Force a Cleric and modify story?


Beginner Box


Hi,

So, I've never played an RPG and neither have my friends, so I convinced everyone we should try it out. I tried reading a lot on it, and decided to give the BB a try first, see if they like it. I really loved the system and it seems like a lot of fun, so I bought the core already and I think I'll find a group somewhere if they decide they don't really like it.
The thing is, I really hope they do, obviously.. hhahaha... So I have a couple of questions.

This will be my first time GMing, and their first time playing. I just have a couple of questions.

1- Should I stick to the story as is? I was thinking the Dragon flying away in the end sounds anti-climatic.. Also, the sword was just lying there? What if they don't want to go towards it first? Those kinds of things...
I was thinking about reading one of the modules, like "Ruins" or "Relics", and modifying it so that the end reward is the sword, not sure how yet. Also, that would add more roleplaying to the game, since it seems more combat then anything else.
Just wanted to read the input on those ideas. Maybe it already has enough roleplaying and I'm not seeing it, I don't know.. What do you all think?

2- I might end up with a fighter that wants to be an archer, a rogue and a barbarian... Couldn't find a 4th yet.. The barbarian said he could play the cleric if a healer was needed, but I don't know if I should "force" a cleric out of him just to save everyone if a time of need comes.
Should I just leave some potions and tell them to play whatever they want?

Thanks a lot!


it's really tough starting totally cold. I'd say go by the book (or module in this case) until you've settled in. It's hard enough to keep track of stuff written for you, much less the changes and additions you've dropped in.

I highly recommend the Game Mastery Guide for you right off. I would also recommend surfing the pathfinder society event page for something near you, so you can get a feel for playing, and see gm'ing at work.

let players do what they want, just emphasize the use of Use Magical Device skill required, and drop alot of potions, or more practically, a Cure Light Wounds wand with a limited set of charges.

As for personal opinion, the story is everything, but also remember that this is a cooperative effort. At least 4 other people are helping to tell the story. Interact not as a competitor or nemesis of the players, but a helpful aide within the rules. Walking them through what they can do makes it alot easier when you have to say what they cannot do. As well, stay within the rules on this, don't fudge for a player's stunt.

Be honest when you've screwed up, have to change because the rules say differently, and you will find your players will reciprocate and make it more fun for everyone.


I think I used the term "module" incorrectly... I mean those addons for the BB that are free here o the site


You've a really big world ahead of you to dive into. Trust me when I say starting small is a boon and a necessity for GM's. You'll have a heap of stuff to deal with when you're players expand their knowledge soon enough.


Yeah, I get it.. probably risky to stray too far..

Game Mastery Guide is another book? Are there more rules? Not done with the Core yet, hahaha

I thought about that lack of magic on the group, but don't think it would be motivating to tell someone what class to play. He is cool with playing a cleric for the enjoyment of the group, though..
I didn't find that Use Magical Device skill in the BB. Anyone can have it? Or is it a rogue thing? Would he then know what the Cure Light Wounds wand does?

Thanks for all the tips!

Grand Lodge

Welcome! It sounds like you have a great spark to be a GM already.

One of the most important, and sometimes hardest lessons to learn as a GM is 'just roll with it.' As long as it keeps the game fun. The reason it can be a hard lesson is that everyone's idea of fun can be differently.

The GameMastery Guide is a separate hardback book (or pdf) you can buy and seriously is a fantastic resource for new GMs. It's full of the sort of stuff many of us had to learn over the years, and is a great resource for someone who is just starting to sort of benefit from the wisdom of the ages as it were.

Don't force anyone to play any class. Let the players (and characters) figure out what they like and what they need in order to be successful. On paper they need a cleric. You fight stuff, you get hurt, you need to heal. Without a cleric that's a much slower process. But if they like going back to Sandpoint every 2 encounters to beg the priests there to heal them...or maybe the priests are only willing to help to a point before they start asking the PCs to do things in return for them (like new quests/adventures). Also, at the end of your first session talk to everyone about what they did play and allow them to change it for something else if they didn't enjoy it. Maybe someone thought being a Rouge would be awesome, and then find it's not to their liking, etc.

There is a thread here where Sean K. Reynolds (one of the Paizo rules designers) suggested how to make Use Magic Device work as a trained Rogue skill for Beginner Box. You can find that here.

As for adding the dragon sword into Relics for example sure thing just replace the real shepherd’s crosier with the sword and run it as is.


For a first time definitly let them play whatever they want and let them switch if they made the wrong choise.
One of the first party's I played with didn't have a cleric, the DM had an NPC cleric "walk along" with us. (He basicly healed and did knowledge religion, later on a new player took him over and he became an character.)
If things are hard without one you could consider it.

If I where you I would stick to the story line. If you want more role playing, you could at a friendly NPC that is willing to talk. But the most important thing is to get your players to talk in character. Not "my character says he'd like to investigate" but "I'd like look at that door".
Last bit of advice, ask the players for feedback about the session.


Dot.


To answer your first question; that is the risk of playing a game where you have to make choices. Sometimes your players will make really stellar choices that surprise even you and work out exceptionally well for them. Sometimes they'll make choices with some pretty major consequences - it's all part of the game.

To answer your second question, let me give you some advice from nearly twenty years of gaming on both sides of the screen.

NEVER, EVER, EVER FORCE A PLAYER TO PLAY A CHARACTER THEY DON'T WANT TO PLAY.

