on that mechanic. I was sorely disappointed. sorely. That book should have been released in the GM supplements line rather than the player supplements line as most of them are suitable only for NPC's and the rest are terrible.
I understand your argument for Mystic Theurge. Problem there would be allowing access to 9th level divine and arcane spells at 20 is way over powered.
I understand your argument for Mystic Theurge. Problem there would be allowing access to 9th level divine and arcane spells at 20 is way over powered.
With what is lost, no, not really IMHO.
Assuming "earliest possible entry" (Cleric/Druid 3rd, Wizard 3rd), you start Mystic Theurge as a 7th level character. At character levels 8/MT 2nd (3rd level spells), 10/MT 4 (4th level spells), 12/MT 6 (5th level spells), 14/MT 8 (6th level spells), 16/MT 10 (7th level spells), 18/MT 12 (8th level spells; combined spells 6th) and 20th/MT 14 (9th level spells; combined spells 7th). You have 1 or 2 9th level spells for each class per day. You are MAD in addition, so your bonus spells/day and spell DCs lag behind.
Yes, you can cast let's say 2/day/class 9th level spells. Total #/day is on par or below the 20th level #/day of a cleric, druid or wizard. This IS your 20th level capstone ability. I see it as fair enough.
If you are avoiding MAD syndrome, you're most likely going into Mystic Theurge as Oracle 4/Sorcerer 4, capping you at Mystic Theurge 12 at 20th. (8th level spells, combined spells 6th). These chaps *never* get access to 9th level spells.
Also, prestige class levels are ineligible for favored class options, which over the career of the PC hurts. PrC's don't give anything that really makes up for this loss. Those extra skill ranks matter.
Since Savage Tide I've more often than not had a Mystic Theurge advancing past 10th at the table. The 3 or 4 level "lag" on spell access is felt the entire time. The complete freeze on the class features and loss of favored class options is also keenly felt.
Archetypes have their uses ... but so do taking certain PrC's past 10th - or leaving them as originally presented as a 15 level PrC - Hellknight, I'm looking at you kid.
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I got really excited about Path of Prestige because I am a huge fan on that mechanic. I was sorely disappointed. sorely. That book should have been released in the GM supplements line rather than the player supplements line as most of them are suitable only for NPC's and the rest are terrible.
I understand your argument for Mystic Theurge. Problem there would be allowing access to 9th level divine and arcane spells at 20 is way over powered.
Paths of Prestige is a campaign setting book, which is primarially a GM line...
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Me, I'd rather see PrC's at five, three, or one level only... of course, I also think that their primary entry requirement should be fame, not some carefully constructed series of requirements that makes you jump through several classes to get there as quickly as possible.
Paths of Prestige is a campaign setting book, which is primarially a GM line...I got really excited about Path of Prestige because I am a huge fan on that mechanic. I was sorely disappointed. sorely. That book should have been released in the GM supplements line rather than the player supplements line as most of them are suitable only for NPC's and the rest are terrible.
I understand your argument for Mystic Theurge. Problem there would be allowing access to 9th level divine and arcane spells at 20 is way over powered.
Good point, I should have said that instead of sending the book to the printer that they should have sent it to the trash can. Worst money I spent on an RPG book in years.
I think Paizo staff have already stated that they consider Prestige Class to be a way to represent specific members of Golarion organisation. And Path of Prestige has been built this way. It may be not your cup of tea though.
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Personally, our group loves Paths of Prestige. Not all of them are worthy of consideration or interest, but the same can definitely be said for the majority of 3.5 PrCs as well.
One point I would bring up is that in pathfinder, the loss of class abilities plus favored class is pretty big, so I really wish they would consider making class+prc levels stack for more of the PrCs than they do.