i am trying to convince my cousin to play pathfinder. but her issues are that
despite being a decent mathematician with excellent visual learning ability she has
difficulty memorizing things due to her dyslexia
difficulty retaining verbal cues
difficulty processing a bunch of options
a hard time reading certain complex words
a love for such colorful and excellent anime as Gunslinger Girl, Claymore, Moonphase, Karasu, and Black Rock Shooter
a lack of self esteem
is easy to frustrate due to setting herself up for failure
what i need is an easy to play 10th level 25 point character with 2 traits that is all about passive bonuses and ease of play, with as few options or complexities as possible and as few weapon changes as possible while being an effective contributor to a party of 12 player characters.
Claymore is a good place to start. Hot chick, big sword.
What you're asking for here is plainly a fighter whose feats are concentrated around bonuses with weapons (Wpn Focus, Wpn Specialization; take an Exotic Wpn). Don't know why you NEED traits to play the game - that would be complicating things unnecessarily. The game works wonderfully well without that option.
I think your real problem is going to be the fact there are 11 other players (or at least that many PCs) at the table. That's a huge, messy, frustratingly slow distraction.
Claymore is a good place to start. Hot chick, big sword.
What you're asking for here is plainly a fighter whose feats are concentrated around bonuses with weapons (Wpn Focus, Wpn Specialization; take an Exotic Wpn). Don't know why you NEED traits to play the game - that would be complicating things unnecessarily. The game works wonderfully well without that option.
I think your real problem is going to be the fact there are 11 other players (or at least that many PCs) at the table. That's a huge, messy, frustratingly slow distraction.
the traits are something used at the game table.
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Seconding a 12 PC problem. If your player is of the socially impaired type, you're potentially setting yourself up for her getting lost and confused in all of this, *especially* given that you're planning to run level 10 characters, which at this point usually have bucketloads of options.
If your player is of the "don't overwhelm me" type, I'd recommend to start with something small and low, and gradually work up from there.
Seconding a 12 PC problem. If your player is of the socially impaired type, you're potentially setting yourself up for her getting lost and confused in all of this, *especially* given that you're planning to run level 10 characters, which at this point usually have bucketloads of options.
If your player is of the "don't overwhelm me" type, I'd recommend to start with something small and low, and gradually work up from there.
just for simplicity, i am going to show her a claymore inspired greatsword/longbow fighter. not quite optimized, but effective enough at melee while having 2 options.
fire a bow, or swing a sword.
With self esteem issues, don't set her up with a gimp character.
With self esteem issues, don't set her up with a gimp character.
Swing a Greatsword Twice a Round at +18/+13 for 2d6+26
or fire a longbow twice around at +16/+11 for 1d8+20
it's not that bad compared to some of the other 11 PCs we have.
it outdamages the Dwarven 2WF we already have and is fairly close to the tian barbarian. the dwarf deals 1d8+12 4 times a round with a pair of +2 sawtooth sabres but has worse ranged ability
not a swiss army knife like the nagaji oracle, but doesn't require as much buffing time.
the longbow is for exclusively fliers and the main plan is to close up and smack things.
the tian barbarian does slightly more melee damage, but far weaker ranged output.
the nagaji oracle spends a lot of time buffing to be effective.
it isn't a shock trooper build or minmaxed archer, but it deals decent damage and is easy to play.
How about give her a Combat Maneuver build with the rolls already calculated? It'll give her more to do than just hit things, and shouldn't be too much fuss.
But I would still have to recommend like the others above; try a different game with less players and at a much lower level, maybe.
One last suggestion- how about Paladin? A little bit trickier than Fighter but still nowhere near the complication of a caster or a cavalier or ranger.
My suggestion is that if you really wanted the game to catch on to her you wouldnt put her in a group that large.. Ive been gaming for 15years and i wouldnt have fun in a grp that large.. Find u another relaxed player or 2 and run a game urself for her.. Keep ur high point buy, but dont modify the encounters so the "ease" of combat is there till she gets used to it.. As far class goes i agree that a fighter is the easiest for a newbie.. Another choice that nots overly compicated would be a ranger though, and ive never met a girl dnder that didnt like animal companions so..
