Arcadia: Resources & Brainstorming


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

1 to 50 of 671 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

21 people marked this as a favorite.

With the last couple months, I've been building a setting based on the New World, specifically the Caribbean and its natives. With it, I've been getting more and more into wanting to learn more about Arcadia and to even contribute more to it. I've started making a list of books on Google Drive I've either used or heard are good. As we find more, I can add it to the document. In addition, we can brainstorm on ideas for Arcadia and what it's culture and people would be like as well as what creatures from folklore we could use.

Personally, my expertise is on the peoples of the Caribbean. I've been doing research on the Taino for the last ten years, starting since I was in high school and going well through my college years. I have a small amount of books and eventually plan on visiting the Cemi Museum in Puerto Rico.

This is the list of ideas for Arcadia and bibliography of books on the Pre-Columbian Americas. I plan on keeping it updated as we post more books and ideas.

Let's get it started then!


I'll give this the ol' bump


1 person marked this as a favorite.

one thing I have been doing during the development of my own setting, is simply pick a time period and look up the history of a continent/region during that period on wikipedia. That gives me a general idea of the major powers in the region at the time, which I can then use to build my nations/cultures.

Sadly I haven't gotten to an Arcadia/North American analogue yet.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You might have already seen this, but this is a good source for NA myth/folklore

Native American Myth

Although lacking detail, Mythology resources has a pretty exhaustive list of gods, magic items, and monsters from different world regions


The other thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of different cultures. Some (Maya, Aztec, Cherokee, Sioux, Navajo) are a lot better known than others, but nothing stops you grabbing one of the lesser-known tribes or legends and using that as well. If I recall correctly, Inner Sea ships are just barely reaching the edge of the Arcadian continent, so you have plenty of room to do stuff.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I really hope Arcadia features some sort of analogues for the city-building NA civilizations at the points that they thrived, to go along with the expected South American ones.

Speaking of...

Nazca lines. I always wanted to flavor a summoning-type character as quickly drawing or otherwise placing figures in that style on stone and having summoned creatures erupt from them, fully formed from the stone drawn upon, shaped according to the aesthetics of the culture.

The actual BIGHUEG Nazca lines? Giant summonings still waiting to be triggered, if one knew the right words or the right way to "complete" the drawing...

Paizo Employee Developer

15 people marked this as a favorite.

If at some point we do something with Arcadia, I'd personally like to blur the real world lore from the fantasy world lore a bit. Fewer direct analogs and more inspiration. I frequently get annoyed with the eurocentric focus on how fantasy settings portray "New World" stuff. I'd like to see less beads, braids, and loincloths, fewer noble savages tropes. After all, if the Azlanti influenced the continents to the east, what's stopping them from influencing the continent to the west? Also, if the map lifted from Kintargo can be believed, there's not really a place for humanoid migration to have happened naturally. It's even more geographically isolated than Sarusan.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Adam Daigle wrote:

If at some point we do something with Arcadia, I'd personally like to blur the real world lore from the fantasy world lore a bit. Fewer direct analogs and more inspiration. I frequently get annoyed with the eurocentric focus on how fantasy settings portray "New World" stuff. I'd like to see less beads, braids, and loincloths, fewer noble savages tropes. After all, if the Azlanti influenced the continents to the east, what's stopping them from influencing the continent to the west? Also, if the map lifted from Kintargo can be believed, there's not really a place for humanoid migration to have happened naturally. It's even more geographically isolated than Sarusan.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts.

Well, you could always revive the whole Asian/Tian Xia colonization on ships theory. Or use magic.

Then again, during Earthfall, there must have been a mini-Ice Age. The Arcadians could have arrived then, on the frozen ice sheet. If not with the Azlanti...

Isolation, however, could explain a different ecology (including monster ecology) well. No horses, but riding llamas. I'd hope there wasn't iron, if only because it eliminates so many cunning and interesting weapons.

Beads were a European import, anyway.

I wonder if a thriving Arcadia - with Lost City of Z and Mound Builder and Cibola-Quivera type cities could be explored...
Though the whole Croatoan-Roanoke-Mayan style semi-deserted feeling might be fun as well.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adam Daigle wrote:

If at some point we do something with Arcadia, I'd personally like to blur the real world lore from the fantasy world lore a bit. Fewer direct analogs and more inspiration. I frequently get annoyed with the eurocentric focus on how fantasy settings portray "New World" stuff. I'd like to see less beads, braids, and loincloths, fewer noble savages tropes. After all, if the Azlanti influenced the continents to the east, what's stopping them from influencing the continent to the west? Also, if the map lifted from Kintargo can be believed, there's not really a place for humanoid migration to have happened naturally. It's even more geographically isolated than Sarusan.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts.

I can definitely understand not wanting to use certain tired and sometimes negative tropes here and there, especially the noble savage. I think I'd prefer the Azlanti not really inspiring much of Arcadia to be honest, and instead have their own legendary empire that takes a bit from the Mayans and the legendary El Dorado. I guess I'd like to see Arcadian empires be able to stand on their own and not be dependent on empires from the east. Of course, I wouldn't worry about being just stuck with loincloths as much of the fashion in the Americas go beyond that. Here are a couple of ideas I have.

First, to deal with the issue of fashion, take a look at some of the current era of clothing from different peoples in the Americas. One example I'm doing in my artwork is combining the older clothing styles of the natives of the Caribbean with the more African/Spanish influenced clothing of modern day. Something like this would be interesting to use. Another piece of clothing that would be appropriate for Central and South America would be the poncho and its derivatives (serape, chamanto, etc). While predominately good for colder regions, you could easily have some in the warmer regions made of a lighter material than wool, such as cotton or silk. I'd also suggest looking at the clothing for the tribes more in the northern areas of North America, such as in New England and the Pacific Northwest. One thing I myself have considered was to look at some of the Eurasian pastoral tribes in history for more inspiration, like the Cossacks, the Huns, and the Khazars. I'd even say you guys can look at the Shoanti for some really cool imagery for the Arcadians.

