Non Traditional Character Races?


Pathfinder Online

1 to 50 of 171 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Goblin Squad Member

I was just wondering why PFO could not break from the traditional character races and add more, particularly the Goblinoid and half-Giant races to the mix?

In this sand box, as Ryan Dancey has said, the character is the end game. We are the content or the creators of the bulk of the content. GW is producing the environment for us to interact in. Now this might be my simplistic view of it, but I believe that this should give them more time to create more than the average number of playable races.

What I would like to see as playable races:

Goblins
Kobolds
Orcs
Gnolls
Half Ogres
Ogres
Were-creatures (various)

Some have even expressed the desire to play Undead (not the mindless zombies)..

Vampires
Lich
Death Knights
Wraiths

And lets not forget some of the other woodland races like:

Dryads
Satyrs
Centaurs
Pixies
Sprites

Yes I know this may sound like a monumental task, but as far as the character modeling is concerned, I'm sure all of these would be in the game as NPCs anyway. It may just be the matter of unlocking them as character races, and assigning them traits.

Again, I'm not a programmer and I'm sure I'm over simplifying, but this suggestion is not out of the realm of technical possibility. Out of the financial possibility perhaps, at least at time of launch, but not technically impossible.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

They did say they would like to implement the races from the Advance Race Guide (ARG), but they be added much later, like a few years later. They also willing to allow for one race change, so when the race does become available one does not have to start over from scratch. One can place a description of your intended race on your character profile, even if graphically you using the wrong race (well closest available race to your chosen race).

I definitely aiming for 2 races for the twins from the ARG.

The biggest hurdle is actually graphic content creation compared to the little race ability construction. Race features in the program would simply be a list of programmed abilities to pick from. Very few playable races in the Pathfinder game has abilities that are unique to only the race.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Some of those proposed 'playable' races would be extraordinarily powerful, according to my reading of Pathfinder fiction. I think, for an example, offering Vampire status to players would not be really viable in multiplayer, unless 'normal' player characters are going to become their equal, and even then the nature of the vampire would terribly imperil younger PCs.

Goblin Squad Member

What a surprise to come upon "a goblin" and attack it, only to find out that "it" is a maxed out warrior.

Goblin Squad Member

Well I don't feel like digging it up right now, but we've had this discussion before, main things worth noting.

1. Games launch is going to be mininimum viable races. We may not even have core at the point of EE.

2. We are going to need to keep everything on relative power. Level adjustments were bad enough in PnP, they didn't work which is why paizo got rid of them in pathfinder, and instead created the advance race guide, of which you basically can add to existing races, or have the rest of the players pick an equally powerful race as compensation. Obviously that solution won't work particularly well in an MMORPG.

3. The act of making a "rare" race, will accomplish the exact opposite. Everyone wants to be the uncommon exception to the rule but in the end, you just wind up with exceptions that outnumber the rule.


I am personally against (non-core) planetouched. They were introduced so Pathfinder could offer exotic non-monster races to GMs that wanted to include them. They have little place in Golarion's world, and distract from its feel. If the possibility is eventually offered to purchase special races, make them monsters--preferably from the main Bestiary.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Onishi wrote:
Everyone wants to be the uncommon exception to the rule but in the end, you just wind up with exceptions that outnumber the rule.

This describes every game community, the vast majority of the ideas are people wanting to do certain things without thinking what it would be like if everyone could do those things. It's like the people that want a PvP toggle, but still want a thriving economy not plagued by inflation. In the end, the people really want their character to be special, and everyone else to supply the proper world around them.


How many characters will be there for an account? If we can have multiple characters (but still one toon under full training when log off), the special race can be added later with a requirement of one character at least obtaining enough capstones in order to be chosen from in creation screen. Other templates such as lich, werewolf/vampire affliction can be ingame contents introduced later.

Goblin Squad Member

@Mirage Wolf

Safe to say, at least two, because of Destiny's Twin. I'm hoping we will get three or more slots, but if I had to, I would buy a 3rd character slot without hesitation.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

I'm hoping Tiefling and Aasimar make it in eventually. I'll probably play human with a note in my bio for whichever one I intend to be when it's released.

