Stephen, can I thread a bag of holding?


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Goblin Squad Member

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Taking this separately from the Spells blog thread:

Stephen in the Spells blog thread wrote:
Yes, only equipped gear can be threaded, not things in general inventory.
Quote:
Wondrous Item slots are gear slots that you use for items that don't otherwise have a body location. There might ultimately be a big array of things to go in there, but initially it will at least include Bags of Holding and Spellbooks. You only get two, so effectively equipping a Spellbook means you're not increasing your encumbrance with a Bag of Holding or doing something else cool.

- so, a Bag of Holding in a Wondrous slot is equipped gear and therefore threadable?

- does threading the bag protect everything inside it? Does the amount of threads needed depend on the contents or only on the capacity of the bag?

(I assume and hope the bags of holding are implemented as actual containers and not as an item that simply increases your carrying capacity)

For a dedicated crafter, trader, courier/smuggler etc. the stuff kept in the bag(s) is likely more precious than the weapons and armor worn.
(and lore-wise, it isn't so far fetched that stuff hidden in extra-dimensional spaces stays out of reach for looters...)

Goblin Squad Member

Based on pretty much all of the intents of the game, I would say very highly unlikely that they would intend for the contents of a bag of holding to be protected. It is pretty clear the overall design is to have the minimal amount of "safe" items as possible. Obviously I'm not steven but my guess on possible scenerios

1. It offers a set improvement to carrying capacity, Considering the existance of the traveler's flag etc... we pretty much know for a fact that personal carrying capacity is a variable that goes up and down (IE travelers flag) So IMO the simplest and most logical way would be for a bag of holding to be a further increase to this.

2. It is threadable... and the thread cost is a variable based on the contents. IE you load up 4 weapons into the bag, to thread it you need 4 weapons worth of threads.

Goblin Squad Member

Based on he way he's phrased it, and the conversations before, my suspicions is that the bag of holding is threadable, provides a simple bonus to carrying capacity, and does not protect it's contents (because it's not actually a container)

Goblin Squad Member

Onlishi,
If threadable and protects the contents, it is virtucally identical to the secret chest spell.
If it doesn't protect the contents, a mule seems better value for money.

If it requires virtually all your threads plus a spellbook/wondrous slot, would it really be a problem? I see the business opportunity for dedicated smugglers/couriers, but not that that would be against the 'risk vs reward' spirit of the game design.

Dario: that's what i'm afraid of, yes. And that quite literally takes away some of the magic for me.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't mind if threading a Bag of Holding protects its contents so long as there isn't a whole lot of inventory space in there, which may be counter to the reality of it in the PnP. If it can be used to protect non-equipped items, it has a different use than in the PnP (unless they protect items from theft in the PnP?), but is still significant.

It makes sense to me that a harvesting character could protect some of his more valuable resources in exchange for potentially losing more of his harvesting gear (fewer available threads) AND using up a Wondrous Item slot.

It seems fine either way, to me.

Goblin Squad Member

randomwalker wrote:

Onlishi,

If threadable and protects the contents, it is virtucally identical to the secret chest spell.
If it doesn't protect the contents, a mule seems better value for money.

If it requires virtually all your threads plus a spellbook/wondrous slot, would it really be a problem? I see the business opportunity for dedicated smugglers/couriers, but not that that would be against the 'risk vs reward' spirit of the game design.

Dario: that's what i'm afraid of, yes. And that quite literally takes away some of the magic for me.

Well assuming you can actually put a decent load of items inside... yes.

The spells and item in P&P are not relevant to this discussion, in P&P logisics of transfering goods from X to Y are irrelevant, crafting is done by turning gold into items etc... Yes in P&P keeping all items safe is trivial, as is moving 10 full sets of armor half way across the world.

The reason there are benefits for the traveler flag, is the dev's are trying to encorage people to travel in methods that have risk...

Almost every situation described by the dev's wants limited benefit in traveling with nothing to lose, and when exporting goods... there is virtually no tradeoff in going unarmored and weaponless in the event that you have no reason to care if you die.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't mind if the Bag of Holding is threaded, nor do I care if the items in it are threaded. As long as they do not surpass your maximum threading ability, it is not an issue.

It is a "Bag of Holding", meant to allow you to hold more stuff. It is not a "Bag of Threading", which does not exist, but if it did it would allow you to thread more stuff.

