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As a GM, pretty much anything beyond mild flirting between NPC and PC, or PC and PC, is simply fade-to-black/off-screen, regardless if it is hetero or gay. As time permits, you might pop over to the long Homosexuality in Golarion thread for how other GMs/players ideas handle it (as well as some plot hooks).
My best advice is to ask your players and work out something that everyone at the table is comfortable with.
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It's a game about pretending to be an elf who's also roaming murder-hobo. Sex is not a big deal. Sure, if you want to talk about where somebody likes to rub their naughty bits, some of them are gay. Some of them only get hard when they're wrestling a ravenous ooze monster. Whatever.
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Some of them only get hard when they're wrestling a ravenous ooze monster. Whatever.
I suddenly feel the need to hide all my jelly...
I treat all the NPC's as bi, unless something suggests otherwise, and allow the PC's to try and woo as they please. Some won't succeed, but then, just because a man and a woman are both heterosexual doesn't mean they'll succeed.
There is at least one huge discussion about this subject, homosexuality in Golarion or some such..
Personally it has an almost negligible role in my campaigns, I do not feel compelled to make it an issue, neither does it tickle my imagination. There might be a rare occasion I might bring it into the campaign but I can't recall ever doing so. Sexuality in general is understated in the games we play though, so it might just be that.
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Sexuality itself is something that rarely comes up in games I've run...though I've had a few gay NPCs. Most of them aren't gay parodies, but their sexuality plays a role in the campaign...one jilted lover murdered a significant noble, and never got implicated, for example, because nobody ever knew they had a relationship, or that either one was gay. That never did get solved by PCs, either, but the sudden death of the noble had repercussions in the campaign, and a nice red herring led the PCs astray so that other shenanigans could occur.
That sort of thing only works in a highly political game, but it's one example of something I've done. I had one player play a gay man, once, but other than a little rather campy roleplay and flirting with a few of the male NPCs, not much came of it. I did allow that a couple gave him a little attention, but it was obvious that it wasn't meant to go too far, and I didn't want his choice of an interesting character to make him uncomfortable.
That's pretty key, in my opinion...most games don't have too much of an erotic factor, and you're pretty safe with that default. If you do play one of those games with a fair amount of 'adult' content...just take it slow and easy. People will give you indicators before you cross that boundary, if you pay close attention, and don't push things.
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I handle it like it ain't no thang because it ain't no thang.
Wait, that's not helpful? Okay, basically, I just throw in (or play) gay or bi characters from time to time (It's easier being bi myself, but I don't automatically play bi characters). It's not really at the forefront of the adventurer's life, though, so it doesn't really come up often. So when it does come up, I just do whatever. That guy is gay, that woman is straight, this person is transgender, whatever.
As I said, it ain't no thang.
In my campaigns? I just don't want anyone to be offensive. I've got my own opinions but I'm not going to enforce them. So long as everyone's having fun. I don't feel the need to go out of the way for someone else or have someone go out of the way for me.
I tend to use it either 1) when a player is gay, or 2) as an element for a romantic storyline. For example, the group I'm running now includes a half-orc barbarian who is madly in love with the party's rouge. They're both men, the orc homosexual, the half-elf rouge heterosexual, but really fond of the half-orc. Thus its an unspoken emotional relationship element that may or may not develop over time... Maybe the half-elf will fall in love with the barbarian? Maybe he'll reject him and we get to see hulk get angry? Not sure, but it adds a neat story element to a mega-dungeon crawl (Rappan Athuk). Hope that helps.
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Ha ha ha. Every player except me in my playgroup is some variation of lgbt. They like sex/sexuality as part of the game (PC and NPC motivations, having partners, families, and children, etc.) as it is something that is part of their real lives. I'm ace, so I find the whole thing somewhat confusing. So yeah, I find playing gay NPCs (I'm usually the GM) kind of strange, like I find playing Heterosexual NPCs kind of strange. I'm not sure how much it would figure into my campaigns if my playgroup weren't all sexuals, but it's no different than playing a gnomish NPC (which I am also not).
It's a thing, but it's not focused on, much like heterosexuality isn't.
We have a gay Barbarian (played by a gay player) in one of our groups and it just is. Occasional references to "Wow is that succubus hot" "Really? I hadn't noticed" type stuff but overall it's just whatever.
As it should be. You don't make a thing out of it any more than you make a thing out of someone being heterosexual.
