Courage, Interfactor. PF is a really good toolkit of a game system, but it does give the players, GM, and group a lot of rope with which to hang themselves on issues. One of those ropes is the gulf between certain play styles - mainly min-maxers/combat builds vs non-min-maxers/non-combat builds. Unfortunately, because of the variety of options in the attempt to create a satisfying experience, it's easier for PFS to gear up toward the min-maxers and combat builds than the non-min-maxers/non-combat builds. Fortunately, your home campaign is yours and doesn't need to pay that way.[escalating conspiracy wingnut rant mode]Ultimately, this is why I think organized play is a bane to the game as well as a boon in promotion. To accommodate scratch-built tables, a lot of tailoring that could be done by a home GM has to go out the window. And that pushes the game in the direction of the lowest common denominators that everyone experiences - combat and survival. That, in turn, drives an optimization feedback loop that discards classes like the rogue and other options that can't be pushed as far. And, being closely in contact with the game company, the organized play system becomes a primary source of information on the state of the game. Pretty soon, in an effort to quell the reports of imbalance, the game company launches a new edition that features combat balance above all at the expense of the feel and history of the game. Gah!
[/escalating conspiracy wingnut rant mode]Sometimes I need to get that off my chest when the "pull your weight or die" discussions come up.
I've played a vanilla monk. Believe me when I say it sucks to suck at combat. Characters with out of combat skill are needed and important, but they still need to be passable at combat.
Something like the rogue should be able to optimize for combat. They can't. They can't even be decent at it.
I don't know what PF Society's rules for eidolon and animal companion feats are, but presumably you could use pets to get use out of a teamwork feat. Unfortunately, most teamwork feats suck... Lookout is good, Coordinated Charge is awesome but comes very late for PFS (and your pet will NEVER reach the BAB for it), Stealth Synergy is ok... Target of Opportunity is good if you actually have two archers. That's about it...
Back to topic... PFS requires you to physically own any book you use, yes?
If so, are Dawnflower Dervish or Chelist Deva Bard archetypes even options for you, OP? The only other Bard archetypes I really like (Archaeologist; Dirge Bard) both give up versatile performance.
Dawnflower Dervish is great if you want a dex-based melee character who's also heavily skilled, though. If you don't care about going for Crane Wing you literally don't need *any* combat feats beyond what you get for free. Enforcer, Weapon Focus, Arcane Strike, and Improved Crit (or just get keen), and Discordant Voice certainly are nice, but aren't required. Well, I really would suggest Discordant Voice if you actually reach level 11.
PFS ends at 12. So you wouldn't get much use out of Imp. Critical unless your a full BAB class.
Edit: if I remember right you can take teamwork feats, but only if you have 3+ intelligence, because even trained pack animals are stupid... I guess?
Well, you'd get about as much use out of it as Discordance Voice. You'd have to choose only 1 as your 11th level feat, though, so yeah... just get Keen.
This thread is bad for Pathfinder.
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This thread is bad for Pathfinder.
Pathfinder's class imbalance is what's bad for Pathfinder.
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no no there is more than one thing but this just ruthlessly bad
I'm going to go actually play the game now so that I don't have to read anymore about how terrible it is while people get scared off and saddened.
no no there is more than one thing but this just ruthlessly bad
I'm going to go actually play the game now so that I don't have to read anymore about how terrible it is while people get scared off and saddened.
Yeah... I'm not too proud of this thread. You know I've read everyone of these post (since I made the thread).
Agreed...
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I'm glad it exists. It has been a fairly wonderful, civil discussion and breakdown of the failings of the PF rogue. I get that the truth hurts, though.
I'm glad it exists. It has been a fairly wonderful, civil discussion and breakdown of the failings of the PF rogue. I get that the truth hurts, though.
I'll be over here waiting for ultimate stealth/trickery/skill
Personally, I'd call it Ultimate Subterfuge. And I hope Paizo publishes it someday.
Who knows? Maybe they're collecting ideas right now... (Or at leas plan do so afer Ultimate Campaign)
Ultimate Subterfuge
Great title. I am now waiting for that book.
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I can't help myself. I made a skill-monkey rogue! LOL. :)
Everyone can now tell me how bad it sucks. She has +16 to hit with her primary attack. Don't care what everyone else has, average AC for a CR10 critter is 24, so she hits with her first attack 65% of the time, or 75% when flanking.
