Is there another class as neutered as a wizard that loses 1 item?
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A Blackblade/kensai who looses his sword. Ouch on that
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Sorcs with arcane bond that picked item and lost it
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You can also snag the material component pouch off anyone who uses spell components. Several spells requires focuses. Witch's familiar, and the arcane bonded weapon would be a major loss.
I should note that all or nothing is awful balance.
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[Insert class dependent on a central item here*]
*This list could include, but is not limited to:
-The Fighter
-Any Archer Build
-The Witch
-The Cleric
-The Druid
-The Bladebound Magus
-The Monk, in general
Turns out, if you ruin people's class abilities they kind of suck. Who'd have thought?
Fighter sans weapon
Ridiculous utility, versatility and overall power should indeed have a significant drawback. Even if that only drawback is "my DM is a dick and specifically targets my spellbook with Sunder/by theives/etc."It is certainly the DM doing it and not the NPC because no DM crafting an intelligent enemy would dare let that enemy take advantage of a common knowledge weakness you chose for yourself.
Yes, I chose to have a horrific crippling weakness that all but removes me from play because I chose it. Not because its a rule I have to have to play a class or a certain way or anything.
Oracles break their own legs or gouge their own eyes to enter their class. They get a little better over time though.
I can't tell if we're using sarcasm or not... And if I want to be a wizard I have to have a spellbook so... Yeah, I can't pick another class to use prepared arcane spellcasting.
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Is there another class as neutered as a wizard that loses 1 item?
Pretty much any martial class that loses their main enchanted weapon.
Bonus points if they're a Fighter who can't seem to find their main weapon group.
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See, this is why my witch bought and trained a hawk to be his "familiar" in case anyone gets any fancy ideas about killing/stealing his spellcasting abilities.
My wizards usually haul around a road atlas with a fake cover for the same reason.
See, this is why my witch bought and trained a hawk to be his "familiar" in case anyone gets any fancy ideas about killing/stealing his spellcasting abilities.
My wizards usually haul around a road atlas with a fake cover for the same reason.
I have a character with a fox farm for the exact same reason. I usually avoid GMs that mess with that kind of thing, but the idea of owning an army of foxes was just too fun to pass up.
yea... slavers + LS pally + no land in sight, much less a shop to purchase another book with no money to purchase a books...
Most Wizards that I play take many precautions to ensure no one but myself can get access to it. If you didn't, then you weren't planning things out that well, and maybe Wizard isn't for you(Planning things out is kind of what Wizards do).
I usually hope my DM doesn't plan to steal my class features. I don't think people deserve it for not preparing for it. DM fiat will bypass all of your defences and plans anyway if the DM really wants to bug you.
Most Wizards that I play take many precautions to ensure no one but myself can get access to it. If you didn't, then you weren't planning things out that well, and maybe Wizard isn't for you(Planning things out is kind of what Wizards do).
started as slave on boat stripped and tied to the mast....
they were chained to the oars... the pally got freed to help work elsewhere on the ship, and decided to push one of the slavers overboard... so now I stuck with like 6 spells memorized... >.> but a fighter/sorc has some non-item capability.
well...in game, guess i never really had one, but having to save (ie:not cast) my 4 1st level spells for weeks until we find said book...or any book... who knows, could be interesting.
well...in game, guess i never really had one, but having to save (ie:not cast) my 4 1st level spells for weeks until we find said book...or any book... who knows, could be interesting.
A wizard without spells has a hard time being a wizard I'd imagine.
It is certainly the DM doing it and not the NPC because no DM crafting an intelligent enemy would dare let that enemy take advantage of a common knowledge weakness you chose for yourself.
Really? *That's* the argument you're going with? So no one should ever play a wizard since they can all be negated with a mid-level pickpocket. Yeah...
This is why I always loved the idea of a Traveling or Adventuring Spellbook. I think I first saw them in 1Es Unearthed Arcana and the idea just stuck with me. The basic idea of course is that the wizard creates a few alternative spellbooks to have while adventuring (i.e. a utility book, a 'blasting book' etc) and his main spellbook stays at home under lock and key (of course Dick DMs will likely have this one stolen and the traveling books destroyed but Dicks will be Dicks). The traveling books were much cheaper to make and held only about 1/3 the number of spells as a standard book.
It is certainly the DM doing it and not the NPC because no DM crafting an intelligent enemy would dare let that enemy take advantage of a common knowledge weakness you chose for yourself.Really? *That's* the argument you're going with? So no one should ever play a wizard since they can all be negated with a mid-level pickpocket. Yeah...
This is why I always loved the idea of a Traveling or Adventuring Spellbook. I think I first saw them in 1Es Unearthed Arcana and the idea just stuck with me. The basic idea of course is that the wizard creates a few alternative spellbooks to have while adventuring (i.e. a utility book, a 'blasting book' etc) and his main spellbook stays at home under lock and key (of course Dick DMs will likely have this one stolen and the traveling books destroyed but Dicks will be Dicks). The traveling books were much cheaper to make and held only about 1/3 the number of spells as a standard book.
