What buffs and magic items can a lvl 20 npc following npc WBL have?
What can the lvl20 npc do to kill or permanently disable a lone lvl 20 PC when the npc does not know the pc's level.
And the same for the PC. I doubt the challenge is much different for a martial or caster PC.
1. Where was it stated that it was NPC vs PC?
2. Why would a caster rely on knowing someone's level? If someone is trying to kill him, that is all he should need to know.
What buffs and magic items can a lvl 20 npc following npc WBL have?
What can the lvl20 npc do to kill or permanently disable a lone lvl 20 PC when the npc does not know the pc's level.
And the same for the PC. I doubt the challenge is much different for a martial or caster PC.
1. Where was it stated that it was NPC vs PC?
2. Why would a caster rely on knowing someone's level? If someone is trying to kill him, that is all he should need to know.
It was a party of adventurers (sans spell casters) vs a BBEG (the Lich). I think most people would consider the Lich to be an NPC.
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Just my way of thinking...if I'm playing a 20th level fighter that's pretty smart...and he understands liches...and he knows he's going up against one (all assumptions, mind you, but it seems fair), I'm going to see if I can't get a handle on where that phylactery is before I go for the lich. If I can figure that out, and get to it, one of two things will happen - either I get it, or the lich comes to stop me. (Again, I feel it's safe to assume that I have a pretty good chance against anything guarding the phylactery, if I'm going after a lich.)
Once the phylactery is in my control, the battlefield is a lot more level.
Yes, a lot of DMs will just assume I can't get that information...why can't I pay to have divinations cast? If I need to be teleported in, I can pay for that, too. What I'm getting at here is that one goes after the weakness, and even if the lvl 20 martial character can't do it himself, by default, the spells should be available.
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Just my way of thinking...if I'm playing a 20th level fighter that's pretty smart...and he understands liches...and he knows he's going up against one (all assumptions, mind you, but it seems fair), I'm going to see if I can't get a handle on where that phylactery is before I go for the lich. If I can figure that out, and get to it, one of two things will happen - either I get it, or the lich comes to stop me. (Again, I feel it's safe to assume that I have a pretty good chance against anything guarding the phylactery, if I'm going after a lich.)
Once the phylactery is in my control, the battlefield is a lot more level.
Yes, a lot of DMs will just assume I can't get that information...why can't I pay to have divinations cast? If I need to be teleported in, I can pay for that, too. What I'm getting at here is that one goes after the weakness, and even if the lvl 20 martial character can't do it himself, by default, the spells should be available.
You have to ignore some posters on these boards because the moment a fighter needs help with something there is a fault with the class but when that wizard needs help, which is more than these people will admit, then it's not even mentioned.
Edit: Oh yeah.
And they have just the right spell memorized, all creatures huddle in clumps, everything fails it's save, and they get about 500 actions per round.
It was a party of adventurers (sans spell casters) vs a BBEG (the Lich). I think most people would consider the Lich to be an NPC.What buffs and magic items can a lvl 20 npc following npc WBL have?
What can the lvl20 npc do to kill or permanently disable a lone lvl 20 PC when the npc does not know the pc's level.
And the same for the PC. I doubt the challenge is much different for a martial or caster PC.
1. Where was it stated that it was NPC vs PC?
2. Why would a caster rely on knowing someone's level? If someone is trying to kill him, that is all he should need to know.
That is a nice assumption, but the OP only said character A vs character B. For all we know they could both be NPC's.
Just my way of thinking...if I'm playing a 20th level fighter that's pretty smart...and he understands liches...and he knows he's going up against one (all assumptions, mind you, but it seems fair), I'm going to see if I can't get a handle on where that phylactery is before I go for the lich. If I can figure that out, and get to it, one of two things will happen - either I get it, or the lich comes to stop me. (Again, I feel it's safe to assume that I have a pretty good chance against anything guarding the phylactery, if I'm going after a lich.)
