Thanks, Geraint. It would be a little easier to wait if I knew where they were / how things are going. Ah well, I know they're shipping their little hearts out.
Obviously.
I'm annoyed because March delivery became April, April has become May.
They should never have made a delivery promise they clearly couldn't keep. It's just bad business practice.
That's a shame. When did they promise a March delivery? Was that when there were 30 minis in the KS?
Yeah - there a few more than that now.
I suspect you'll be quite angry when the last deliveries ship in July.
Or August.
Maybe September?
This is gonna be a "fun" summer I imagine...
True, but they also made more money. One would think they might be able to get a few temporary workers to help with the increased volume.
But that depends on the amount of working space they have. Too many cooks in one kitchen, and all that such nonsense.
They estimated they would start shipping in April. They started shipping in April (last week of April, sure, but still April).
I don't remember anything about promising delivery in April, only shipping (if anyone can provide counter evidence, fine). Delivery is out of their hands after they've shipped it.
We're still talking close to 18,000 shipments, some pledges maybe even big enough to warrant several separate boxes/shipments.
Even with additional manpower they would probably only cut the actual period of shipping down with very little. The biggest, and slowest, obstacle is always in the beginning where they have to work out the kinks in the system. Once that is in place they'll be able to work faster and faster as they progress through even more complex orders (and Reaper Bryan has confirmed this is already happening).
One also has to remember that they have their normal day-to-day business to run and ship out.
So... chill, it'll get there eventually. ;-)
Just be glad that most of you are in the US so once your package is actually shipped it'll get to you faster than the rest of us from around the world.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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It's right there on their KS project page: "Estimated delivery: Mar 2013"
Yes, it's tough for a little company to ship 1,000 times their normal volume of product, but right now we have no idea when to expect our orders. Not knowing whether my order is shipping tomorrow or in 2 months is frustrating. I'm certain the more complex orders will take more time, so it's likely the process is only going to slow down.
It only takes a few minutes to write an update. Do they expect to finish shipping in May? Someone said something about Origins in June? What is it? What percentage of orders have shipped?
Based on the early communications, I was under the impression that most of the orders would have shipped by now, but it doesn't seem to be the case and there hasn't been any kind of update on that.
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What I know is the goal is to be done before June. This is because they want to attend Origins, but if they are not done shipping by the end of May/beginning of June they will skip Origins this year to keep focus on the shipping.
I know how everyone feels. We ordered vampire, cases, paints, dragons (including Nethyrmaul and Kaladrax) and I can't wait to get them.
Apparently Kaladrax is the largest mini the have produced and his final price even bones makes him well worth having snagged him in the KS.
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While I am sad that I have not recieved an update or new estimated delivery date, I am not angry. I mean these are not anything I need to live. They are toys that I will play with when they arrive. They are items I was able to buy at much less than their MSRP and are not on the painter's schedule until mid summer any way. To be super angry because your toys have not arrived yet just seems like a waste of effort and energy.
March?
We're in May, and as yet I still haven't even been notified of shipping dates. Bear in mind that generally shipping from China adds another month I am now looking at July onwards if not August, Which sucks because I have a WHOLE MONTH off work in June... time I could have been spending painting.
Hmmm ok, that may or may not alter things... stuff from the US can be relatively quick (my Pathfinder stuff always arrived quickly!) but wonder how they will be shipping out the Reaper sets?
Haven't gotten mine yet...but I don;t know if it's even been shipped yet or not. I'm assuming I'll get an e-mail when it ships.
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Hmmm ok, that may or may not alter things... stuff from the US can be relatively quick (my Pathfinder stuff always arrived quickly!) but wonder how they will be shipping out the Reaper sets?
All of the bones are in the Reaper warehouse in the US.
They just need to sort and send lots and lots of orders.
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Haven't gotten mine yet...but I don;t know if it's even been shipped yet or not. I'm assuming I'll get an e-mail when it ships.
So this is what we know:
1) they ship out of texas
2)they were ready to start shipping in march, but the shipment from china with the vampire pledges in it was held up in customs for three weeks
3) they plan to be done shipping before origins
4)(this one was secondhand) they were 2 days ahead of where they thought they would be when they wrapped up for reapercon
5) a bunch of people picked up their vampire pledges at reapercon
6) they are shipping UPS, so you should get and automated email from UPS when they ship.