It was stated somewhere that you can have multiple characters, not sure if they put a limit on it. The big thing is, you will need to pay for "training time" for each of them separately. (Except your Destiny's Twin which gains when the linked character does.) They also said they were looking into allowing multiple characters logged in at the same time (EXCEPT Destiny's Twins) this is also known as multi-boxing but not requiring multiple accounts.

Goblin Squad Member

I mainly look forward that they add Drow, or at least let the Half-elf chose the side trait of drow-blood.

Goblin Squad Member

Aasimar would make sense, what with the Holy War going on up north along the World-Wound, and Tieflings make a reverse of that same sense. Demons everywhere and all.

So that's likely Humans, Dwarves, Elves and Halflings at first, if I remember the Votes, then likely add Gnomes, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs after that.

I can only see Tieflings and Aasimars coming in as Platinum Account rewards, given that they are slightly more powerful in the Pen-and-Paper situation.

I don't know if Drow would be allowed, given in Golarion they're very much homicidally psychotic individuals that are hunted down by secretive Elf Orders, and a Half-Drow would be rarer than a chaste succubi. How long has it been since Drow started coming to the surface anyhow?

And +1 to the Multi-Boxing, that would be awesome if you could have 2 or 3 or more (!) characters all logged in at once, all doing their things while your 'main' is out kicking bandit backsides across the Hexes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bluddwolf wrote:
I was just wondering why PFO could not break from the traditional character races and add more, particularly the Goblinoid and half-Giant races to the mix?

Because it's already badwrongfun to play outside the Core Races in the TTRPG.

Letting this heresy spread to PFO would be double badwrongfun, and that's just terrible! D:

Goblin Squad Member

Oh, trust me, I'd leap into a game that offered something other than Elves/Dwarves/Gnomes as the standard races, but nobody seems to be willing to take the plunge to make a 'monstrous' race available other than "THAT WHICH CAN NOT BE NAMED!" (namely Everquest and WoW .... who are two of the biggest commercial successes in the industry .... go figure?)


Yeah, that's the reason why the MMO is most likely not going to get that.

I was talking more about Pathfinder when gamed on tables. Same problem, different reason.

Goblin Squad Member

I think GW could allow permissions for some players who would RP these faithfully and earnt that trust to enhance the game for others.

Maybe some of those eventually across the board. But the exceptional for exceptional players with exceptional rules?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
AvenaOats wrote:

I think GW could allow permissions for some players who would RP these faithfully and earnt that trust to enhance the game for others.

Maybe some of those eventually across the board. But the exceptional for exceptional players with exceptional rules?

That is a slippery slope that you are proposing....

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:

I think GW could allow permissions for some players who would RP these faithfully and earnt that trust to enhance the game for others.

Maybe some of those eventually across the board. But the exceptional for exceptional players with exceptional rules?

That is a slippery slope that you are proposing....

It is, but so to is proposing the devs have a manifest role to play in the game too with their own "agents". We're blurring the boundary of developers and players during crowdforging, why not blur it during the live game as natural extension. One precedent is the "monster cast". This is one way to really integrate pve further, maybe.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Icyshadow wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
I was just wondering why PFO could not break from the traditional character races and add more, particularly the Goblinoid and half-Giant races to the mix?

Because it's already badwrongfun to play outside the Core Races in the TTRPG.

Letting this heresy spread to PFO would be double badwrongfun, and that's just terrible! D:

Your newspeak plusungood. Badwrongfun obsolete by plusunfun.

Goblin Squad Member

AvenaOats wrote:
Bringslite wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:

I think GW could allow permissions for some players who would RP these faithfully and earnt that trust to enhance the game for others.

Maybe some of those eventually across the board. But the exceptional for exceptional players with exceptional rules?

That is a slippery slope that you are proposing....
It is, but so to is proposing the devs have a manifest role to play in the game too with their own "agents". We're blurring the boundary of developers and players during crowdforging, why not blur it during the live game as natural extension. One precedent is the "monster cast". This is one way to really integrate pve further, maybe.

