I am currently working with a group of my friends to level up some characters to 12 so that we can play Eyes of the Ten. we're having alot of fun and doing alot of new things none of us have done before, and i decided to play an Inquisitor of Erastil (i know its strange.) our party consists of a Paladin of Iomidae a Cleric of Sarenrae a Rogue (of Pharasma) and occasionally a Musket Master Gunslinger or Life Oracle.
one thing that i personally have been struggling with is my AC, and the rogue has the same issue. my saves are pretty good, so i dont generally run into issues with casters (except the occasional fireball or AoE) the rogue on the other hand... well lets just say hes sat out on more than one caster boss...
while at level 10 I and the rogue are doing very good damage (if he sneak attacks) and the paladin outshines us both (everything is evil at this level, and he does something like 8d6+1d8+30 static when smiting with an AC of 34 normal and 38 when smiting.) we keep running into the issue where the more intelligent enemies see that they cant hit the paladin that's wrecking their day, so they decide to kill us squishier players who also do lots of damage.
we have plenty of gold to work with by now, and i would like to help both the rogue and i itemize a little more for defense. I am currently using a +1 Adaptive Holy Composite longbow, and he is currently using a pair of +1 Agile Keen shortswords. we both currently wear +1 Mithral Chainshits, +1 cloaks of resistance +1 belts of dexterity (his) and +1 belt of physical might (mine) +1 rings of protection, and boots of escape.
he has 22 AC and i have 23, and what im trying to decide is with the 20-30k we have to work with how should we go about increasing this? should we be doing dex-for-dodge bonus or magical armor? is there another way to increase saves aside from CoR, like a luck bonus enhancement on armor?
|
Solid defense is really something that I take into consideration starting at level 1.
That said:
- +2 cloak of resistance
- +2 mithral agile breastplate (dependant on dex)
- +1 amulet of natural armor
- Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
- +4 dex belt (rogue)
- Dusty Rose Prism
- Cracked Pale Green Prism
- Ring of Force Shield
let me clarify a few things, defenses were the first thing we focused on, our first items aside from a masterwork bow and shortswords were +1 mithral chainshirt, we're both going for the flavor that that adds to the character, in the ability to appear not in armor out of combat while still armored, and untill now we have not had issues with AC, but now that everything is hitting 20 on a 2 on the die, we've decided that we need some more AC or we're gonna be boned.
that said, we're UPGRADING, not changing. i listed our current gear for a reason, selling it back and buying new is not an option.
You can stack the following different bonus types:
Divine Bonuses
Luck Bonus
Natural Armor
Armor Enhancement
Shield Enhancement (or since both of you use both hands for weapon, Force Shield Ring as mentioned)
Dodge Bonus
Deflection Bonus
Generally speaking it is cheaper to obtain a +1 in each category before going up to a plus 2 in any of them (may want to double check item creation rules on this but I believe it holds true always). That may wash out when you have to start applying multiple abilities to items that already have a different unrelated ability. However, with the GM I normally play with a Ring of Protection could also add divine, luck, and dodge bonus to AC for the 75% of cost outlined in the magic item creation rules for similar bonuses.
Edit: It's actually 100% creation cost for most expensive ability, then 75% for the second, and 50% thereafter for items with multiple similar abilities.
I'd go for Ring of Force shield if you have the slot available.
Also for the bigger battles that you have at least a round to prepare for (thanks to good scouting), get wand(s) of Protection from evil (communal). At base level for spell you get 3min (to divide for up to 3 people). Also look into Tactical Acumen (and maybe Litany of Defense for a 1 turn swift boost). Magic Vestment (especially if you accept the -1 attack from picking up a buckler)/Magic Circle against evil/Sanctify Armor will become your friends as well.
Other things such as the Ioun stones and amulet of natural armor that Artanthos mentioned.
One last thing, don't be afraid to fight defensively when you must.
Well as far as what is affordable.
Obviously adding bonuses to your Mithral armor would be the cheapest route. As stated before adding agile to the rogues armor might be a nice addition if his Dex is higher then the current allowed max Dex bonus. I assume you're Dex is within the limit.
Other than that your looking at more expensive Items...
Rings of Protection (Rings are expensive)
A +4 Dex item instead of a +2 (Just adds 1 to your AC + expensive)
Feat Chains (probably unavailable this late)
Bracers of Natural Armor (This might actually be affordable)
Several Ion stones will give you a bonus.
You might also look into spells that can make it harder for you to get hit. Something as simple as Blink can do wonders.
... that said, we're UPGRADING, not changing. i listed our current gear for a reason, selling it back and buying new is not an option.