Once the phylactery is in my control, the battlefield is a lot more level.
Yes, a lot of DMs will just assume I can't get that information...why can't I pay to have divinations cast? If I need to be teleported in, I can pay for that, too. What I'm getting at here is that one goes after the weakness, and even if the lvl 20 martial character can't do it himself, by default, the spells should be available.
That is a good idea, but I think the OP's point was based on taking the lich down once, or probably any caster poor BAB for that matter.
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That is a good idea, but I think the OP's point was based on taking the lich down once, or probably any caster poor BAB for that matter.Just my way of thinking...if I'm playing a 20th level fighter that's pretty smart...and he understands liches...and he knows he's going up against one (all assumptions, mind you, but it seems fair), I'm going to see if I can't get a handle on where that phylactery is before I go for the lich. If I can figure that out, and get to it, one of two things will happen - either I get it, or the lich comes to stop me. (Again, I feel it's safe to assume that I have a pretty good chance against anything guarding the phylactery, if I'm going after a lich.)
Once the phylactery is in my control, the battlefield is a lot more level.
Yes, a lot of DMs will just assume I can't get that information...why can't I pay to have divinations cast? If I need to be teleported in, I can pay for that, too. What I'm getting at here is that one goes after the weakness, and even if the lvl 20 martial character can't do it himself, by default, the spells should be available.
Do you really?
How does a 20th barbarian/fighter/ranger/etc, deal with the world of high level play? Essentially, according to the game, a party of martials should be able to take on a single 20th level wizard lich, But how could they? consider the following example:
Yes I do really. Now he may not have meant one combat in the case of the lich but he never spoke against the idea. If he meant completely taking the lick down then finding that phylactery before the fight has to be done. If the fighter is on a team with other characters then he does not have to worry about it as much because he has people that will be better at finding it.
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Yes I do really. Now he may not have meant one combat in the case of the lich but he never spoke against the idea. If he meant completely taking the lick down then finding that phylactery before the fight has to be done. If the fighter is on a team with other characters then he does not have to worry about it as much because he has people that will be better at finding it.
Well, what he stated was a party of martials...so I really don't see one on one...and it looks to me like more of a general question...'how do they deal with the world of higher level play' rather than a specific tactic. so I was showing that there are resources outside of your own.
I guess I see your interpretation, but I'm putting up what I see as pertinent information that does address what's in that quote.
as far as i am concerned.
a martially inclined oracle or martially inclined 3/4 BAB 2/3 Caster is martial enough to qualify. a few of those in the martial group can help make beating the lich easier.
oracles can learn plane shift, bards and a variety of 3/4 caster classes can learn dispel and the like. at that level, greater dispel would remove about 5 or 6 buffs at once.
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Oh, and if you want an example of a high-intelligence fighter, might I suggest Roy Greenhilt from the Order of the Stick webcomic for inspiration?
epic... just epic..
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the casts time stop, delayed blast fireball twice, timed to coincide with time stop endingNeed a rod of maximize to get a predictable duration for a timestop ... also personally I have always been the opinion that the delay on the delayed blast fireballs is in entire rounds, so they can only go off one round after the timestop ends.
Any way, the purpose of martials is to be a direct damage rocket launcher ... a high level martial should be able to kill anything in a single full attack when it is stripped of defences.
So your caster buddies catch the litch in a disjunction or AMF and you kill it.
That rod will cost you 121,000 gp unless you make it.
And even with the feat, it will cost almost 10% of the WBL of a 20th level PC.
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This thread is like a game of Word Disassociation.
One says "High level fighter", and people respond "Balor-summoning minutia."
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Hmm. I always thought that any attempt to cast spells on the creature in a summoning diagram was breaching the circle as assuredly as stepping on it. He can't cast on you, and you can't cast on him. There's only a very few specific spells historically which could be cast to violate those, and they were 1E. I don't see anything allowing spells to breach the circle in PF.
