Arcadia: Resources & Brainstorming


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Anybody thinking of a Pueblo version of Minas Tirith for Arcadia as a way of demonstrating the fantasy nature of Pathfinder?


I'd just like the chance to play a Heyoka in a game.


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Voltron64 wrote:
Anybody thinking of a Pueblo version of Minas Tirith for Arcadia as a way of demonstrating the fantasy nature of Pathfinder?

This would be really cool. I was also thinking of this for Incan cities in the mountains.

Liberty's Edge

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Cities that float on water might be interesting, too, as a more fantastical version of Tenochtitlan. As I recall, the (highly inaccurate) Golarion world map shows a large inland sea in north-central Arcadia; maybe there could be some manner of mesoamerican-esque empire based around the lake, wherein the floating capital city "migrates" cyclically from province to province.

Shadow Lodge

Something I just saw recently that had my gears turning is the taboo in Navajo culture about touching lightning struck objects and how interesting that would be to play around with some of the other concepts in pathfinder like storm clerics, shocking items, and most importantly demons. I can just imagine a badlands or desert tribe that fears and loathes Vrocks as the epitome of evil and awful thanks to their ability to manipulate lightning along with their resistance to it and visual similarities to the vulture.


Ive been working on a gazetteer of my own version of Arcadia, i'll post it on the forums when i'm done, will be a while though

Editor

For any of you in the Seattle area, there's a big storytelling event in South Seattle on Sunday that might provide excellent fodder for thought: Stories You Have Never Heard Before: Natives Rising Tour. I can't make it, so I'd love to hear folks' takeaways!


Shame I don't live in Seattle to check that out :(

Says me a month later.


Has anyone mentioned this book here yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_campaign_settings#Maztica


Nathanael Love wrote:

Has anyone mentioned this book here yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_campaign_settings#Maztica

In other threads that Maztica was mentioned in, I've noticed some negative feedback about it. Specifically with casters being weaker than their European counterparts in Forgotten Realms.

Though I'm sure there are still some good ideas to mine from it.


It needed work as it was two campaign boxes more than a proper setting. There was some neat stuff about more or less being a barter economy and coco beans being currency when you needed it.

By and large the local classes were too weak (the adventure literally has one mage more or less killing most of them with magic).

Otherwise it suffered from not having enough culture flavor and not enough monsters, with orcs running around being all evil and stuff.

I'd assume it was a trial and didn't get enough interest to expand.


I haven't read it for a long time. . . I only had the one box set, but I remembered that it was there, and was interesting.

It was similar to the "the horde" setting in that it was supposed to be part of FR and was just kinda put out then left alone.


I think some of the complaints was that it was a bit too literal an adaptation of mesoamerica, what with conquistadors being noticeably superior to the natives in technology, and mostly using existing races and just reflavoring them, instead of basing the races on creatures in american legends.


Seems like I should link to another interesting thread on the sight, just for completeness sake:

Native American Fey.

Dark Archive

If I haven't already mentioned it, Old Stone Fort is full of neat ideas for Native American supernatural adventure seeds. (It's a GURPS adventure set in the 1920's, dealing with supernatural Cherokee events.)

It's a relatively tightly focused product, but well-researched, and there's not exactly a bumper crop of Native American-themed gaming stuff out there to compare it with.


I was preparing and expanding my setting (the Psuedo-Caribbean setting) into both that and South American cultures. Aside from some research and some ideas in this thread, I came across this monster that would be excellent to see in a bestiary. Here is the Pishtaco, though I like the name kharisiri better.


Mmm. Fish tacos.


And that's why I'd go with the other name :p


Cthulhudrew wrote:

Yes- the Arcadian alchemists would be mostly along the lines of mindchemists; using cognatogens of various sorts, as opposed to the more Avistani "common" mutagens. Their cognatogens would provide a wider variety of effects than standard varieties.