For hairstyles, this website has some good pictures to use. As you can see, they are quite varied and some, like the whorls, get pretty creative looking. In addition to that, the native Taino of the Caribbean tended to have longer hair in the back of their heads, while their bangs were cut short and in a line. This is a good example of the hairstyle. I unfortunately know very little on the natives of South America and their fashion and hairstyles, but I hope some of what I found above helps a bit.

In addition to all of this, there is one inspiration you guys can take from theories that I haven't seen done yet. Aside from the Vikings and the Chinese, there is a theory not accepted by mainstream archaeology that states that Abubakari II of the Mali Empire of West Africa abdicated his throne and may have made the journey to the New World. Here is a BBC article about it. Whether it's true or not, it would be interesting to see a development of, say, a Garundi exploration vessel making landfall onto Arcadia and starting an empire, or even the Shory (although the Shory bit was done in Tian Xia).

Anyways, I hope some of this helps!


Jeff Erwin wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

If at some point we do something with Arcadia, I'd personally like to blur the real world lore from the fantasy world lore a bit. Fewer direct analogs and more inspiration. I frequently get annoyed with the eurocentric focus on how fantasy settings portray "New World" stuff. I'd like to see less beads, braids, and loincloths, fewer noble savages tropes. After all, if the Azlanti influenced the continents to the east, what's stopping them from influencing the continent to the west? Also, if the map lifted from Kintargo can be believed, there's not really a place for humanoid migration to have happened naturally. It's even more geographically isolated than Sarusan.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts.

Well, you could always revive the whole Asian/Tian Xia colonization on ships theory. Or use magic.

Then again, during Earthfall, there must have been a mini-Ice Age. The Arcadians could have arrived then, on the frozen ice sheet. If not with the Azlanti...

Isolation, however, could explain a different ecology (including monster ecology) well. No horses, but riding llamas. I'd hope there wasn't iron, if only because it eliminates so many cunning and interesting weapons.

Beads were a European import, anyway.

I wonder if a thriving Arcadia - with Lost City of Z and Mound Builder and Cibola-Quivera type cities could be explored...
Though the whole Croatoan-Roanoke-Mayan style semi-deserted feeling might be fun as well.

Llamas are a bit too small for humans to ride on sadly. But, with D&D's more exotic biology and ecosystem, I'm sure we could find something that could be a replacement for horses.

I'm suddenly loving the idea of bullette mounts! :)


I still want some Native American, Mayan, Aztec, etc. analogs because those are not cliché unlike the European stuff. With that being said there is plenty of room for the continent to have some weird and interesting stuff.

Also since the Sirynx(and more then likely the strix) is from there then we can have all kinds of weird races/cultures.

I like the idea of alternate mounts to replace horses.

I have no problem with Azlant and Tian Xia having influence over aspects of Arcadia as long as it isn't major. After all it still needs to be a place of it's own.

I like the idea of the Nazca lines but I still like the idea of them being landing spots/runways for flying machines.


I have a feeling none of us were thinking about going with the direct analogue approach for Arcadia

But rather, cultures/nations should be influenced by native cultures. They don't have to be at the same tech level however.

But it would be nice to seem some "alternative history" versions of Cahokia, Iroquois, and others.

As far as mounts, technically speaking the wild horse is native to North America. It was extirpated during the end Pleistocene extinctions, probably from a combination of disease, overkill, and climate change. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of a end Pleistocene extinction in Golarion, so there is no reason you can't have horses as mounts. If you want to crank up the wierdness, might I suggest looking to South America? They had a variety of wierd native "ungulates", like Macrauchenia and toxodonts, that might make good beasts of burden/mounts

I.e. Syrinx: It's interesting to note that owls are considered evil creatures in many NA cultures in at least eastern North America. I have no idea if that played into their creation or not, but if it didn't, it's an interesting coincidence.


Owls are considered evil in many NA cultures, that is interesting, never knew that info, thanks MMCJawa.

Sovereign Court Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:
Owls are considered evil in many NA cultures, that is interesting, never knew that info, thanks MMCJawa.

Actually, Athena's owl is kind of a weird exception; though there are others. Owls are feared or at least viewed as uncanny around the world. It may be because of their human-like, apparently flat face (it's really feathers that shapes their head so), or their call, or their nocturnal habits, or perhaps that weird way they can turn their head around.

Personally I like them.


MMCJawa wrote:

I have a feeling none of us were thinking about going with the direct analogue approach for Arcadia

But rather, cultures/nations should be influenced by native cultures. They don't have to be at the same tech level however.

But it would be nice to seem some "alternative history" versions of Cahokia, Iroquois, and others.

As far as mounts, technically speaking the wild horse is native to North America. It was extirpated during the end Pleistocene extinctions, probably from a combination of disease, overkill, and climate change. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of a end Pleistocene extinction in Golarion, so there is no reason you can't have horses as mounts. If you want to crank up the wierdness, might I suggest looking to South America? They had a variety of wierd native "ungulates", like Macrauchenia and toxodonts, that might make good beasts of burden/mounts

I.e. Syrinx: It's interesting to note that owls are considered evil creatures in many NA cultures in at least eastern North America. I have no idea if that played into their creation or not, but if it didn't, it's an interesting coincidence.

That's a good point. I can imagine Arcadia housing more megafauna, much like Garund has dinosaurs. Baluchitherium and megaloceros war mounts, arsinoitherium beasts of burden (and mount)... the possibilities are pretty awesome! Adding in the macrauchenia would be good and it'd definitely belong in the bestiary of the Arcadian Gazetteer. Same with the uintatherium as a beast of burden or war mount. Of course, we can get even crazier and use non-mammials like axe beaks for fast travel. Also, unrelated to travel, but I really want to see the arctocyon statted up.

I actually didn't know about the owl thing. Definitely interesting to hear!


6 people marked this as a favorite.

My thoughts, as always, are "Arcadia has been in contact with Avistani cultures for FIVE. THOUSAND. FRELLING. YEARS, which, let me remind you, is ten times as long as it's been in the real world, and if the Arcadians are running around as Native American Pastiches in warpaint and feathers and have strictly inferior magic and tech compared to the colonials it will be remarkably insulting and racist."

