Question about Demoniac...and his summoned Succubus


Advice

Dark Archive

I have a player that is playing a Demoniac prestige class and he has reached the level where he can begin to summon various types of demons to the prime material plane.

He desires to summon a succubus and have her bestow him with a +2 to constitution using the "profane gift" ability.

Would this be a proper usage of the power to summon and what would be the implications of summoning a succubus to the PMP for a few rounds, receive the profane gift, and then send her back to the abyss.

Is this a tactic that should work without any hitches to bestow a profane gift to each member of the party? Is the succubus automatically compelled to bestow this gift on the summoners whims? What if a different demoniac summons the succubus in a different location and requires the same? Is there a % to roll to see the odds of that happening daily?

I can see the profane gift ability being flavorful when using the succubus as an NPC or as a monster that is designed to ingratiate a potential victim into serving the succubus, but as a method for increasing ability scores I don't see that as a particularly viable way to go about it.

What are your thoughts?


The hitch is that they continually send you messages(and use their suggestion spell with it!) and tempt you towards CE behavior. They can remove the boon at any time too, so if they decide they don't like you they may just remove the boon(which deals 2D6 Charisma drain! Enough to make many characters comatose!). You also have to allow an energy draining CE creature to touch you for a full round.

Its flavorful, but if he abuses it he's likely to get chewed up by his own boon, along with anyone else who took it. I'm not totally for giving the whole party a boon that stacks with just about anything to a choice stat myself.

Silver Crusade

"When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire." CRB p. 210.

Yes, its a supernatural ability, not a spell, but I wouldn't allow a simple Summon Monster spell to result in increased ability scores.


Could it work? Sure.

The problem is there isn't really any reason for the succubus to maintain it. All the sudden the demonaic is going to get hit for 2d4 CHA damage (no save) at some point in the future. Also while it is maintained they can be subject to suggestions randomly.


Warrant wrote:

I have a player that is playing a Demoniac prestige class and he has reached the level where he can begin to summon various types of demons to the prime material plane.

He desires to summon a succubus and have her bestow him with a +2 to constitution using the "profane gift" ability.

Would this be a proper usage of the power to summon and what would be the implications of summoning a succubus to the PMP for a few rounds, receive the profane gift, and then send her back to the abyss.

LOL I wish a player would try this in my game. He better be very VERY careful in how he pulls it off. Here is why.

I assume the summoning will be through Summon Monster. Using this you get the service of a random Succubus without the knowledge of her "True Name" Without her true name you have zero power over her after the summons is over. While it is active you can compel her to use her abilities that don't involve planar travel or summoning other creatures... so yes he could compel her to use her profane gift. Now lets look at that ability.

Pathfinder OGC wrote:

Profane Gift (Su)

Once per day as a full-round action, a succubus may grant a profane gift to a willing humanoid creature by touching it for 1 full round. The target gains a +2 profane bonus to an ability score of his choice. A single creature may have no more than one profane gift from a succubus at a time. As long as the profane gift persists, the succubus can communicate telepathically with the target across any distance (and may use her suggestion spell-like ability through it). A profane gift is removed by dispel evil or dispel chaos. The succubus can remove it as well as a free action (causing 2d6 Charisma drain to the victim, no save).

So you get the +2 Con. You dismiss her. Now... Now you have a very evil and spiteful demon that can telepathically whisper to you AND use SUGGESTION on you AT WILL whenever she wants. You will be her play toy. You will be very very screwed... until she gets bored or your dead. Either way she can remove her gift any time she see's fit and you take 2d6 Charisma drain with no save.

Warrant wrote:
Is this a tactic that should work without any hitches to bestow a profane gift to each member of the party? Is the succubus automatically compelled to bestow this gift on the summoners whims?

So yes it will work. No it does not come without hitches lol. It will bite him hard if the DM plays it correctly.

Warrant wrote:
What if a different demoniac summons the succubus in a different location and requires the same? Is there a % to roll to see the odds of that happening daily?

No there is no roll. The succubus can bestow her gift to as many people as she wants... Once a day.

Warrant wrote:

I can see the profane gift ability being flavorful when using the succubus as an NPC or as a monster that is designed to ingratiate a potential victim into serving the succubus, but as a method for increasing ability scores I don't see that as a particularly viable way to go about it.