Archers can be nice for new players since they get to stand back and inflict death from afar with less frequent risk to the PC. There's also less confusion about "No, you moved, so you can only make 1 attack" and stuff like AoOs, 5 foot steps, etc.
The problem is that Rapid Shot and Manyshot can get a little confusing, but if you write up a few attack options in a clear and easy to read format it should probably be simple enough.
On the other hand, I tend to disagree with the "Beginner = Fighter" sentiment. Magic seems complicated, but since a Sorcerer can specialize in using just a few spells. It can be a good class for beginners IMO. For example, stand in the back and drop a Fireball for 10d6 every round. Then branch out as you get comfortable. Magic Missile is another very simple spell. You just roll damage and watch stuff die. If that gets boring there are a lot of other spells to try.
First:
I would also say the baker's dozen group at 10th level is a sub par choice to begin with.
Try to get 1 or 2 other people to join for a few sessions as 1st level characters and run abit with yourself as a GM to help here get started.
Then when she at least understands the basic rules, phase her into the main group.
Second:
There was a build somewhere on these forums (but my search is not currently finding it) of a switch hitting ranger build. With the 2 weapon fighting and multiple archery feats matched up so that at most levels all of the rolls were identical.
Str was 10 so no difference in damage modifier to the off hand weapon.
Same number of attacks and the same to hit modifier.
Etc...
A group this large is a bad idea to introduce ANYONE to the game. The issues you describe make it much much worse. Unless you have the most polite civil people on the planet at this table, its going to be LOUD. Everyone will be clamouring for the stage, and she will get lost in the shuffle. Not might, she will. It might be alot it might be a little, but it will happen. That and starting her out with level 10, she will have no idea whats going on when the other players a talking. She might not be doing all the crazy things as a straight fighter, but the complexity of what is going on around her will overwhelm her.
Like others have said, grab a couple players and run an intro game at 1st level. Heck with 12 people in your group you should be able to do this. After a 10 sessions at lower levels in a simpler game, then maybe you can consider bringing her into that massive one. But definately not to introduce her to the game.
Seconding a 12 PC problem. If your player is of the socially impaired type, you're potentially setting yourself up for her getting lost and confused in all of this, *especially* given that you're planning to run level 10 characters, which at this point usually have bucketloads of options.
If your player is of the "don't overwhelm me" type, I'd recommend to start with something small and low, and gradually work up from there.
just for simplicity, i am going to show her a claymore inspired greatsword/longbow fighter. not quite optimized, but effective enough at melee while having 2 options.
fire a bow, or swing a sword.
One possible build:
Str 16+2Con 14
Dex 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8
Traits Indomitable Faith (Will+1)
Deft Dodger (Reflex+1)
Feats
1 Power Attack
1 Point-blank shot
1 Rapid Shot
2 Weap Focus Greatsword
3 Weap Focus Longbow
4 Weap Spec Greatsword
5 Weap Spec Longbow
6 Quick Draw
7 Deadly Aim
8 Improved Crit Greatsword
9 Improved Crit Longbow
10 Critical Focus
A group this large is a bad idea to introduce ANYONE to the game. The issues you describe make it much much worse. Unless you have the most polite civil people on the planet at this table, its going to be LOUD. Everyone will be clamouring for the stage, and she will get lost in the shuffle. Not might, she will. It might be alot it might be a little, but it will happen. That and starting her out with level 10, she will have no idea whats going on when the other players a talking. She might not be doing all the crazy things as a straight fighter, but the complexity of what is going on around her will overwhelm her.
Like others have said, grab a couple players and run an intro game at 1st level. Heck with 12 people in your group you should be able to do this. After a 10 sessions at lower levels in a simpler game, then maybe you can consider bringing her into that massive one. But definately not to introduce her to the game.
I would actually propose something a bit above lvl 1. Let them play at lvl 3-5. Level 1 can be kinda depressing, since everybody can get killed by
1-2 shots. If the characters are a bit stronger, the game can run more smothly for newbies. There also wouldn't be many additional rules making combat different.If the player likes visual things the use of miniatures might really make it more easy.
Another nice thing IMO would be to put explanations on her character sheet. Creating a custom character sheet which already tells nearly everything that is to know(Instead of "attack bonus +9" you could write "to hit: W20+9",for spells you could copy the short explanations given in the Core Rule Book, Will Save - defense against mental attacks W20+X, Aura of Courage-gives Immunity against fear and allies +2 on their Will against it, etc.)