In short, you cast Geas on the balor, he roars and charges you, picking the coin up between his toes with his first step out of the circle and his 28 Dex and not slowing down.
If not, then some multiple chained and very reasonable sounding suggestion spells might have some highly comical effects.
It comes down to...you can't do anything to the trapped creature that it in turn could not do back to you. There's nothing in the planar binding language that allows you to charm, dominate, curse, geas, or otherwise cast spells on your trapped potential minion. Doing so has always been considered a breach of the circle.
A pure 20th level martial alone can potentially kill the lich if he gets suprise and a full attack...that's how much damage they do.
Tracking down the phylactery is a matter of asking the gods where it is. It is extremely difficult to hide things from higher powers. And the thing is, if you bury it somewhere thinking no one will find it, all sorts of things can happen to it because you aren't there to defend it. And if it IS defended...you just attracted attention to it.
Phylacteries are a real drag against high level parties who WILL make it a priority to go find them.
I will note that in 1E, if you magically treated a black star sapphire, it neutralized all chronomancy spells in a 60' radius. Quite the bummer for mages dependent on time Stop.
You can't Shrink Item on an enclosure, or basically anything big enough to cover you. Do the math. The Volume the thing encloses is far beyond the spell limits. So the Anti-magic defense does not work, either.
And why in the world would a lich be walking around with something that an accidental spell could cause to come into being and crash down on whatever he's doing at the moment?
Plus, what wizard memorizes 3 time stops a day? heh. Unless they know enemies are coming and they've got a specific strategy.
==Aelryinth
Hmm. I always thought that any attempt to cast spells on the creature in a summoning diagram was breaching the circle as assuredly as stepping on it.
This is very reasonable to me, but I can't find any rules support for it in 3.5 or PF. Maybe breaching the circle can be a good FAQ topic though.
There's two aspects to consider: how to find the wizard, and what the wizard is doing. If the wizard merely wishes to be undisturbed, finding him can be nearly impossible, since he can be on his own realm surrounded by layers of nondetection spells.
But you know, that's boring. Who cares if our mage just did around in his private world polishing his Staff of Power. For conflict, for a reason to fight him, the diseased needs to interact with the Prime Material, and them even if he's astral projecting, he can be badly hurt and defeated. Maybe.
The key question is, what is our wizard doing? What is his goal? Is he leading a hobgoblin army to conquer the world? Is he trying to assemble the Rod of Seven Parts? Our it's he trying to blot out the sun and open a permanent portal to the Abyss? Based on what the wizard is trying to do, we cam figure out what our team of adventurers needs to do to stop him.
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Hmm. I always thought that any attempt to cast spells on the creature in a summoning diagram was breaching the circle as assuredly as stepping on it. He can't cast on you, and you can't cast on him. There's only a very few specific spells historically which could be cast to violate those, and they were 1E. I don't see anything allowing spells to breach the circle in PF.
In short, you cast Geas on the balor, he roars and charges you, picking the coin up between his toes with his first step out of the circle and his 28 Dex and not slowing down.
If not, then some multiple chained and very reasonable sounding suggestion spells might have some highly comical effects.
It comes down to...you can't do anything to the trapped creature that it in turn could not do back to you. There's nothing in the planar binding language that allows you to charm, dominate, curse, geas, or otherwise cast spells on your trapped potential minion. Doing so has always been considered a breach of the circle.
Neither Magic Circle against <alignment>, Magic, Conjuration Magic, Calling Magic, the specific wording on the warding diagram, or any line of text in the planar binding chain insinuates that casting spells on the trapped creature breaks the trap.
I admit, I have not played 1e, so I defer to your experience of that spell, in that system, but in pathfinder, your only worry is disturbing the warding diagram, that is, the physical diagram you've created on the floor.
So if you cast geas on the Balor, either its spell resistance negates your spell, or the Balor has to suck it up.