What are your thoughts?

As stated... no it is not viable. There is only ONE way you can really get the gift without a hitch. You have to use the spell Binding. Here is a sample guide to Binding a Succubus from Treantmonk's old Malconvoker guide. Its 3.5 but most of it is still viable for binding a demon.

Binding the Succubus: Treantmonk's guide: wrote:

So you want to bind a Succubus, but the 26 CHA scares you? Here's what you do (lets assume you are a conjurer with a 10 CHA):

You are at least 8th level - so pony up the 4,500 and get a circlet of persuasion.
Cast Magic Circle against evil. Use Spellcraft to fortify it.
Cast Binding - call the Succubus.

Cast a Geas on her first thing. "Drink a glass of water from the pitcher over there." Point to a pitcher outside the circle. Wait 4 days.

Cast Eagle's splendor before you return.

Now hit her with Bestow Curse. Her saves are currently at -8 (total will save -1). As long as you peirce SR you are golden (if not - cast again!). Suddenly her saves/checks are at -12

Now hit her with Cause Fear. Now she's frightened (or shaken if by some miracle she saves). Her ability checks are now at -14

Time to propose a deal. No reason to make it lovely. Ask her to serve you for the remainder of the spell - to follow all your commands, in both word and intent, to never take action that could harm you, and to give you her true name. - and she will be released at the end of the spell. This is a crappy deal for her - so you get no bonus to negotiation.

Her negotiate modifier: -6
Your negotiate modifier: +5

You should win.

If there's any doubt - go ahead and pony up 3000 gp for a Moment of Prescience scroll. It's a one shot deal - but the additional +16 to your roll makes this a sure thing.

Once she agrees -drop the cause fear, the curse, and the circle (so she can have her drink of water). She's back to normal.

Now you give her the warning. "I know your true name now - if you ever screw me over - during the duration of the spell, or afterwards - I'll use it to summon you again. I'll also cast again and summon an IMP. I'll give the imp this deal - "do whatever you want to this succubus for the duration of the spell - and I expect nothing in return.", you'll be defensless in one of those circles you were just in, but I'll let him out of his, I expect the Imp will take the deal - I get the impression they have LOADS of built up hostility."

As you can see this will give you her True name. Then you can truly screw her if she takes away her gift or uses her suggestion power. This is the only viable way and its pretty hard. If a player went to this length for a +2 to a stat... I would allow it. Otherwise I would screw the holy heck out of him for trying without preparing.


Why would she want water? They don't eat or drink... If anything you just bore her and make her like you less. Hostile is not very negotiable, and they always seemed like the evil plotting type.

Personally, I'd love to roleplay someone with commentary from a succubus. That just sounds fun. Especially if it benefits both of you consistently.


MrSin wrote:

Why would she want water? They don't eat or drink... If anything you just bore her and make her like you less. Hostile is not very negotiable, and they always seemed like the evil plotting type.

Personally, I'd love to roleplay someone with commentary from a succubus. That just sounds fun. Especially if it benefits both of you consistently.

Why do I care if she wants water or not? Its a Geas. She is compelled to drink the water. If the subject is prevented from obeying the geas/quest for 24 hours, it takes a -3 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -3 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -12. That is the point. She can't leave the circle and therefore cant complete the Geas lowering her stats and her saves.

It can be anything. "Go lick the wall" can work just as well. She cant leave the circle so she can't lick the wall. Get it?


Ahh, I see. I missed that it was the Geas you gave her. That's a pretty brutal mess. Not at all what the OP's player is doing.


MrSin wrote:
Ahh, I see. I missed that it was the Geas you gave her. That's a pretty brutal mess. Not at all what the OP's player is doing.

No he isn't lol and I think we have the same idea as to how it would play out. She would use suggestion to screw him until she got bored and then drop the no save 2d6 CHA drain on him for being dumb for trying to pull a fast one on an immortal ancient being of evil that was deceiving beings of immense power when his great great grandmother was still in a cradle.

You don't make deals with demons/devils unless you hold all the cards... and cheat for good measure... even then its risky.

