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RPG Superstar 2015

The loss of two beloved factions [mild spoilers]


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So...John, Mike, and Mark have requested we just have one thread for each of the major topics.

I'm going to jump on this one. Two factions are getting the boot.

Lantern Lodge - which will have their scenario where they end as Way of the Kirin. This will end the lodge as a PC option (they will continue to exist as their own non PC faction).

Shadow Lodge - the specifics are still secret, but they will end with the scenario Rivalries End. They alluded that this will be a significant game changer for the faction (where they may or may not continue to exist as a non-PC option).

Fun stuff!

They also clarified that scenarios starting in Season 5 will no longer have "faction missions" with handouts. Rather, the scenarios will become much more like this year's Cheliax arcs, where a goal for the faction will be there for the entire scenario and there may be a faction specific reward at the end of the scenario.

Silver Crusade ***

One other thing they mentioned is that if you play a member of those factions in the scenarios where the faction comes to an end, you'll get a special boon. At least, they said that for Lantern Lodge specifically. I was a little unclear about whether or not that also applies to Shadow Lodge. Since my Shadow Lodge PC is already double the maximum level for that adventure, though, I definitely won't be eligible for that one.

Dark Archive *

One beloved faction...

Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fromper wrote:
One other thing they mentioned is that if you play a member of those factions in the scenarios where the faction comes to an end, you'll get a special boon. At least, they said that for Lantern Lodge specifically. I was a little unclear about whether or not that also applies to Shadow Lodge. Since my Shadow Lodge PC is already double the maximum level for that adventure, though, I definitely won't be eligible for that one.

Mark and John clarified that you will be able to apply the chronicle as a GM chronicle to a character out-of-tier.

Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Oncoming_Storm wrote:
One beloved faction...

I was thinking it, but you said it.

Shadow Lodge ***

Agreed. Lantern Lodge I fully understand. But Shadow Lodge?

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

What was stated to happen to characters of those factions? I missed this part of the podcast.

Grand Lodge **** Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

2 people marked this as a favorite.

As someone who has a level 11 Lantern Lodge character, I'm keen to find out how my character gets access to the retirement chronicle for Way of the Kirin.

I assume it'll be that I GM it, ignore the prestige and gold on the chronicle, and just apply the retirement boon - like a holiday boon?

EDIT: Another thing - the loss of the Lantern Lodge suggests a big signal light that the Pathfinder Society won't be going back to Tian Xia anytime soon. I hope that isn't the case, because it's a great setting that got stifled by the Hao Jin Tapestry and never fully got a chance to shine.

Scarab Sages **** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Buford aka bartgroks

Yiroep wrote:
What was stated to happen to characters of those factions? I missed this part of the podcast.

They have to move to another faction before season 5. No prestige loss and you keep your old faction trait if you had one.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I just started playing a few months ago and now all my characters will lose their faction... :(

Grand Lodge *

Now I have to find another faction that I feel fits with my goals, not that my alignment matched Shadow Lodge anyway.

** Star Voter 2014

Good bye black flames.

Lantern Lodge ***

I might make this simple suggestion for consideration regarding playing the faction wrap-up scenarios for characters who are out of tier:

1). Allow a player who GMs the scenario to apply it to a single character of the appropriate faction, even if that character is out of tier, for partial credit. Partial credit meaning XP no, GP no, fame/prestige yes, boons yes.

2). Allow out of tier characters of the appropriate faction to play the scenario and receive partial credit along the lines of the above.

I feel something along these lines would be fair, and it would be a true shame if we did not get to participate in our faction's goodbye scenario just because we happen to have put a lot of time into those characters and are 16th level.