Please let them have civilizations comparable at the very least to the Linnorm Kingdoms, if not Cheliax and Andoran?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hopefully, when they get to Arcadia (and Southern Garund), they will go the same route as they did with Tian Xia. A lot of the nations in that have somewhat recognizable real world historical analogues, and I like to be able to look at a country and say "well that is inspired by Cambodia, that by Maoist China", etc. At the same time they pulled a lot from Asian Legend, and I got a feel that the country wasn't simply a rehash of occidental takes on the orient.

So I would like to see a nation that has routes in, say, the Iroquois League. But not a direct adaptation. Maybe just a lawful good democratic nation in a wooded region that has some touchstones in culture and religion from the Iroquois, but is equally advanced (either technologically or magically, or both) as someplace in the Inner Sea.

Mostly I want to see the above because honestly we get very very few fantasy versions of non European civilization, and as someone obsessed with world building its a bit disheartening. Also it seems a bit wierd that we would have fantasy versions of Europe, Africa, the middle-east, India, and East Asia on Golarion, but somehow the Americas are the one continent that gets the shaft.


I agree with you MMCJawa that we do get few fantasy versions of non-European civilizations. I really do want to see more of the other continents in Golarion.

Sovereign Court Contributor

MMCJawa wrote:

Hopefully, when they get to Arcadia (and Southern Garund), they will go the same route as they did with Tian Xia. A lot of the nations in that have somewhat recognizable real world historical analogues, and I like to be able to look at a country and say "well that is inspired by Cambodia, that by Maoist China", etc. At the same time they pulled a lot from Asian Legend, and I got a feel that the country wasn't simply a rehash of occidental takes on the orient.

So I would like to see a nation that has routes in, say, the Iroquois League. But not a direct adaptation. Maybe just a lawful good democratic nation in a wooded region that has some touchstones in culture and religion from the Iroquois, but is equally advanced (either technologically or magically, or both) as someplace in the Inner Sea.

Mostly I want to see the above because honestly we get very very few fantasy versions of non European civilization, and as someone obsessed with world building its a bit disheartening. Also it seems a bit wierd that we would have fantasy versions of Europe, Africa, the middle-east, India, and East Asia on Golarion, but somehow the Americas are the one continent that gets the shaft.

Technically, the analogy of the Americas and Oceania/Australia are still undescribed...

I agree, anyway. If we do have an Iroquois analogy I think we ought to have the False Face Society. Magic seems to be a great equalizer against technology and disease in Golarion, unlike in our world.

Liberty's Edge

10 people marked this as a favorite.

So, I've done a fair bit of thinking about this myself, so I have more than a few ideas. Please try to forgive me for the incoming wall of text. >_>

Firstly, as far as I can tell, we know the following about Arcadia and its inhabitants:

*The Syrinx live there. In case you don't know, the Syrinx are a mostly-Lawful Evil race of owl people who want to bring peace to the world by enslaving basically all other sentient beings. They appear to have kept, and possibly created, the Stryx (a group of whom live in the mountains of western Cheliax) as a servitor race, and they may have armies of the guys in their homeland. The Syrinx appear to be methodical and cautious; they know something about the nations of Avistand and GarundGarund, and may have even infiltrated some of them, but they're not about to stage any kind of invasion any time soon. In fact, their plans may well have been unfolding for longer than any of the Inner Sea nations have existed; fragmentary sources from before the earthfall suggest that a race of birdlike humanoids interacted with the Azlanti.

*The known inhabitants are, by and large, hostile and xenophobic. Valenhall was under more-or-less continuous attack until imported diseases devastated the local human population. Although the population has likely recovered, Valenhall is apparently full of Norse-style supernatural critters now, so the locals mostly leave it alone. Other colonies have rarely been so lucky, and few have survived for long, though both Cheliax and Andoran control a few settlements that have apparently been around since before the death of Aroden and the rise of House Thrune. It is telling, however, that neither of these countries seem to know anything about the Arcadians; diplomatic channels seem to be non-existent, even after centuries or more of cultural contact.

*At least some of the Arcadians, on the other hand, are unable to protect themselves from Chelaxian slavers. Cheliax imports slaves from Arcadia, and operates gold mines and marble quarries there that likely employ slave labor.

*The city of Senghor in the Mwangi Expanse was founded about two thousand years ago by a race of seafarers from the west who haven't been heard from in centuries. These visitors were capable of building highly advanced seacraft and fortifications, and had features suspiciously reminiscent of the ancient Azlanti.

*Arcadia is separated from Tian Xia by an ocean even larger than the Arcadian, and as far as anyone knows this ocean has never been crossed by human mariners.

---

So, based on all that, here are some of my guesses about Arcadia:

1. The Ancient Azlanti had colonies in Arcadia, and are the ancestors of at least part of the Arcadian population. This seems like a no-brainer to me, especially since Azlant seems to have been about as close to Arcadia as it was to the Inner Sea Region. In fact, it seems unlikely that any other humans *could* have populated Arcadia before its re-discovery by the Ulfen. Still, humans seemed to appear more or less spontaneously in Tian Xia during the Age of Darkness, so it's possible that something similar happened in Arcadia.

2. Whatever nations rule Arcadia, at least some of them are quite advanced. It strikes me as entirely possible that some survivors of the earthfall might have weathered the Ages with more of their lore intact than their cousins in Avistan and Garund. It might even be possible that Aroden spent a good part of his life among them before becoming a god; as far as I can tell, there isn't a lot of information about what Aroden was doing during most of the time between the earthfall and his divine ascension.

3. The Syrinx may well be in control of the entire continent, though the humans living there might not even know it. Just as Azlant was manipulated from the shadows by the Aboleths, the Syrinx could well have been pulling the strings of their successor-states in Arcadia for thousands of years. Perhaps the Syrinx arranged for the hostile greeting that early Avistani settlers encountered on the continent, and have actively worked to prevent communication with the colonizers, for fear that it would disrupt their complex web of control. Maybe the fact that the current batch of colonies have been doing somewhat better represents a change in strategy on the part of the Syrinx, and some or all of the "slaves" sent back to Cheliax are somehow agents serving avian masters. Maybe Aroden himself left Arcadia for parts east when he realized the extent of the Syrinx's control, and that even with all his power he could not overthrow them. And maybe that has something to do with his sudden and inexplicable disappearance a century ago...