Dark Archive

Some very good advice. I think I'll talk to the player and basically tell him:

"Yes, you can technically force the demon to profane gift you, but I'm going to role-play that succubus as CE and she will suggest things to you constantly until she is bored and decides to drop the profane gift, thereby dropping your CHA"

Since he is a demoniac with high knowledge:Planes, shall I inform him that he would have absolutely zero power over the succubus unless he can learn her true name, and possibly would never be able to summon the profane gift-er again?

I mean I can empathize with the player that got this new ability and thinks "hey, I can totally do something new and cool!" but at the same time I don't want to just screw him over with a permanent CHA drain.

Perhaps I could meet somewhere in the middle. Allow him to gain the boon once or twice for a temporary time, while dropping the CHA for a temporary time.

My end goal is so the player can have fun, but I don't want him to turn into a succubus profane-gift generating font.


The more people in the group who take it the more likely it is they all get screwed over at once by a group of succubus using suggestion and removing the boon from anyone who makes the save.

Probably best to be nice with a succubus. Or any demon really. I always thought it would be awesome to have a succubus commenter.


Well you can defiantly use the Succubus to screw with the player through suggestion but you could also throw them a curve ball as an unforeseen consequence. Succubus live for a long time so it is very likely that she has enemy's. Have them show up and demand the Demoniac summon her to be slain.

Or introduce a new antagonist. One that can smell the evil taint on the Demoniac. It could be anyone really. Perhaps a former ally that now is horrified by the demonic taint and swears to no longer be helpful.

Be creative.


Warrant wrote:

Some very good advice. I think I'll talk to the player and basically tell him:

"Yes, you can technically force the demon to profane gift you, but I'm going to role-play that succubus as CE and she will suggest things to you constantly until she is bored and decides to drop the profane gift, thereby dropping your CHA"

Since he is a demoniac with high knowledge:Planes, shall I inform him that he would have absolutely zero power over the succubus unless he can learn her true name, and possibly would never be able to summon the profane gift-er again?

I mean I can empathize with the player that got this new ability and thinks "hey, I can totally do something new and cool!" but at the same time I don't want to just screw him over with a permanent CHA drain.

Perhaps I could meet somewhere in the middle. Allow him to gain the boon once or twice for a temporary time, while dropping the CHA for a temporary time.

My end goal is so the player can have fun, but I don't want him to turn into a succubus profane-gift generating font.

I can totally understand you wanting to let your player have fun. Thats the main job of a DM... to make it fun for your players. But you should also have fun. On top of that there should be consequences for actions in your game. After all, if you treat your players with kid gloves they will more then likely abuse that coddling.

My suggestions:

1. Defenitly give your player a Knowledge(of the Planes) check to realize he might be in trouble if he does what he wants.

2. If he follows through I would suggest spending a few game sessions using suggestion to mess with him. Start simple like inappropriate comments to friends... saying mean or cruel things to them. Then start having suggestions to do small evil things (kick puppies, spit on homeless, laugh at allies wounds). Finally have suggestions that are truly evil (attack allies during combat, steal, murder,ect).

3. At some point the PC should realize how badly he has messed up and will want to fix this. Give him another Knowledge check to realize that a Protection from Evil will temporarily remove the link and protect him from the suggestions.

4. This should anger the Succubus enough the first time used to cause her to remove her gift. Roll the drain as intended.

This might seem harsh. And it is. But its not a bad idea for several reasons. First your player is playing a Demoniac PC. There should be times he gets burned. This is a perfect lesson that his path is fraught with chances to loose himself if he doesn't tread carefully. It adds a bit of danger to his choices... that's cool. Second it makes sure he knows that doing abusive things in your game can and will be countered.

NOW. After that's done.

1. You can throw him a boon by offering a cheap restoration spell either through a friendly NPC or item that will give him his CHA back. Lesson learned and he didn't get a permanent negative.

2. Either in game or off to the side let him know that there are ways to get what he desired. But they take a lot more work then a simple summons. You can even give him the chance to research the True Name of the Succubus that burned him after he can use the Binding spell... so he can get some payback and actually bind the Succubus to his service for a year and a day.

You just...

Taught him a lesson
Gave him extra danger and RP for his class
Gave him a goal to work toward
And gave him the chance to get a pet in later levels.

Its a win win and something that should be a fun story later on.

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