Shadow Lodge **

In the original announcement's comments, there was also mention of faction-specific boon for members of the faction(s) that complete their season's mission:

Shivok wrote:
So will a 'Boon' of sorts or some benefit go to the faction who completes their Season 4 mission?
Mark Moreland wrote:
Yes. Several, in fact. Which one a faction gets will depend on how successful it is at attaining its goals.
Michael Brock wrote:
We are still discussing 3-4 ways that would be best for distribution of faction boons and will disclose those at a later time. At this point, I'm leaning toward only allowing characters in their factions that played at least one scenario in that season, to receive the boom. They would not be retroactive. So, if you played your Andoran character in one or more Season 4 scenarios, and Andoran completed their faction missions and goal with 100% success, all Andoran characters recorded to have played a Season 4 scenario between Gen Con 2012 and Aug. 1 (or whatever the day before Gen Con starts) would receive the Andoran faction boon. Any new Andoran who that starts play in Season 5 would have a new faction goal and Season 5 scenarios would be put toward counting toward Season 5. He would not be able to receive the Andoran boon from Season 4 because he took no part in achieving Season 4's goal. However, he can still play Season 0-4 scenarios, receive a Chronicle sheet, and enjoy the game as normal. He just wouldn't be affecting the metaplot of previous seasons.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
Agreed. Lantern Lodge I fully understand. But Shadow Lodge?

Both factions are heavily tied to specific seasons of PFS. As time goes on, an understanding of why they exist will become more and more muddled. Eliminating them should not have a hug impact on the society. Especially since the decision is based, in part, that their relative membership is dwindling.

Silver Crusade ***

This actually works for my Lantern Lodge PC. He's currently level 2, because I've only played him once and applied two GM credits. I can get him to level 3 in time to play him in Way of the Kirin (3-7), to get the special boon. And I only put him in Lantern Lodge because he's a nagaji from Nagajor, but now that he lives in the Inner Sea, I could see him becoming an ally of one of the other factions instead.

In the case of my Shadow Lodge PC, he's level 14, so I'll probably just keep him in Shadow Lodge, even though it's not legal, since I'll probably never play him again. Then I'll show up at the level 12+ table of a special at GenCon in 2 or 3 years with a Shadow Lodge PC just to see how the GM reacts... :D

Lantern Lodge **

Well this is bad... Why the Lantern Lodge?
The forums for the Singapore PFS, is called the Lantern Lodge.

Not to mention that a large percentage of our characters are Lantern Lodgers.
Given that LL is Asian themed and Singapore is an Asian country.

:(

Silver Crusade ***

Secane wrote:

Well this is bad... Why the Lantern Lodge?

The forums for the Singapore PFS, is called the Lantern Lodge.

Not to mention that a large percentage of our characters are Lantern Lodgers.
Given that LL is Asian themed and Singapore is an Asian country.

:(

These two got cut because they're the least popular factions globally. And I definitely see it in my local groups here in the US. I play with such a wide variety of people that I run into all 10 factions sometimes, but these two are definitely among the least common.

Sczarni ****

Grog sad.

Now must find other faction that not trust masked men.

Dark Archive ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grog Da Half Orc wrote:

Grog sad.

Now must find other faction that not trust masked men.

Join the Sczarni family! We have lots of "friends", but we don't trust anyone.

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

Can we at least keep the symbol beside our names? OOC, I still like the Shadow Lodge ideals.

Lantern Lodge **

Fromper wrote:
Secane wrote:

Well this is bad... Why the Lantern Lodge?

The forums for the Singapore PFS, is called the Lantern Lodge.

Not to mention that a large percentage of our characters are Lantern Lodgers.
Given that LL is Asian themed and Singapore is an Asian country.

:(

These two got cut because they're the least popular factions globally. And I definitely see it in my local groups here in the US. I play with such a wide variety of people that I run into all 10 factions sometimes, but these two are definitely among the least common.

:C

Hope they give Lantern Lodge a good ending. Heard they will become a NPC-faction?

Sczarni **

Azkadellia wrote:
Grog Da Half Orc wrote:

Grog sad.

Now must find other faction that not trust masked men.

Join the Sczarni family! We have lots of "friends", but we don't trust anyone.

Yeah, and you get to smoke drugs with people, and you get to steal treasures like a good pathsearcher, and you get to do lotsa other funs stuffs.

But that Gorilla guy does threaten to beat you up all the time....

Dark Archive ***

Pontificor the Great wrote:
Azkadellia wrote:
Grog Da Half Orc wrote:

Grog sad.

Now must find other faction that not trust masked men.