You can't Shrink Item on an enclosure, or basically anything big enough to cover you. Do the math. The Volume the thing encloses is far beyond the spell limits. So the Anti-magic defense does not work, either.
This statement has no basis in the rules, at all.
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There's two aspects to consider: how to find the wizard, and what the wizard is doing. If the wizard merely wishes to be undisturbed, finding him can be nearly impossible, since he can be on his own realm surrounded by layers of nondetection spells.
But you know, that's boring. Who cares if our mage just did around in his private world polishing his Staff of Power. For conflict, for a reason to fight him, the diseased needs to interact with the Prime Material, and them even if he's astral projecting, he can be badly hurt and defeated. Maybe.The key question is, what is our wizard doing? What is his goal? Is he leading a hobgoblin army to conquer the world? Is he trying to assemble the Rod of Seven Parts? Our it's he trying to blot out the sun and open a permanent portal to the Abyss? Based on what the wizard is trying to do, we cam figure out what our team of adventurers needs to do to stop him.
Pretty much this.
If he wants to hole up and just study magic forever, who cares?
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You can't Shrink Item on an enclosure, or basically anything big enough to cover you. Do the math. The Volume the thing encloses is far beyond the spell limits. So the Anti-magic defense does not work, either.This statement has no basis in the rules, at all.
I think he is going by math+rules. I have not done the math though.
My party attacks while the Lich has to prepare his spells. Did my martial party win the fight?
1/4000th...That is a lot. I did not read the spell description. In that case he might need to back that up with a rules quote or some match.
I've been thinking about how martials fit into the game at high levels. In games which reach high levels the whole system changes. I've only played into the upper levels once, with a loremaster wizard, and boy was it different. Scry and fry, major teleport shenanigans, Contingency spells, two wizards and a cleric casting about 5-6 spells a round between them, clones and so on and so forth.
How does a 20th barbarian/fighter/ranger/etc, deal with the world of high level play? Essentially, according to the game, a party of martials should be able to take on a single 20th level wizard lich, But how could they? consider the following example:
Assume that somehow they find the lich in the first place, They enter the room and then, 1, the casts time stop, delayed blast fireball twice, timed to coincide with time stop ending, casts teleport, arrives, fireballs go off, casts every buff (repulsion, stoneskin, invisibility statue, etc) on himself, casts time stop again, greater teleports back to adventurers, casts summon monster 8 twice, time stop ends, opens with dominate person followed by quickened dominate person and then combat begins.
If they somehow manage to actually injure him, a contingency spell will likely whisk him off to safety, if they somehow manage to kill him, then they have 1d10 IIRC days before he's back and pissed. Since his phylactery is probably on another plane. Either way he can hunt them with magic at his leisure, taking out one at a time when they're least ready for it.
So my question is basically what does a 20th level fighter do in the face of this kind of opposition, from an in character point of view? Do 20th level fighters even exist? How would they see themselves from an in character perspective? How would they protect themselves from these sort of shenanigans?
Lich is not only a caster, is a big fat monster hard to kill.
By the way,you can fix that. Your example is perfect. First, this is an high magic campaign, so martial characters should have a good magic equipment. With a party of 4 or 5 at least one of them should be able to act before the lich and put him into trouble. Time stop can be interrupted. With the right feats fighter can stick at the lich and interrupt his spells.This using raw, but i suggest you to examine every game breaking spell and fix it. Why? Every spell is an exception to rules basically, so in a game where people can't fly the spell fly put an exception, and so on. Time stop is too strong? Ok, you can't cast a time stop during a time stop. This is even more true for NPC or monster. If a wizard use this insane combo the next encounter he will probably not be able to do it again.
Another example? Druid shift in an hearth elemental, cast fire seeds (n) time, walk into earth till he reach the martial party, swift shift in a fire elemental and active the seeds. It's a ton of damage. In this example you should not allow multiple casting of this spell.