This is absolutely not an attempt to make a character for Marthkus. I'm pretty sure he is going wizard. (And I love wizards! They are the primary class I play.) This character is a remake of a 2nd edition rogue I played back in the day.
Elf Rogue 10
CG Medium Humanoid
Init: +6
Senses: Perception +20; Low-Light Vision
DEFENSE
AC: 25 (10, +7 armor, +6 Dex, +1 deflection, +1 dodge) (+3 vs. traps)
Touch: 18
Flat-footed: 18
HP: 53 (8d8+10)
Fort: +8 (3 base, +0 Con, +2 feat, +3 resistance)
Ref: +16 (7 base, +6 Dex, +3 resistance) (+3 vs. traps)
Will: +7 (3 base, +1 Wis, +3 resistance) (+2 vs. enchantment)
Defensive Abilities: Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge
OFFENSE
Speed: 30 ft.
Melee:
Rapier +16/+11 (1d6+2/18-20x2)
Ranged:
Longbow +14 (1d8/x3)
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +5d6
STATISTICS
Str: 10 +0 (10 base)
Dex: 22 +6 (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 enhancement)
Con: 10 +0 (12 base, -2 racial)
Int: 18 +4 (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level)
Wis: 12 +1 (12 base)
Cha: 12 +1 (12 base)
BAB: +7/+2; CMB: +7; CMD: 23
Feats: Alertness, Deft Hands, Dodge, Great Fortitude, Skill Focus: Acrobatics, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Rapier
Skills: Acrobatics +25(10r), Bluff +14(10r), Climb +13(10r), Disable Device +23(10r), Disguise +14(10r), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +17(10r), Knowledge (local) +17(10r), Perception +20(10r), Sense Motive +18(10r), Sleight of Hand +23(10r), Stealth +24(10r), Use Magic Device +14(10r)
Languages: Common
Special Qualities: +2 to Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con, Elven Immunities (+2 vs. enchantment, immune to sleep), Keen Senses (+2 perception), Low-Light Vision, Silent Hunter (reduce stealth penalty when moving by 5), Weapon Familiarity (proficient with longbows, longswords, rapiers, and shortbows, and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in its name as a martial weapon)
Class Abilities: Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent (Finesse Rogue, Offensive Defense, Opportunist, Trap Spotter, Weapon Training), Sneak Attack +5d6, Trapfinding, Trap Sense +3
Equipment:
+3 Shadow Mithril Chain Shirt (13,850gp)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4 (16,000)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9,000gp)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000gp)
+2 Mithril Rapier (9,020)
3 Cold Iron Daggers (12 gp)
Masterwork Longbow (400gp)
20 Arrows (1gp)
20 +1 Adamant Arrows (2,001gp)
Explorer's Outfit (0gp)
Handy Haversack (2,000gp)
Bedroll (0.1gp)
Waterskin (1gp)
Wand of Cure Light Wounds, 50ch (750gp)
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (300gp)
Total spent: 54,685.1
Money remaining: 6,664.9gp
62,000gp
Stealth is an issue that was rewritten three times since printing in D&D 4th Edition (or That-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named to some players). I suspect it'll need just as much work (if not more) in Pathfinder.
My druid is level 8 With a pet and stealth synergy, I think I've gotten to use it once.
PFS is set up so everything is sneaking up on you. The scenarios make it hard to do the other way around.
I can't help myself. I made a skill-monkey rogue! LOL. :)
Everyone can now tell me how bad it sucks. She has +16 to hit with her primary attack. Don't care what everyone else has, average AC for a CR10 critter is 24, so she hits with her first attack 65% of the time, or 75% when flanking.
This is absolutely not an attempt to make a character for Marthkus. I'm pretty sure he is going wizard. (And I love wizards! They are the primary class I play.) This character is a remake of a 2nd edition rogue I played back in the day.
** spoiler omitted **...
I was waiting for someone to mention average AC for CR. Where can you find a list of those? It would help me make real characters.
Add up the AC of all creatures pretaining to a paticular CR and divide by the number of creatures whose AC you added.
That sounds like work someone else would have already done and posted.
I generally just eyeball it myself. I look at a few critters for a giver CR, and if I see an AC repeat a bunch of times, I take it for the average.