Upgrading is exactly what he's talking about. You take your +1 chain shirt to a friendly (or bribable) wizard and ask/pay him to strengthen the magic. Pay him the difference in price between a +1 enchantment (1000) and a +2 enchantment (4000). Which means 3000 gps.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Being in similar situations with Talyn... (+13 to hit, AC: 24)*
Wand of shield with UMD if need be, figure it's 15 gp a combat.
That Dex item might be worth more, since your buddy is using agile weapons. Going from +2 to +4 is additional Defence *and* offence (going to a +4 item is on Talyn's list too)
Combat expertise is always an option, feat wise, don't forget Dodge. Two levels of Lore Warden might help your rogue friend too, if he doens't mind the delay in rogue talents/loss of skill points. 2 bonus feats + combat expertise + more HP are nothing to smirk at.
Glamoured mithral breastplate, while violating your 'not sell' concept, would allow you to continue the 'appear unarmoured' schtick.
Fellow posters, don't forget he said "I am currently working with a group of my friends to level up some characters to 12 so that we can play Eyes of the Ten." So I'm assuming he needs PFS legal stuff (crafting is right out the window).
*
thanks for the advice everyone, i think i for one know what i'm going to do and hopefully before eyes of the 10 i can reach approx. 26 or a little higher, everything ive heard about it tells me that if you're not well prepared you're going to die very very quickly, so i'm looking forward to it, but i have another question pertaining to my character, at level 10 i have just about everything worth getting on my inquisitor that he can get before level 12, i do level 12 damage, i have 4 judgements and 14 or 15 bane's per day, i have both my domain spell and my upgraded 1/day domain spell, and i have fourth level spells (greater invisibility and stoneskin jic) would it be a good idea for levels 11 and 12 to take something like 2 levels in fighter, or a qualified prestige class for bonus feats/saves? the way i see it aside from Stalwart at level 11 (avoid all damage on save-to-halve spells and conditions) im not losing anything except for an additional 4th level spell/day
"...
Domain: .... An inquisitor can select one domain from among those belonging to her deity... Each domain grants a number of domain powers, depending on the level of the inquisitor. An inquisitor does not gain the bonus spells listed for each domain, nor does she gain bonus spell slots.
..."
Emphasis mine. You don't get the domain spells.
Multiclassing really depends upon the build details. But in general no. Without careful preplanning, multiclassing in PF usually makes you weaker.
|
|
You can stack the following different bonus types:
Divine Bonuses
Luck Bonus
Natural Armor
Armor Enhancement
Shield Enhancement (or since both of you use both hands for weapon, Force Shield Ring as mentioned)
Dodge Bonus
Deflection Bonus
Insight Bonus.
Stacking +1 bonuses is the cheapest means of raising defenses.
"...
Domain: .... An inquisitor can select one domain from among those belonging to her deity... Each domain grants a number of domain powers, depending on the level of the inquisitor. An inquisitor does not gain the bonus spells listed for each domain, nor does she gain bonus spell slots.
..."Emphasis mine. You don't get the domain spells.
Multiclassing really depends upon the build details. But in general no. Without careful preplanning, multiclassing in PF usually makes you weaker.
sorry i wasnt clear, i was speaking of the domain powers, not the bonus spells.
"Multiclassing really depends upon the build details. But in general no. Without careful preplanning, multiclassing in PF usually makes you weaker."
levels 11 and 12 for an inquisitor give: Stalwart, +1 BaB, 2 additional 4th level spells/day, +1 to all saves, and a teamwork feat, Greater Bane (i already have this, courtesy of the Bane Baldric, which treats an inquisitor as 4 levels higher when baning), aside from stalwart none of that is really that amazing.
levels 1 and 2 for a fighter give: +2 BaB, 2 bonus feats, Bravery+1, and +3 Fort. the major highlight is the 2 bonus feats.
either way i get +1 ability score.
in your opinion, which is the better bonus?
"...
Domain: .... An inquisitor can select one domain from among those belonging to her deity... Each domain grants a number of domain powers, depending on the level of the inquisitor. An inquisitor does not gain the bonus spells listed for each domain, nor does she gain bonus spell slots.
..."Emphasis mine. You don't get the domain spells.
Multiclassing really depends upon the build details. But in general no. Without careful preplanning, multiclassing in PF usually makes you weaker.
sorry i wasnt clear, i was speaking of the domain powers, not the bonus spells.
"Multiclassing really depends upon the build details. But in general no. Without careful preplanning, multiclassing in PF usually makes you weaker."
levels 11 and 12 for an inquisitor give: Stalwart, +1 BaB, 2 additional 4th level spells/day, +1 to all saves, and a teamwork feat, Greater Bane (i already have this, courtesy of the Bane Baldric, which treats an inquisitor as 4 levels higher when baning), aside from stalwart none of that is really that amazing.
levels 1 and 2 for a fighter give: +2 BaB, 2 bonus feats, Bravery+1, and +3 Fort. the major highlight is the 2 bonus feats.
either way i get +1 ability score.
in your opinion, which is the better bonus?