Goblin Squad Member

I agree with Bluddwolf. Lets say in a "RP" sense, I happen to kill you, for whatever reason, and I check your corpse/bags for anything I may be able to take. Would that not also include the Bag of Holding which I would open up to discover to be a bag of holding (looking as a normal bag before I open it). Now unless there is a "command" to be able to pull objects by name from the bag, or if it's more of a open a small bag and it hold everything inside like a large bag, is what would make the difference, to me. I don't have a lot of knowledge or experience with it, as I'm still newer to DnD and Pathfinder.

Goblin Squad Member

Can't find the right reference just now (Nihimongo-failure), but I believe that player-looting is still going to be random. To me that still says "if it's threaded, it's safe, if it's not, your enemy'll get 'something', and the rest remains on your corpse until it goes away".

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Speaking of bags of holding, Can you put a bag of holding in a portable hole to create a planar rift? Might be a valid suicide-bomber technique to use in battle.

Goblin Squad Member

Portable holes would make sieges was too easy. Every time I think of that magic item, all I can picture is the Road Runner cartoon where they had one.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Hobs the Short wrote:
Portable holes would make sieges was too easy. Every time I think of that magic item, all I can picture is the Road Runner cartoon where they had one.

A portable hole doesn't work that way in TT. It just opens a 6ft diameter x 10ft deep cylinder of non-dimensional space. It's basically a giant bag of holding.

Goblin Squad Member

Ah...the other sounds more fun. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

It would be nice if merchants could thread bags of holding. Unless I am mistaken, killers can only loot 1 or 2 items off of you anyway?

This assumes that a bag would have some weight limit or could not hold as much as a wagon.

I mean come on! Isn't having to run back to where you died to continue your trip, likely losing all of your unthreaded goods, and having to deal the the next bandits just around the bend enough of "an immersive open PVP experience"?

Let them get through with something for market if they choose to resist bandits. I mean a defiant merchant is a viable character role too. =D

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:
I mean a defiant merchant is a viable character role too. =D

I agree, but in most cases the defiant merchant will have hired guards (NPC or even PCs). They will take their chances with combat, and in some cases, they will win.

But, back to the bag of holding issue....

The Bag of Holding could be htreaded, but not all of its contents. Or at the very elast, only up to what you could thread in total.

As I wrote earlier, "It is not a "Bag of Threading", it is a Bag of Holding." That is two very different functions.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Bringslite wrote:
I mean a defiant merchant is a viable character role too. =D

I agree, but in most cases the defiant merchant will have hired guards (NPC or even PCs). They will take their chances with combat, and in some cases, they will win.

But, back to the bag of holding issue....

The Bag of Holding could be htreaded, but not all of its contents. Or at the very elast, only up to what you could thread in total.

As I wrote earlier, "It is not a "Bag of Threading", it is a Bag of Holding." That is two very different functions.

I agree that the item is named "Bag of Holding" not "Bag of Threading". However I don't think you know that that is the case just because YOU stated it earlier. I see that there are problems (from a bandit's point of view) with the idea of a merchant getting away with any goods if he resists a generous SAD offer. (Is that last passive/agressive enuf?) =D

Still what happens when the Bag's items revert to your backpack on death? Does the stuff that won't fit fall to the ground or just disappear? Is stuff on the ground up for grabs?

I could go on all day with questions that can't be answered yet. Seems like there could be all kinds of problems if the threaded item is not threading what it contains.

There are only 2 slots for Wonderous Items and I doubt that they will carry a wagon full of stuff anyway. Why not let merchants get away with some of their hard earned stuff? It may keep many players from quitting from frustration.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:
There are only 2 slots for Wondrous Items and I doubt that they will carry a wagon full of stuff anyway. Why not let merchants get away with some of their hard earned stuff? It may keep many players from quitting from frustration.

Because all your stuff are belong to Bluddwolf, and the magic gaming fairy will make his victims keep coming back for more.

Goblin Squad Member

I think it would be fool-hardy for any bandit to keep smashing the same people. All it will do is make them hire a company or become part of a kingdom capable of giving the bandits a Bad Day.

I am figuring that hideout are decidedly less difficult to destroy than a settlement, just harder to find.