7) people with any combination of vampire, paint sets and carry cases have been shipped. There have yet to be reports of any shipments with add on minis shipping
Orders with add-ons from the Vampire set itself (We Be Goblins, Fire It Up, etc.) are shipping.
Orders with optional add-ons (Jabberwock, Kaladrax, etc.) do not appear to be shipping yet. At least, I haven't seen a report of anyone getting a confirmation of an order like that shipping.
They started shipping on March 28th.
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They estimated they would start shipping in April. They started shipping in April (last week of April, sure, but still April).
Not true. The original estimate (last summer) was that they'd ship in March. They started shipping the end of March. I received mine on April 11.
Still haven't painted any of the Bones yet, but I've been using them in games. I used the unpainted Lem mini to represent my gnome prankster bard yesterday. I actually bought one of their Learn to Paint Kits separately and started painting that to learn what I'm doing before diving into the Bones, which is why I haven't started painting Bones yet.
It's right there on their KS project page: "Estimated delivery: Mar 2013"
They estimated they would start shipping in April. They started shipping in April (last week of April, sure, but still April).Not true. The original estimate (last summer) was that they'd ship in March. They started shipping the end of March. I received mine on April 11.
You are both right, I misspoke (mistyped?) when I wrote April, I did indeed mean March. My apologies.
So they started shipping in March, just as they promised. They didn't say that they would have everything shipped by the end of March, that's an assumption wholly on the shoulders of those who might have read more into what they said than they actually did.Based on the early communications, I was under the impression that most of the orders would have shipped by now, but it doesn't seem to be the case and there hasn't been any kind of update on that.
They have said that they would halt shipping right up to, during and a couple of days after ReaperCon.
They have also said that they have resumed shipping (Update #90 on April 25).Yes, it's tough for a little company to ship 1,000 times their normal volume of product, but right now we have no idea when to expect our orders. Not knowing whether my order is shipping tomorrow or in 2 months is frustrating.
Yes, you do indeed have an idea of when to expect your order... as soon as they get to it!
Barring something completely weird happening, it won't be in two months. It'll most likely be shipped in May at the latest.It only takes a few minutes to write an update. Do they expect to finish shipping in May? Someone said something about Origins in June? What is it? What percentage of orders have shipped?
You can't please everyone all the time. Even if they did incremental updates you'd still have people clamouring and upset. There actually is a lot of information out there, but you do have to do a little digging (usually through the Reaper messageboards as they are replies from ReaperBryan to queries in various threads).
Could some of it have been communicated better? Sure, but we don't live in a perfect world.The main thing to take away from all of it is:
- Reaper is coming through on their Kickstarter (something which can't be said of all Kickstarters), i.e. everyone will get what they pledged for (they have all the Vampire packages at their warehouse, some add-ons are coming in continuously).
- They started shipping when they said they would.
- Some problems have occurred (slight delay in one of the add-ons I think plus border/customs problems with Canada shipments). Reaper has acknowledged these problems, albeit they probably could have communicated them better.
- They are prioritizing actually getting all the packages sent over doing constant updates.
- The Kickstarter was the 3rd larges Kickstarter of all time at the time it was done. Something no one at Reaper could have dreamed of. That meant two things:
1) Their initial estimates for shipping etc. were blown out of the water... yet they STILL managed to start shipping at the time they promised.
2) You got a ton of extra minis for very, very little money!!!
Also, here's a post people would probably want to read:
ReaperBryan on progress, why no fulfillment tracker etc.
Yes, you do indeed have an idea of when to expect your order... as soon as they get to it!
Barring something completely weird happening, it won't be in two months. It'll most likely be shipped in May at the latest.
Well let's not assume anything, we'd hate to make "an assumption wholly on the shoulders of those who might have read more into what they said than they actually did."
Well let's not assume anything, we'd hate to make "an assumption wholly on the shoulders of those who might have read more into what they said than they actually did."Yes, you do indeed have an idea of when to expect your order... as soon as they get to it!
Barring something completely weird happening, it won't be in two months. It'll most likely be shipped in May at the latest.
They've said that they hope/plan to have everything shipped before the end of May (or before Origins at the latest), so I'm not assuming anything, that's what they've said themselves.