4. The Azlanti worshiped a huge number of gods, demigods, demon lords, and so forth, many if not most of whom are now forgotten in the Inner Sea Region. It's entirely possible that Arcadian religions have little relation to those found on other continents. On the other hand, some ancient deities seem to be fairly universally recognized the world over, so I suspect that the Arcadian "pantheon" would include the likes of Abadar, Desna, Pharasma, and Shelyn under local names and guises.

---

Aside from all that speculation, I did have one specific idea for an Arcadian culture (one of many, to be sure) that I find really entertaining: Sky Captains of the Andes!

Considering the longevity of the pseudo-scholarly idea that the Nazca lines were meant to be viewed from above, possibly from some sort of simple hot air balloon, the concept of an "Incan-style" empire of aviators makes a certain amount of pop-cultural sense.

The Moche culture, another civilization in the Andean region that predates the Inca, were remarkable for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that they seem to have developed a process for electroplating precious metals onto less precious metals. In Golarion, a similar advancement might be the re-discovery of ancient Azlanti "electro-thaumaturgy," the technology that made the flying cities of the Shory possible.

So now I'm imagining a civilization that builds impossible cities, fortresses, and terraced farms on inaccessible mountaintops, linking their scattered holdings together with mighty flotillas of magi-technological airships and navigating through the use of mysterious signs inscribed on remote, inhospitable plains. They might even wield fearsome lightning-cannons and shock lances; gleaming armor of burnished horacalcum is optional, but I think it really completes the look. :P

I'd like to apologize for all the rambling I'm sure I just did... over the course of writing this post I've realized I'm a lot more tired than I thought I was when I started it. Hopefully some of it is interesting, at least!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gnoll Bard wrote:
Alot of cool stuff

I like a lot of that Gnoll Bard, especially the Moche Sky Captains idea. Just imagining flying magic vehicles flying through the Golarion Andes is giving me goosebumps and reminds me a bit of the Cuotl from Rise of Legends. It would be so cool to see a Machu Pichu meets Ba Sing Se.

I'm still not really keen on having the Arcadians as descendants of of Azlanti, but I like the Syrinx idea.

MMCJawa wrote:

Hopefully, when they get to Arcadia (and Southern Garund), they will go the same route as they did with Tian Xia. A lot of the nations in that have somewhat recognizable real world historical analogues, and I like to be able to look at a country and say "well that is inspired by Cambodia, that by Maoist China", etc. At the same time they pulled a lot from Asian Legend, and I got a feel that the country wasn't simply a rehash of occidental takes on the orient.

So I would like to see a nation that has routes in, say, the Iroquois League. But not a direct adaptation. Maybe just a lawful good democratic nation in a wooded region that has some touchstones in culture and religion from the Iroquois, but is equally advanced (either technologically or magically, or both) as someplace in the Inner Sea.

Mostly I want to see the above because honestly we get very very few fantasy versions of non European civilization, and as someone obsessed with world building its a bit disheartening. Also it seems a bit wierd that we would have fantasy versions of Europe, Africa, the middle-east, India, and East Asia on Golarion, but somehow the Americas are the one continent that gets the shaft.

I can understand. I've been wanting a fantasy version of the Pre-Columbian Caribbean for a long time, taking the folklore of the native Taino and running with it. Zemis, Hupias, Toas... it all fascinates me. Much of it is documented, but I learned a lot of it from oral stories from my family from Puerto Rico. If I could see this in print on Golarion, with many of the other Pre-Columbian civilizations, it would absolutely mean the world to me! I would honestly hug James Jacobs and sing Paizo's praises across the mountains :)

And, if Paizo ever wants someone that knows a decent amount about the culture of the Taino, I'm always a private message away! :)


A lot of interesting facts and ideas there Gnoll Bard. I like the idea of a race/group that has airships of some kind. Arcadia having azlanti people or at least some of there tech/magic does sound interesting as well.

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Glad you guys liked some of my ideas! I think that a skyfaring civilization living among the peaks of a high mountain range could make for some interesting interactions with the Syrinx and their Stryx subjects. Perhaps the "sky captains" have retreated to secret refuges that recall the modern-day legends surrounding sites like Machu Picchu and Vitcos, which the Spanish conquerors never found.

These inaccessible sanctuaries could be hidden by geography and magical wards, such that they can only be approached from specific routes encoded in aforementioned geoglyphs. I'm imagining the sky captains as stalwart and principled freedom-fighters (who might venerate Desna, along with other celestial powers of the sun, moon, and stars) waging a seemingly hopeless war against the slave nations of the Syrinx.

This could all, of course, be going on in a relatively self-contained region of Arcadia; it would be rather bland if every human on the continent was either a slave or a rebel under the Syrinx. Perhaps the influence of the owl-men grows more subtle and indirect farther from their mountain homes, or perhaps the efforts of the sky captains have prevented them from extending their dominion as far as they would like.

---

Another idea I had builds on the paradisical connotations of the name "Arcadia," as well as the significance of the continent (or at least the settlement of Valenhall) in the religion of the Ulfen.

Perhaps there's something otherworldly or inherently magical about the continent, moreso than many other parts of Golarion. Maybe those who travel to Arcadia from other lands, like elderly Ulfen kings attempting one last voyage across the sea, find some of their youth and vigor restored or enhanced when they draw near their destination.

Mortals living in Arcadia might enjoy greater health and longevity than those in other lands, with even humans living well past their hundredth year. This effect should be subtle since, to paraphrase an ancient saying, even in Arcadia there is death, and the natives are clearly as vulnerable to disease as anyone else. It could, however, lend an extra layer of mystery to the largely unknown continent, and would reflect the experiences of many real-world settlers of North America, who tended to live longer than their relatives in the disease-ridden cities of Europe.