You are running a low magic campaign? If full caster classes are allowed not all spells should be allowed. No create demiplane, teleport, etc. People will not thrust you, and probably you should put penalties for authority. Casting is even legal? This will be compensated by the fact that people don't know how to deal with a caster. In a high magic campaign almost everyone should be able to identify spells, and spellcraft should be a class skill for everyone.
If you manage to balance issues like this, you will find some interesting things. Actually, a fighter alone will be in trouble facing a lich or a monster with high magic abilities, but a caster will have problem, too. So they will be forced to work togheter. If your party is only martial, only caster, or unable to cooperate, they would not be able to face high challenging monsters.
Regarding high level roleplay or out of combat play i suggest some tips.
For example, there are feats that gives bonuses when using siege weapons. Give it free for fighters, or let people with profession soldier use it with a check. Create martial schools, martial orders and so on. A lot of people complain about the lack of non combat options for martial classes. Remember that with the power level intended by developers (high magic campaing, lot of magic items and money, all spells available), you will have a game like Diablo, more combat oriented, with strange game balance. If you are the strongest adventurer in game, with an insane powerful caster in party, how would you deal with a king? Probably you should be a puppet in your hands.
Encounter will be like "cast one spell with insane DC", or, since blast wizards are not good dmg dealers, "buff the warriors".
But you can give magic items like a low magic setting campaign, like Dragonlance, or Lotr. No need to explain. Try that. Just be careful with encounters :)
By the way, how much stone could a 20 level fighter break using a adamantine weapon? I do not think the trick give the lich much time, specially if we asumme multiple martials.
Yes, you are quite correct, that the anti-magic defense does not, usually, protect against a level 20 martial, all that long. Unless pains have been taken to have the enclosure custom-forged from steel, before casting shrink item. Which on that level is totally doable, but let's not go there :)
However, since it turns to its original size immediately once the anti-magic field hits the caster, the emmanation effect gets blocked, meaning things like a teleport or dimension door contingency gets to go off, if prepared :)
I have doubts.
I ca not find anything in the rules, but what happens if the object do not fit perfectly?
For example the lich is in a hallway of 2,5 m high x 3 m widht. but the object is 3m x 3m.
a)Would the object stop growing when he reach the roof or
b) wouldit keep growing no matter what?
If a) is correct then as AMF is an emanation the lich would be caught in it.
This is not clarified in the rules, and I have seen no dev response to it. So until there's been an official ruling, this would be a GM call.
It is also a matter of how you chose to theme the spell from a narrative standpoint I guess, again GM territory. If you decide that, once the anti-magic field hits, the spell stops, and the item slowly expands to its original size, then you have basis for one ruling. If you rule that the object simply instantly returns to its original size, then there is basis for another ruling.
If you chose to go with the object expanding, I'd rule that it is a matter of what is expanded and where. The item would continue to expand to its original size, so either the shrunk item would break/yield or whatever is blocking it would.
This is just me eyeballing the issues, though :)
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I see two ways to approach being a high level martial when casters are perceived as being more powerful:
1) honest underdog, hero of the people type
2) action movie hero versus evil villain what has lots of genius
As for why character(s) wouldn't have taken caster levels if talent was there -- probably different for everyone but there's something about the satisfaction of physical skill versus studying a tome to cheat the laws of the universe.
I see two ways to approach being a high level martial when casters are perceived as being more powerful:
1) honest underdog, hero of the people type
2) action movie hero versus evil villain what has lots of genius
As for why character(s) wouldn't have taken caster levels if talent was there -- probably different for everyone but there's something about the satisfaction of physical skill versus studying a tome to cheat the laws of the universe.
Huh what? I thought this was supposed to be a rules thread about liches.
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range touch
Target one touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
Duration 1 day/level; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (object); Spell Resistance yes (object)
Note the Volume...one touched object of up to 2 cu feet/level.
This means the Volume BEFORE you touch it, not after.