This would be quite a ot of work, but it makes it really easy for the player.
I say build the Fighter as well. NO Archetypes, NO Prestige Classes, and cut Feat list to work allways type. ie not thought; like Weapon Focus*, Weapon Spec., Vital Strike* chain, Toughness, Stealthy, Skill Focus, Run, Quick Draw*, Persuasive, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will,Improved Critical*,Great Fortitude,Fleet, Dodge*, Mobility*, Spring Attack*, Endurance, Diehard, Combat Reflexes*, Stand Still*.
Stay away form power attack and combat exp to much math. (Hell it confuse me some times)
I would wait till to bring her in the game till the game resets to level 1. Thus letting her learn the PC as it levels she level. Spoon feed her she just needs a bite..You are giving here 10 couse meal or level 10 PC to much at one time. It hard to swallow it all at once or take it all in.
Option Card with her data on them.
Ie Start with 5 then each week add 1 or 2.
move and attack once melee
5ft step and full attack
Aid other
Use Potion
Use alchiemcal item
After each week talk to her. Ask what she option that other players did that she would like to do as well.
Use 9 pocket slip page and make items cards. With Magic items, and other gear.
Dry earse marke makers put PC in slip sheet and write and earse as needed.
Buff deck/ condition deck. Good maps. Show Picture of monsters to help her see it in her minds eye.
Helpfull but not bossy patry folks...let her fail and learn some on her own. Guild and help when asked do not drive it for her. Most of all time and practice do it again and again. Run drills with her ie small fights so she learns her PC moves of what it can do. Start small add to it each time. Check back in to see gets each old lesson.
i realized, that i shouldn't push her to try it so soon. so i may need to wait a bit before introducing her.
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A build i made a while back should be good for her. Its 20 point buy though with no traits. Also its very effective at the level ur introducing her and only needs 1 weapon for melee and ranged. Not to mention very simple to use.
-Race-
Human
-Class-
Fighter (Weapon Master)
-Stats 20pb-
STR 16 (+2 racial)(+2 leveling) = 20
DEX 16 (+2 leveling)(+6 item) = 24
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 09
CHA 07
-Feats-
01 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus Composite Longbow
02 Deadly Aim
03 Rapid Shot
04 Weapon Specialization
05 Point Blank Master
06 Manyshot
07 Clustered Shots
08 Greater Weapon Focus
09 Snap Shot
10 Improved Snap Shot
11 Combat Reflexes
12 Pin Down
13 Greater Weapon Specialization
14 Hammer the Gap
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike
17 Vital Strike
18 Improved Vital Strike
19 Greater Vital Strike
20 Bullseye Shot
-Method-
Clustered Shots and Penetrating shot makes DR apply to the total damage from full round attacks and reduced that DR by 5/10. Snap Shot gives the ability to perform AoO and Pin Down makes it were withdraw actions and 5ft steps provoke and will force enemies that get into melee to stay in melee when needed. Vital Strike chain and Bullseye Shot ar to make use of the Weapon Master's Unstoppable Strike when forced to make only standard action attacks or when facing an enemy that's ac is so high that only one attack will hit. Unstoppable Strike btw ignores DR and hardness anf hits Touch AC.
Introducing someone to the game with a 10th level character in a 12 person group is like throwing someone into the deep end of the pool with a cinderblock tied to their leg...when they don't even know how to doggy paddle.
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On a personal note id make a custom game to run just for her and maybe 1-2 other people that she is comfortable with. For me the best way to learn the game is just to play it. The 1st time i ever played my friend did this for me and a friend of mine at the time. The game started off as us playing us in a normal every day environment at school getting ready to go on a field trip. We went to the museum and got separated from the group and stumbled into the past were magic and monster ruled. Since i had a lighter on the character i faked being a wizard with the power to create fire at my whim and was taught wizardry. My friend said some thing along the lines of being the 1 that looked out for me and learned how to use sword and shield. We learned how to play our characters through RP and applied the knowledge to the quest we were sent on.
Fighter can be made easy for play, as can a ranger all the while allowing you to be a bit more interactive with skills. A cavalier has less feats to worry about than a fighter it just depends on how specialized you make your mount.