I think the best way to deal with the Syrinx is to have their empire brought down by the Asteroid impact that took out Azlant. Presumably, if that had a huge impact on the Avistan, it would make sense that the continent on the other side of Azlant would also be severely affected.

In the modern era, the Syrinx would be slowly rebuilding their forces and coming out of hiding. Most of the other races, with the exception of maybe the Strix) would still be oblivious to them. I see the Syrinx as being a lot more behind the scenes players in the current era, manipulating the other races and nations into positions of weakness (or possibility dependency on Syrinx to remain in power/fight off opponents).

For all we know, the colonization of Arcadia by Avistan maybe an attempt to further destablize the continent. Maybe provide a common enemy that the natives can rally against, underneath Syrinx rulership of course.

Editor

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Other cultural practices we could consider as sources of inspiration: many coastal tribes in the Pacific Northwest have strong traditions of travel and hospitality; potlatch culture and canoe culture are two aspects of that (banned for decades but now being revived!). The details vary between tribes, but here are a few common threads that could be taken up as flavor or to motivate adventures:

• Wealth and prestige are measured by how much you give away, not how much you have, and reciprocity is expected of recipients (intangibles like ceremonies, songs, and dances may count, so bards and other magic users would be useful if the PCs have little material wealth to spare; alternatively, the PCs might need to adventure to gain enough wealth to properly reciprocate).
• Long journeys for diplomacy or trade (these days people canoe down from Alaska, so... could be 1,000 miles or more; means of transportation could vary wildly, and might be magical/monstrous).
• Elaborate landing protocol to indicate peaceful intent when you approach another tribe's shores/lands. (A similar custom called "Stranger Greeting" is described in the fourth installment of "Plague of Light" (Pathfinder Adventure Path #40: The Vaults of Madness.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

These ideas are really good. I went ahead and updated the Google Drive Document with everyone's ideas. I had to call the Moche/Incan nation "The Skycaptains of Machu Pichu". It sounds a bit like a B-movie but I'd love to see it! :)

When they describe the natives that encountered the Ulfen as xenophobic, I always felt that it was looking through the lens of the Ulfen. Remember than many are vikings and thus, marauders and raiders. So now, the Arcadians that first met them see them as invaders and a scourge because of both the raiding and bringer of diseases.

This has made me wonder, since the Arcadians must know about the colonists coming in and making camp, we have to wonder why they haven't done anything about it yet. Could they be biding their time, since they've never even considered people beyond the Arcadian ocean? Perhaps they underestimate the invading colonists? Or maybe something completely different.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

There are a lot of accounts from European explorers of giants living amongst the natives of the americas. Some standing head and shoulders above the rest of their tribe. Might be an interesting angle to work in, though it has kind of been do e in Avistan already with the Ulfen adopting 'displaced' frost giant youths from defeated bands.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Did someone already mention Incan knot-language/encoding? I think a magic system based on knots would be very cool. And traditional (in Western magic too).

The Siete Cuidades and the Kingdom of Saguenay suggest that isolated, advanced cities should be in Arcadia, perhaps only vaguely known to the Avistani colonists.

I personally think the talking animal trope could be done well (at least with Coyote - I know a 3pp company has done that) here; something like in Ursula Le Guin's Buffalo Gals.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Odraude wrote:

These ideas are really good. I went ahead and updated the Google Drive Document with everyone's ideas. I had to call the Moche/Incan nation "The Skycaptains of Machu Pichu". It sounds a bit like a B-movie but I'd love to see it! :)

When they describe the natives that encountered the Ulfen as xenophobic, I always felt that it was looking through the lens of the Ulfen. Remember than many are vikings and thus, marauders and raiders. So now, the Arcadians that first met them see them as invaders and a scourge because of both the raiding and bringer of diseases.

This has made me wonder, since the Arcadians must know about the colonists coming in and making camp, we have to wonder why they haven't done anything about it yet. Could they be biding their time, since they've never even considered people beyond the Arcadian ocean? Perhaps they underestimate the invading colonists? Or maybe something completely different.

Let me remind you:

FIVE. THOUSAND. YEARS.

The colonists are not news. They're part of the landscape.


Jeff Erwin wrote:

Did someone already mention Incan knot-language/encoding? I think a magic system based on knots would be very cool. And traditional (in Western magic too).

The Siete Cuidades and the Kingdom of Saguenay suggest that isolated, advanced cities should be in Arcadia, perhaps only vaguely known to the Avistani colonists.

I personally think the talking animal trope could be done well (at least with Coyote - I know a 3pp company has done that) here; something like in Ursula Le Guin's Buffalo Gals.

I had forgotten about the Quipu. I always thought it'd be really interesting to see the quipu as an option for a spellbook for a wizard.

Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
Odraude wrote:

These ideas are really good. I went ahead and updated the Google Drive Document with everyone's ideas. I had to call the Moche/Incan nation "The Skycaptains of Machu Pichu". It sounds a bit like a B-movie but I'd love to see it! :)

When they describe the natives that encountered the Ulfen as xenophobic, I always felt that it was looking through the lens of the Ulfen. Remember than many are vikings and thus, marauders and raiders. So now, the Arcadians that first met them see them as invaders and a scourge because of both the raiding and bringer of diseases.

This has made me wonder, since the Arcadians must know about the colonists coming in and making camp, we have to wonder why they haven't done anything about it yet. Could they be biding their time, since they've never even considered people beyond the Arcadian ocean? Perhaps they underestimate the invading colonists? Or maybe something completely different.

Let me remind you:

FIVE. THOUSAND. YEARS.

The colonists are not news. They're part of the landscape.

That's not completely true. Valenhall has been in the area for 5,000 years, but the other colonies are very recent. So the Arcadians wouldn't be use to them yet.


And if Valenhall is in a similar location comparable to that Greenland and Newfoundland, it would probably be in a lightly populated peripheral region of Arcadia, and might have relatively little contact with the rest of Arcadia. I have no clue where Cheliax and Andoran have their colonies, but I assume it is in a more temperate region.

Something to keep in mind too, is that the relative impact of those colonies might be incredibly minor compared to other problems Arcadia might be facing. Western European history makes a big deal of the Crusades, but it was barely worth comment by middle-eastern historians. The Avistan colonies might have a similar influence on overall Arcadian politics and civilization.