For that to be pushed two months something completely unexpected would have to happen... just like I wrote.The only "promise" I wrote above is the "as soon as they get to it!" part, I gave a "most likely" caveat to the rest.
So pack away the snark.
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Let's worry less about what they say and more about what they do. Hopes and plans are as stable as the electrons they are written on.
So you agree that it's fruitless to complain on an internet forum about not having received a package yet and that those who haven't should settle down and just wait for it.
Complaining about it won't get the packages to anyone faster anyway since Reaper is shipping them out as fast as they can and are able to.
Good.
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Just as fruitless as complaining about those that are complaining.
As for saying they are working as hard as they can, well again that is just saying they are. We have no idea if they are or not.
Saying they should be done by the end of the month would only make sense if we had some idea about how fast they were working. We don't, we only have their comments that they are keeping that pace.
I would point out that for other companies though that customer feedback has helped shaped shipping practices. I remember here on Paizo, when they stuck with 3.5 (originally) and had some nice big sales of 3rd party products on sale, they were filling the orders not by first in first out, but instead which one they could complete first.
People complained that they had made bigger orders and products were getting sold out from under them while they waiting on other products (this was a sale of 3.5e materials that weren't being made anymore). Paizo realize that they had to change their shipping method to in order to serve their customers better.
So saying in the generic case that complaining is fruitless isn't accurate. Perhaps in this case that is true, but in all cases, nope. Sometimes it is good to complain. Sometimes it helps the company and the customers.
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I ain't mad. It takes as long as it takes.
My pledge was doing reaper a favor first and foremost to jumpstart their proof of concept for plastic minis.
As a thank you for helping out, I get minis.
I'm not gonna be mad I did them the favor because there was a delay.
How does that make sense?
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I was willing to give them a month (April) because it was a heck of a deal. But it's May now. I also question halting shipping to have their little Con. It would have been better to delay the Con until the shipments are done. People gave them $3 million. Fulfillment of their promise should be the priority over everything else.
Use some of the money to hire temps as suggested above.
The Con actually didn't hurt them that much, people were able to pick up their vampire pledges, paint sets and figure cases at the con, meaning a lot less orders that needed to be shipped in total.
Also, the original plan was that they would be complete before the con, but the Vampire pledges were held up in customs for 2-4 weeks. last we heard they were fulfilling faster than they anticipated.
By the time the kickstarter was started, the con already had people committed to being there (both attendees and sculptors/painters). These people had paid hundreds of dollars for plane tickets and hotels on top of the con price, and said plane tickets may not be refundable. By the time they knew customs were holding up the largest part of the vast number of pledges, many of those attendees would not have been able to reschedule time off. Are you saying that they should have been out of $hundreds of dollars each because of customs, when the solution they chose doesn't cost anyone anything, except for reaper to get off-site storage while the con went on? They chose to save many customers money, and you're yelling at them for it.
Well all the people complaining are right.
Reaper should have fulfilled their responsibilities to those people who gave them money for the Kickstarter in a timely fashion. For whatever reason they havent yet and people are upset.
Me personally? It was still so great of a deal and I'm not that impatient that I'm not willing to just simply wait to get my minis. Having worked in retail and done some shipping myself I know it's not as easy to get out that many orders as people think it is. I know that customers generally dont care about details and logistics and they want what they want and they want it now. I get that.
But to say that Reaper should have cancelled their con in order to get the Kickstarter orders out was...special. Renege on their responsibilities to one group of customers to fulfill obligation to another? Yes, because that always works.
If I were a different kind of person and dissatisfied with how Reaper is running their business I'd send them a strongly worded e-mail and ask for my money back and be done with them. I'd do THAT instead of going on a message board and laying into them in a public forum.
Hey wait that's EXACTLY the kind of person I am. Not so much with some others though.
Personally I am not interested in my money back, I would just like my miniatures in a timely fashion. And no, I didn't give them more than $200 out of the goodness of my heart in order to "help them out". I did a rational transaction, money for product. I have fulfilled my part of the agreement in a timely fashion, I don't think it is unreasonable or disrespectful to expect them to do their part in a timely fashion as well.
