the question of a separatist cleric of a nature god taking the monkey domain has yet to be answered. even by RAW standards it's legal, the separatist must choose a domain not on their god's list, and the druid domains count. i tried to get an answer in the pfs general forums but it was never answered by anyone with authority.
but until they say it's illegal any cleric with the separatist archetype could take a druid domain.
How is a 7 Int Fighter going to learn magic. And what wizard would try and teach him that!
It is an arcane art that requires studying an using complex concepts of the surrounding world to force and sculpt.
He is not going to understand these concepts (ergo no spellcasting)
Then there is the part of teaching him. It is like trying to teach a monkey the higher concepts of mathematics. It cant be done.
(what harvard proffesor is gonna teach a brain damages moron his skills an knowledge)
Sheesh. Who cares if somebody else wants to nerf their character? If it's their idea of fun, let them. Your personal "rules" are for spit.
The GM should care. Part of his responsibility is to help players be successful and, as far as I'm concerned, that includes providing sound character development advice.
If I were the GM in this situation, with a player set on getting his PC a familiar but who had dump statted both of his arcane casting stats, I'd advise the player toward any way to gain a familiar via a Wisdom-based caster first so that he gains some realizable magical benefit from a spellcasting class. Then I'd steer him toward sorcerer before wizard to tap into the non-studious backstory nature of sorcery.
You're saying the GM should step in to stop the player making an underpowered character? It sounds pretty effective to me. I've played a Fighter with a one level wizard dip. Access to wands (shield, mirror image, invisibility, fly...), Transmutation stat bonus, and improved Will save easily make up for the loss of 1 BAB, a couple of hit points, etc.
A cross blooded celestial/arcane sorc use wisdom as casting stat (1st lv. Spells) and give a familiar...
Mike Brock confirmed that crossblooded can NOT be combined with wildblooded for PFS.
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I second the recommendation for a carnivalist rogue. This archetype is PFS legal, and gaining 1st level rogue abilities doesn't really gimp a martial build.
I don't think crossblooded empyreal/arcane will work because you're taking two archetypes that modify your first level bloodline ability - crossblooded and wildblooded. Even if you did, the wildblooded archetype would change arcane to sage and you'd lose the familiar anyhow.
Do you have a link? A quick search didn't turn anything up for me, and I really love this ruling.A cross blooded celestial/arcane sorc use wisdom as casting stat (1st lv. Spells) and give a familiar...Mike Brock confirmed that crossblooded can NOT be combined with wildblooded for PFS.
link About 1/3 of the way down the page.
Those two can't be combined.
Not sure Mike is going to rule on combining Crossblooded with Wildblooded.By rule of archetypes, both modify the bloodline, and as such, are mutually exclusive.
They said it would be going into the Clarification Compilation, but I have not yet looked for it in there.
I hope this is you and your table's definition of fun, otherwise it's just ridiculous.
And it's not even for roleplay reasons, only for cheese. The fighter already min-maxed his stats and now he needs the monkey for action economy reasons?
Must be player entitlement...
I'd actually argue that it's RAW. As has been stated you need a INT 10+
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell [...]
What's the defining class feature of a wizard? Her spells. No spells --> no wizard --> no familiar.
Let him take Leadership and get a monkey if he must.
Ruyan.
Disagree. I would not call this all that powerful (or cheesy).
A martial character that for 1 of his precious 11 or so levels gets zero BaB, zero progression of all his fighter abilities, -2 hit points, a +2 to will saves, the ability to use wands, and a weak familiar that will never get any better? So he is giving up alot of the stuff that a person builds a fighter to have for a little bit (ok maybe moderate bit) of magic item use.
He is giving up a huge amount to get that action.
It is PFS so no leadership feat.
I don't see anything in the rules that says you have to have above average intelligence to be a wizard. But the rules present to show that you will be a really horrible wizard if you have a low intelligence.