I've had at least three gay players in my games (currently one fellow is in both of our ongoing games), and the one trait they all shared in common was that they never pursued any romantic or sexual interests with their characters at all. Likewise, I have had, and still have many females in the game, and they also never chase such pursuits.
Hetero males, on the other hand - and note that I have traditionally played with very funny and smart people who sometimes go a little crazy - have run their characters the gamut from whorin' fools to "I did what with which monster, now?" None of those characters is gay, though, nor even bi. They were just used by their players as satirical parodies of over-stimulated, drunken fantasy meatheads to comical effect.
To be honest, there rarely has been any real romance in any games I've run over the decades. Not because it wasn't there somewhere, written in as a possibility, but just because nobody in my groups thinks it's worth pursuing, necessary to the game, or even necessarily appropriate to the game. And that's fine with me.
As it should be. You don't make a thing out of it any more than you make a thing out of someone being heterosexual.
This is how I usually try and deal with it.
Oddly enough when I have other players who are actually homosexual they've been very likely to point it out or make a deal out of it and many jokes. In my area there are more younger people though, so that might be a thing about it. I feel like its opposite of some of the people posting though.
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The same way Conan, HP Lovecraft, Michael Morecock, and Fritz Lieber handled homosexuality.
It comes up every so often, about as often as its counterpart. Some of the NPCs flirt to seduce and manipulate, others out of general attraction. I don't have any cultures that frown upon or outlaw relationships between adults of any persuasion or race. Occasionally I'll have parents or family members who frown upon the liaison between an NPC and a PC because the PC isn't 'good enough' for their son, daughter, sister, whatever, just to add some roleplaying spice.
When I ran Rise of the Runelords and the Sandpoint material specified that there was a poorly kept secret relationship between two of the male NPCs (Cyrdak and Jasper), I purposefully added in another relationship between two other NPCs of the same gender that was completely open to make it clear that the Cyrdak-Jasper union was not secret because the characters were gay but for reasons the PCs didn't know (but of course became curious and had to find out).
I also made Madame Mvashti very 'handsy' with the female druid in our party. She may have been ancient, but the woman still had needs! The druid still needed info from Mvashti, and watching the player roleplay that situation was a hoot and a half!
I've Played a gay character many times but I don't role play out the romance stuff. With me being gay it's not a big deal to me. I always wonder why people ( older then teenagers ) want to role play "sex" stuff? I know when I was a teenager many a moon ago that stuff came up a lot understandingly. Being that sex was something me and my friends could only dream about. For them girls and for me David Hunt :)
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Interestingly enough, the only full-blown romantic story that ever really got played out in any game I was ever involved in was the elf woman that my paladin, Eldon Guyre, fell in love with...pursued...and eventually married. He was, of course, very upstanding with her...but the temple had no vow of chastity...he worshiped Pallas Athena, so even something like seduction would have been far out of the question...and he didn't marry until he specifically got HER approval. They adopted children - elven orphans. What happened in the privacy of their home was anybody's guess.
We have sex and sexuality in our games. We don't go into detail with the, ahem, "ins and outs" of what happens between the sheets, but it's major part of people and their motivations. My group is all straight men, but we've had NPC's and a few characters be gay.
All my experiences with homosexuals don't reflect what Hollywood portrays them as. Two of my coworkers were gay me, one my boss. Neither acted like a flamboyant, sharp-witted queen that they always show on TV. They were basically like any other man except they liked men. My other female coworker is bi but in a committed relationship with her same sex partner who is gay. She acts feminine and girly, wears her hair long and does her makeup.
Since this is my experience, my gay characters and NPC's tend to look and act just as any other person in their position. However their romances and interests are obviously different. We try to avoid turning groups in caricatures. Some campaigns we treat it as socially unacceptable and that makes for an interesting dynamic.
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The same way Conan, HP Lovecraft, Michael Morecock, and Fritz Lieber handled homosexuality.
...errr...
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If all the couples or potential couples or even casual encounters are heterosexual, that shows how you handle homosexuality. You deny it.
I'm sure I'm taking this out of context, but I'm somewhat nonplussed by that remark.
I don't think I've ever included a homosexual relationship in my games, but I also do think I've ever included raisins. Lots of different foods, but it's entirely possible raisins have never come up. Does that mean I'm in denial of raisins?
Seriously. I'm confused.