I personally am in favor of this idea, although I doubt that it would actually make it in because too many people who just aren't "special" enough to "earn the trust of the devs" would complain and call GW bad names and it would end badly. Again, I 100% support this idea, but I am 99% sure it won't make it live. I love the idea though. Keep them coming.

Just incase there is confusion because this is typed and context can be lost when typing and reading, I am not being sarcastic, I really do support and like this idea.

Goblin Squad Member

Well it may be crazy or unrealistic, but I think it's an area we can be challenged on thinking about and specifically: Fairness, equality and diversity.

Goblin Squad Member

AvenaOats wrote:
Bringslite wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:

I think GW could allow permissions for some players who would RP these faithfully and earnt that trust to enhance the game for others.

Maybe some of those eventually across the board. But the exceptional for exceptional players with exceptional rules?

That is a slippery slope that you are proposing....
It is, but so to is proposing the devs have a manifest role to play in the game too with their own "agents". We're blurring the boundary of developers and players during crowdforging, why not blur it during the live game as natural extension. One precedent is the "monster cast". This is one way to really integrate pve further, maybe.

In my opinion there is no "bluring" between developers and players right now. Yes players get some say in the order, and to some extent what should get implimented from the lists of valid options.

Here's one fact of MMO's, fans will always suspect some extent of bias, whether they are suspecting the dev's having favor to a specific class, role, settlement etc... but here's the thing, when you add that power and potential to a group who does not have a vested interest in keeping the majority of players happy. suspicions get larger. I would say about 80% of situations with players with psudo GM powers, or even minor power have gone horribly wrong. I've seen incidents of event manager's girlfriends, happening to "win" 15 random chance events in a row.

Messages that were supposed to be delivered from "community assistants" to GMs happening to get lost for people who they don't like etc...

Yes corruption to some extent happens, but when the people with the opportunity to abuse power aren't gambling their jobs to do it... it's flat out commonplace.

Fact is I don't want accidentally offending some "authorized" villain on a forum, to lead to repeated incidents of goblin tribes at the gates of my settlement.

Goblin Squad Member

Different races bring different game mechanics, more character artist staffing needed, possibly more demands on the system. I'm sure none of this is an impossibility because of technology, but with the pre-launch business plan, I've just got my fingers crossed for Drow.

I've got no issues with most of the above listed, except...

The Undead. Make undead the race and those classes but again that's a whole nother system that they would have to design and fit into the plot and I'm sure there would be a "living" uprising against any undead just walking around.

Werecreatures. Maybe as like a small perk.... like how druids can shapeshift, but no one should be able to just walk around in Teenwolf mode. Lycanthropes are private creatures for the most part and don't keep friends all that well... besides who would want to lose control of their character for 24 hours after being bitten? Remember, Lycanthropy is a curse and I would prefer if we do something we do it as close to cannon as possible. This also seems like another small system they would have to design around the wants of the minority.

Centaurs, Ogres, and Half-Ogres. Centaurs seem a bit too advantageous to start out with. Large creature, longer reach, faster base speed. Ogres present a whole nother "R to X Rated" problem. Incest and rape. Nine times out of ten, if not more, a half-Ogre will be the product of rape. Besides in their immediate family or amongst other ogres, they seek to impose their will on those they deem weak. Ogres should just be a monster race. If half-ogres can be brought in while keeping it PG-13 with the rest of the game, I'm fine with it.

Orcs! Yes, let us play orcs. They aren't THAT dim-witted. They are humanoid and they've been given a bad rap for far too long. ORCS!!

Goblin Squad Member

@Onishi - A good dose of realism. Still think there untapped potential in some form, though.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This interesting discussion lead me to think about my minimum requirement for a playable game, in terms of races available. I was actually surprised to realise that I'd be happy if the game launched with just one race.

So not only can I do without drow, orcs, dhampir, sylphs, and grippli; but I can also do without elves, half-elves, dwarves, and halflings.