Mystery Monsters Revisited also has a bit on Arcadia, in relation to Sasquatch.

There are apparently legends of a reclusive race of humanoids of mixed Sasquatch and human descent.

So I am calling it...One of the "player races" in Arcadia are "Half Sasquatch".

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's worth pointing out that, in the real world, European explorers and the peoples they encountered in the Americas figured out how to communicate with each other very quickly, and were interacting in all sorts of non-violent ways pretty much from the get-go. In fact, I don't think there are hardly any examples of American peoples reacting to European newcomers with unprovoked violence.

Even conquerors like Cortez and Pizarro made use of native allies, meaning that some people in the Americas were pretty keen to take advantage of their arrival for political gain. Compare that to the situation in Arcadia: soon after Valenhall was founded, it came under attack, and once these attacks proved fruitless the local people seem to have decided to just ignore this new settlement in their midst. For five thousand years.

Likewise, despite Andoran and Cheliax having had colonies in Arcadia for at least a century, the Arcadians don't seem to be conducting any sort of trade or negotiations with them at all. Again, interactions seem to be pretty much limited to warfare and avoidance.

This indicates to me that there's something very strange going on in Arcadia. I suspect it has something to do with the Syrinx; their entry in the Inner Sea Bestiary says that they rule (present tense) over an immense hierarchy of slaves. Whether or not they were around in the time of Azlant is mostly speculation; that they are powerful now is pretty much established fact.

Of course, I could easily be placing too much importance on the Syrinx due to them being the only race native to Arcadia that we know much of anything about. I was looking at Mythical Monsters Revisited earlier today and noticed that it hinted at the Couatl being more numerous and influential in Arcadia than they are in the Inner Sea Region, which means that there are powerful good-aligned forces at work on the continent as well.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Just for the record, I'm not saying that the Native American peoples living in the era of European contact were any less prone to violence than any other human society. I'm just saying that a lot of trade and communication happened in between and during the better-known periods of violence.

Speaking of which, from my own knowledge of pre-contact lifeways here in California, I can say that North America had an extensive network of overland trade in addition to the aforementioned oceangoing trade in the northwest. Obsidian, in particular, was a valueable commodity, and obsidian from sources as far away as the eastern Sierra Nevada Mountains has been found all along the California coast.

The inhabitants of the California channel islands seem to have relied pretty heavily on trade. They spent an unusual amount of time and energy crafting various decorative and functional objects from the local soapstone for the express purpose of exporting them to the mainland. Some of these artifacts have been found as far away as Colorado and New Mexico, which is especially impressive considering the ruggedness of the terrain. Of course, no one person likely carried these objects all that way, but trade between different nomadic and semi-sedentary groups seems to have been more-or-less ubiquitous across much of North America.

Now, none of this would necessarily be all that unusual in a region with well-established states using medieval or early modern technology, but it does go to show that even without any beasts of burden, small-volume trade can thrive over land as well as sea.

Sovereign Court

I really hope that Paizo do something with et in arcadia ego

The Greece analogue is suitably positioned to have some interaction+distance+confusion=imagination responses to Arcadia.

Will we be seeing South Sea Islanders too?


Calming down a little, sorry...

We do have to factor in a typical monster-infested landscape, and probably tribes of evil-aligned savage humanoids making life unpleasant for everyone else. Trade and expansion everywhere will be more difficult than the Earth-equivalent regions (though far from impossible).

Still, any technologies and cultural advances brought by the Ulfen will have had five thousand years to diffuse throughout the continent. That may even be a long enough span of time for domesticated animals and crops to adapt (or be adapted to) varying climates along Arcadia's predominantly north-south axis, buffering the possibility of serious agriculture, city-building, and resistance to disease. (If you haven't read Guns, Germs, and Steel, you should.)

Cheliax and Andoran... does it say anywhere how long those colonies have been established? An Andoren colony is by definition under a century old, but Cheliax has been around longer.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would suggest Charles Mann's book 1491 for inspiration.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:

Calming down a little, sorry...

We do have to factor in a typical monster-infested landscape, and probably tribes of evil-aligned savage humanoids making life unpleasant for everyone else. Trade and expansion everywhere will be more difficult than the Earth-equivalent regions (though far from impossible).

Still, any technologies and cultural advances brought by the Ulfen will have had five thousand years to diffuse throughout the continent. That may even be a long enough span of time for domesticated animals and crops to adapt (or be adapted to) varying climates along Arcadia's predominantly north-south axis, buffering the possibility of serious agriculture, city-building, and resistance to disease. (If you haven't read Guns, Germs, and Steel, you should.)

Cheliax and Andoran... does it say anywhere how long those colonies have been established? An Andoren colony is by definition under a century old, but Cheliax has been around longer.

If there's some sort of magical obsidian around, we could reasonably have Macuahuitl around, even with Ulfen contact. Or there could simply be a shortage of iron. I think giving a "New World" feel does mean that they are needed...


2 people marked this as a favorite.

One thing I'd love to see that we got to see with Tian-Xia are monstrous race nations. I've always ran kobolds to be more like the plains tribes of North America, and I think that it'd be cool to see a nation of kobolds like that, centered around a leadership of dragon shamans perhaps. Also, a nation run by a bestiary creature would be interesting. I think the obvious choice would be the couatl. Either a nation ruled by a singular cuoatl or a council of cuoatl that own several city-states. Would make a cool good-aligned nation.