Join the Sczarni family! We have lots of "friends", but we don't trust anyone.

Yeah, and you get to smoke drugs with people, and you get to steal treasures like a good pathsearcher, and you get to do lotsa other funs stuffs.

But that Gorilla guy does threaten to beat you up all the time....

I don't consume drugs or alcohol. I would never weaken myself that way, even temporarily.

And Guaril doesn't threaten to beat me up. He threatens other people with having me beat them up. "Beat up", in the magical sense, of course. I'm not some powerless thug reliant on muscles and steel like many in the Sczarni "family".

Sczarni **

Gorilla made me once smoke drugs with some guy to help us. I got all light headed, but got to enjoy some amazing cookies afterward!

Well I do not get why he always writes me notes how he is gonna hurt me if i do not do things. I am a good Zarniest. I told Gorilla Care-alot once that if he sends his goons at me I would colorspray them and drawed on their faces.

Liberty's Edge *

So what happens with characters who were in the lost factions? They get a free faction change? Do they have to change?

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

Howie23 wrote:
So what happens with characters who were in the lost factions? They get a free faction change? Do they have to change?

Free faction change, but they must change by August.

***

I can only hope that this change will require a different mandatory $20 softcover MUST HAVE AT THE TABLE book to replace the Society Field Guide.

I would rather have the option to completely rebuild my LL PC (he may have 4 XP instead of 3, which would make it illegal to just go ahead and do it) if the flavor if being ripped out of PFS. The change to a different faction is rather unappealing as there is no other faction that fits the concept. I suppose the answer is to never play the PC again. And to decide if I want to remain part of an OP campaign that seemingly has no idea what it is doing from one moment to the next.

****

Secane wrote:

Well this is bad... Why the Lantern Lodge?

The forums for the Singapore PFS, is called the Lantern Lodge.

:(

Well.. the PFS held in New South Wales, Australia is branded as the "Shadow Lodge"....

Let's see what Venture Captain Al Rigg will do about that...

(my bet's on it retaining its name.)

Silver Crusade ***

Timothy McNeil wrote:

I can only hope that this change will require a different mandatory $20 softcover MUST HAVE AT THE TABLE book to replace the Society Field Guide.

I would rather have the option to completely rebuild my LL PC (he may have 4 XP instead of 3, which would make it illegal to just go ahead and do it) if the flavor if being ripped out of PFS. The change to a different faction is rather unappealing as there is no other faction that fits the concept. I suppose the answer is to never play the PC again. And to decide if I want to remain part of an OP campaign that seemingly has no idea what it is doing from one moment to the next.

Have you played your Lantern Lodge character at level 2? Even if he has 4 xp, if he got there through a module or GM credit, and you only played him as level 1, then it's not too late to legally completely rebuild him. It's only if you've played him at level 2+ that you can't.

And it's not like you can't play an Asian flavored PC who isn't part of the Lantern Lodge. I have a friend who intentionally made two characters from Tian Xia who are brothers - a ninja and a samurai. The ninja is in Lantern Lodge, but the samurai has sworn an oath of loyalty to Taldor. Not sure why he picked Taldor, but it works for him.

In my case, I have a nagaji character from Nagajor (homeland of the nagaji race in southern Tian Xia) who was driven from his home because he was cursed (oracle) and made his way to the Inner Sea in hopes of a fresh start. I had him join the Lantern Lodge, because he's hoping to prove himself honorable enough to return to his home village some day. With the LL disappearing, I could see him just switching to doing good works for the Silver Crusade or even Andoran (despite his lawful alignment) as a way of regaining his honor and becoming a famous hero, still with the long term of goal of being able to return to his home. Or maybe he'll join Qadira, hoping that protecting their trade routes to the east will be good for his reputation in Tian Xia. Or I could consider what I initially thought about doing with him - since he's an oracle cursed to speak Infernal in combat or times of stress, he considered joining Cheliax to help them get their devil "problem" under control, but decided not to when he realized they didn't consider it a problem.

I do agree somewhat with the annoyance of them changing mandatory books in the core assumption - first Seeker of Secrets, then the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and who knows what will be next, but I'm guessing there will be a replacement as of GenCon this year.