So that 2 x 3 x 6 foot enclosure you'd need to be an 18th level caster to get off. Furthermore, you're assuming it's going to come down equally on all sides of you and not be leaning to one side or the other. Technically speaking, you can't do it unless it's a 5 x 5 x 6 enclosure, completely surrounding your space, but I'd go with 3x3, else you're likely to knock it over as it unshrinks.
Yes, you can make it very small. It doesn't mean something sizable is easy to shrink down.
Plus, you have to spend a slot every few days to recast it, AND it's subject to dispel funs. I can see it slamming down on top of you when you're in midair, and that would be no fun for you.
Also, if someone comes up and grapples you and starts an A-Mshell, you've just become pinned.
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Ah ha. A creature's ranged attacks, spells, and spell like abilities can be used across the warding.
So, the balor casts geas on you telling you to come pick up his sword, and smiles at you. Or maybe telekinesis you forward and drags you across the warding diagram.
You aren't safe from their spells if they aren't safe from yours.
The creature could use magic to retrieve the coin and satisfy the geas.
They are simply bound in place, they are not helpless. And that could be an extremely dangerous situation to be in for any caster.
==Aelryinth
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Note the Volume...one touched object of up to 2 cu feet/level.
This means the Volume BEFORE you touch it, not after.
Meaning that at 10th level, I can shrink an object 10 cubic feet in size. That's around the size of an outhouse. Take the floorboards out, take the roof out, reinforce the sides, and there you go. Again, this spell works fine for the purpose I describe, Aelryinth.
you're assuming it's going to come down equally on all sides of you and not be leaning to one side or the other. Technically speaking, you can't do it unless it's a 5 x 5 x 6 enclosure, completely surrounding your space, but I'd go with 3x3, else you're likely to knock it over as it unshrinks.
Yes, you can make it very small. It doesn't mean something sizable is easy to shrink down.
You know, if I wanted to, I could make up rules regarding spells as well.
How about this: "You cast a fireball? Well since the fireball needs to travel the distance from you, to your target, a butterfly gets in the way of the fireball's travelling arc, just 5 feet in front of you, and the fireball hits it, exploding in your face. Roll reflex save".
We're talking about the mechanics of a spell here. There is nothing in the rules backing your claims of the object leaning on one side, or knocking the object over while it "unshrinks". These things might seem well and good from a thematic perspective, but they are still GM fiat, overriding the usefulness of the spell, and screwing the player who was creative enough to use it.
Ah ha. A creature's ranged attacks, spells, and spell like abilities can be used across the warding.
So, the balor casts geas on you telling you to come pick up his sword, and smiles at you. Or maybe telekinesis you forward and drags you across the warding diagram.
You aren't safe from their spells if they aren't safe from yours.
The creature could use magic to retrieve the coin and satisfy the geas.
They are simply bound in place, they are not helpless. And that could be an extremely dangerous situation to be in for any caster.
*sigh*
...First you take 20, making the warding diagram, before casting Magic Circle against Evil.
...your only worry is disturbing the warding diagram, that is, the physical diagram you've created on the floor.
...the specific wording on the warding diagram
...Warding diagram
"hmmm... Warding Diagram? I wonder what he means?" /reads planar binding.
"Oh! it says here that..."
To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell, focused inward.
"... I better read up on the Magic Circle spells as well." /reads the Magic Circle spells.
"AH! I FOUND IT! I knew it had to mean something, when some guy, who consistently quotes the rules, had made repeated mentions of it! Here it is, the aforementioned diagram! It says..."
You can add a special diagram (a two-dimensional bounded figure with no gaps along its circumference, augmented with various magical sigils) to make the magic circle more secure. Drawing the diagram by hand takes 10 minutes and requires a DC 20 Spellcraft check. You do not know the result of this check. If the check fails, the diagram is ineffective. You can take 10 when drawing the diagram if you are under no particular time pressure to complete the task. This task also takes 10 full minutes. If time is no factor at all, and you devote 3 hours and 20 minutes to the task, you can take 20.