Ok so based on what Lord twig posted and extrapolating to 12 without taking crits into consideration. I get that a two-weapon fighting rogue does about 85% power attacking fighter damage on average. That's not too bad. If the fighter doesn't power attack they average out the same. Assuming that both are flanking.
Now the rogue needs a situation to be not bad, but all I was asking for was close. This is close enough.
Do you have those assumptions handy? I'd like to run the numbers.
if a single handed rogue has a 75% to hit an average creature of appropriate CR, then a two-weapon rogue would have a 65% chance to hit. Assuming the fighter has +8 to hit over the rogue with a minus 4 penalty from power attack. The Fighter flanking with the rogue would have an 85% chance to-hit with his first attack.
Assuming no haste, same ability modifier, rogue has 10 strength and is using dex to hit, Both have the same enhancement bonus on weapons.
And ignoring criticals.
If you're still taking suggestions (or were ever), I would recommend looking at Alchemist (Mindchemist). I don't know PFS and what is legal or not but I think this fits your original concept better than wizard. You add double Int bonus to knowledge skills (better than being a class skill if you focus on int). Combine with Breadth of Experience you can attempt any knowledge untrained (and have a pretty decent bonus). Plus a decent selection of class skills. Plus a reason to focus on Intelliegence (extracts/bomb damage) outside of pure skill points. Explosive missile discovery gives you a similiar mechanic to sneak attack that's easier to pull off. Extracts are certainly more mundane than spells. Take infusion and you can remove the "inner magic" fluff and just have them be chemical reactions. Take the feat Focused Shot and you're doing Intelliegence bonus to damage (not the best feat but theme appropriate since you mentioned pot shots with your crossbow).
I would say rogues do skills well enough without focusing on them and one trick ponies are one trick ponies regardless of what their trick is. Balanced characters are generally always gonna see more play time.
I can't help myself. I made a skill-monkey rogue! LOL. :)
Everyone can now tell me how bad it sucks. She has +16 to hit with her primary attack. Don't care what everyone else has, average AC for a CR10 critter is 24, so she hits with her first attack 65% of the time, or 75% when flanking.
This is absolutely not an attempt to make a character for Marthkus. I'm pretty sure he is going wizard. (And I love wizards! They are the primary class I play.) This character is a remake of a 2nd edition rogue I played back in the day.
** spoiler omitted **...
Your fort and will save are low. You are better off with a low reflex save since you have evasion to help you out there. I can't say how much it sucks or does not suck because often such things depend on how the GM runs combat.
You also did not go with TWF, a two handed weapon, or the agile enhancement so even though your attack bonus is decently high the damage won't be all that good.
I will stop here.
Ignoring criticals is a bad bet since we're talking a significant boost to damage with correct weapon selection (especially at that level when improved critical is available).
I'll make a basic rundown instead of just guestimating.
Target is CR 15 so we assume boss fight average AC is 30.
Assume fighter 2 handing a +3 falchion. +4 str belt. 18 str to start using level adjusts to 20
DPR = 60.75
Rogue TWF with +4 dex belt, 18 dex to start goes to 20 with level and a +2 agile rapier and a +2 agile short sword (and let's be honest here, I'm being plenty generous giving the rogue 2x the GP in weapons).
DP = 33.96
That doesn't look like 85%.
Let's try an even level flunky.
Fighter 83.16
Rogue 50.19
Hmm, still no 85%. Looks more like around 60%. You'll have to decide if you like that or not. Mind you I didn't even buy the (what I consider mandatory) gloves of dueling which are less than the cost of the second weapon. That would have boosted the fighter DPR to 99 on the lackey and 76 on the boss.
Ok so based on what Lord twig posted and extrapolating to 12 without taking crits into consideration. I get that a two-weapon fighting rogue does about 85% power attacking fighter damage on average. That's not too bad. If the fighter doesn't power attack they average out the same. Assuming that both are flanking.
Now the rogue needs a situation to be not bad, but all I was asking for was close. This is close enough.
Now that's assuming that you're always flanking and that you're always two weapon fighting. Those two can be a little rare, but getting them both together is a veritable celestial alignment. Monsters don't normally stick around for a rogue sandwich: either they move out of the way if they can, or frankly, the rogue being much squishier than the fighter eliminate him first.