Goblin Squad Member

If a bag if holding allowed you to exceed your threading capacity, than everyone would have one or want to have one. It would be the most valuable item in the game and would send shock waves through the player made economy.

It is not really worth arguing the point because there is little chance the Devs would introduce an item that allows us to protect more than our allotted threaded items. Just as they would likely bit allow for a skill that would allow a player to sever threads, beyond what the Devs have already stated.

There is only one group that wants all of the stuff. That is the group that wants no player looting at all. I have read the posts by several already who whine, about how it is I fare that others can steal their stuff that they worked so hard to get. That is just not a PvP MMO. It also ignores the fact that bandits have to live by the same rules as well. We can have our stuff stolen too. Won't have it any other way.

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen said that only equipped items can be threaded:

Stephen Cheney wrote:
...only equipped gear can be threaded, not things in general inventory.

That might settle the Bag of Holding.

Goblin Squad Member

@Bluddwolf I am not going to discuss this with you anymore. Not because you have convinced me that you are right. Simply because I am becoming bored. Why should I discuss something that niether side can prove, when you are calling it whining. Just seems like a waste of time.

Forgive me for saying this, but some of the ways that you argue your points seem like you think you know exactly what the Devs are planning. I highly doubt that you do. It also seems that you argue from only a bandit mentality. A bandit that has found a game that is going to give him some of the stuff he always wanted and more if he argues hard enough... Good luck with that *Tips Hat*

Bringslite

Goblin Squad Member

@Bringslite,

I don't specifically quote posts that whine about stealing because then the poster feels I am personally attacking them, instead of the system that they are asking fit. I also was not referring to a post in this thread, and not directing it at you either. The whining posts were actually in another thread, by two different posters.

As for my opinion on what I doubt the Devs will do, it is simply that, an opinion. I never stated what they will do, only what I doubted the would do. What do I base my opinion on? The Devs have said what the threading system is meant to do. Jazz, just above you actually posted a snip of one of the Dev's comments.

Although I feel a bag of holding could be threaded as an item, its contents should not unless they are a part of your selected use of threading. This is not a statement of fact, just an opinion. The reason I feel this is how it should be, or better yet, why I feel the bag of holding if used the way you inquired about is simple. I feel that the bag if holding would be used to circumvent the threading restrictions, making it virtually impossible to loot anything from PCs. If that were to happen, death would be even more inconsequential and then we'd might as well be playing an arcade game with infinite lives and on God Mode.

I will argue against anything that moves PFO further from it being an Open World PvP, sand box MMO. I also argue for classes or at least the collection of skills that could make up a " class " in its traditional definition to be sble to play that role.

Bandits steal; Assassins backstab for critical damage; Bounty Hunters apprehend criminals and fugitives; Monks use unarmed combat; Paladins fight evil; etc

Every on of the classes listed above, I have supported them being able to play their classes the way they were or are traditionally played. I actually only intend to play TEO of them myself. I feel the game will be better served if players ate given the opportunity and freedom to play their characters with fewer limitations, not more.

I have made the argument that there is more fear around the shifting of alignment and the loss of reputation, than there is for character death. I don't believe that, if intended, is a good model. What this may accomplish is that players will be limited in what they do, except for throwing their Characters's life away.

In Age of Conan, death became a form of fast travel. In Eve the suicide gank became the pirates choice of attack; in DDO you would run in kill a few, die, respawn return kill a few more, and so on.... No real need to group.

So, if I come off strongly, it is not directed at any one individual or at least I try not to make it so. I am just stating opinions and pointing out directions that I believe take PFO away from what I believe it could be, and turn it into what other games already are.... Boring, consequence free, theme park MMOs.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:

@Bluddwolf I am not going to discuss this with you anymore. Not because you have convinced me that you are right. Simply because I am becoming bored. Why should I discuss something that niether side can prove, when you are calling it whining. Just seems like a waste of time.

Forgive me for saying this, but some of the ways that you argue your points seem like you think you know exactly what the Devs are planning. I highly doubt that you do. It also seems that you argue from only a bandit mentality. A bandit that has found a game that is going to give him some of the stuff he always wanted and more if he argues hard enough... Good luck with that *Tips Hat*

Bringslite

It is unfortunate but there are several people on these boards who consider everything that does not agree with there narrow view of what the game should be "whining"

They find it far easier to insult, belittle, and harass people of opposing viewpoints than actually trying to have an honest discussion about the issues, or as the devs put it, crowdforging.