But to say they don't know what's going on from one moment to the next just isn't true. They warned us months ago that they were considering cutting some factions, and it would be the least popular factions that got cut. These things seem to be very well planned out in long term story lines, with major changes happening annually at GenCon. Personally, I like that the campaign changes over time, though I'm glad that the biggest changes are only once a year, so we have time to get used to them.

****

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I think that lantern lodge is going to become the pathfinder lodge in Tien. I think it will be a promotion for the faction that results in it no longer being playable.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

I made the comment about the lantern lodge last night...

"IT's like having a faction called 'Inner Sea region.'"

Ignoring the Crusade for a moment (pretty open to join...)

  • Amanandar: PAtriot wanting to see the motherland restored to glory (Taldor) Malcontent to wants to see the ancient ways destabalised (Andoran)
  • Bachuan: Religious seeker who 'suffers an overabundance of faith' (Silver Crusade) Someone who believes the equality bull (Andoran) Aristocratic descendant who fled the re-education camps (Qaderia, or maybe Scarzini if less ethical)
  • Chu Ye: Pro empire follower (Cheliax) Anti-empire follower (Andoran, or maybe Cheliax if they feel Asmodeus is better)
  • Dtang Ma: Hmm, ancient bloodlines? Gravitating towards Osiron or Taldor come to mind.
  • Forest of Spirits: Andoran (for the fey)

    Just some examples of where the 'asian guys' can migrate to/get concepts form.

  • *

    My only character effected is in the middle of Eot10. I have to say, faction missions are leaving a sour taste in my mouth so loosing my faction fits right in.

    Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

    And remember, if you don't like any of the factions, you can always go Grand Lodge. You could even still RP being a LL PC, even though it wouldn't be an official alignment.

    * Star Voter 2013

    First question: Do (SL/LL) characters have to make their free faction change before Paizocon or Gencon? What date?

    Second Question: If we play Rivalry’s End at Gencon (after the free faction change), will we still get the boon for being a prior Shadow Lodge agent? Or do we have to play it before?

    Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

    Jason S wrote:

    First question: What exact date must the eliminated factions be changed? Before Paizocon or Gencon?

    Second Question: If we play Rivalry’s End at Gencon (after the free faction change), will we still get the boon for being a prior Shadow Lodge agent? Or do we have to play it before?

    1) August 14

    2) No. You have to change factions before Gen Con. Since you have to be SL faction to receive the boon, and SL faction is no longer a legal choice at Gen Con, then your character wouldn't be eligible to take the boon. Please play it before GenCon if you wish to take advantage of the boon.

    * Star Voter 2013

    OK, thanks for the quick response Mike.

    * Star Voter 2013

    Very disappointed at the loss of Shadow Lodge.
    It was one of the things that actually made me start playing in PFS a few months ago.

    -TimD

    Silver Crusade ***

    Lab_Rat wrote:
    My only character effected is in the middle of Eot10. I have to say, faction missions are leaving a sour taste in my mouth so loosing my faction fits right in.

    Having played Eyes of the Ten, I'm guessing your character is Shadow Lodge. The Cheliax faction missions in that one are VERY specific to Cheliax, and really don't translate well to "Grandmaster Torch wants you to help the Paracountess out", even more than usual. I played it with a Shadow Lodge PC, but we also had a Cheliax member in the group, so I mostly just let her deal with the faction missions, though I helped occasionally.

    I also helped a friend with the Taldor faction mission in part 3, which is one of the funniest faction missions ever. Most of our group got involved in that one. And then, we got involved after the scenario in undoing it. There's a really funny story there, but I don't want to give spoilers away in public.

    *

    Will we be seeing Ms. Li?
    I hope so, as Tian still has much to be seen.

    Also, my PC joined the LL because he has a crush on her from First Steps.
    (He was intending to join another faction, but utterly disliked the head of that faction ruining the secrecy of the mission.)
    He is very excited because, in his last mission (not just briefing), he got to interact with her. It'd be a shame to see her go.

    I won't miss the faction, but I will miss the flavor.