It costs 2.500gp to make your book utterly safe. If you have more then it's easier.
Bookplate of Recalling teleport the book to you from anywhere on same plane. Bookmark of deception disguises book as any other, make it look like a cookbook or butterfly collection. Magic aura to make it mundane or nondetection to be safe.
This really is too easy defend. Hire an adept to make a copy, keep a scroll of make whole to repair it, buy a preconstructed spellbook cheap and use it as bait, it takes time deciphering, so if you have a 500gp tome, no one will steal the cookbook which is your clambered tome.
Maybe consider monk?
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Oracles break their own legs or gouge their own eyes to enter their class. They get a little better over time though.No, the gods do it to them.
Apparently, Oracles are selected from people who owed the gods money, or something.
At least they are t having b++!!y fits like barbarians, or being racists like rangers.
Played a wizard once that lost his spellbook.
We were on a boat and it capsized. It wasn't until later we stopped to question how a spellbook holds up to immersion in saltwater.That was... expensive.
It magically floats and is completely immune to water of course! Could you imagine the world if a little light rain ruined an open spellbook? Don't question it, this is WizBiz.
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As a Wizard player, the solution is prevention by paranoia. Contingency (not the spell... well until later that is) plans, backup copies stashed multiple locations (this all goes for clones too at high level by the way) all sorts of redundant layered plans and so on. There is a reason that the spell mastery feat exists, not that I've ever taken it, but still.
Just remember, Your spellbooks are your babies, and everyone's out to get them. Everyone. *looks around shiftily*
had book up until the game started. spent rest of my money on scrolls.
yea... something like that, shoulda been said at the get go. i've played nerfed char, so i dont mind too much, assuming eventually i'll get access to paper, so i can write my memorized spells down so i can use them more than once.
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If the GM has your class item stolen or destroyed, but then shortly thereafter provides an adventure hook for you to get it back or replace it, then don't whine. It's just part of the adventure plot that's focussing on your character.
If the GM does this and his only action is to say "Sucks to be you!", then he's being a jerk. Or you've done something to really, really piss him off.
And if you are truely concerned about having such an Achilles' heel, then play a monk. It's hard to take their toys away...even if they aren't necessarily the most effective toys...
If the GM has your class item stolen or destroyed, but then shortly thereafter provides an adventure hook for you to get it back or replace it, then don't whine. It's just part of the adventure plot that's focussing on your character.
If the GM does this and his only action is to say "Sucks to be you!", then he's being a jerk. Or you've done something to really, really piss him off.
And if you are truely concerned about having such an Achilles' heel, then play a monk. It's hard to take their toys away...even if they aren't necessarily the most effective toys...
Except it really sucks while you don't have class features. I'm not a fan of those kinds of plots myself, but YMMV.
Take away the monks weapon/AoMF, put a monster with DR/good or evil in front of him. Monks are actually really dependant on magic items and the like. They just kick a lot more butt without their shirt on than the other martial classes.
As a Wizard player, the solution is prevention by paranoia. Contingency (not the spell... well until later that is) plans, backup copies stashed multiple locations (this all goes for clones too at high level by the way) all sorts of redundant layered plans and so on. There is a reason that the spell mastery feat exists, not that I've ever taken it, but still.
If the DM wants to take your book no amount of contingency is going to stop him. DM fiat always wins.
If the GM has your class item stolen or destroyed, but then shortly thereafter provides an adventure hook for you to get it back or replace it, then don't whine. It's just part of the adventure plot that's focussing on your character.
If the GM does this and his only action is to say "Sucks to be you!", then he's being a jerk. Or you've done something to really, really piss him off.
And if you are truely concerned about having such an Achilles' heel, then play a monk. It's hard to take their toys away...even if they aren't necessarily the most effective toys...
Except it really sucks while you don't have class features. I'm not a fan of those kinds of plots myself, but YMMV.
Take away the monks weapon/AoMF, put a monster with DR/good or evil in front of him. Monks are actually really dependant on magic items and the like. They just kick a lot more butt without their shirt on than the other martial classes.
As a Wizard player, the solution is prevention by paranoia. Contingency (not the spell... well until later that is) plans, backup copies stashed multiple locations (this all goes for clones too at high level by the way) all sorts of redundant layered plans and so on. There is a reason that the spell mastery feat exists, not that I've ever taken it, but still.If the DM wants to take your book no amount of contingency is going to stop him. DM fiat always wins.
Well if he's that kind of GM, I'd exercise my player fiat and hit the road.
To OP: You still have your school abilities. Since it sounds like you are 1st (maybe 2nd?) level, those should be rather effective. Hardly ineffective without your spells, just a little limited.