Goblin Squad Member

Gosh I hate Iphones, putting in whatever it thinks you typed.

Funny how my response from a bit over an hour ago is missed and a comment less than 20 minutes ago refers to a post that was made 3 hours ago.

The whining that I wrote about, was not on this thread, by anyone in this thread, but it was related to this topic and I brought it up. This is why I specifically did not directly quote the post that I was writing about.

I have also found that by by linking the specific quote, when I am criticizing its content, it is often taken as an attack on the person, so I try to avoid using the person's name.

So it is not belittling if a person's name is not used. It is not an insult to argue against someone's position. It is not harrassment to disagree with a view point, without using the person's name and not even in the same thread.

I agrue my points based on what I understood the Devs to say in their blgs, and in this case Jazzlvraz provided the post:

Quote:

Stephen Cheney wrote:

...only equipped gear can be threaded, not things in general inventory.

This is not me seeming to know exactly what the devs are planning, but what the devs have written.

Goblin Squad Member

Based on the fact that you can dedicate your belt slot to a spell component pouch (as mandated for complex wizard spells according to the blog) I imagine it should be equally possible to dedicate a bag of holding to your belt slot. Even if you cannot, I believe using a Wondrous Item slot would be equally valid.

Equipped enough?

Now, my overall opinion on this is objects within a bag of holding should be protected, if the bag itself is threaded. If it is loaded and simply sitting in the inventory - well, that should count as a single item when looting, so it's potentially very lucrative. They get the bag itself, plus any of the contents you left in it.

As for the cost of threading, or the number of threads a bag of holding might take - I think GW is most likely to create different power level of the items, and will attach an appropriate thread count according to its extradimensional volume. It's still a powerful magical item, even if it's empty, and therefore costs a lot of threads - but when it's full, you are very likely 'saving' threads on the things you don't want to lose.

This sounds good to me, and I can now easily picture 'pure' merchant types forgoing armor and weapons in order to carry three hefty bags of holding, where they keep their most precious trade items. I see a lot of appeal in that.

Goblin Squad Member

I could see this working ONLY if you couldn't add or remove items to the BoH after being attacked. Otherwise you will just get characters threading the BoH and shoving all their gear into it when they work out they're going to be on the losing end of a PK.

Interestingly, this ability would make SAD more crucial than outright killing a character.

Goblin Squad Member

Jiminy wrote:

I could see this working ONLY if you couldn't add or remove items to the BoH after being attacked. Otherwise you will just get characters threading the BoH and shoving all their gear into it when they work out they're going to be on the losing end of a PK.

Interestingly, this ability would make SAD more crucial than outright killing a character.

I'm not sure it would lead to more SADS, it could lead to the opposite, but I will explain.

First, bandits using Outlaw Flag and from a hideout can see the relative strength of their traget, including its equipment.

Ok, we see that this merchant has a bag of holding, with all of its contents.

Next, we demand the Bag of Holding and its contents as the main part of the SAD. We would always do this, because the bag itself would be insanely valuable (perhaps the most in demand item in the game, Hell we will be carrying them ourselves to haul off the loot we rob.

If the merchant accepts the SAD, we get the bag and its contents. Easy loot to carry away as well, win - win.

If the merchant declines to include the BOH, we kill him and his group. We have a chance to get the BOH anyway, but even if it does not come to us (remains threaded), it is destroyed with the rest of the stuff we do not take (Ref. Dev Blog on what happpens to items not taken in SAD).

The way I see it, the merchant will always lose the BOH and its contents. He either gives it up, loses it by chance or it is destroyed with the rest of the untaken loot.

This could lead to merchants fearing to even carry a BOH, because it will be the "Red Flag" for bandits to not pass him up.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't quite recall bandits being able to see all your equipment. I thought it was just you could see people were moving nearby. Further, you seem to mix those two together, but I think the seeing people traveling is ONLY the hideout, and offering SADs is ONLY the Outflag, but I don't think they interact directly. It just makes sense to use both, if you're a bandit.

Also, if it's threaded, it won't be destroyed when you loot him, as far as I understand. That's half the point of threading: can't be looted, can't be destroyed.