Round 1, move up and stab flat footed foe (sneak attack but no flank and no two weapon fighting)
Round two: fighter moves up and hits. Rogue moves and flanks. Monster 2 makes flank sandwhich with rogue. MOnster 1 Dies from a magic missle.
Round three: Rogue waits for the fighter to be in position, moves and sneak attacks.
Round 4: FINALLY! Full attack sneak attack.
Thats with a reasonably coordinated group and a rogue willing to delay initiative to the fighter. You'll be lucky if you get THAT.
I can't help myself. I made a skill-monkey rogue! LOL. :)
Everyone can now tell me how bad it sucks. She has +16 to hit with her primary attack. Don't care what everyone else has, average AC for a CR10 critter is 24, so she hits with her first attack 65% of the time, or 75% when flanking.
This is absolutely not an attempt to make a character for Marthkus. I'm pretty sure he is going wizard. (And I love wizards! They are the primary class I play.) This character is a remake of a 2nd edition rogue I played back in the day.
** spoiler omitted **...
Your fort and will save are low. You are better off with a low reflex save since you have evasion to help you out there. I can't say how much it sucks or does not suck because often such things depend on how the GM runs combat.
You also did not go with TWF, a two handed weapon, or the agile enhancement so even though your attack bonus is decently high the damage won't be all that good.
I will stop here.
I put no effort into the Ref save, that's just what it turns out to be. I did spend a feat to raise the Fort save because I know it is needed.
TWF just eats up money, feats and gives her a -2 to hit. The idea is to hit with a sneak attack for the Offensive Defense. It is safe to assume that if she is flanking something whoever is flanking with her is going to hit it which will give her another attack with her Opportunist talent.
Her Str is 10, what good is a two-handed weapon going to do? Agile enhancement is nice, and probably worth it, but honestly I don't allow it in my games and I'm not sure it is legal in PFS. Even if it was it is certain I don't have the book for it, so I couldn't use it anyway.
So her strategy is to keep her bow in hand and attack from range in the surprise round. As soon as the fighter (or whatever) is engaged she will delay until just before his turn (so if he goes on 12, she will go on 13). She then tumbles in and flanks whatever the fighter attacking and attack. If she hits it raises her AC to 30 (or 33 if fighting defensively). If she misses the fighter goes, hits (because he will), and she gets another chance to sneak attack the beastie to get her Offensive Defense bonus.
Anyway, she is in no way a combat monster, but she has something to do during combat.
I was assuming CR 12, Great Sword Fighter, no agile, both have +3 weapons, the rogue has daggers, and I accidentally did 5d6 SA instead of 6d6 SA.
Crits are a better addition, but no fighter I know uses a falchion.
Anyway, she is in no way a combat monster, but she has something to do during combat.
Well I hope she brought pom poms because with her DPR of 22 and a strategy that only actually attacks once in a while, cheering might help too (using my above posted DPR assumptions, except +3 weapon instead of agile).
I was assuming CR 12, Great Sword Fighter, no agile, both have +3 weapons, the rogue has daggers, and I accidentally did 5d6 SA instead of 6d6 SA.
Crits are a better addition, but no fighter I know uses a falchion.
OK, we can switch to that.
Fighter with greatsword, same assumptions
Boss DPR 61.7
Lackey DPR 83.6
Rogue with 2 daggers (+3 instead of +2 agile)
Boss DPR 30.6
Lackey 43.1
Hmm, that made it even worse.
rogue: 2*.65*26.5 + 2*.4*26.5 = 55.65
fighter: .85*38 +.6*38 + .35*38 = 68.4
Adding in things I forgot before, I go 81.4%. That still does not include crits, which favors the rogue, since anything not being crit laugh at sneak attacks, But I don't see how your getting your numbers.
The math does not reflect the "reality" of the battlemat.
It gets far, far , FAR worse for the rogue when you consider rounds that he's not double sneak attacking.
Oh of course, but the same can be said of a fighter not full-attacking.
Fighter > Rogue
But then again I would certainly hope so. All the fighter does is fight.