I'd expect them to be in the game eventually, because it's Golarion... but if it meant EE came earlier, then bin 'em :-)

Goblin Squad Member

@Areks,

Half-orcs are usually the result if rape as well; and Elves probably wish the same would account for Half-Elves, but that is likely not the truth.

As for the idea of allowing certain chosen players to be a certain race. That is possible, and has been done in EvE. Eve Online used to have a corps of reporters, that had certain abilities - just short of GMs. These characters were under the ultimate control of CCP, and their access could be pulled at any time. I'm not sure if they were resident on a whole separate account or just filled a character slot on the players regular account.

GW could do something similar with a particularly powerful character, placed under the control of a player. This player would then have to generate meaningful content for the community, with this character, but keep his identity secret until the character was killed off.... Permanent-death.

Control of such characters could be like winning a lottery. GW will keep a record of what these special cast members do during their life time. At the end if a cycle ( maybe a year) the identities of the player would be revealed and their contribution could be rated by GW and the community at large.

Goblin Squad Member

It occurs to me that this might be a feature of the cash shop. Players could pay cash to be able to assume the role of a monster boss with a contingent of followers and a lair of some sort for say, one week. During that week the player, as a monster boss, could muster as much defense as possible with the full expectation that his/her doom is near since the appearance of a new lair would be posted in nearby settlements. Other players would have to group up to try to rid the land of the creatures and their boss and would be able to loot the boss treasure.

Of course, in order to prevent exploits, like playing a lazy boss with huge loot so your friends could easily kill and take your stash, would be part of the mechanics of this cash store event. But it would be very much like the chance to buy a dungeon instance for you and some of your friends to explore. Some loot, not too much, so the group could have fun and get some small reward(s).

And it would give the players the chance to play a non-traditional character in the boss role. Maybe these would be treated as an escalation within the cash shop. Your normal character could earn certain qualifying "tokens" that, along with a modest sum of cash, could be used to but the "right" to play a monster boss (like a lich or a vampire). That player would have to be a koblold boss first, then maybe a goblin boss, then an orc boss, ogre boss, ettin boss, until they have qualified to play a lich boss.

Goblin Squad Member

What happens to my dungeon when I am offline?


Milo Goodfellow wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:
Bringslite wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:

I think GW could allow permissions for some players who would RP these faithfully and earnt that trust to enhance the game for others.

Maybe some of those eventually across the board. But the exceptional for exceptional players with exceptional rules?

That is a slippery slope that you are proposing....
It is, but so to is proposing the devs have a manifest role to play in the game too with their own "agents". We're blurring the boundary of developers and players during crowdforging, why not blur it during the live game as natural extension. One precedent is the "monster cast". This is one way to really integrate pve further, maybe.

I personally am in favor of this idea, although I doubt that it would actually make it in because too many people who just aren't "special" enough to "earn the trust of the devs" would complain and call GW bad names and it would end badly.

+1

Back in NWN, one of the RP server require "roleplay points" from DM to have characters rolling a d20 to get the special race template. Once, I was roleplaying a poor beggar in the sewer who had lost all his gears asking for mercy and would flee in any second when the tide turns to enemies.

After a few hours I went to the city, there was another player who just passed by me used the same idea as beggar and earned some rp points from GM while other players praising the player to be innovative... kind discourages players from roleplaying something different since only the selected few would benefit from the system.


The biggest problem here is the art and animations. Art resources are one of the most expensive parts of developing any video game. Also one of the most time consuming.

Just because it's already in the game as an NPC doesn't mean it has the variety of resources required to be a player character. It lessens the number of resources required to make it available to PC's, but only by a small amount. By sticking to a small, preset number of races it allows GW to push out more of other things.

This is certainly something that would be nice to target for future expansion of the game, but even then it causes a lot of problems. Some of those races are far more pwoerful than humans(the baseline race in PFRPG). While this can be less of a big deal in a tabletop setting(the GM can balance things amongst the players by using other factors), in a video game the min/maxx powergaming crowd will have a field day with this.