Third, even if it was the most in demand item, that doesn't automatically make it valuable. If it's cheap to craft, the market would be filled with them to meet demand. So it depends on how rare the materials to make it would be.

Still, I agree Bags of Holding probably shouldn't protect their contents, kinda seems like that misses the whole point of the current system. Not unless it's balanced out some how, like taking threads for all the items inside. That kinda makes it an item to let you use a wondrous item slot to thread non-equipped goods, but I think it still somewhat clashes with stated intentions, and would be pretty much make carrying the rarest materials pretty much perfectly safe.

Goblin Squad Member

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Summersnow wrote:

...

It is unfortunate but there are several people on these boards who consider everything that does not agree with there narrow view of what the game should be "whining"
...

Oh, no: There is an identified alternative, which is to call disagreeing arguments 'hysterical'.

It is a time-honored rhetorical device.

Goblin Squad Member

I am not surprised the thread has derailed, but just popping in to tell any drive-by devs that I am still interested in an answer.

The bag itself is equippable and threadable - that is not the question. If it allows large amounts of goods to be protected, it will be extremely valuable - that is not the question. The question is whether the bag will have designated contents and how this interacts with threading - which is what we are waiting for devs to comment on.

Maybe I could try to invoke Lee Hammock?

Goblin Squad Member

Randomwalker,

He said three times, so...Lee Hammock...Lee Hammock.

There's two more to go with your once. Let me know if there's anything else I can do. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

More from Stephen:

"Wondrous Item slots are gear slots that you use for items that don't otherwise have a body location. There might ultimately be a big array of things to go in there, but initially it will at least include Bags of Holding and Spellbooks. You only get two, so effectively equipping a Spellbook means you're not increasing your encumbrance with a Bag of Holding or doing something else cool."

It's hard to imagine, given his earlier statement about only equipped items being threadable, that the contents of a Bag of Holding will also be protected.

The Bags essentially perform the same function as a backpack, so if your killer can receive "an item or two" from your backpack, then I see every reason to expect those items being selected from all your not-directly-equipped-and-threaded inventory. The rest will, of course, remain on your corpse, and resolve under one of two conditions: you get back to your corpse "in time", or it disappears from the game when the timer runs out.

This is, of course, all my interpretation, but it seems to follow logically from the statements the various Devs have made...so far. Lee Hammock? (Maybe it takes three different people invoking ;) )

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Chaney wrote:
Once you have a spellbook that you've either handmade or acquired from another source, you can equip it into a wondrous item slot. When you use your wizard's "Spellbook" Refresh feat, your weapon attacks are replaced by the spells from the spellbook.
Stephen Cheney wrote:
Hmm, could've sworn we'd mentioned that previously. Wondrous Item slots are gear slots that you use for items that don't otherwise have a body location. There might ultimately be a big array of things to go in there, but initially it will at least include Bags of Holding and Spellbooks. You only get two, so effectively equipping a Spellbook means you're not increasing your encumbrance with a Bag of Holding or doing something else cool.

A BoH can be safely assumed to be threadable (future Dev design choices notwithstanding). Are the items within the BoH threaded with it? There is no evidence that it is or is not so. There is some evidence that it is unlikely, at this point.

Is it bad to argue that it is unlikely? No. Is it bad to argue that it is not proven that it will not be so, that you would like to see items in the BoH included when it is threaded? No. That is what this message board is all about. I would plead that we just keep it civil, please, and that goes for both sides of all the discussions in any thread. Otherwise you may make me cry. :(

Now, no one (that I have seen) has speculated on this. If items in a threaded BoH are not included and my backpack is full, do they just fill my dead corpse? That would seem wierd but I could see it as convenient for the programmers. Do they just spill out and fall to the ground? If on the ground are they then up for grabs? Wierd. What then is the value of a BoH over a (likely) higher capacity wagon? Besides maybe rate of travel.

Killers (so far) can only loot 1 random item off the corpse of the vanquished. You are more likely going to lose your wad being too late back to your corpse. Or, lose your wad being killed every time you come back and retrieve your gear.

By all accounts, crafting the highest quality items is going to be a proccess of skilled gathering, refining, and crafting. It will take a great deal of coordination, skill investment, time, and gold.

Why the heck would merchants transport items overland with that kinda of loss potential? Please do not say that it is a Risk vs Reward thing. That would mean that prices for even good gear will be astrinomical. How do these high prices help any but the luckiest of merchants that can endure the frustration of their losses and keep running through the radar of killers.