Considering he could just buy the same wand, hand it to any arcane or UMD character in the party, still not use up his own action, and get the same or better benefit; I would say this is actually a fairly low power solution.
Falconer Ranger would get him a Falcon, but I'm pretty sure you'd get wierd looks if you taught him trick: OIL ME UP!
His charisma is 7, as is int. His Wis is 11; the idea here is just to have the monkey save him on action economy - grab and apply an oil to him, grab and hand off a wand, stuff like that. A 'grease'monkey if you will.
Round 1 - Monkey! Put the green oil on me! (Enlarge person)
Round 2 - Monkey ! Put the white oil on me! (Shield of faith)
Ect...
Does he have enough int to remember which oil does what?
In Animal Archives, there are rules for buying pets. Allow him to buy a monkey with Oil Applying training.
I'm curious what happens if he accidentally buys a color blind monkey.
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How much does an oil massage monkey go for these days?
It would be amusing to have the monkey riding on his should telling the fighter what to do as it's more intelligent than he is ... It's like another character to play.
I like the idea personally; takes away from just another boring big guy who hits things really hard.
Sic
Considering he could just buy the same wand, hand it to any arcane or UMD character in the party, still not use up his own action, and get the same or better benefit; I would say this is actually a fairly low power solution.
You can't use wands of personal spells like Mirror Image or Shield or True Strike on allies, and you can't count on allies having time to buff you in combat.
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Intelligence 7 Wizard! Please, let him do it! It's rare that anyone in my gaming group would make such a utterly useless decision with their character that didn't end in immediate character death. I think it would make for AMAZING role-playing opportunities. Have the PC invited to compete in a mageduel or two. Attend a few arcane colleges. Give a lecture on his expansive knowledge of the arcane. Maybe even cast a spell or two? Maybe not.
His charisma is 7, as is int. His Wis is 11; the idea here is just to have the monkey save him on action economy - grab and apply an oil to him, grab and hand off a wand, stuff like that. A 'grease'monkey if you will.
Round 1 - Monkey! Put the green oil on me! (Enlarge person)
Round 2 - Monkey ! Put the white oil on me! (Shield of faith)
Ect...
He’s not smart enough to have figured that out. He bought himself into a 7 INT, there needs to be penalties also. Now sure, getting a pet is cool, even dumb people want a pet. But he has chosen to be stupider than the village idiot.
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t's rare that anyone in my gaming group would make such a utterly useless decision with their character that didn't end in immediate character death.
Action economy is never useless.
Access to options never available to most fighters is certainly not useless. A single level of multiclassing and a modest investment in wands gives him huge access to buffs.
True, I did not consider the personal range spells. Could a familiar cast personal range spells onto the fighter even from a wand?Considering he could just buy the same wand, hand it to any arcane or UMD character in the party, still not use up his own action, and get the same or better benefit; I would say this is actually a fairly low power solution.You can't use wands of personal spells like Mirror Image or Shield or True Strike on allies, and you can't count on allies having time to buff you in combat.
Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).
Doesn't seem to say the familiar can cast them on you, just that you can cast them on the familiar. I haven't used a familiar where it came up so I haven't researched it myself.
Still there are a tremendous number of other buff spells you could get someone to cast from a wand you had purchased onto your fighter self.
I have rarely had someone unwilling to use a charge on a wand I had provided to buff me when I requested it. Then he doesn't need to use any of his spells or charges. There have been a couple of times where the other caster had another option that was so much better, that he didn't. But probably if it is that much better I don't need the buff.
Plus how long will your low AC, low save, unimproved, unadvanced, un-everything monkey survive in melee combat range or the multitude of AoE spells to which it will be subjected.
I still don't see this as a high powerplay option. It might allow a few unique tricks, but it will be expensive (in terms of what was given up) and risky (in terms of constantly needing to replace your familiar).
It is possible I am wrong and he will end up dominating the field, but I would have to see it causing problems in play before I would believe it.