For evil-aligned nation, I was actually thinking of a nation of tundra peoples ruled over by an insidious wendigo that demands sacrifice and expansion to feed its insatiable hunger. It'd make a great enemy nation that clearly cannot support itself without a constant influx of newly conquered peoples and make a good foil for the PCs.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

There really is no reason to assume Arcadia doesn't have a equivalent degree of technological and/or magical development as Avistan. Even before the Ulfen settlement, they had steady contact with the Azlanti and were (probably?) under the control of a magically advanced race, the Syrinx. Plus, the whole "gods and magic are real" is going to results in technological developments different than that real life North America.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think you could still have obsidian weapons around even with metallurgy and magic. It could be out of tradition, or a special usage of obsidian and magic. I remember in the Bestiary 4 wishlist, I had a concept of Obsidian Constructs with the prefix Itzli, which is Nahuatl for 'obsidian', that would be obsidian and granite constructs similar in style to the Cuotl of Rise of Legends and the Stone Jaguar from The Road to El Dorado. I think that would be pretty cool for the more Aztec-inspired nation in Arcadia. Obsidian constructs given life by the blood of their sacrificial victims. Or given life by other methods we can come up with.


I would love a nation ruled by a Couatl or a group of them.

I would love to see trains somewhere on Golarion or at least rules for such things.

A variety of races/cultures both human and non-human and both real world inspired and completely out there.

New special materials are always welcome.

Well when/if we get to Arcadia at least we will get 5 to new payable races to use for that continent.

Contributor

3 people marked this as a favorite.

How much influence does chocolate have in Arcadia?

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:


I would love a nation ruled by a Couatl or a group of them.

I would love to see trains somewhere on Golarion or at least rules for such things.

A variety of races/cultures both human and non-human and both real world inspired and completely out there.

New special materials are always welcome.

Well when/if we get to Arcadia at least we will get 5 to new payable races to use for that continent.

Nushiwa (coyote people)-probably as a playable race (+2 dex,-2wis,+2cha)

Maybe something like Kachimas and Manitou, probably treated much like Kami are in Tien Xia but not called Kachima/Manitou because Native Americans are more sensitive about cultural appropriation.
Sasquach
Buffalo Chicken-the avian buffalo of the plains whose taste is very spicy.
Coatls filling a niche very much like dragons.
Maybe a pueblo based culture which is closer to Chaco Canyon culture i.e. more hierachical, with an upper class practicing cannabalism to keep others in line and latter a period of heavy warfare.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

When they add races for Arcadia, I'd like to see each race tie to an area and culture in that area. So for example (all of which Pre-Columbian):

- One race based on Mesoamerican folklore
- One race based on South American folklore
- One race based on US folklore
- One race based on Canada folklore
- One race based on Caribbean folklore

Coyote is a good example to use as a race. I could also see the same thing with the quetzal from Central America. Perhaps descendents of a powerful couatl that are flightless but retain much of their plumage. I'd almost say something similar to the Kroot from Warhammer 40K.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I could see Manitou being a sort of native outsider type, within which you might have trickster beings like Coyote, etc

Liberty's Edge

Well, the Syrinx are presented as a more-or-less PC appropriate race, at least in terms of power level, as I recall. That could encompass the "bird man" archetype found in the artwork of so many native american groups.

Never heard of a Nushiwa before, but they do sound interesting. Although it might be kind of a cop-out, I think it would make some sense to have a catch-all race of intelligent shapeshifting animals like the Hengeyokai in 3.5. In addition to the obvious myths regarding more-or-less anthropomorphic beings associated with particular animals, there are a lot of stories across the americas about animals that can disguise themselves as humans, ranging from magical sea-otters in the arctic northwest to tricky river dolphins in the amazon.

A number of North American cultures (like a whole lot of other cultures around the world) had stories about various sorts of magical little people, so it might make sense to have halflings or gnomes or some offshoot thereof around. Halflings might even be native to that hemisphere, or descended from a race that is; aside from a few elves who claim that their ancestors noticed halflings living among humans in the age of Azlant, halfling history is pretty much a mystery before they appear in Osiriani records as slaves.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

I've been quietly working on an Arcadian gazetteer, no plans on where I'm going with it, but I've been working on similar North American fantasy projects for decades.

The key is absolute diversity in cultures and peoples, in my opinion. I've written out way too many cultures for anyone to ever use, been trying to pare them down to something more manageable.

My Arcadia is very Golarion, I kept Arcadian variants of elves, gnomes, rare dwarves -- they map quite easily to continental legends.

Quick samples of three key nations:

Fivepath League
Council-United Powerhouse of the Moon Lakes
Alignment: N
Capital: Longhouse
Notable Settlements: Southtrade, Centerfire, Sapling Gate (Eastgate), Flint Gate (Westgate), Lakehome, Far Trail's End
Ruler: Grand Council; High Sachem Pesawut (LN female Dineh oracle 11)
Government: Fledgling Democracy
Major Races: Dineh-Sioqwi (also Dineh-Wakalgan, Dineh-Athapask, Shee (Elves), Nirumbee (Gnomes), Half-Shee, Halflings
Languages: Sioqwi, Trade
Religion: Great Manitou, Three Sisters, Handsomeway (LG)
Resources: Fish, maize, beans, squash, gift economy, deer, tobacco, berries

=====

Deepening Woods
Hidden Nation of the Arcadian Elves
Alignment: CG
Capital: Sugarmaple Grove
Notable Settlements: Small elven groves spread through the Deepening Woods, Beechtree
Ruler: Sachem Behind the Aspen (LG male Arcadian Elf fighter 14)
Government: Chiefdom
Major Races: Elves (some Half-Elves, Gnomes)
Languages: Elvish, Trade, Sioqwi
Religion: Elvish
Resources: Rare woods, carvings, art, berries, spices, knowledge, arcana

=====

Ilinassi
Great River Empire in Decline
Alignment: LE
Capital: Sun Bluff City
Notable Settlements: Ikoma, Red Bend City, Misiqa, Dyanda, Risewatch, Troubled Hill, Nasayii, Talaqsa, Northwar City
Ruler: Grand Sun Sachem Imisquatcha (LE male Dineh-Tanozic aristocrat 13)
Government: Totalitarian Religious Empire
Major Races: Dineh-Tanozic, Nimerigar (Dwarf) advisors
Languages: Tanozic, Trade
Religion: Sun Worship, diabloism, Three Sisters
Resources: Arcana, knowledge, metalworks, armaments, shipment, South Arcadia trade, agriculture, alchemy


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Here are the major roadblocks I felt merited attention:

Horses. This isn't Earth, and as has been pointed out, the Ulfen have had a fort here for five, thousand, years.