I dunno. I'm not really opposed to the idea, I'm just wary of it.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite - No idea. Good question. Might be approachable, but not enterable. Maybe a small perimeter that disallows entry, but if that was found, the adventuring party would know roughly where you were. Your lifespan would be limited regardless, as the non-traditional character would be generated for a limited period of time and the timer would start at the time of activation. It would take a while for the general population to learn of your existence. Say maybe 5 days after you activate, a "Wanted" poster appears in town....you would most likely really only have one last hurrah in any event if a real party came to kill you and claim your loot. A single hapless adventurer probably wouldn't live through the encounter, but he could get a party to exact revenge.

Zanathos - Playing a powerful monster boss would be entertaining specifcally because they are more powerful than the average adventurer. And in my timeline above (build your lair for five days, then a "Wanted" poster appears in settlements) the monster boss would have a little time to gather followers/lackeys/toadies and build traps and such.

Just a thought. Some games, like LotRO allow playing a monster, but I didn't see any value in it when I tried it. Might be fun to pwn other players as a monster with no concern for alignment hits. They would have fun knowing they were trying to bast another player.

Goblin Squad Member

@Hardin Steele

I totally agree that it would be a great deal of fun. Could generate some cash for GW, relieve player boredom, and almost be a contest to see who could do best vs. adventuring parties.


Well given the hints that the art will be limited that have been said a few times, I wonder how many races will be in when the game releases, not when EE starts. Hopefully as time moves on more races will be added.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Will Cooper wrote:
I was actually surprised to realise that I'd be happy if the game launched with just one race.

I agree. I always thought it would be cool to release the races in the order the lore has them being created by the gods. I think it would add something to the game if there were a bunch of really old Elves who remembered the time before the other races were made.

Not sure that's practical in PFO, though.

But yeah, +1 for Humans only if that gets it out the door faster.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am opposed to Humans only for a major reason...... I am required to RP a human IRL, why would I choose to do so in a MMO???

They have a place, but it is funner (to me atleast) to do something I can't IRL.

Goblin Squad Member

Milo Goodfellow wrote:

I am opposed to Humans only for a major reason...... I am required to RP a human IRL, why would I choose to do so in a MMO???

They have a place, but it is funner (to me atleast) to do something I can't IRL.

Fully agree with you Milo.

+1

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
But yeah, +1 for Humans only if that gets it out the door faster.

Nah, it's already not human only, we have the goblins already. One of the other playable races.

Goblin Squad Member

DarkOne the Drow wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
But yeah, +1 for Humans only if that gets it out the door faster.
Nah, it's already not human only, we have the goblins already. One of the other playable races.

Wait, where were goblins declared a playable race?

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

So far, at the start of EE we will have Humans, Dwarves, Elves, and maybe Gnomes. These will be followed by the rest of the core races during EE, and maybe non-core races after launch. I think this is a good balance between getting things out as early as possible, and giving players options on playing the race they want. Ryan had also alluded to allowing a one-time race change for players who want to play a race that isn't available at the beginning of EE.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Perhaps that race change would involve a quest for reincarnation or the like. Definitely preferable to just "bam, gnome".

Goblin Squad Member

Dario wrote:
Wait, where were goblins declared a playable race?

They weren't.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If goblins were a playable race (oh please make it so!!!) I would be all over that. PC goblin tribes and settlements would be a beautifully chaotic thing. What would be more fun than having a mob of goblins rolling their siege weapons up to your doorstep? Or goblins accosting folks along the highway? Or the hilarity of watching a goblin ranger try to dual-wield scimitars while calling out to his mangy, three-legged black cat (See! This is why goblins shouldn't read!)?

You simply can't program an AI that could even begin to approximate some of the antics and mayhem that would follow PC goblins.

Goblin Squad Member

Maybe GW could reserve the Goblins as a sort of PvE choice for players with strict "to do's" in the spirit of "Goblins" ie progression involves a lot of Neutral activities? Eg a Goblin Escalation with a mix of players and AIs army?

Goblin Squad Member

Along this line, are we going to get the options for sub-races? Like Gold Dwarves vs Shield Dwarves vs Dark Dwarves (Duergar)? Personally my character from way back in D&D was a Forest Gnome, while extremely rare they aren't anymore or less special than the other gnomes and don't have the level modifier like the Deep Gnome.

