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I mean, Orc is just the first thing that pops into mind when you think "magical heritage" right? Right up there with dragons and fiends right? ugh.
Of course it just has to be the go to blaster thing to have. As a fan of blasters, it really bothers me that this bloodline exists because now you have to have this dumb crossblooded sorcerer dip with a silly bloodline that shouldn't even exist from an obscure source on your Wizard or your build is sub par. /Rant
Yup, and if someone else does care too much, tell them to stop. It's your character and your enjoyment.
I think it's a bit silly - I always thought bloodlines were sort of connected to, you know, magical creatures or concepts, but hey. It strikes me as a useful tool for GMs to amp up that sub-optimal orc sorcerer boss a little though.
I hardly think a blaster wizard that fails to take that dip is sub-par, though. +1 per damage dice is pretty sweet, but blaster wizards were just fine before this bloodline was published.
And if your build is subpar, the raid leader reviews your stats and kicks you out in favor of a better optimized... oh, wait. That doesn't happen.
Don't like it? Skip it. Problem solved. Nobody cares if your character is 'optimized.' What matters is
1) You're decent at your job, and
2) You have fun.
Oh hi Calybos. We meet again. Some GMs and players do care if your build is un-optimized, and as a veteran of a shared campaign setting with many GMs and players with different styles I can say that sometimes it pays to play a character that has a mechanical edge.
I have been chastised for playing "weak" characters and I have been chastised for playing for playing 4th level characters who dominate a table full of 5th to 7th level characters. I personally have fun minmaxing and it bothers me when poorly designed corner case concepts like the orc bloodline are so mechanically superior that I feel silly for not using them. Hence, this thread.
I personally have fun minmaxing and it bothers me when poorly designed corner case concepts like the orc bloodline are so mechanically superior that I feel silly for not using them. Hence, this thread.
Oh well, sucks to be you, I guess.
I like making my concept as effective as possible, but I'd never change my concept so far that I took the orc subtype just to get that mechanical edge.
If I was playing a blaster wizard and someone derided me for not taking that crossblooded dip, I'd deride them right back.
Orc + Human have kids ... Half Orc
Half-Orc + Human have kids ... Orcblooded sorcerer?
See, if they explained it away as divine orc demigod kids ... like Gruumsh's grandkids and so on ... well now we've got something.
I think it's a bit silly - I always thought bloodlines were sort of connected to, you know, magical creatures or concepts, but hey. It strikes me as a useful tool for GMs to amp up that sub-optimal orc sorcerer boss a little though.
I hardly think a blaster wizard that fails to take that dip is sub-par, though. +1 per damage dice is pretty sweet, but blaster wizards were just fine before this bloodline was published.
It's not +1 though, it's +2 per die because of the crossblooded thing. It makes a big difference. Before feats or anything else, Delayed blast fireball deals an average of 104 damage on a Sorcerer 1/evoker 19. It deals an average of 70 damage on a evoker 20, just as a minor example.
Change your gaming group.
The example was a shared setting in which there were more than 6 different GMs with wildly different styles and a large, shifting player base with a core of about 12ish players constantly shifting from GM to GM all while playing the same characters in the same overarching setting.
However I am currently between gaming groups.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I just hate crossblooded in general, for the above reasons. :-)
First orc sorcerer:
"I felt the rage of my brothers, rage consuming me, but this body was too weak to hold the rage in, to let me swing axe and bite.
"Then I found the words, the power, the key. I did not need to contain my rage to myself, like my stronger brothers. I could share it with the world.
"And I was enlightened, and the world burned."
I'd say that sacrificing a Wizard casting level for a mediocre boost to blasting damage is not optimized at all.
And if your group is so worried about optmization, they wouldn't like you playing a Blaster anyway.
I'd say that sacrificing a Wizard casting level for a mediocre boost to blasting damage is not optimized at all.
And if your group is so worried about optmization, they wouldn't like you playing a Blaster anyway.
If you're just going for damage there is a pretty strong argument for the dip. As for blasting, it's actually pretty good if you can boost damage enough.
I should point out that I'm not actually playing a blaster. I'm complaining about the orc bloodline because I think it's a dumb concept and I feel that you are almost forced into it in order to deal high direct damage with spells. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not convinced.
