Ranged Feint?


Rules Questions


The rules seem awfully vague about what actually goes into using the bluff skill to feint. There's nothing explicitly stating that it only works for melee, which leads me to believe that feinting works for ranged attacks.

But how would this work in practice? Does the archer act like he's going to shoot his intended target, forcing him to flinch? And how would that make said target easier to hit?

Would it work on targets that can't actually see their attacker? Take a sniper. Can he use feint to, say, chuck a rock and distract his target?

Is it a moot point if the target can't actually see the attacker? Meaning, if the attacker is successfully using stealth, does the target lose his/her Dex bonus to stealth anyway, despite being past the first round of combat? (can't find the rule that addresses this)


PRD>Combat>Special Attacks wrote:

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

When feinting against a nonhumanoid you take a –4 penalty. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you take a –8 penalty. Against a creature lacking an Intelligence score, it's impossible. Feinting in combat does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Feinting as a Move Action: With the Improved Feint feat, you can attempt a feint as a move action.

My bold. Feinting only works to set up a melee attack. The specific wording is in the Combat chapter, not under the Bluff skill. So while you might, by RAW, be able to feint from range, you'd have to charge in next round and attack in melee to take advantage of it.


joeyfixit wrote:
Meaning, if the attacker is successfully using stealth, does the target lose his/her Dex bonus to stealth anyway, despite being past the first round of combat? (can't find the rule that addresses this)

Yes, if you've successfully used stealth, then the defender loses Dex to AC against your attacks.

If you make a single ranged attack from stealth, you can immediately make a new stealth check with a -20 penalty to avoid detection.


Joana wrote:
PRD>Combat>Special Attacks wrote:

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

When feinting against a nonhumanoid you take a –4 penalty. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you take a –8 penalty. Against a creature lacking an Intelligence score, it's impossible. Feinting in combat does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Feinting as a Move Action: With the Improved Feint feat, you can attempt a feint as a move action.

My bold. Feinting only works to set up a melee attack. The specific wording is in the Combat chapter, not under the Bluff skill. So while you might, by RAW, be able to feint from range, you'd have to charge in next round and attack in melee to take advantage of it.

If you play the Fighter Archetype - Archer, at 3rd level you choose a Trick Shot. One of the choices is Feint. In which case you would obviously be using it with a bow. They do not go into detail about how it would work differently, my GM and I have decided that you use a standard action to make the feint, shooting an arrow at the opponent. And as with the standard feint, you have until the end of your next turn to take advantage of this if he fails his check.

I would say this is the exception to the melee attack rule.


Feinting is a combat maneuver that uses bluff instead of CMB.

All the other combat maneuvers specifically call out requiring either replacing a melee attack, or as part of a charge, but in the case of grapple and feint do not say (though it would be extremely hard to grapple someone without some physical way of connecting with them - hence by its very nature requires melee range for an 'unarmed or natural attack' for humanoids). Per RAW there doesn't seem to be any range limitation on it - though as Joana pointed out it only effects them against the next melee attack you make against them. Which thematically I don't have a problem with. I could visualize you making it clear you are about to charge them, making it look like you are going to do an overhand chop, then on the next round when you actually charge come in with an uppercut instead. Or that you are about to draw another arrow, then instead drop your bow and charge, drawing your melee weapon as you do so.

Shadow Lodge

bbangerter wrote:
All the other combat maneuvers specifically call out requiring either replacing a melee attack, or as part of a charge, but in the case of grapple and feint do not say (though it would be extremely hard to grapple someone without some physical way of connecting with them - hence by its very nature requires melee range for an 'unarmed or natural attack' for humanoids).

Telekinesis!


Dakota_Strider wrote:

If you play the Fighter Archetype - Archer, at 3rd level you choose a Trick Shot. One of the choices is Feint. In which case you would obviously be using it with a bow. They do not go into detail about how it would work differently, my GM and I have decided that you use a standard action to make the feint, shooting an arrow at the opponent. And as with the standard feint, you have until the end of your next turn to take advantage of this if he fails his check.

I would say this is the exception to the melee attack rule.

The archetype does provide some details as to how it works differently:

PRD wrote:
Trick Shot (Ex): At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB. Every four levels beyond 3rd, he may choose an additional trick shot to learn. These maneuvers use up arrows as normal.

So you can only perform a trick shot when within 30 ft, you take a -4 penalty to CMB, and the maneuver spends an arrow. Everything else should work the same way as the normal maneuver.

And yes, it's clearly meant as the exception to the melee attack rule (at 11th level you can also choose bull rush, grapple, or trip).


If you play an level 11+ Archer with access to the dimensional feats (which would allow you to attack from different squares and different directions) and you perform an attack with Trick Shot to bull rush an opponent into and through squares you threaten ... do you get an attack of opportunity from your own bull rush? Assume you're armed with a melee weapon, such as a natural attack.

It certainly makes a cool visual for me, especially if you have Snap Shot. You go teleporting around the battlefield firing arrows at enemies from unexpected directions, then letting one loose that knocks an opponent back and giving you free potshots.

No idea if you could meet all those requirements though, and sadly, I'm afraid it wouldn't really be all that effective.

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