So horses: Arcadia has them. It has cavaliers and paladin mounts and a long legend that goes along with their reemergence, involving (naturally) a trickster culture hero. And trade is far beyond what might be expected, thanks to the return of horses.

Disease. Arcadia has clerics, so that is not the devastating tragedy it would have been.

Metallurgy. A bit of cheat, a bit of RAW. Low level magic weapons are slightly more common, bypassing fragility. A lot of masterwork, and a fair bit more metal than otherwise expected (dwarves, Ulfen). Druids do a brisk trade in wood shaping and hardening, and the Shee/elves know of rare hardwoods that equate with metal plating.

Those 5000 Years of Vikings: this one hurts. It just feels like someone didn't really study their own timeline, but It Is What It Is. So I had to reverse the joke.

The 'Skraeling' are a barbaric tribe looked down upon by everyone for weakness and depravity. They, and a never ending band of monstrous humanoids have been locked in battle with the Invaders for millennia. The region itself is cursed, blurring time and stoking aggression. All civilized people avoid the entire nation, pitying those trapped within. If your average Arcadian knew that the Linnorn Kings were shipping more of their people in to this day they would be positively horrified.

I'm afraid I don't have the best interests of the Aldorians and Chelish conquistadors in mind, either. Their stories are easier, but their lives might get a bit difficult.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

My weakness is detail, so have an overdone and poorly formatted What's For Lunch chart for Northern Arcadia!

d100 General (all regions)
1-2 Baked squash
3-4 Roasted maize
5-6 Fried beans
7-8 Poached eggs
9-10 Batter bread
11-12 Bean soup
13-14 Black bean cakes
15-16 Flat cakes
17-18 Fry bread
19-20 Game stew
21-22 Hominy soup
23-24 Honey baked squash
25-26 Jerky stew
27-28 Leaf bread
29-30 Maize griddle cakes
31-32 Maize pudding
33-34 Maple syrup candy
35-36 Pemmican
37-38 Pepper pot soup
39-40 Pine nut soup
41-42 Pumpkin soup
43-44 Rabbit stew
45-46 Sisters succotash
47-48 Squaw cake
49-50 Wild greens and flowers salad
51-52 Wild rice cakes
53-90 Regional Food
91-92 Southeastern Food
93-94 Northeastern Food
95-96 Central Food
97-98 Southwestern Food
99-00 Northwestern Food

d100 Central Region Foods
1-5 Broiled sunchoke
6-10 Broiled trout
11-15 Buffalo and berry soup
16-20 Buffalo jerky
21-25 Buffalo medicine sausage
26-30 Cattail pollen flapjacks
31-35 Chokecherry pudding
36-40 Ember-roasted buffalo
41-45 Fork-tail fried yeast bread
46-50 Fried deer liver
51-55 Fried frog's legs
56-60 Green grouse stew
61-65 High Plains pemmican
66-70 Maizemeal pemmican
71-75 Roast prairie chicken
76-80 Sauteed mushrooms and onions
81-85 Serviceberry cake
86-90 Stuffed sugar pumpkin
91-95 Turnip and maize soup
96-00 Venison mincemeat pie

d100 Northeast Region Foods
1-5 Cider-basted goose
6-10 Clam chowder
11-15 Clambake
16-20 Codfish balls
21-25 Cranberry pudding
26-30 Cranberry-maple sauce
31-35 Duck with wild rice and mushrooms
36-40 Fivepath fish soup
41-45 Hazelnut cakes
46-50 Honey-basted turkey
51-55 Maple maize balls
56-60 Maple molasses baked beans
61-65 Maple sugar fish
66-70 Maple-vinegar venison racks
71-75 Sauteed morels
76-80 Sunchoke soup
81-85 Sunflower seed soup
86-90 Watercress salad
91-95 Wild rice and eggs
96-00 Wild strawberry bread

d100 Northwest Region Foods
1-5 Acorn griddle cakes
6-10 Boiled seagull eggs
11-15 Boiled seaweed
16-20 Cedar salmon bake
21-25 Crab-stuffed halibut
26-30 Cranberry jelly
31-35 Deer steak
36-40 Elk stew with acorn dumplings
41-45 Grilled goose
46-50 Honey-ginger baked tule
51-55 Huckleberry fritters
56-60 Huckleberry-glaze duck
61-65 Oyster-hazelnut soup
66-70 Oyster-potato cakes
71-75 Raspberries and honey
76-80 Raspberry acorn pudding
81-85 Rose hip tea
86-90 Salmon cakes
91-95 Salmon chowder
96-00 Steamed fiddleheads

d100 Southeast Region Foods
1-5 Acorn biscuits
6-10 Blackberry cobbler
11-15 Blue grape dumplings
16-20 Carrot bread
21-25 Fried tomato pones
26-30 Grape-stuffed fish
31-35 Green cob jelly
36-40 Hashed hominy
41-45 Hickory nuts
46-50 Huckleberry-honey cake
51-55 Maize fritters
56-60 Molasses bread pudding
61-65 Peanut soup
66-70 Pecan soup
71-75 Persimmon pudding
76-80 Red and green mixit
81-85 Sassafras chicken stew
86-90 Sassafras crawfish stew
91-95 Spiced sunchokes
96-00 Sweet potato cakes

d100 Southwest Region Foods
1-5 Adobe bread
6-10 Bighorn lamb stew
11-15 Blue maize griddle cakes
16-20 Cactus and eggs
21-25 Cactus fruit jelly
26-30 Cactus salad
31-35 Carrot hash
36-40 Chili fritter
41-45 Dried maize soup
46-50 Fried squash blossoms
51-55 Garbanzo soup
56-60 Maize stew with blue dumplings
61-65 Posole (Hominy chili stew)
66-70 Pumpkin candy
71-75 Pumpkin-pine nut bread
76-80 Refried pinto beans
81-85 Spitsweet fruit pie
86-90 Stuffed sweet peppers
91-95 Tortilla soup
96-00 Wild sage bread

1 to 50 of 671 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / Arcadia: Resources & Brainstorming All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.