I'd probably replace their bomb feature with something else, as well. Perhaps something related to spirits- maybe something like "spirit assault". Either summoning spirits to directly attack their enemies, or maybe something sort of illusion-like, inducing psychosomatic damage in their enemies.

Check out the herbalist archetype from Wayfinder, it even stacks with mindchemist.


Dot.


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So I was thinking, we should all collaborate on the creatures we know and make up an Arcadian bestiary. One with the large variety of creatures all the way from Inuit mythology to Chilean, both pre and post-Columbian. What say you guys?


I would be down for that once the yoke of this project proposal is no longer dragging me down


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Hhhmm...well While I am looking at lists, might as well post the NA mythology/folklore monsters I have in my personal list Here are the A's, heavily biased toward little people from the book I reference above:

Abuelitos = Quechuan; little people who dwell in ruins around Lake Titicaca

Achiyalabopa = Pueblo; extraordinary sized celestial bird with rainbow-colored feathers as sharp as knives

Achkay/Auka/Aqui/Unaguilli/Aschcu guagua = Quechuan; baby spirits which resemble animals; Sharp-toothed with brilliant pupils; minor spirits of the hills; mediate between the living and dead; crop and mountain spirits; transport people to hell; can only be seen by shamans

Agloolik = Inuit tutelary spirit; helpful spirit that lived under the ice and protects seals and hunters.

Agropelter = American folklore, 3 foot tall wirey arboreal primate that throws wood at intruders, stuffs victims into hollow trees to eat later

Ahuehuetl/Ahuahque = Mesoamerican; Spirits of lightning; marked with a diagonal red band; hide their faces, which must never be seen by mortals; black; wear cloths of rubber; can bring rain and are associated with lightning struck trees; covet gold; make jewelry of stone

Aku-aku = Easter Island; knee-high invisible evil devils; hunchbacked with no stomachs; seen most often at night, and had high-pitched piping voices; term refers to lesser gods or ghosts

Alambegwiino = Abenaki; Dwarfish 3-ft tall river spirits; long straight black hair; glow

Alom-bag-winno-sis/ = Abenaki Native American; mischievious dwarf-like spirits, which upset canoes; increase body size at will; seeing one foretells death by drowning ; may take the form of a snake

Alux/Aluxob = Mayan sprite; knee high, dress like Mayans; tricksters that can become invisible; sometimes helps with agriculture, but after 7 years will turn hostile to farmers; should not named aloud; hate thiefs; may have fangs and be hollow and made of clay; can control fog or become invisible;fast moving; males more common than females; dwell in caves and ruins; loss of power with the coming of the Europeans; demoted from minor gods to fey spirits

Amaypathenya = Hokan; spirit-like beings which materialize as white-haired pygmies or roosters with human heads; born from the earth; could create spirit pictographs in the air; born from nothing and no the past and future

Amarok = Giant white wolf of Innuit mythology

Ampuku = Suriname; Bush dwarves or human-sized bush gods; protected women; considered birds sacred

Ana’amakte = Penutian “outside people”; crazy deluding, wandering people; clothed with elaborate decorating; could be little people bu sometimes also described as resembling tiny children; may have originally formed from children who ran away from home.

Ananeriite = Macro-Arawakan; Star dwarves; paint themselves in red achiote and wear white clothes; dwell in the sky; only females where jewelry; play panpipes at drunken festivities; catch fish by poisoning them; invisible but wear luminous crowns; can control shooting stars

Anchanchu/Janchchu-janchchu = Aymara South American; big-bellied, tailed, large-headed dwarves; bald; covered in horsehair; one side of face bare, the other covered in bristly fur; has goat feet; bipedal but can run on all fours; small baleful penetrating eyes; help with festivals; inhabits caves, montane environments, abandoned buildings, and wetlands; comes out on moonless lights; often found in poisonous snakes; wear conquistador armor; ride pigs; often has gold; protects itself with whirlwinds and strong winds; can become invisible