    Also, I'm kind of glad Shadow Lodge succeeded enough they don't have to worry about the 10 ON EVERY MISSION.

    I think we lost those factions because they have no intrinsic future.
    Lantern Lodge wanted to establish Tian respectability and trade. Done.
    Shadow Lodge wanted to keep the 10 from abusing Pathfinders. Done-ish.
    Both are just monitoring a status they've achieved, while the other factions have ongoing goals which are more open-ended and dynamic.

    *Sniffle, sniffle* (I'm okay...really...)

    Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

    Castilliano wrote:

    .

    Shadow Lodge wanted to keep the 10 from abusing Pathfinders. Done-ish.

    Have you PLAYED Season 4?

    Scarab Sages ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Spokane

    If you have 2 characters in the same faction of one of the ones going away and play one character in the final scenario for that faction, will I be able to get the special boon for the other character as GM credit (both characters are currently in tier for the scenario)?

    ****

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Well, I might as well throw my hat in the ring for how things might be phased out. I think what was stated above, that Lantern Lodge has completed its main mission and could be turned into the Tien Lodge sounds like a great idea!

    As for Shadow Lodge; during Rivalry's End; perhaps Grandmaster Torch succeeds in eradicating the rogue Shadow Lodge members, or in revealing that the Aspis Consortium was actually behind the entire rebellion. By bringing to pass such a huge success, Torch is promoted to the Decemvirate, thus cementing a permanent spot from which he can make sure they don't abuse the Pathfinders? That, or he dies. Whatever happens, I look forward to how it will end! (And yes, I do have a Shadow Lodge PC). I enjoy seeing PFS grow and change during the seasons, instead of remaining too stagnant.

    Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka WalterGM

    Interesting info... Curious question time: does a PC have to belong to a faction? I have an almost retired Shadow Lodge character. It would be most out of character for him to fold into any of the current factions... I would be fine getting effectively half prestige for the rest of his adventuring life... does he need to have a faction after August 14 to be playable?

    The Exchange ****

    Walter Sheppard wrote:
    Interesting info... Curious question time: does a PC have to belong to a faction? I have an almost retired Shadow Lodge character. It would be most out of character for him to fold into any of the current factions... I would be fine getting effectively half prestige for the rest of his adventuring life... does he need to have a faction after August 14 to be playable?

    Can you run a character that does not have a faction?.

    well, when I asked this, a number of people were happy to explain why this was a bad idea... I still like it though.

    ***

    So to get this right, the only way to get the boon for an out of tier PC is to Gm it? Because my Shadow Lodge PC just hit 8.. :(

    Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

    Afraid so, Red. On the plus side, you probably have time to build a SL PC up to the point where they can play in this before August.

    ***

    Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

    For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

    Scarab Sages ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Spokane

    Amazing Red wrote:
    So to get this right, the only way to get the boon for an out of tier PC is to Gm it? Because my Shadow Lodge PC just hit 8.. :(

    I believe that is the case if your character is out of tier but keep in mind the final word has not be dropped for out of tier characters.

    Silver Crusade ***

    Walter Sheppard wrote:
    Interesting info... Curious question time: does a PC have to belong to a faction? I have an almost retired Shadow Lodge character. It would be most out of character for him to fold into any of the current factions... I would be fine getting effectively half prestige for the rest of his adventuring life... does he need to have a faction after August 14 to be playable?

    My Shadow Lodge PC is level 14, and I don't know if I'll ever play him again. He met Grandmaster Torch on his very first mission (First Steps, part 3), and the fact that Torch has been his mentor ever since has played a large part in his life story. If the Shadow Lodge ends with Torch's death, and this were a home campaign, my barbarian would take up the mantle as the new leader for the Shadow Lodge so it wouldn't have to close its doors, even if that meant becoming an NPC. Since it's not a home campaign, and I don't even know if Torch will die (my prediction is that he's going to become one of the Decemvirate, but without a mask), that's obviously not possible.

    I will not be choosing a new faction for Mash, even if an opportunity to play him again happens to come up in the future. This would probably mean being recorded as Grand Lodge in whatever future module/special I end up playing him in, which is fine.

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