My point is: I argue that threaded Boh should bind items inside. Even if extra threads are required. It could give the merchant the option of covering his product at the expense of his other equiped gear. It will make Boh very hard to craft and very expensive? Okay by me. =D

Goblin Squad Member

Here us another point concerning threads, that needs to be considered.

Dev Blog wrote:
However, as players advance their characters, they'll have to start making meaningful decisions about death: Will you use mostly weaker gear so you don't have to risk much of it on death? Will you bind to a lot of shrines so you're always near your corpse for a better chance to recover everything before it's looted? Or will you bind only your most prized and best gear, risking the rest?

We use up threads, not just for equipment but are also used for additional respawn points.

If you spend all of your threads on gear, you default respawn point may be further away. It may be difficult for you to return to your husk in time to prevent your items from disappearing when the timer runs out.

@Iron Vanguard

I used the term "destroyed" rather than disappeared from the game. I also forgot about the timer. It is probably detailed under the Thief Flag, yep, 5 minutes after and then the husk is free to loot without triggering the Thief Flag.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:
Why the heck would merchants transport items overland with that kinda of loss potential? Please do not say that it is a Risk vs Reward thing. That would mean that prices for even good gear will be astrinomical. How do these high prices help any but the luckiest of merchants that can endure the frustration of their losses and keep running through the radar of killers.

Please refer to the Dev Blog: The Most Dangerous Game

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Bringslite wrote:
Why the heck would merchants transport items overland with that kinda of loss potential? Please do not say that it is a Risk vs Reward thing. That would mean that prices for even good gear will be astrinomical. How do these high prices help any but the luckiest of merchants that can endure the frustration of their losses and keep running through the radar of killers.
Please refer to the Dev Blog: The Most Dangerous Game

Lol! How does the developement Blog differ from your quote of my statement? The reward for the lucky merchant will be great. Oh, I forgot to include that the reward is great for the bandit in any case. Maybe that is because I was considering that the reward for the consumer and the unlucky merchant will be low.

If you are a merchant and you plan to succeed by luck, well then...

Goblin Squad Member

Jazzlvraz wrote:
Can't find the right reference just now (Nihimongo-failure), but I believe that player-looting is still going to be random.

I think that your killer will see all of your unthreaded gear, and pick 1 or 2 items. I'll try to find a quote when I have more time.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:

Lol! How does the developement Blog differ from your quote of my statement? The reward for the lucky merchant will be great. Oh, I forgot to include that the reward is great for the bandit in any case. Maybe that is because I was considering that the reward for the consumer and the unlujcky merchant will be low.

If you are a merchant and you plan to succeed by luck, well then...

The Dev Blog mentions more than just luck. You can be more proactive than just crossing your fingers. You can hire guards or you can coordinate your efforts with other members of your company / settlement as well.

Neither a merchant or a bandit strikes me as being a solo operation. Sure you can do it solo, but then you are exposed to greater risk, but then all of the reward is also yours.

But this is off topic for the Bag of Holding thread.

Seems to me more likely than not that items in bag can be threaded, but they count towards your total allotted threads. I also discovered that your Rez points come from the same pool of threads. That last point is a positive for me, I have to admit.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
I also discovered that your Rez points come from the same pool of threads. That last point is a positive for me, I have to admit.

Yessir, I can't blame you for liking that!

Goblin Squad Member

I thought it was when you loot a corpse, a random selection of non-threaded items on them appear, you can take some or all, then the rest are destroyed. A character re spawns with threaded items, and nothing else. A player can only reclaim all their items if they are not looted. If they do get back in time though, unlooted, they get everything.

If I'm right, that is.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Seems to me more likely than not that items in bag can be threaded, but they count towards your total allotted threads.

I'm not sure how likely it is that items in a Bag of Holding can be threaded if only "equipped" items can be threaded. Won't items in a Bag be, by definition, "not equipped"?

Goblin Squad Member

Jazzlvraz wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Seems to me more likely than not that items in bag can be threaded, but they count towards your total allotted threads.
I'm not sure how likely it is that items in a Bag of Holding can be threaded if only "equipped" items can be threaded. Won't items in a Bag be, by definition, "not equipped"?