Anchimallen = Mapuche; spirit of a child killed by a guardian spirit; appears as a white-dressed pygmy, less often as a dazzling llama/will-o-wisp/reptile/whirlwind/ball of fire/blackbird; deformed with one leg; moves by jumping; master of toads and waters; found along forests and byways; causesickness from their dancing; may lead people astray by appearing as a stray guanaco; can disappear at will; can be made from the bones of babies; also can form St. Elmos fires on horse hoofs, roofs, roads as a death omen

Antiso’ma/Hant Haso’uoma/Animal Masters = Hokan/Tolupan; include master of mice and rats and master of roaches; appear as two year old dwarves; dwell underground ; first two refer to “man god” who is depicted as a fat child size being with beard, yellow hair, and white skin; wore robes

Ao Ao = Guarani SA; Sheep-like humanoid monster with a massive set of fangs; name derives from sound it makes; rules the mountains and hills; feeds on humans; vulnerable to palm wood

Apaiyacihaq = Algic NA; “creatures of caprice” small malicious Manitou which inhabit ice and can produce cracks within it; leave teeth marks on victims; formed from the sweat and words of the creator god. Can possess people but will be driven away by heat, and can then be killed by cold

Apicilnic = Labrador; pixie-like knee-high fey which kidnap children to turn them into more Apicilnics

Apotamkin = Seneca; Owl like monster that would carry back children in its magical bag to eat

Araidai = Macro-Arawakan; goblin of the woods; hairy beings that communicate with horse-like neighs; twisted feet and red hair;

Argolito = Tarachahitan; alien pygmy that trails a whooshing rope; related to meteorites and rain; kills and eats giant rattlesnakes;

Atdliarugit = Innuit; associated with fire; malicious; dwell deep underground. Dwarfish; Have narrow white or red-eyes; no noses

Aua = Innuit; Earth spirits; upturned feet and lack thumbs; usually appear female; cheery, usually appear female; dress in seal-skin clothes; build snow huts

Awa-hon-do = Abenaki spirit insect; bites people

Awakkule = Crow NA; impish dwarf people that act as tricksters

Aziwugum = Inuit; Dog-like monster covered in fish-like scales, with a long tail powerful enough to kill a man


Where did you find this list, if you don't mind me asking?


Most of the dwarf/little people are from:

American elves: an encyclopedia of little people from the lore of 380 ethnic groups of the Western Hemisphere.

Everything else is from random internet resources (wikipedia, native languages site, mythical creature list, etc).


I'm specifically looking for the Argolito, Can't find that or anything on Tarachahitan using google.


It's a language group in the book I cite, but I am also coming up with no hits. I don't know if it's a misspelling on my part or the authors (The book suffered from poor editing in that regard

I typed in Argolito and Rattlesnake and got a hit on a story involving an Argolito from a book on the Yaqui, so this seems to be where the creature comes from.

This link

The Argolito and the Rattlesnake

Also mentions a creature called a Sierpa, which is a shapeshifting giant rattlesnake...

The Exchange

Mind if I drop this 1,200 year old "phone" here?

Dark Archive

ReckNBall wrote:
Mind if I drop this 1,200 year old "phone" here?

That's awesome.

While only suggested as a possibility in the above article, I love the idea of a ruling caste so removed from those they rule that it would be forbidden for lower castes to look upon them or hear their voices, only passing communications to the inner chambers of the rulers through these sorts of devices (or slipping notes under the door, or whatever). The potential for shenanigans is *enormous,* particularly in a fantasy world where the lower castes might never have any chance of meeting their 'king' and discovering that he's a lich, or a veiled master, or a hag, or whatever.