As for canceling the Con, well I agree that would have been silly. But it strikes me as kind of silly to completely stop shipping during that time as well. Greatly reduced the staff and rate of shipping sure, but a complete stop for almost 2 weeks, when you are already behind schedule seems ... unprofessional IMHO.
I am not angry, I am disappointed. I'm sure once I get the product in hand, I will be quite happy. But some of the materials are promised to a friend, who may be moving soon. Had the products been in hand reasonably close to the estimated delivery date (the March estimate was for delivery not shipping), then there would have been no problem. Now I have to consider the very real possibility that my friend will move before I can give him his items. Now due to the company's delay, I may not be able to fulfill my commitments in a timely fashion. That makes me look bad.
I think that Reaper is going the wrong direction with information. More information for customers has always been the best policy in my experience. Keeping details hidden because some people are going to be upset if they knew they will be the last ones is silly. It doesn't even have to be really exact, maybe just once a week with, "We are about 20% done with the orders." So at least people can get some kind of feel for how things are progressing. For all we know they have only shipped out 1% of the orders due to shipping out their normal stock and these. That probably isn't the case, but do we really know for certain? Why be so secretive?
Just as fruitless as complaining about those that are complaining.
As for saying they are working as hard as they can, well again that is just saying they are. We have no idea if they are or not.
What Reaper is actually doing right now
Missing:
- cigars
- hookers
- blow
I mean c'mon dude! We don't know they are working as hard as they can because they only say that? Really? And I thought *I* was a cynical jerk!
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As for canceling the Con, well I agree that would have been silly. But it strikes me as kind of silly to completely stop shipping during that time as well. Greatly reduced the staff and rate of shipping sure, but a complete stop for almost 2 weeks, when you are already behind schedule seems ... unprofessional IMHO.
How? all of the bones stock needed to be moved out of the warehouse so they could set up the Con (the con is held on the only floorspace they have, which os the same as they had for shipping) they had to move all of the bones to a storage locker during this time, blocks away from the any computer to be able to scan barcodes or look up what someone ordered, and blocks away from the shipping containers to be able to ship them.
How? all of the bones stock needed to be moved out of the warehouse so they could set up the Con (the con is held on the only floorspace they have, which os the same as they had for shipping) they had to move all of the bones to a storage locker during this time, blocks away from the any computer to be able to scan barcodes or look up what someone ordered, and blocks away from the shipping containers to be able to ship them.
Wait. They moved the stock out. Held the Con. And then moved the stock back in. And they were already behind before doing this. Maybe if they ever get into this situation again, they should rent out the airport Hilton conference rooms and just show slides. I mean how many days were wasted just packing the stuff up and then unpacking it a second time?
I mean c'mon dude! We don't know they are working as hard as they can because they only say that? Really? And I thought *I* was a cynical jerk!
To be clear that was a response to another poster saying something to the effect of, "You shouldn't go by what they say, but what they do. So if you believe what they said that was your fault."
I just hope mine won't arrive when I'm on vacation.
I am 100% sure it WILL be held in customs, who will require me to PERSONALLY fetch it (paying any taxes) within 7 days, lest the whole shebang will be sent back to Reaper... so, if my triple vampire arrives during my vacation (unless it's in the final week), I'm pretty much screwed.
How? all of the bones stock needed to be moved out of the warehouse so they could set up the Con (the con is held on the only floorspace they have, which os the same as they had for shipping) they had to move all of the bones to a storage locker during this time, blocks away from the any computer to be able to scan barcodes or look up what someone ordered, and blocks away from the shipping containers to be able to ship them.
I thought they had built a huge addition onto their building just to handle the KS (and house the new mold injection machine). I seriously doubt they moved anything anywhere.
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They should have stated at the beginning that shipping would begin in May, thereby avoiding the conflict with the con entirely. They just didn't think it through, and the (relative) lack of communication about the delay isn't helping.
I did my part. I gave them the money they requested. I even ignored a month's delay. But they are two months late, now. They haven't kept up with their end of the deal. That's bad customer service. Period.
Obviously, your mileage may vary.
Of course at the beginning when all this started they thought 8 months would be plenty of time for this to happen.
So what is the next step? Is this just b%@%! n' moan time?
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I just hope mine won't arrive when I'm on vacation.