To sum up my own thinking, i can forgo Stalwart, 2 4th level spell casts per day, +1 reflex, +1 to my innerative to-hit (currently +14 without rapidshot/deadly aim) and a teamwork feat (of which i already have the best three, Shake it off, escape route, and swap places.)for +2 to my first attack, snapshot and improved snapshot (AOO with a bow within 15 feet) +3 Fort and +1 Will (against fear) and enough HP to bring me to almost 100 hp.
to clarify, if i go fighter 2 i get a feat (level 11) and two fighter bonus feats, which can be either toughness (dont have yet... i know...) or combat reflexes, and the snapshot tree which im getting either way.
both have their merits impo.
Are you allowed 3rd edition items?
Are you allowed 3rd edition items?
PFS legal items only... i had to sell back my best gear because thay made it illegal when i was level 9...
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I'd recommend inquisitor levels for that Stalwart. Add a ring of evasion if you really want to make the GM cry. :-)
"Make a Will save, if you make it you're only stunned for one round."
"No, I'm not."
"Fort save against sound burst Take damage regardless."
"No, I don't think so."
"Fine! Fireball, 72 points of damage, save for half."
"Evasion."
"$#^#$^%$^#%$&#$%$#@$^@#@%$*^%"
:-)
Take a level or 4 of cleric for your rogue... It will help with saves, armor prof, and some magic to help with defenses. Take darkness and travel domains FTW!
|
Are you allowed 3rd edition items?PFS legal items only... i had to sell back my best gear because thay made it illegal when i was level 9...
So.... because rules changed mid-way, you had to sell some of your gear back at half its value, or did you get a full refund?
If the former is the case, something seems wrong about that...
...
levels 11 and 12 for an inquisitor give: Stalwart, +1 BaB, 2 additional 4th level spells/day, +1 to all saves, and a teamwork feat, Greater Bane (i already have this, courtesy of the Bane Baldric, which treats an inquisitor as 4 levels higher when baning), aside from stalwart none of that is really that amazing.levels 1 and 2 for a fighter give: +2 BaB, 2 bonus feats, Bravery+1, and +3 Fort. the major highlight is the 2 bonus feats.
either way i get +1 ability score.
in your opinion, which is the better bonus?
To sum up my own thinking, i can forgo Stalwart, 2 4th level spell casts per day, +1 reflex, +1 to my innerative to-hit (currently +14 without rapidshot/deadly aim) and a teamwork feat (of which i already have the best three, Shake it off, escape route, and swap places.)for +2 to my first attack, snapshot and improved snapshot (AOO with a bow within 15 feet) +3 Fort and +1 Will (against fear) and enough HP to bring me to almost 100 hp.
to clarify, if i go fighter 2 i get a feat (level 11) and two fighter bonus feats, which can be either toughness (dont have yet... i know...) or combat reflexes, and the snapshot tree which im getting either way.
both have their merits impo.
Like I said it really depends on the details of your build. If you post the details you will get a more reasoned response.
If you are really a melee machine that can cast the occasional spell then fighter may work better. If you are really trying to do the hybrid sword and spell thing I would not take fighter levels. I think an inquisitor is enough of a caster that I would hate to lose the caster levels.Also if you will be continuing beyond 12th level it might hurt even worse to have lost the caster levels later.
I assume you are using your Protection judgement to bump AC as well.
I'd also recommend Magic Vestments over spending money on armor enchantments.
|
let me clarify a few things, defenses were the first thing we focused on, our first items aside from a masterwork bow and shortswords were +1 mithral chainshirt, we're both going for the flavor that that adds to the character, in the ability to appear not in armor out of combat while still armored, and untill now we have not had issues with AC, but now that everything is hitting 20 on a 2 on the die, we've decided that we need some more AC or we're gonna be boned.
that said, we're UPGRADING, not changing. i listed our current gear for a reason, selling it back and buying new is not an option.
I'm in the same situation you're in but looking at it from a different perspective.
Everything out there is hitting 20 on a 2 or better so I'm just ignoring AC these days. I'd much rather invest in picking up a wand of Blur (or a few cheap potions if you haven't invested in UMD)The only way to get your AC to a point where you aren't getting hit by every attack means either adding at LEAST 8+ points of AC (at about 3-5K GP per point on average). When you realize that your opponents To-Hit bonuses will ALWAYS increase faster then your AC can (unless you are investing half your WBL in it) you'll start devoting that cash to increasing your DPR and grabbing miss chance methods.
Honestly if you aren't going to devote yourself to keeping your AC at or above this simple formula then you can pretty much ignore it.