To turn that around, perhaps, like those birds that brick up a brooding female so that she literally can't leave the nest, the 'king' could be walled into a royal chamber, with only enough of a slit to pass food to him, leaving him unable to abdicate his responsibilities, king 'for life.' He's as much a victim of his position as those kids who 'win the lottery' and are treated to feasts and parades and a year of luxury before they are dragged to the top of the pyramid and have their hearts cut out to ensure another year of sunlight for their people.

The Exchange

If it weren't for the above phone article. I'd never heard of the Chimu empire. Advanced enough to import and support artisans (generational skill set) who worked with metal and ceramics.

Set, that is an awesome twist(s).


That phone idea is amazing. Pretty cool :D

The Exchange

How much technology was lost simply due to the passages of time? It sounds a bit like organic steampunk. Moderate tech, low energy, biodegradable. They just never made it to the industrial age; technology was held in the hands of upper caste and artisans.

My take on it.


Reading the article about the Chimu culture and moon worship, I think that would be a very interesting route to go with. Maybe a nation that actively shuns sun deities and religion, seeing it as an ultimately destructive force.

One thing I want to see how Paizo handles is the act of sacrifice and how it's used in Arcadia that's a bit like Mesoamerica. That's a pretty touchy subject to touch on.


So, now that time permits, I have begun piecing together a New World bestiary of sorts. I have some of the monsters and animals I've statted up so far, but I'd love some help from those that are stat savvy. Any takers? I can PM my email and Steam ID.


I can help some.


Excellent. I can dig that. I've got some of the Caribbean monsters I've been running, but could always use more New World monsters :D

Dark Archive

You have plagued my brain with thoughts of a Couatl Aasimar, Odraude. I curse you!

(And I kinda see how they are different enough from other Outsiders to make it wonky, not having energy resistances, for instance, even if the 'not-humanoid' thing doesn't slow me down at all, because, 'half-dragons.')

I'd go with standard Aasimar (for stats, skill bonuses, etc.), with the following variations;

Spell-like Ability - detect thoughts 1/day (CL equal to caster level).

Replace Celestial Resistances with one (or both?) of;
+1 natural armor
Detect evil at will

Often have duo-chromatic patterned scaly skin (even without natural armor) covering some or most of body, and often have brightly colored feathers growing amongst hair on head (such as the red and green of quetzal feathers).

(The stats for a Couatl, adjusting for the Large size, seem to favor Wisdom most, with Intelligence and Charisma second-most. Since it has Sorcerer casting levels, I'd rate Charisma a hair more relevant than Intelligence, and so the 'standard Aasimar' array of +2 Wis, +2 Cha seems ideal. Perception and Diplomacy happen to be two of its highest ranked skills (along with Fly, Use Magic Device and Acrobatics...), so it's probably easiest to just stick to 'standard Aasimar' skills as well, than change that. Detect thoughts and invisibility are the only two 2nd level equivalent spells that the couatl has at will, so those would be the two most appropriate choices for this Aasimar variant, and detect thoughts seems more on-theme to me than invisibility.)


I like that a lot actually. Only thing I'm a little wary on is the at will detect evil. I'd have to look at the rules for the spell again for it. But yeah, way I see it, if qlippoth can have a tiefling bloodline and be non-humanoid, and garudas can have an aasimar bloodline and be a native outsider, then couatls should definitely have a bloodline.

Dark Archive

I'd considered having it work like the Paladin detect evil, but decided that was too good. Instead, just as the spell means they have to turn it on and wait up to 3 rounds for a 'full reading.'

What I'd really like is a Sorcerer Bloodline (or Witch Patron?) based on the unktehi (Love the idea of a disease/curse that doesn't affect the hunter, but affects those around him, so that he ends up going home and afflicting his family...)

(Although I'd steer away from anything that too closely paralleled the White Wolf Uktena spirit-thingie.)


Charles Mann's book 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus was already mentioned, and I'd throw in 1493: Uncovering the New World Columbus Created as well.