I should point out that I'm not actually playing a blaster. I'm complaining about the orc bloodline because I think it's a dumb concept and I feel that you are almost forced into it in order to deal high direct damage with spells. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not convinced.
Fair enough. Personally, I choose to see it as the result of orc blood getting mixed with magical blood, like a Dragon or Elemental (It's not the orc blood itself that grants magical power, but the combination of it with something else), or just a particular bloodline that is so common among orc sorcerers that it became known as "orc bloodline"...
See, I agree with the OP as far as the concept of an Orc bloodline existing is concerned.
Most bloodlines make sense. Dragons, fiends, angels, etc are innately magical beings; either with large numbers of spell like abilities or innate racial spellcasting. Having a member of one of these races as an ancestor passing some talent through the blood to you is an interesting way to flavor where your sorcerer abilities come from.
Other bloodlines are more "line cases" but I can still make sense of (Destined, Martyred). An ancestor did something worthwhile and your bloodline has been blessed by the gods (or maybe one particular god) resulting in the sorcerer abilities you exhibit.
Orcs aren't magic. While not precisely anti-magic, their focus is on physicality and rage, no arcane powers or even faith.
It has nothing to do with the mechanics, just the thematics.
Agree with the OP on flavor: Orc bloodline sorcerers should have *penalties* to their casting.
Agree with the OP on flavor: Orc bloodline sorcerers should have *penalties* to their casting.
Orcs have penalties to being sorcerors. Isn't that enough?
The Orc bloodline embodies the raw, destructive power of the Orc warlords of old. How is that any worse than Imperious bloodline for Humans or Kobold bloodline for Kobolds?
Yes, it is mechanically...tricky. The arcana is out of balance compared to other bloodlines, but it comes with a drawback (light blindedness), which is unlike any other bloodline. The bloodline powers are not nearly as powerful as some other bloodlines, even Draconic.
My main problem with the Orc bloodline is that it's mandatory for a blaster build, usually with Crossblooded to up an element, as well. That's poor design, at best, but it relates to the massive HP ramping that has occurred through the editions.
Agree with the OP on flavor: Orc bloodline sorcerers should have *penalties* to their casting.
Careful, don't let your fluff kill the mechanics. Thats bad mojo. How many people are going to pick a bloodline that actually makes them weaker?
Meh, it's alright. The Arcana is best for blasting, sure, but the rest of the bloodline abilities don't offer much for a caster. With the Draconic bloodline you have to pick an element, but I think the bloodline abilities make up for it. You also get a better class skill and better bonus feats.
I don't believe a Blaster Sorcerer would ever really be any sort of optimal, anyway. Furthermore, you can be a perfectly good Blaster Sorcerer without going Crossblooded with the Orc bloodline.
Finally, I think this thread is far dumber than the Orc bloodline.
See, I never said that any sort of blaster is optimal (that's a different discussion), just that it seems that to be optimal at blasting (which means dealing as much direct damage as possible with spells as possible, not "controlling" the battlefield. Which despite usually being a superior option, is irrelevant to this discussion) you need to take a really cheesy dip with a poorly conceived bloodline from the figurative backwaters of Pathfinder material. Simple enough?
... you need to take a really cheesy dip with a poorly conceived bloodline from the figurative backwaters of Pathfinder material. Simple enough?
Sounds like standard 3.5 CharOp to me.
Would you dislike the bloodline less if it wasn't fluffed as 'Orc'?
I don't believe a Blaster Sorcerer would ever really be any sort of optimal, anyway. Furthermore, you can be a perfectly good Blaster Sorcerer without going Crossblooded with the Orc bloodline.
Finally, I think this thread is far dumber than the Orc bloodline.
It's one flavor of sorcerer. It gains Strength and some iffy melee powers at high levels. Seems orcish enough to me.
... you need to take a really cheesy dip with a poorly conceived bloodline from the figurative backwaters of Pathfinder material. Simple enough?Sounds like standard 3.5 CharOp to me.
Would you dislike the bloodline less if it wasn't fluffed as 'Orc'?