AC=(3+(lvl*2))+10
Anything less then that is pretty much wasted cash.
...
levels 11 and 12 for an inquisitor give: Stalwart, +1 BaB, 2 additional 4th level spells/day, +1 to all saves, and a teamwork feat, Greater Bane (i already have this, courtesy of the Bane Baldric, which treats an inquisitor as 4 levels higher when baning), aside from stalwart none of that is really that amazing.levels 1 and 2 for a fighter give: +2 BaB, 2 bonus feats, Bravery+1, and +3 Fort. the major highlight is the 2 bonus feats.
either way i get +1 ability score.
in your opinion, which is the better bonus?
To sum up my own thinking, i can forgo Stalwart, 2 4th level spell casts per day, +1 reflex, +1 to my innerative to-hit (currently +14 without rapidshot/deadly aim) and a teamwork feat (of which i already have the best three, Shake it off, escape route, and swap places.)for +2 to my first attack, snapshot and improved snapshot (AOO with a bow within 15 feet) +3 Fort and +1 Will (against fear) and enough HP to bring me to almost 100 hp.
to clarify, if i go fighter 2 i get a feat (level 11) and two fighter bonus feats, which can be either toughness (dont have yet... i know...) or combat reflexes, and the snapshot tree which im getting either way.
both have their merits impo.
Like I said it really depends on the details of your build. If you post the details you will get a more reasoned response.
If you are really a melee machine that can cast the occasional spell then fighter may work better. If you are really trying to do the hybrid sword and spell thing I would not take fighter levels. I think an inquisitor is enough of a caster that I would hate to lose the caster levels.
Also if you will be continuing beyond 12th level it might hurt even worse to have lost the caster levels later.
sorry about the long reply time, I am a level 10 human inquisitor with:
str 14
dex 22 (after items)
con 12
int 13
wis 15 (bump at 12)
cha 08
my skills are focused around knowledge for identifying monsters and perception, with dips into survival, acrobatics, and stealth for when it applies, not counting my ranks in craft leather and fletching for day job (flavor, as an inquisitor of erastil his personal code forces him to use every part of an animal for something, and he uses boneshards to make decorative arrowheads/spearheads/knives for selling.)
Feats: Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Toughness (at level 11, if i go fighter 2 i MAY take Combat reflexes, if not then maybe snapshot or dodge, i know its late for dodge/toughness, but he generally stays out of melee range)
Weapon Focus Longbow
Teamwork Feats:
Escape Route
Shake It Off
Swap Places (available for swapping)
his spells are basic use spells:
0
Create Water
Detect Magic
Disrupt Undead
Guidance
Light
Stabilize
1
Alarm
Divine Favor (uses every combat when available)
Lend Judgment (uses if paladin's vindicator shield falls.)
Shield of Faith
True Strike (+20 to hit on one arrow... has saved me many a time)
2
Darkness (he cant see in darkness unless he BotM's himself)
Invisibility
Remove Paralysis
See Invisibility
3
Blessing of the Mole (great spell)
Dispel Magic
Remove Disease
Searing Light (high AC undead enemy? BURN IT WITH FIRE!)
4
Invisibility (Greater) (op)
Stoneskin (JIC)
my main weapon is a +2 Holy Adaptive Composite Longbow so theres that.
Ok, I would say you are kinda at the break point. Either way is reasonable.
Personally I would stick with inquisitor. But you are mostly an archer with some buff utility spells. So a case can be made to take fighter. But I don't think dodge or toughness are the best choices for an archer. I would only consider it with more archer feats.
At your level, a belt of con is very cheap to get the hp and fort save. Just +1 on the to hit roll doesn't seem worth it unless you are missing alot. Has that been a problem such that a +1 will make a huge difference?
Ok, I would say you are kinda at the break point. Either way is reasonable.
Personally I would stick with inquisitor. But you are mostly an archer with some buff utility spells. So a case can be made to take fighter. But I don't think dodge or toughness are the best choices for an archer. I would only consider it with more archer feats.
At your level, a belt of con is very cheap to get the hp and fort save. Just +1 on the to hit roll doesn't seem worth it unless you are missing alot. Has that been a problem such that a +1 will make a huge difference?
It feels to me, particularly the way I'm built, that damage output seems to be the most important aspect for now, and i cant do that if i cant hit, ive been debating with my next couple chunks of income from scenarios picking up a Belt of Physical Might instead of just a belt of dexterity, or Bracers of Archery. only reason i dont have the bracers already is that the bracers i USED to have, that were leagues better than the BoA, are being errated, and as such are not legal for pfs currently so i had to sell them back (full refund though so theres that...)
If you go inquistor, I'd look into Enfilading Fire as the teamwork feat you would be able to pick up. Just hope you play with people that utilize flanking bonuses.