The first is focused on illustrating a pre-Columbian Americas that is strenuously not the "noble savage" stereotype, including a lot of the regional "geopolitics" and cultural upheavals that Cortes, Pizarro, et al blundered into. (I could envision "the Arcadian Minas Tirith" serving as the seat of either "the Arcadian Aztec/triple alliance" or "the Arcadian Inca"?)

The latter discusses the impacts of the globalization of commerce accelerated by European colonies in the Americas -- perhaps good consideration for some of the "FIVE THOUSAND YEARS" concerns, but timeline-wise probably more easily lifted for Chelish extraction economy. e.g. a fair amount of (brutal) discussion of the slave trade through the Atlantic, including a couple chapters on colonies of escaped/liberated slaves and their wars against nearby European settlements.

Dark Archive

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That's probably the potentially coolest thing about Arcadia being set on Golarion. It's automatically got *thousands* of years of history, and, unlike, say, Osirion or Qadira, which are more strongly 'Egypt' or 'Persia' flavored, Arcadia could likely to be *very* different than the pre-contact Americas. Just like Andoran borrows *an* idea from the founding of the United States, but actually isn't even close to an attempt to faithfully recreate a fantasy US, a part of me is hoping that Arcadia is *way* more advanced in some areas, and perhaps even, in some places *more advanced* in some ways than some of the Inner Sea regions.

For the most part, the less 'Maztica' / colonials vs. savages it turns out to be, the more I might like it.

Paizo Employee Developer

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Set wrote:

For the most part, the less 'Maztica' / colonials vs. savages it turns out to be, the more I might like it.

As the person in the office most interested in Arcadia, you might like to know that I completely agree with you on this point.


For me, personally, I don't necessarily want the Maztica/colonials vs savages vibe

But I would like there to be cultural touchstones where I can read about a country and say "Yes, this was inspired by the Inca" or "This group here takes inspiration from the Sioux". Or, "Okay, this nation obviously draws inspiration from this set of legends or tropes"

I think you can do that in a high fantasy style that doesn't assume Native American culture is inferior, and I have yet to see any Fantasy RPG really try to do so in a compelling way.


For me, I like the colonial vs native vibe (not savage, key difference). However, I agree that technologically and magically, the Arcadians shouldn't be strictly inferior than everywhere else on Golarion. The current game I'm running has that political tension, since it takes place after a great war between the island natives and the colonists where nobody won.

Verdant Wheel

I just want ethnical native (south) americans to have a valid background for my characters. We have Europeans, Asians, Africans, now show some American love.

Paizo Employee Developer

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Odraude wrote:
For me, I like the colonial vs native vibe (not savage, key difference). However, I agree that technologically and magically, the Arcadians shouldn't be strictly inferior than everywhere else on Golarion. ...

That's actually a really good distinction.


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Adam Daigle wrote:
Odraude wrote:
For me, I like the colonial vs native vibe (not savage, key difference). However, I agree that technologically and magically, the Arcadians shouldn't be strictly inferior than everywhere else on Golarion. ...
That's actually a really good distinction.

Thanks. It's one of the biggest things I've done with the setting I'm putting together. Since it takes place in a Caribbean analogue during the Renaissance/Age of Exploration, one of the biggest themes I wanted to cover was the cultural clash between the New World and Old World. This allowed me to A) have familiar cultures for the players who don't know as much about the natives as I do B) have that tension and conflict hanging in the air (and I like conflict) and C) allow the use of both pre-Columbian mythology and folklore from modern-day Latin/native American hybrid. So in a sense, I could have both the Hupia (a Taino creature) and the Ciguapa (a more modern creature) and it would fit.

That said, the native tribes I made aren't inferior, nor do they suffer from noble savage syndrome. They have large cities and magic and iron working. I have one that's a kingdom of druids that worship hurricanes. The only thing I didn't give them was firearms, which was an era specific choice. But I think that we can have the colonial conflict without making the Arcadians inferior. That's just me. I like conflict in a setting and I've always been interested in reading about the era.