I am 100% sure it WILL be held in customs, who will require me to PERSONALLY fetch it (paying any taxes) within 7 days, lest the whole shebang will be sent back to Reaper... so, if my triple vampire arrives during my vacation (unless it's in the final week), I'm pretty much screwed.
You could contact Reaper and ask them to delay yours until you get back.
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They should have stated at the beginning that shipping would begin in May, thereby avoiding the conflict with the con entirely. They just didn't think it through, and the (relative) lack of communication about the delay isn't helping.
I did my part. I gave them the money they requested. I even ignored a month's delay. But they are two months late, now. They haven't kept up with their end of the deal. That's bad customer service. Period.
Obviously, your mileage may vary.
So getting 100 times the response to their kickstarter than what they were expecting isn't a valid reason in your mind for it to take longer to ship everything? There's no way anyone could have predicted that this would end up being the 3rd largest kickstarter of all time. They really didn't see it coming, and as someone who spent over a decade in the mail order industry, I know how overwhelming that type of sudden increase in business can be. I've seen several mail order companies go out of business from growing too fast like this! Remember the .com crash 10 years ago?
From what I've seen they're handling the sudden, unexpected 100,000% increase in business at least as well as any other company in the entire history of the mail order industry.
New update posted. Reaper currently waiting on shipment of next wave of stuff from China.
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New update posted. Reaper currently waiting on shipment of next wave of stuff from China.
to add a bit of detail
"You know we've been partnering with a company in China to manufacture your Bones figures. They sent us the first of several staggered shipments for fulfillment: five shipping containers with the Vampire boxed sets. We've received and processed those containers, even renting more storage space to hold it all. We also broke down a number of those vampire boxes to process add-ons that were included within the Vampire box. Then we started fulfillment, and we blasted through several thousand pledges much more quickly than we anticipated.Now we're waiting on shipment two from China. These containers include many of the larger add-ons. We have documentation that we will receive them any day. As soon as we do, we'll continue fulfilling the orders that include the items that arrive in this wa ve of containers. We didn't expect to go so fast with the first wave, and China took longer to ship wave two than originally promised.
On the bright side, if past performance is any indication, there won't be a huge turnaround time between our receipt of the Bones and shipping them to you. Once we get to your order, our system will send you an email with tracking information for our US customers and a customs confirmation number for our international customers.
tl;dr: We've shipped all we can and are waiting for more stuff from China so we can send out the rest. We'll email when we fill your order.
There isn't anything we would rather be doing that sending you your stuff, and we will be resuming that process as soon as humanly possible.
We appreciate your continued patience and again thank you for your support.
Sincerely,
Ed Pugh
CEO, Reaper Miniatures"
Is what my email said, besides the first part about Canadian customs and Reaper working out a deal to absorb the duty costs (and how customs has drug it's feet on the whole deal).
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Then they should have bumped back the delivery date before the KS closed.
I find it amazing how many of you are defending a company that's clearly screwed up their delivery date. In the real world, missing deadlines has consequences. Why should Reaper be immune?
It's put a damper on an otherwise excellent KS.
Tell you what, if you're so dismayed by the whole thing I'll make you an offer.
I'll pay you an additional 10% on top of what you pledged (via PayPal) and you'll change the shipping address on your pledge to my address.That way you'll get more than your money back and you won't have to worry about any more delays.
Deal?
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Reading this thread reminds me why some are worried that epople who pledge are starting to think of Kickstarter as an order system. Kickstarter is not an on-line store. It does not have the same obligations of an on-line store. Go back and read the legalese you agreed to when you signed up and pledged. The estimated delivery dates are just that, estimates. Th eperson or company who offers the Kickstarter does not have to meat that date per say. They do agree they will, at some point, send out what they offered. But Kickstarter is an investment tool.
One other thought, two months "late" is nothing in Kickstarter terms. Go look at the number fo Kickstarters that are over a year late. You guys who are upset, should use care in the future before you pledge. You should not let the idea of great reward cloud your minds. Only pledge what you are willing to let ride.
Just my .02
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These miniatures could have been free and someone would have found something to get wound up about.
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Then they should have bumped back the delivery date before the KS closed.
I find it amazing how many of you are defending a company that's clearly screwed up their delivery date. In the real world, missing deadlines has consequences. Why should Reaper be immune?
It's put a damper on an otherwise excellent KS.