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In the games I run relationships tend to play an enormous role, though the mechanical aspects of sex are generally left out. But I greatly enjoy role playing the social aspects. Homosexuality comes up on occasion, though I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that the only gay character outside of a game I ran was when one of our female players played a sex crazed fighter in the world's most transparent closet. In her defense all of her female characters were pretty sex crazed as well, though they were also interested in men.
I have played several gay NPC's. Actually my gay hobgoblin warlord is still an easy favorite among our group for NPC's I have run. So far I have not had an obviously gay PC, although the only time my character's sexuality even came into play was when another player decided to "make a man" of my young Druid by purchasing the services of a lady of the evening, and I suppose even so it would not preclude him being bisexual.
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The elven nation in my home game was, until recently, ruled by two kings (one died in a war with dwarves). Took the players a while to realize that two different men kept being referred to each as king.
Also, whenever I run a tavern or brothel I make the servers/employees equal parts men and women, with a variety of inclinations.
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If all the couples or potential couples or even casual encounters are heterosexual, that shows how you handle homosexuality. You deny it.
I'm sure I'm taking this out of context, but I'm somewhat nonplussed by that remark.
I don't think I've ever included a homosexual relationship in my games, but I also do think I've ever included raisins. Lots of different foods, but it's entirely possible raisins have never come up. Does that mean I'm in denial of raisins?
Seriously. I'm confused.
I'm sure you're fine. It's like spiders... generally, unless you live in arctic conditions, you're within 3 feet of at least one spider your entire life. Normally, this never comes up, but that doesn't mean the spiders aren't there, just that in the context of the game no one thinks about it. So no one is saying you're in denial about spiders, or that you're spiderphobic.
There's probably a half dozen spiders watching you right now.
Quietly.
Patiently.
Hungrily.
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If all the couples or potential couples or even casual encounters are heterosexual, that shows how you handle homosexuality. You deny it.
I'm sure I'm taking this out of context, but I'm somewhat nonplussed by that remark.
I don't think I've ever included a homosexual relationship in my games, but I also do think I've ever included raisins. Lots of different foods, but it's entirely possible raisins have never come up. Does that mean I'm in denial of raisins?
Seriously. I'm confused.
If raisins were a regular foodstuff eaten in 5-10% of the meals in the area you were in (assuming that you mentioned what the characters were eating), and they never came up, then yes, it would be strange.
The same way Conan, HP Lovecraft, Michael Morecock, and Fritz Lieber handled homosexuality.
when you referenced conan, maybe you ment Robert E Howard?
also of note, lovecraft and Howard handled sex and race very differently.
Having played a Eberron Changeling at a table as the only straight player, my toon was the only universal fit. Eight players of seven races, not counting the two elves as being compatible due to cultural differences. Amusingly, I got stuck with a chastity vow for about three levels.
In over 20 sessions, I think actual sex between characters occured 2-3 times.
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My take on this conversation:
1: How do you handle chocolate ice cream in game?
2: I don't really want to offend anybody by including chocolate ice cream.
1: Do you have vanilla ice cream in game?
2: Well sort of. I mean I have ice cream. It breaks immersion not having any ice cream. If there is no ice cream then why would you have waffle cones?
1: So your campaign assumption is that all ice cream is vanilla?
2: Well, I don't EXPLICITLY state the flavor of the ice cream.
Me: I don't like ice cream, but I realize most people do. It would be silly to make any reference to ice cream (including why there are waffle cones), but pretend all ice cream is vanilla.
(Note: I wasn't the one who started the food references)
as a dm i do not treat homosexuality any different than any other element in the game world as i would another character trait.
thats good because it doesn't have any more significance than normal fluff a pc or npc would have.
but my long term gaming group may be a special case, because we don't "fade to black" when sex and sexuality become an issue. there is equal parts sex & story as there is violence in our games. as a group, are quite comfortable in our own skins for sex not to be an issue and that includes homosexuality.
i do remember a dm at a hobby shop who would use homosexuality as a "sex wall" for his games.
want to charm the noble as a female bard with diplomacy?
he's gay.
want to win the affections of a princess as a male fighter as a story plot?
she's gay.
playing a dashing male gay rogue?
every npc you will meet from then on, is as straight as a long sword.
that is, until the female bard comes around, then they instantly change to gay.
2 sessions in, he lost his whole gaming group.