Draco Bahamut wrote:
I just want ethnical native (south) americans to have a valid background for my characters. We have Europeans, Asians, Africans, now show some American love.

I agree with this, especially from PFS. We had a young man at my local gaming store whose character was refused in PFS because he chose to be an Arcadian. And since they aren't officially outlined in the guide, the GM disallowed his character. That didn't really sit well with me and I want to see Arcadia out now more than ever.


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I'm VERY interested in seeing Arcadia fleshed out in future products, in a way that avoids the too-easy and problematic "noble savage" / cowboys & indians stereotypes.

It seems like this might take some backtracking from established tidbits in canon. I don't have my ISWG ready to hand, and don't have most of the other products that ref. Arcadia, but the pathfinderwiki page seems to play into the stereotypes of an uncivilized and empty continent.

Quote:
Those who have visited Arcadia describe it as a verdant, natural wonderland filled with stunning vistas and boundless resources; it seems to be a place completely unclaimed by civilization. ... As the Arcadians are not known to be city-builders, ... a fierce people utilizing bows and tomahawks

Valenhall's page similarly states,

Quote:
a number of foreign diseases the Ulfen brought with them, eventually managed to thin the Arcadian population near Valenhall enough so that they no longer presented a major challenge to the colony

So, verdant wilderness, savage literal-tomahawk-wielding natives, uncivilized / no cities, ravaged by disease -- we're checking all the boxes of my 1980s elementary school education's glorification of European colonizers in an unclaimed land. Is this an accurate representation of the existing primary sources / canon?

One idea might be to play on this plus the FIVE THOUSAND YEARS issue to say, sure, the original Linnorms encountered low-tech tomahawk-wielding savages...who studied the colonizers, developed comparable metallurgy, raided them for horses and other imports, etc.

And, sure, disease decimated the population ... 5,000 years ago. Civilizations and cultures fell as disease ravaged the continent like wildfire -- which both provides easy explanation for ancient ruins dotting the landscape, while also allowing plenty of time for new generations of civilization to mature over the ensuing millennia. Could be some interesting re-interpretations / revivals of ancient civs by the contemporary inhabitants.

Meanwhile, the Andoran and Cheliax settlers' reports of "a verdant natural wonderland"? Well, sure -- because that's the perspective the locals want to give while political debates rage endlessly about whether to build trade relationships with the newbs or push them into the sea effortlessly like the annoyance they are. The colonists are kept in a a Truman Show-esque theme park through a combination of physical quarantine and powerful illusions & abjurations. Far from being backwards, puny, and inferior, the Andorans local to the colonies are at least the equals of any Inner Sea nation, with the power and patience to keep their presence largely unknown for the century's span of these colonies.

...okay, so that might take things a little far for canon, but I think I've got an interesting homebrew in my future.


The way I handled this issue in my setting was like this:

Pre-colonially, I had the native kingdoms embroiled in a war with another kingdom from the Southern continent. The southern tribes took over most of the island nations and many island refugees fled to the northern islands, living in scattered villages. Things changed for the worst when a terrible plague decimated the kingdoms. It weakened the southern tribes' holdings, but also made the already sparsely populated northern islands all but deserted and essentially cut them off from the rest of the nations.

So, when the colonists came and landed on the northern islands, it was just after the epidemic. The colonists assumed that all of the natives lived in small villages with Stone Age technology. Course, in this setting, the natives kingdoms, although splintered, are still around and still powerful. But, it helped to explain why and how the colonists took the islands that they did.


Arcadia is easily the one continent on Golarion I'm most interested in learning more about. When Paizo finally does a book on it, I hope they go the Tian Xia route by creating nations that draw influence from Native American culture (as many people on this thread have already pointed out), but give them an interesting spin and add some fantastical elements as well. I'd actually be kind of disappointed if they didn't tap into those rich cultures & mythologies.

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