Why not a cleric that takes a domain that grants an animal companion? As a fighter, Wisdom shouldn't be a dump stat. He'll also get the ability to heal allies and use domain powers.
If he just wants the pet to hang out with and occasionally hand him things, I think he's just better buying a standard pet and training it with handle animal. Or buying a trained one. No need to spend an entire level on it.
He would get like 1 daily level 1 power too.
As a wood wizard he would get this
Flexible Enhancement (Su): A master of the wood element is able to bend like bamboo when stressed and snap back into place. You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity, Constitution, or Wisdom ability score. This bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. You can change this bonus to a new ability score when you prepare spells. At 20th level, this bonus applies to two of these ability scores of your choice.
That would be really dumb. Such a bonus quickly becomes utterly useless. As an enhancement bonus it doesn't stack with any magic items or spells like bull's strength and you'd have to take 5 levels of wizard just to get it to match a +2 enhancement magic item. This would just mean the fighter not only would suck at being a wizard but wouldn't even get a wizard power either.
I agree with others concerning the wizard deal. Go with sorcerer if your Charisma isn't likewise low. Or try to work out something with your GM instead (maybe a feat that grants a familiar with an effective level equal to your ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge {Arcana} or something).
Keep in mind the vast majority of familiars are useless as flankers. They have no natural reach for being tiny or smaller and thus cannot flank with the fighter anyway, so we're really just looking at a scout/pet.
As I said, I think it is legal.
But from a strictly power perspective, I think you would do better to buy wands for others to use on you. I just don't think a level 1 familiar will survive long enough in melee range, generating AoO, getting hit by AoE, etc...
I second the witch recommendation. Take the Feral Speech hex and you've got Kronk! (With less charisma.)
Well if he wanted a flanking buddy I would suggest he be a class with an animal companion actually. Familiars make awful(and expensive) flanking buddies. Ranger also gets bonus feats, has 4 more skillpoints per level, and apes aren't bad companions at all.
It would be really really hard to make an effective dip for a familiar the way he is. If its for PFS I strongly recommend against it. Void might be a nice dip for wizard if he absolutely has to do it. At least bolster your saves.
Edit: I say not to do it for PFS because you can't change rules to help make it work, and in a pick up group it can really suck when your with someone who isn't carrying their weight.
How much does an oil massage monkey go for these days?We're all going to pretend you're not asking this for your own personal reasons, if that's OK with you.
A Baboon is 15gp, ape is 175gp, and Monkey is 3gp. All 3 are PFS legal. I went and looked them up! Now just train them "Oil" and "massage" tricks. Buy 10 or 20 so when they inevitably die from flanking you have more at the ready.
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I'm not sure why people are still discussing gimping this fighter with a (mostly) useless caster class when it has been pointed out that one level of rogue with the carnivalist archetype:
1. gets him a familiar
2. is PFS legal
3. doesn't leave him with class abilities he can't use.
level 1 rogue has class features? At best sneak attack I guess. Carnivalist looks like an okay comprimise for a familiar to me. Skill points!
The carnivalist doesn't get sneak attack at 1st, and the familiar won't advance without more levels in carnivalist or another class that gets a familiar, but it's still better than a level of wizard: d8 hit die and class skills and points even an int 7 fighter will appreciate.
I vote mad dog barbarian or just buying the pet. Much cheaper.
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I vote mad dog barbarian or just buying the pet. Much cheaper.
The wizard familiar has 1/2 the total hit points of its master. The familiar is also not reliant on tricks or usage the the animal handling skill. These are huge with a 7 Charisma fighter.
A pet or single level dip for an AC results in a creature with static hit points that may not act as intended if the owner fails his handle animal check. The standard pets grants no benefit in action economy over the fighter just applying the potions to himself.
Yes, but you can replace the pet for free!
The organized play is strict and doesn't allow reskinning or just making up your own classes or whatever.
Carnivalist is still the best bet for this idea as it'll at least garner a few extra useful things.