I hope you enjoy the journey.
plan to find out what happens next. and my one reusable ability i couldn't use last week due to dm fiatting a hanti-magic collar. and all it does is make it harder to hit people. acid splash... acid splash... my one attack spell...
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Well if he's that kind of GM, I'd exercise my player fiat and hit the road.
If he's doing to be a jerk, then yes, I agree the player should look at other options for gaming. If he's doing it temporarily to advancing the adventure plot and the player walks, the player is jerk. And probably an ungrateful one at that, as the GM probably built the adventure featuring the character dealing with this adversity. The player is probably walking away from a golden role playing opportunity and a mechanical challenge.
Honestly, if a player at the table I run did that, I'd be pretty upset after wasting time creating the adventure, and probably not want them back at my table. I spend a lot of time creating and preparing for adventures, and someone who walks at the slightest sign of difficulty without discussing their concerns with me first is a pretty poor person, and someone I don't care to game with again.
Sorry if some of you think of this as harsh, but I've seen way too much "player picks up his toys and goes home as soon as he doesn't get his way" responses in threads as of late. We are all adults (or young adults), and should have the maturity to deal with a little adversity. If you don't like the situation, discuss it with the GM privately after the session. If they are even a mediocore GM, they will listen to the player's concerns and adjust their plot accordingly.
And apologies to North Star - this rant isn't directed at you. Your comment just spurred me to get something off of my chest that's been bothering me. I've had to deal with this situation before, and it apparently bothers me still.
<<Gets off soapbox>>
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The player has no more obligation to show up for your bad quest than he has to see a badly reviewed movie in theaters just because it cost a lot to produce.
If you want to focus the adventure on one player find out what your audience of one enjoys first. Chances are if he decided to roll up a wizard he did so because he likes playing wizards, not because he likes playing commoners with bad stat allocations and no weapon proficiencies.
If you put hours of effort into composing a duet for nails on chalkboard and steam whistles you shouldn't be surprised nobody wants to listen.
Thank you very much for the direct insult. It affirms my thoughts on the matter. Many players feel that they are fighting the GM, instead of trying to compose a story together. When the GM does something surprising to further the story that a player doesn't like, even if completely within the rules, some react as if they are under attack. Some do express their concerns in a constructive manner, but some others seem to fall into childish antics of name-calling, insults, pouting, and disrupting the game, all in an attempt to get "revenge" on the GM for daring to do something to their character.
My players know very well what they are getting into at the beginning of a campaign. I lay it out on the table before we start, so they know what to expect, and can get a feel for my GM style. Yes, temporary loss of something important to the character is a possible event , but the temporary loss is just that, temporary. I always present a way to regain what is lost, or to obtain something better. (And although I don't mention it, I also adjust the challenge to reflect the diminished capacity of the character. It should feel like a challenge!)
Perhaps how I GM isn't your cup of tea. Perhaps it is nails on a chalkboard to you. To each their own. I wish you the best of luck at your next table. Try to have fun!
I'm still not seeing what a "grand, golden roleplaying opportunity" a scenario like "The GM cripples your class! Go on a quest to fix something that shouldn't be f++!ing broken in the first place!" is.
It'd be the same with any class, not just the Wizard.
"Your Barbarian has a malfunctioning adrenal gland! He can no longer Rage! Now, for the next 5 levels try to find this doctor who can perform surgery on you!"
No, screw you.
[Insert class dependent on a central item here*]
*This list could include, but is not limited to:
-The Fighter
-Any Archer Build
-The Witch
-The Cleric
-The Druid
-The Bladebound Magus
-The Monk, in generalTurns out, if you ruin people's class abilities they kind of suck. Who'd have thought?
I'd somewhat agree on a martial losing it's main weapon if it's built to focus heavily on one weapon (archer, THF etc), and the bladebound magus, and while it isn't an item I assume you're referring to the witch's familiar, but druid, cleric and monk - how do you figure? Divine focuses weight and cost next to nothing, so losing one won't really matter since you can always just pull out one of your three backup ones. The monk is reliant on items, sure, but not really on one in particular and is versatile/skillful enough that it has stuff to do even if it loses it's AOMF.
That said, at middling to high levels a wizard should REALLY take spell mastery, and then that isn't that big of a problem anymore.
I usually hope my DM doesn't plan to steal my class features. I don't think people deserve it for not preparing for it. DM fiat will bypass all of your defences and plans anyway if the DM really wants to bug you.
The DM doesn't steal your class feature, an NPC disables your access to a class feature. You know what else disables that access? Death. So you usually hope your DM won't have NPC's or monsters kill your character off if you run around butt naked and don't prepare for the enemy? That's fine, but it's not the standard assumption of the game.
It's interesting how when one of the wizard's weaknesses gets targeted by the enemy it's "DM fiat" but when the fighter gets drowned in Grease and oil or someone puts a spear through the rogue it's seen as standard part of gameplay.
You can't exactly prepare anything to stop your book from being stolen at level 1, apparently before play even starts. Which is the original scenario.