The only arguement to that would be that the bag is equiped.... Not much of an arguement but...*shrug*

A Dev could clear this up if they wanted...unless they have not made a decision on it yet.

Goblin Squad Member

I do agree that a dev does need to show up to this one... But IMO the answer should be pretty obvious, items in the bag are unequipped... Any arguement of BoH working the other way... virtually eliminates banditry...

Why is going with absolutely nothing of worth except a full bag of holding even slightly a drawback for a merchant? Bandits lose any and all incentive to attack, as they can tell there is NOTHING they can gain. So now merchants are off the market for bandits.

So now to adventurers... Oh wait, adventurers can also use the bags of holding... So now the only thing takable from the adventurer, is his adventuring gear... Yay we caught one that just defeated a legendary X, he probably got some good loot.... too bad that's almost certainly exempt from taking it, because everyone but the wizard has a bag of holding... and the wizard probably just is having the fighter carry his share until he reaches the safety of town...

Gear and resource loss is supposed to be commonplace, not the exception when you make a HUGE mistake.

OK so lets imagine the one drawback the merchant with BoH vs naked merchant without BoH has is half capacity... He also gets a de-facto free half time trick...

Merchant delivers goods from city A to city B, carrying nothing but a threaded BoH, lets say he dies on his first trip, but hey no loss, repeat. Makes it to deliver the goods to city B, now he picks up goods from city B that need to go back to city A, and promptly suicides... Poof free instant transport.

Offering any job or task to be "lossless or riskless" transport is just rife for abuse... Heck think if phase 2... Multiboxer's shipping company... make 20 alts... pay for their XP just long enough to get enough threads for a BoH... send the swarms out to deliver... risk free.

Going on an adventurer, bring your walking safe storage box with you... Fill up his bag, and just kill him back to town... Multiboxers have never had an easier life.

The point of Caravans, Bandits, etc.... All go out the window when you introduce risk free transportation. Every idea GW has put foward has pretty much stated "a character with nothing at risk, should have little to nothing to contribute". But a bag man.... that's a risk free character with plenty to give.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

It wouldn't surprise me if encumberance and related details haven't been written yet, even if it has been deemed likely that such an item as a Bag of Holding will likely exist.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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You can equip a backpack instead of a cloak, pouches instead of a belt, and bags of holding instead of other wondrous items. The purpose of all of these is to increase your encumbrance limits for your general inventory. So:

  • Yes, you can thread them.
  • No, threading them doesn't protect what's in them (because they don't have individual contents, just a bonus to general inventory).

Goblin Squad Member

Ahhhhhh! I am undone!!!

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:

You can equip a backpack instead of a cloak, pouches instead of a belt, and bags of holding instead of other wondrous items. The purpose of all of these is to increase your encumbrance limits for your general inventory. So:

  • Yes, you can thread them.
  • No, threading them doesn't protect what's in them (because they don't have individual contents, just a bonus to general inventory).

This presents a question: What exactly are encumbrance limits in PFO? Is it simply the amount of space you have available in your backpack/pouches/bags or is it tied to weight as well? Will you have movement penalties if you carry too much? If you are stronger, can you carry more (or at least heavier) stuff?

Historically, encumbrance limits are tied to Strength. With the attributes all starting at 10, this makes those who follow martial (Fighter/Barbarian) paths will over time be able to carry for more than a similarly equipped wizard or rogue.

Goblin Squad Member

Personally, I'd rather see each item have a weight, with Encumbrance being a cap on how much weight you can carry, vice just giving you more slots to put stuff in. It seems silly to me that 50 suits a full plate is as encumbering as 50 different kinds of herb.

Goblin Squad Member

I understand the desire to have a single General Inventory space, but please allow us to use bags to organize our stuff. Ideally, we could have 2 or more bag slots on our character that we could use to swap out specific items we wanted to carry with us at different times. We should be able to swap a full bag from our inventory with a full bag from our bank without having to empty either. We should also be able to easily move all the contents of one bag into another bag. Finally, we should be able to sell full bags of stuff.

[Edit] If there is an easy way to multi-select or area-select a number of items, then this probably won't be necessary. But it would still be nice to sell a collection of different items at a single price.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for posting, Stephen. I like the choice to trade-off gear for inventory space.

Bringslite wrote:
Ahhhhhh! I am undone!!!

lol

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