A successful diagram allows you to cast a dimensional anchor spell on the magic circle during the round before casting any summoning spell. The anchor holds any called creatures in the magic circle for 24 hours per caster level. A creature cannot use its Spell Resistance against a magic circle prepared with a diagram, and none of its abilities or attacks can cross the diagram. If the creature tries a Charisma check to break free of the trap (see the lesser planar binding spell), the DC increases by 5. The creature is immediately released if anything disturbs the diagram - even a straw laid across it. The creature itself cannot disturb the diagram either directly or indirectly, as noted above.
"...Well, that explains so much. It appears that magnificent bastard, Nearyn, was right all along."
Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
GI JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEE!!!!
-Nearyn
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Why are you still discussing the Geas anyway?
Unholy Holy aura protects a Balor from a Geas.
??? Hire a neutral caster, or be neutral, problem solved?
granting them resistance to spells cast by good creatures,
Not that part. This part:
Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person). This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
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Why are you still discussing the Geas anyway?
Unholy Holy aura protects a Balor from a Geas.
Assuming of course that I am good to begin with. Even if I am not, I shall just have to have a casting of geas commissioned from a neutral source and BOOM, no unholy aura protection for you. At 20th level, getting hold of such an an item will not present a challenge.
Please stop not reading the rules, before making claims, Shallowsoul.
The abjuration protects the subjects from possession and mental influence, just as protection from good does
This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks made by good creatures
...Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person). This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion
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aaaand I repeat
Assuming of course that I am good to begin with. Even if I am not, I shall just have to have a casting of geas commissioned from a neutral source and BOOM, no unholy aura protection for you.
So, just to iterate, Geas works fine on a Balor. Stop making up rules.
-Nearyn
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Why are you still discussing the Geas anyway?
Unholy Holy aura protects a Balor from a Geas.
Assuming of course that I am good to begin with. Even if I am not, I shall just have to have a casting of geas commissioned from a neutral source and BOOM, no unholy aura protection for you. At 20th level, getting hold of such an an item will not present a challenge.Please stop not reading the rules, before making claims, Shallowsoul.
The abjuration protects the subjects from possession and mental influence, just as protection from good doesThis spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks made by good creatures...Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person). This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
aaaand I repeat
Assuming of course that I am good to begin with. Even if I am not, I shall just have to have a casting of geas commissioned from a neutral source and BOOM, no unholy aura...
Good point.
stuffGood point...
Thanks alot mate, I try. :)
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This isn't going to work anyway because Magic Circle Against Evil is a good descriptor spell and I don't think an evil lich can cast it.
Also, let's say he could cast it, even though he has created a binding circle it is still a Protection from Evil spell so the Protection from Mind effects would still be given to the Balor. All he would need to do is drop the Unholy Aura as a free action and gain the benefits of the Protection from Evil from the magic circle.
Edit: Basically even though you've trapped it, you are giving it protection at the same time. I think that is why the Planer Binding spell talks so much about needing to make charisma checks to persuade it.
20th level Fighter vs 20th level NPC Wizard (Average CR 19 Encounter) I find the fighter wins more often than not.
All the fighter needs to beat the wizard is a caster cohort and the fighter has enough feats to pick leadership with every build other martials may pick this too but they don't need to as much. Also I find after spending about 400,000 gp I have most everything I need as fighter so I can top up my cohort with the rest. So fighter with his 17th level caster is buffing/debuffing and controlling the battle field making for a bad day for the enemy wizard. The enemy Wizard may be higher level the cohort wizard but the cohort has 4 times the wealth.
Now Player vs Player the wizard wins most of the time due to more optimization. NPC are not optimized. If you do optimize the NPC I think the CR should go up by 1. The main reason is if I optimize a wizard I optimize them for 1 fight. I don't have to worry about the next encounter like a player does with an optimized character so mine is much more powerful in the GM chair.