Under no circumstances should that ever be your first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or even last choice. Believe me when I say I understand that it is very easy to see an unbalanced party and kneejerk into "Someone has to give up their character idea and play this instead." But that won't fix anything; all you're doing is setting your group up for a disaster later down the road when the player that you tore the rug out from under of gets too resentful to enjoy the game. One person not having fun can ruin an entire campaign.

The good news is, that in Pathfinder, there are PLENTY of more appropriate ways to help a party that lacks a character concept. Consider the following, and see if any might work for your session.

1) The players make friends with or hire an NPC of the appropriate class. This method works well in that it provides the players with skills that they need, and it provides you - the GM - with a believable outlet to nudge your players along if they get too sidetracked or they get stumped on a clue and are getting frustrated. The downside is that a realistic NPC would not hop on board for no treasure or a pitiful share of the treasure, especially if the PC's are low-level and lack the reputation or intimidation power to force the issue.

2) You can drop extra healing items as has been noted above by other posters. A good option is to include additional healing potions in the loot, because these are easily used by all characters. If you have a player that understands the virtues of the Use Magic Device skill, you can then include more powerful items such as wands and scrolls.


Agree with Daniel. Never force players, especially new players, to take a class or character type that doesn't interest them. It defeats the purpose of (a) having fun today, and (b) getting them interested in playing again in the future.

If you wind up with an all-warriors party, or all elves, or all Chaotic Neutrals, so be it. Roll with it and make adjustments. If they have no healer, give them an NPC sidekick who heals, or access to a friendly temple, or enough gold to buy some healing items. If they're all cloth-wearing squishies, let them hire mercenaries or have them face off with swarms of low-powered critters instead of a couple of impervious juggernauts. And so on.


Ok, thanks for all the help..

I think I got another friend interested and he might play a Wizard, so at least there might be someone using magic. That probably will help and I can try just having a wand there somewhere..
That was also a good point about talking to them after the game to see if they enjoyed their PCs.. Maybe this is just a problem now but someone will decide they'd like to use magic and play a more support focused class.. Idk, I'll figure it out.. But definitely no forcing a class then, hahahhaa...

I'll still decide about the sword being just there or adding something else, not sure yet, but appreciate all the input. Since I'm running my first adventure in a week (hopefully), I might just follow that adventure without a lot of modifications so that I can do the basics correctly, before advancing..

One other question about the +1 DRAGON-BANE LONGSWORD; does it deal 1d8 +1 + STR usually and 1d8 + 2d6 +3 +STR against dragons? Or 2d6 +3 +STR against dragons? What does not apply on crit? I just got that 1d8 out of the normal Longsword, but I'm kind of lost otherwise.. 1d8+2d6+3+STR sounds like a lot of damage, hahaha..


I probably won't put a Cleric NPC, since I 'm not all that confident in my GM skills just yet to juggle that as well, but it does sound like a solution for a future, maybe.. Hopefully my friend will decide to play the Wizard and the wand will be enough.

Grand Lodge

The Jan wrote:
One other question about the +1 DRAGON-BANE LONGSWORD; does it deal 1d8 +1 + STR usually and 1d8 + 2d6 +3 +STR against dragons? Or 2d6 +3 +STR against dragons? What does not apply on crit? I just got that 1d8 out of the normal Longsword, but I'm kind of lost otherwise.. 1d8+2d6+3+STR sounds like a lot of damage, hahaha..

You've pretty much got it right:

Fighting a goblin, it would do 1d8 + 1 + STR or on a crit: 2d8 + 2 + 2STR
Fighting a dragon, it would do 1d8 + 3 + STR + 2d6 or on a crit: 2d8 + 6 + 2STR + 2d6

It's an average of 14 + STR damage per hit. It does sound like a lot of damage, but when you realize that Black Fang has a 21 AC and 54 HP...a fighter with a 16 STR would still need to hit him an average of 4 times to kill him. Black Fang on the other hand...could average 20 points a round (bite and 2 claws), and your main line fighter is likely to have much fewer than 54 HP :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

In addition to dropping Potions of Cure Light Wounds or a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, you can introduce other healing magic.

You could change an empty room in the dungeon to have a magic pool that cures 2d6 points of damage, but only once per day per PC. Or maybe a tree with magic apples, magic mushrooms, magic bear jerky, a magic crystal that lets anyone use Cure Light Wounds 3/day, a magic blanket that heals 10 hit points a night, a magic glove that lets non-magic-users to use magic wands (or just magic healing wands!!!), etc. etc. etc.

You can introduce a magic puppy that has Lay on Hands (by puppy dog licks) like a paladin, but doesn't fight or talk or anything.

So there are lots of options to provide magical healing. There are also lots of options for filling other "niches" not filled by the party, like utility magic,blasting magic, divination magic, ranged attacks, melee attacks, trapfinding, people-skills, knowledge-skills, mobility-skills, etc. etc.

But one of the great advantages of having a fighter-archer, a rogue, and a barbarian as your party is that magic will seem super wonderful and mysterious. The PCs don't need to learn all the rules for spells, so you can be a little rules-lite on magic if you want to or need to.


I've given my players a "replenishing salve of soothing"; it has X (say, 10) uses per day of CLW which anyone can use. It works just like a potion of CLW (1d8 + 1 HP) and it recharges every night back to full (or if you want, maybe only gains half of its charges back each night, so they need to try and not get murdered for it to get back to full).

In the full game, there's a skill called Use Magical Devices that lets a non-magic person (like a rogue) use magical items like wands and scrolls. It isn't easy and requires a skill check, but it is usually enough to get most parties through the 'no full healer' problem. Since Beginner's Box doesn't have it, you'll have to make up something like the salve or some of SmiloDan's suggestions (heh, healing puppies)

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