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The Rope Dart


Rules Questions

Sczarni

The fact that it has the "monk" quality seems to imply that you can recover the dart as a free action and thus full-attack with the rope dart. Is this true?

Do you add your full strength bonus to damage with a rope dart?

Can you make trip attacks with it? Can you do so at any range within 20 feet? Can you do so in melee?

Can you throw a rope dart further than 20 feet if you're willing to let go of the rope?

Can you dual-wield rope darts? Does doing so allow non-monks to "flurry" with it?


Yes, you can full attack with it, that's the whole point of it. :)

If you're flurrying, then by definition all attacks will get full strength to damage. If not, I think you still would as long as you're not using it as an offhand attack.

In PF, you can make trip attacks with any weapon. Well, melee weapon at least. Rope Dart is classified oddly, so I'm not sure. IMO, it should be a 20 ft melee reach weapon that does not threaten (so no giant radius AoO field), but oh well.

I'm sure you could throw it farther than 20 ft if you let go, there's no reason you couldn't. I have no idea what sort of range increment it would have. I would default to 10 ft increments beyond the 20 ft it can attack normally and treated as a thrown weapon (so max range of +50 ft, or 70 ft total, which would be 5 range increments out). EDIT: I would also consider it an improvised thrown weapon and thus assign a -4 penalty to attack rolls with it, if you were to throw it and release the rope.

You can dual wield crossbows and TWF with them (reloading might be an issue, of course), so I don't see why you couldn't TWF with Rope Darts.


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1: Yes.

Ultimate Equipment (via PRD) wrote:
Once it strikes, the wielder can quickly retrieve the weapon with a tug of the rope as a free action.

2: Being that it's a ranged weapon you throw, I'd guess so, and the rules would definitely imply it.

Ultimate Equipment PRD wrote:
Thrown Weapons: Daggers, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, and nets are examples of thrown weapons. The wielder applies his Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons).

(Emphasis mine)

3: RAW, no, you may not. As the rope dart is considered a ranged weapon, and combat maneuvers take the place of a melee attack, it's not allowed by the strict rules. However, I think you have to use melee to fight defensively, and the rope dart has the blocking quality which only applies while fighting defensively, so there's some confusion there for me, at least.

4: Again, RAW, I don't think you can. Of course, RAW, the rope dart has a range of 20 feet as a ranged weapon, which means you could "throw" it up to 100 feet (and still retrieve it as a free action).

5: Considering the handedness of the rope dart isn't taken into consideration, that's totally up to the GM.

It seems that the rope dart has some questions around it, as it's clearly supposed to operate like a melee weapon (even being referenced as similar to the meteor hammer), but is listed as a ranged weapon.


3. You do not, in fact, need to melee attack to fight defensively. I thought so until I made my Zen Archer handbook and looked into the usefulness of Crane Style feats for the archetype. Shockingly, any attack can be defensive, melee or ranged.

5. There's no way the rope dart takes 2 hands to operate, that'd just be awkward. Whether it would count as a light or 1-handed weapon for the offhand, I don't know. I figure since I don't think 2-handing it helps at all, it should work as a light weapon.

And yes, that's what I'm saying. It was poorly written. It should be a 20 ft melee weapon that doesn't threaten (other than out to natural reach, maybe). Basically, I think it should function like a whip, except 20 ft reach and you know, different damage and properties.

Quote:

Whip: A whip deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).

Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.

You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.


http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kung-fu-killers-10-deadliest-weapons/
Based on this video any my experience in Kung Fu, I can draw these conclusions:
1) yes, to both recovering as a free action and full attacking/FOB.
2) yes, as per thrown weapons.
3) no trip attacks, no melee. It's more like a throwing dart, not a whip. You can let go to throw it further, but you lose the rope. The blocking/distracting comes from the dart twirling around keeping enemies from getting close. watch the video. You dual wield crossbows because it's a projectile (mechanical). not a hurled weapon.
4) As written, no dual wielding. you need both hands, 1 to throw the other to control/keep hold. Look at all the slack on the rope. Watch the video again.

If you want melee, use the Kyoketsu Shoge instead. This is also a monk weapon, so you can flurry with it and has both reach and range (meaning you can apply either STR or DEX to attack), and also trips.

As written, the Meteor Hammer is a 2 handed weapon. That's why you can't flurry with it.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:
As written, the Meteor Hammer is a 2 handed weapon. That's why you can't flurry with it.

Other than this, I agree with you. You're absolutely allowed to flurry with a 2-handed weapon, you just don't get any extra damage for Strength.

I think we all agree the weapon could use a rewrite, though.

Sczarni

Thanks everybody. Here's some more questions.

Since the rope dart is a ranged weapon, can you use it to combine FoB with Rapid Shot?

Say it's the other guy who's throwing the rope dart at me. Could I use the Snatch Arrows feat to grab the dart and keep him from recovering it, effectively "disarming" it? If I don't have Snatch Arrows, could I ready an action to catch the dart and attempt a disarm? Could I instead attempt a Strength check to pull the wielder over to me, like I could with a net's trailing rope?


Loup Blanc wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
As written, the Meteor Hammer is a 2 handed weapon. That's why you can't flurry with it.

Other than this, I agree with you. You're absolutely allowed to flurry with a 2-handed weapon, you just don't get any extra damage for Strength.

I think we all agree the weapon could use a rewrite, though.

edit: That's why I said "as written". It's either a 2 handed reach weapon or a double weapon, not a monk weapon.

Sczarni

No answers on FoB/Rapid Shot? Guys, I'm seriously considering a non-Zen Archer ranged monk over here. If somebody doesn't talk me out of this, I just might build it. I'm thinking Monk of the Sacred Mountain might work, since flurrying at range means I don't have to leave my square...


Flurrying with a Rope Dart can be adjudicated in the same way as flurrying with Shuriken; the only difference is that Rope Dart can be drawn back so long as you keep hold of the rope (don't let it travel more than 20'. So Rapid Shot should be an affirmative because it is a ranged weapon. But if someone can catch projectiles out of the air, you can lose it.

So:

The fact that it has the "monk" quality seems to imply that you can recover the dart as a free action and thus full-attack with the rope dart. Is this true?
This in and of itself doesn't necessarily imply a free action, but I think it was stated by one of the devs before that it's a free action.

Do you add your full strength bonus to damage with a rope dart?
Yes, it's a ranged thrown weapon so, by default, you'd use Dex to attack and full Str to damage

Can you make trip attacks with it? Can you do so at any range within 20 feet? Can you do so in melee?
No. Trip must replace a melee attack and this is a ranged weapon; it cannot be used to make melee attacks.

Can you throw a rope dart further than 20 feet if you're willing to let go of the rope?
Presumably.

Can you dual-wield rope darts? Does doing so allow non-monks to "flurry" with it?
It's a thrown weapon so there's no restriction to using two-hands as with bows and most crossbows. So, technically speaking, there's nothing in the rules prohibiting you from dual-wielding them. You'd only get a single additional attack from TWF and a single additional attack with Rapid Shot (which you'd get even when wielding one) so TWF by itself will net you one additional attack and all of them will be at -2. With Flurry, however, you can use a single weapon for all attacks so it's inherently better for this model.

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