They're being defended because they are a small company that has spent years building up a loyal and dedicated fanbase through excellent customer service, quality products and dedication to giving as much to the customer as possible.
*I* find it amazing that all of that can be completely forgotten because some nerds have to wait an extra month for their freaking toys but then I have never been let down by the pettiness and vindictiveness of the 'typical gamer'.
Then they should have bumped back the delivery date before the KS closed.
I find it amazing how many of you are defending a company that's clearly screwed up their delivery date. In the real world, missing deadlines has consequences. Why should Reaper be immune?
It's put a damper on an otherwise excellent KS.Tell you what, if you're so dismayed by the whole thing I'll make you an offer.
I'll pay you an additional 10% on top of what you pledged (via PayPal) and you'll change the shipping address on your pledge to my address.
That way you'll get more than your money back and you won't have to worry about any more delays.
Deal?
There you go Bill - a fair deal if I ever saw one. Put up or shut up.
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It is not an extra month. It is two months and counting. March would have been on time. April, a month late. May makes two.
And that is not a bad offer. Too bad I am splitting my order with the rest of my gaming group. The fact I now look bad to them because of Reaper's incompetence adds to my ire. One member only games with us during the school year when he is here for college. He leaves in two weeks . . . Probably without his share of bones.
We will just have to agree to disagree. They dropped the ball.
Or you are one of the many people who do not understand how Kickstarter works. It's not a store front and you didn't put in an advance order.
The delivery date is an estimate (heck, it even says so right there on the page).I think one of the commentators on the latest update summed it up nicely:
I can't fathom how someone could see a $30,000 project balloon into a $3,000,000 and not immediately understand that all previous delivery estimates are now null and void. Do you have no comprehension of how the logistics of manufacturing and fulfillment work? This is two orders of magnitude bigger than goal. That's huge.
Speaking as someone who has backed well over 200 Kickstarters, this has been one of the best run, most efficient, and most effective of them.
If you can't understand that...or are horrified that this is actually a pretty damn well run campaign...then I submit that Kickstarter isn't for you. In the future you should just wait until the minis are available at your favorite game store and buy them there.
We (my gaming group and I) are also eagerly awaiting our order (or orders, since some of us pledged separate orders too). It helps to look at the bigger picture and to have a little perspective about the fact that we are talking about what is basically a non-life essential toy (if your friend goes home from school you can still just send him his part, they are very light weight minis and you have already gotten free shipping on the original order). So we're looking forward to getting it, but also know that it'll get here when it gets here (which is going to take even longer since it's shipped international).
I agree.
I am having a bit of a complain more out of disappointment that they are going to be late, but also so late taht I will miss a golden opportunity to spend June painting them up (You know, I figured April/May arrival).
Would I chuck money into another Reaper KS? Without a second thought :)
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It is not an extra month. It is two months and counting. March would have been on time. April, a month late. May makes two.
And that is not a bad offer. Too bad I am splitting my order with the rest of my gaming group. The fact I now look bad to them because of Reaper's incompetence adds to my ire. One member only games with us during the school year when he is here for college. He leaves in two weeks . . . Probably without his share of bones.
We will just have to agree to disagree. They dropped the ball.Or you are one of the many people who do not understand how Kickstarter works. It's not a store front and you didn't put in an advance order.
The delivery date is an estimate (heck, it even says so right there on the page).I think one of the commentators on the latest update summed it up nicely:
I can't fathom how someone could see a $30,000 project balloon into a $3,000,000 and not immediately understand that all previous delivery estimates are now null and void. Do you have no comprehension of how the logistics of manufacturing and fulfillment work? This is two orders of magnitude bigger than goal. That's huge.
Speaking as someone who has backed well over 200 Kickstarters, this has been one of the best run, most efficient, and most effective of them.
If you can't understand that...or are horrified that this is actually a pretty damn well run campaign...then I submit that Kickstarter isn't for you. In the future you should just wait until the minis are available at your favorite game store and buy them there.
Extremely well said. Bill, with all due respect, I think you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and direct that righteous anger elsewhere (or better yet, just let it go - life is too short to get so angry about things like this)
All things considered, Reaper is doing a fantastic job getting these minis out. We'll all get them soon enough. Seriously, please just relax :)