Fighter attacks at
+12 (BAB) +7 (str) +2 (focus, greater focus) +2 (weapon training) +3 (enhancement) -4 power attack = +22 for an average of 38 damage (+10 str, +12 PA, +4 spec, gr spec, +2 weapon training, +3 enhancement, +7 avr dam of Greatsword)
So we have (.8 + .55 + .3) * 38 = 62.7 without crits (but crits add almost 20% for the fighter)
Rogue attacks at +9 +7 +3 -2 = +17 with a damage of 5.5 (2.5 for the dagger +3 enhacement) and 21 sneak
so 2*(.55 +.30) *26.5 = 45
(had a wrong number on the spreadsheet for lackey on rogue, it was 47)
Without crits, it is around 75%, but the fighter damage all gets the crit boost while only around 20% of the rogue damage gets it. As a 17-20 x2 crit adds around 20% damage that is significant (getting the fighter up to 79 actually, I had left in the gloves of dueling part of the damage, which is actually fair but I didn't mean to).
47/79 = 59%
Fighter not full attacking
DPR 37.6
Rogue getting off one sneak
17.94
rogue not getting off sneak, one hit
4.29 <sob>
Fighter attacks at
+12 (BAB) +7 (str) +2 (focus, greater focus) +2 (weapon training) +3 (enhancement) -4 power attack = +22 for an average of 38 damage (+10 str, +12 PA, +4 spec, gr spec, +2 weapon training, +3 enhancement, +7 avr dam of Greatsword)So we have (.8 + .55 + .3) * 38 = 62.7 without crits (but crits add almost 20% for the fighter)
Rogue attacks at +9 +7 +3 -2 = +17 with a damage of 5.5 (2.5 for the dagger +3 enhacement) and 21 sneak
so 2*(.55 +.30) *26.5 = 45
(had a wrong number on the spreadsheet for lackey on rogue, it was 47)
Without crits, it is around 75%, but the fighter damage all gets the crit boost while only around 20% of the rogue damage gets it. As a 17-20 x2 crit adds around 20% damage that is significant (getting the fighter up to 79 actually, I had left in the gloves of dueling part of the damage, which is actually fair but I didn't mean to).
47/79 = 59%
You forgot weapon focus for the rogue. But assuming your 20 increase due to crits, I get the rogue doing 2/3 damage. At this point we're back to sucking, given how unreliable sneak attack is.
Now throw in a ninja with greater invisibility(class feature) and poisons, and we have a much more comparable stealth character to fighter DPR (hitting flat footed AC and poison effects).
Anyway, she is in no way a combat monster, but she has something to do during combat..
My point was that you need to do something to make her contribute in combat. Right now that rogue is not a threat, and it is saying go bard or ranger.
And suddenly a ninja(technically a rogue right?) build
10str 18dex 14con 10int 10wis 14cha
Skills(10): Acrobatics,Bluff,Climb,Disable-Device,Disguise,Escape-Artist,Perception,Sle ight-of-hand,Stealth,Use-magic-device
1st +0 |TWF,WF(dagger)| Poison use, sneak attack +1d6
2nd +1 || Ki pool, ninja trick[Rogue Talent(Finesse Rogue)]
3rd +2 |Quick Draw| No trace +1, sneak attack +2d6
4th +3 || ninja trick(Vanishing Trick),uncanny dodge
5th +3 |Extra Ki| Sneak attack +3d6
6th +4 || Light steps, ninja trick(Fast Stealth), no trace +2
7th +5 |Extra Ki| Sneak attack +4d6
8th +6/+1 || Improved uncanny dodge, ninja trick(Forgotten Trick)
9th +6/+1 |ITWF| No trace +3, sneak attack +5d6
10th +7/+2 || Master tricks, ninja trick(Invisible Blade)
11th +8/+3 |Extra Ki| Sneak attack +6d6
12th +9/+4 || ninja trick(Assassinate), no trace +4
rogue: 2*.65*26.5 + 2*.4*26.5 = 55.65
fighter: .85*38 +.6*38 + .35*38 = 68.4
Adding in things I forgot before, I go 81.4%. That still does not include crits, which favors the rogue, since anything not being crit laugh at sneak attacks, But I don't see how your getting your numbers.
I have a DPR spreadsheet. The fighter can get above 68.4 at level 12 easily. I have a 12 or 13 level fighter around here somewhere. 65ish hit points per round is for level 10 fighters. I think I hit the 80's at least.