If raisins were a regular foodstuff eaten in 5-10% of the meals in the area you were in (assuming that you mentioned what the characters were eating), and they never came up, then yes, it would be strange.If all the couples or potential couples or even casual encounters are heterosexual, that shows how you handle homosexuality. You deny it.
I'm sure I'm taking this out of context, but I'm somewhat nonplussed by that remark.
I don't think I've ever included a homosexual relationship in my games, but I also do think I've ever included raisins. Lots of different foods, but it's entirely possible raisins have never come up. Does that mean I'm in denial of raisins?
Seriously. I'm confused.
Pretty much that.
I mostly raise it to counter the "We don't describe explicit sex, so there no need to handle homosexuality" argument. Not mentioning it, while mentioning heterosexuality, even implicitly, is saying something.
I suppose it is fair enough to say that I have no use for homosexuality in my games, it is out there in the world but not something that is common and will usually not play a major part in any adventures, I don't feel especially bad about not including homo sexuality in my games, I just don't feel the need.
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In medieval pseudo-Europe it should be handled as it was in medieval Europe. in feudal pseudo-Japan it should be handled as it was in feudal Japan. In pseudo-Moslem pseudo-Africa it should handled as it was in Moslem Africa.
If you can't run a game without postmodern sexual mores you probably should be running something in a postmodern setting.
Why? Just because my fantasy setting vaguely resembles medieval Europe, why should I include elements of medieval Europe I consider wrong? It's a fantasy setting -- it can be anything I want it to be. Why is a lack of sexual or gender bigotry harder to believe than magic? Or elves? Or treants?
All NPCs are unspecified at my table unless a player tries to make a pass, at which point I roll to see if their even interested. The exact number depend on how I'm feeling situation to situation, but usually there's a 2/3 chance the PC has a shot. "Successful" romantic endeavors are described after the fact, as "They got together" or "After defeating the dragon, they got married". My players are really into legacy with their characters, so a lot of them look for NPCs their characters would like so that, next adventure we play, it's Pathfinder: The Next Generation.
Not being comfortable with romance/sex coming up at the table is a completely acceptable thing. Not being okay with homosexual character specifically, would be a problem. I am not friends with/do not run games for people that would have a problem with that.
In my games you're at least as likely to see that the couple running the Inn is made up of members of the same sex as you are the opposite sex; in worldbuilding I consider things like inheritance and nobility and marriage and how that interacts with sexual mores. Basically, it's integrated in, and since most of my setting pieces lack the completely arbitrary stigma against homosexuality, it (and bisexuality) exist and are usually only something that particularly matters if a relationship is relevant or if some form of relationship is looked down on in the locale the PCs are in.
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In medieval pseudo-Europe it should be handled as it was in medieval Europe. in feudal pseudo-Japan it should be handled as it was in feudal Japan. In pseudo-Moslem pseudo-Africa it should handled as it was in Moslem Africa.
If you can't run a game without postmodern sexual mores you probably should be running something in a postmodern setting.
Absolutely. You should also treat magic and non-human races as they were in medieval Europe. And no Female PCs, as they couldn't be adventurers. And a dominate monotheistic church. (<-- sarcasm)
If you ignore any of the above, you are NOT running a campaign set in medieval Europe. Do you think "postmodern sexual mores" changes your campaign more than magic?
If you can't imagine how a world with magic would evolve differently, ESPECIALLY SOCIALLY, from earth, you probably shouldn't be creating a campaign setting.
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In medieval pseudo-Europe it should be handled as it was in medieval Europe. in feudal pseudo-Japan it should be handled as it was in feudal Japan. In pseudo-Moslem pseudo-Africa it should handled as it was in Moslem Africa.
If you can't run a game without postmodern sexual mores you probably should be running something in a postmodern setting.
Absolutely. You should also treat magic and non-human races as they were in medieval Europe. And no Female PCs, as they couldn't be adventurers. And a dominate monotheistic church. (<-- sarcasm)
If you ignore any of the above, you are NOT running a campaign set in medieval Europe. Do you think "postmodern sexual mores" changes your campaign more than magic?
If you can't imagine how a world with magic would evolve differently, ESPECIALLY SOCIALLY, from earth, you probably shouldn't be creating a campaign setting.
+1.
Now, having things like racism, caste systems, and other forms of discrimination adds a sense of realism and can make the stories more compelling. However, discrimination of this specific kind would be hitting it a little too close to home for several of my friends, so I would never make it an obstacle for them in game, even if I did make it a part of a particular religion or culture (which I haven't felt it necessary to do).