It wouldn't bother me as much no. I would still resent the sorcerer dip though, and I would still think the crunch was bad in that it would passively discourage other options.
Yeah, but the human one gives you several skills as class skills for it's 1st level bloodline power. Which I like a lot better then most first level bloodline powers. Also I wish they would make more bloodlines for other playable races like elves, dwarves, gnomes, catfolk, lashunta, kitsune, etc. I like the idea of being one race and then getting other player races abilities but too bad the human one only lets humans use it. I will have to check too see if the kobold one is the same way.
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Mechanics aside, I must say I have to agree with the OP, flavor-wise.
Last time I checked, a Sorcerer was able to wield magic due to some ancient or eldritch powers singing in his blood.
Like the magic of Dragons.
The Magic of Fey.
The Magic of Celestial, or Fiendish Outsiders.
Maybe Fate itself.
Or the Magic of Orcs. Yeah. Right.
Coming soon to a supplement near you: The Commoner Bloodline.
I mean, Orc is just the first thing that pops into mind when you think "magical heritage" right? Right up there with dragons and fiends right? ugh.
Of course it just has to be the go to blaster thing to have. As a fan of blasters, it really bothers me that this bloodline exists because now you have to have this dumb crossblooded sorcerer dip with a silly bloodline that shouldn't even exist from an obscure source on your Wizard or your build is sub par. /Rant
Honestly, I usually use Bloodlines through the eldritch heritage feats but reflavor them to suit my characters better and the results are usually excellent both in role-play and mechanically.
For instance, I used the Orc Bloodline for a Paladin, but reflavored 'Touch of Rage' as 'Divine Fury', 'Strength of the Beast' as 'Strength of the Righteous' and 'Power of Giants' as 'Avatar of Justice'. I've also used the bloodline via eldritch heritage to compliment a Dragon Disciple/Dragon Sorcerer I created and all it did was reflect the additional potency of his draconic blood rather than suggest an infusion of orc. Ironically, I've never used it for its spell-casting benefits...
I consider the Cross-blooded Sorcerer single-level dip + Admixture Evoker to be pure cheese as anyone should, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong or even broken. If you can look your fellow players and DM in the eye when laying out that character sheet and its fun for both you and everyone else, then why not?
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The magic of... music? Maestro bloodline.
The magic of... weather? Stormborn bloodline.
The magic of... Humans? Imperious bloodline.Honestly, if the Orc Scarred Witch doctor can handle arcane magic just by "being tough at it", I don't find it that much of a stretch that ancient Orcish RAGE burning in your blood can have any less magical effect than being a talented musician, a natural weather-man, or carrying the oh so magical blood of ancient human kings... a bloodline powered by Human Hubris.
I'm pretty sure the OP's disgust is with the min/maxing combo and its just dressed up as incredulity that this particular aspect of the game isn't 'realistic'... as opposed to all of the other races who never really existed being able to throw fireballs and turn invisible.
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Another thing ... why is Orcblooded so awesome? +1/die damage?
Abberant (level 3+) is better, having farther and farther reach for touch spells.
I mean... D-Door yourself and a buddy who's 10' away... or as a full round action do a group-buff by touch within 10' or 15' or even 20'.
Buffs do more than blasting.
Or even Arcane bloodline with all the metamagic yummyness and school DC boost.
I'm not convinced that Orc bloodline is optimal.
Optimal FOR BLASTING being the key words.
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Personally, I hate the idea of all the sorcerer bloodlines being fluffed as "somewhere in your family tree there was this really wild orgy and a magical creature got in on it". I dislike the sheer number of races that half-human too, for the same reason. I wish more of the bloodlines had been like the Destined, Dreamspun, or Undead-- your power comes from the circumstances of your birth, not who your parents were.
And for those of you complaining about the Humans' bloodline, it actually makes more sense than the Orc or Kobold bloodline. It's not that you have magic power because you're descended from human kings, it's that your ancestors were kings because they had magic power. Classic fantasy and myths are full of the long-lost sons and daughters of kings, and of the idea of "divine right to rule", that a true king really did have power not only over his subjects but over his country. An Imperious Sorcerer is just exhibiting the same force of will that his ancestor used to claim and maintain power.