Now it was a 25 point, but I did not have gloves of dueling. If I drop to 20 and get the gloves of dueling my DPR would go up. I am sure I could hit 85 at least.
55/85= about 65 percent
rogue: 2*.65*26.5 + 2*.4*26.5 = 55.65
fighter: .85*38 +.6*38 + .35*38 = 68.4
Adding in things I forgot before, I go 81.4%. That still does not include crits, which favors the rogue, since anything not being crit laugh at sneak attacks, But I don't see how your getting your numbers.
I have a DPR spreadsheet. The fighter can get above 68.4 at level 12 easily. I have a 12 or 13 level fighter around here somewhere. 65ish hit points per round is for level 10 fighters. I think I hit the 80's at least.
Now it was a 25 point, but I did not have gloves of dueling. If I drop to 20 and get the gloves of dueling my DPR would go up. I am sure I could hit 85 at least.
55/85= about 65 percent
Not that bad. How would a 'rogue' attacking only flat footed AC fair?
Not that bad. How would a 'rogue' attacking only flat footed AC fair?rogue: 2*.65*26.5 + 2*.4*26.5 = 55.65
fighter: .85*38 +.6*38 + .35*38 = 68.4
Adding in things I forgot before, I go 81.4%. That still does not include crits, which favors the rogue, since anything not being crit laugh at sneak attacks, But I don't see how your getting your numbers.
I have a DPR spreadsheet. The fighter can get above 68.4 at level 12 easily. I have a 12 or 13 level fighter around here somewhere. 65ish hit points per round is for level 10 fighters. I think I hit the 80's at least.
Now it was a 25 point, but I did not have gloves of dueling. If I drop to 20 and get the gloves of dueling my DPR would go up. I am sure I could hit 85 at least.
55/85= about 65 percent
Most monsters depend on natural armor so it won't help that much. Even humanoids use medium to heavy armor and shields. The rogue might get pushed to the low 60's but that is about it.
Once you accept ninja as a rogue substitute it's over.
Ninja don't handle traps significantly better than anyone else, so now you have to compare not to specialized and often somewhat weak archetypes like archaeologist, trapper, and cryptbreaker, but to everything. When you stop filling the still partially protected rogue niche you stop having value independent of your combat capability and skill points.
We were discussing if it was even possible to have a 'rogue' be decent at combat. Obviously we can't fill skill-monkey and combat roles at the same time to equal effect.
I know I got hung up on it before, but traps are boring. My home DMs don't put traps in unless there is a rogue and it sounds like PFS doesn't have too many magical traps either.
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Anyway, she is in no way a combat monster, but she has something to do during combat..My point was that you need to do something to make her contribute in combat. Right now that rogue is not a threat, and it is saying go bard or ranger.
The way you guys make fighters it doesn't look like anybody contributes to combat except the fighter. You have basically made a fighter that can 2 round a CR equivalent monster. What is there to do? More damage is redundant. My rogue is there and is able to help with whatever doesn't require damage, or she can add a little here and there where it might help (almost dead foes, an average 23 damage per hit or at least giving the fighter +2 to hit with a flank).
Meanwhile what are your fighter's skills? What is it exactly that he does when not in combat? I'm guessing perception since that is the optimal skill, right? I guess you can point out anything I miss with my +20 perception roll.
So I can spectate in combat, and you can spectate the rest of the time. ;) (I wish they would add smileys to this forum. They help convey tone.)
Most Paizo AP's/PFS Scenarios don't have a lot of traps, and the ones they do have are able to be bypassed in other ways, such as dispel magic or summoning monsters to activate them on purpose while the party is far away.
Skills are not that great, for the most part. That is why I wish the rogue could do special things with skills to make them have something other classes did not have.
The fighter I was comparing to had perception, UMD, and survival as class skills with skill focus in UMD and perception. But then again my fighter started with 18 strength not 20.
Starting with a stat maxed out is really not needed. I often start with a base of 16 for my primary stat before racial modifiers. That allows me to do other things, and avoid weaknesses as much as possible.
Skills are not that great, for the most part. That is why I wish the rogue could do special things with skills to make them have something other classes did not have.
Have to be careful with things like that. Sometimes you end up taking away options instead of giving them. Just look at the ridiculousness that is disabling magical traps. Apparently this one mundane guy can do it, but not the guy with 20 ranks in it?