Half-Orcs being feared by the general populace that doesn't understand what they are? Sure. I don't have any half-orc friends (I'm a bad white person).
Also, consider the number of polytheistic religion that dominated Europe back when people there unanimously believed in elves and dragons, and how much they cared about this issue.
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In my game, lots of people get laid.
It started out because my original home game was made up of 5 aging ex-hipsters who would get together on Saturday nights and smoke tons of weed and then play D&D. And we loved improving crazy ass shiznit, and inevitably the guys would get back to town and have some coin to spend and they'd go looking for some chicks.
Except for Sir Piter the Pious, who was, of course, a paladin. He stayed away from gambling, wine and women and lived only for the thrill of battling evil and the joy of helping others. But this one time, Sir Piter the Pious was escorting a nun of Madriel across the Scarred Lands. I wish I could remember her name (Sister Alyda?) but anyway, they had a particularly narrow escape from some orcs living at Durgeddin Keep and when they finally got back to town, their nervous anxiety and years of sexual repression got the better of them and they did it in the stables like livestock. It was hawt! Anyway, I had intended on a little bundle of joy showing up on Sir Piter's doorstep nine months later, but, alas, he retired the character before then and then, later, the party all got killed in a temple of Chardun by a serpent golem and a facestealer.
Anyway, that's not at all about homosexuality. Hmm. My character Cricket the Sexy Goblin Druid is gay and he got some wicked awesome play in Kirth Gersen's sadly defunt play-by-post. The Crimson Masque isn't really bisexual so much as he's polymorphously perverse.
Okay, I have to fess up. I am running a negative stereotyped lesbian NPC in my current game which is set in a Galtan gulag. I know, it's wicked bad, ladies, but there was no way I was going to run a prison game without having the party run into Ilsa, Harem Keeper of the Gray Gardeners!
But, I do apologize, LGBT crowd, for not including positive homosexual characters in my game (I'm not sure Cricket counts) and am adding Kiss of the Spiderwoman to my Netflix queue to redress some wrongs.
Yours for the revolution,
DJdD
I suppose it is fair enough to say that I have no use for homosexuality in my games, it is out there in the world but not something that is common and will usually not play a major part in any adventures, I don't feel especially bad about not including homo sexuality in my games, I just don't feel the need.
Yes. Because the number of people who are in the aristocracy is smaller than the number of gay people, it seems unlikely that PCs would meet any. Oh, That doesn't make sense.
Why? Just because my fantasy setting vaguely resembles medieval Europe, why should I include elements of medieval Europe I consider wrong? It's a fantasy setting -- it can be anything I want it to be. Why is a lack of sexual or gender bigotry harder to believe than magic? Or elves? Or treants?In medieval pseudo-Europe it should be handled as it was in medieval Europe. in feudal pseudo-Japan it should be handled as it was in feudal Japan. In pseudo-Moslem pseudo-Africa it should handled as it was in Moslem Africa.
If you can't run a game without postmodern sexual mores you probably should be running something in a postmodern setting.
I'ma have to agree with Ms. (Mrs.?) Price for once. If Elves and Gnomes and all sorts of different species can get along without tearing each other's throat out at every given opportunity, I see no reason why they should hate on gays and transsexuals or anything as a matter of course either.
Especially transsexuals because, well, cursed items that gender-bend people exist.
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Not being comfortable with romance/sex coming up at the table is a completely acceptable thing. Not being okay with homosexual character specifically, would be a problem.
This.
Sexuality probably isn't a major theme in most games, but if or when sexual themes do come up, specifically and intentionally excluding or ignoring homosexual/pansexual/transexual characters and scenarios isn't a socially responsible approach.
You can claim that your campaign is modeled after [insert medieval culture here], but unless the reason that sexual bigotry in your campaign is modeled that way is to highlight the unfairness and travesty of such attitudes, then you're pretty much just targeting and excluding groups of people that you don't like (or don't understand). Sexual themes being rare, of course, you're probably doing so unconsciously (unless you're a jerk).
The same goes for gender inequality, rape themes, and other issues of social equality. Actually setting your campaign, for example, in medieval Europe is one thing... but glorifying medieval attitudes of hatred and bigotry in-game is quite another.
Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts
My group and I have never played through a character romance, so sexuality is largely ignored.