As most of the changes for the Sub-races is skin tone, hair color, and base stats I'm not sure it be difficult to implement but it'd be time consuming to test and balance appropriately if adjustments needed to be made.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some of the non-standard races being implemented in the future but I agree that it isn't likely to be something we'll see out the gate.

Goblin Squad Member

I agree with Sintaqx, and Greedalox if he were here.... Goblins would be my choice as well!! It would be so over the top if the UnNamed Company was an all Goblin company!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I honestly don't really want goblins to be a race, though I can see them being a "pay-to-play" option. The problem I have is that a lot of people will not want to play them as the idiotic nutcases they are. We'll have a swarm of "prodigy" goblins running around breaking my immersion. I can handle running into a group of calm gnomes. A group of calm, intelligent goblin linguists? Uh, no.

"No, I'm not stupid. I'm not like the rest of my kind. I spend most of my time coming up with brilliant plans and atoning for the sins of my foolish race." *Brood*

Goblin Squad Member

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

I honestly don't really want goblins to be a race, though I can see them being a "pay-to-play" option. The problem I have is that a lot of people will not want to play them as the idiotic nutcases they are. We'll have a swarm of "prodigy" goblins running around breaking my immersion. I can handle running into a group of calm gnomes. A group of calm, intelligent goblin linguists? Uh, no.

"No, I'm not stupid. I'm not like the rest of my kind. I spend most of my time coming up with brilliant plans and atoning for the sins of my foolish race." *Brood*

Goblins Comic - Please take some time and read this comic. I assure you, you'll enjoy it.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

My main will be a halfling, in any game where they exist. That being said, a goblin alt would be hilarious. A kobold should work, too. There are plenty of non-standard races that are no more powerful than the standard races, and some inherently less powerful.

Don't forget that in Pathfinder, humans aren't the default, middle of the pack race they are in many games. Extra skill points, feats, etc. are significant advantages.

If GW doesn't want to go the EQ/WoW route, and make a few non-standard races just a detailed and flexible as the standard races, there's also the LoTRO route available. Ordinary LoTRO characters can't be monsters, but players can create monstrous characters that have significantly fewer options available than humans, hobbits, elves and dwarves. LoTRO monster characters are confined to a designated battle zone (which might not apply to PFO). They have only a few choices in terms of avatar customization, they can't use PC equipment, and their class abilities are less flexible than those available to the standard races. People still play orcs, wargs, and giant spiders, and have a great time doing so.

Edit: I wasn't thrilled when halflings lost the initial crowd forging vote to gnomes, but I agree that I'd rather start playing sonnet with fewer races than start playing later with lots of races. There will be plenty of time to add races down the road.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm curious, and admit upfront my lack of Pathfinder RPG knowledge, but the differences of the races (other than obvious appearance)are different modifiers and feats.

However, the modifiers in and of themselves are just that, modifiers to existing skills and or feats. Feats are also a generic pool, and not necessarily unique.

So, the question is, how demanding is it to introduce a greater number of races beyond just the graphic demands?

Goblin Squad Member

Mirkk wrote:
Along this line, are we going to get the options for sub-races? Like Gold Dwarves vs Shield Dwarves vs Dark Dwarves (Duergar)? Personally my character from way back in D&D was a Forest Gnome, while extremely rare they aren't anymore or less special than the other gnomes and don't have the level modifier like the Deep Gnome.

I think it won't be necessary for GW to make the differences. Waayyy back in Ultima Online there was a large guild on Catskills (I played on a different realm) that dressed as Orcs and raided the city of Trinsic. There were about 50 or so (more of less) and they could kill most of the guards eventually and would make your day miserable....but they stayed in character and fought until they were beaten back, or occasionally they killed everyone and left.

So, get a group of like minded adventurers and set yourselves up any way you like!

1 to 50 of 171 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Licensed Products / Digital Games / Pathfinder Online / Non Traditional Character Races? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.