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Paladin with a Katana


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If a paladin has a katana, can he dishonor the sword and have it break by doing something that doesn't actually break his paladin code?


... I don't understand the question... the sword is just a sword it doesn't have a code of honor so it will only break if you intentionally put a lot of stress on it(smashing it with a massive boulder for example). The paladins code has nothing to do with the katana. Kudos though and picking a different weapon for your paladin. Long swords are way too common.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Cranefist wrote:
If a paladin has a katana, can he dishonor the sword and have it break by doing something that doesn't actually break his paladin code?

The katana is just another kind of weapon, and they were a dime a dozen among the martials in Imperial Japan. (Of course that's still a major cut above what was available to the commoners who had to make do with repurposed farm implements)

If a katana breaks it's most likely because it's been sundered by your opponent. (Katanas don't enjoy any special immunity to sundering)


LazarX wrote:
Cranefist wrote:
If a paladin has a katana, can he dishonor the sword and have it break by doing something that doesn't actually break his paladin code?

The katana is just another kind of weapon, and they were a dime a dozen among the martials in Imperial Japan. (Of course that's still a major cut above what was available to the commoners who had to make do with repurposed farm implements)

If a katana breaks it's most likely because it's been sundered by your opponent. (Katanas don't enjoy any special immunity to sundering)

A katana should be indestructible if you have a lawful alignment.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Jabadahut50 wrote:
... I don't understand the question... the sword is just a sword it doesn't have a code of honor so it will only break if you intentionally put a lot of stress on it(smashing it with a massive boulder for example). The paladins code has nothing to do with the katana. Kudos though and picking a different weapon for your paladin. Long swords are way too common.

I've yet to see a Paladin with a longswordin Pathfinder, unless she was an Iomedan zealot and those I've only seen described as NPCs.

Shadow Lodge

Generally, no.

However, it is an interesting bit of flavour, and it could work thematically with any sword since there's a pretty strong association between swords in general and honour. If you wanted to introduce that into your game, I would give the paladin a magic sword with some particularly strong connection to honour. An intelligent and LG-aligned sword would be preferable. The Axiomatic or Defiant qualities also seem approtiate. Maybe it was previously owned by an extremely honourable warrior.

Now, while paladins are required to be honourable there are some arguably dishonourable actions that most GMs would not consider grounds for a fall - for example, retreating from an unwinnable battle. The extra-honourable magical sword could take offense at these actions and crack.

However, I wouldn't introduce this into a game lightly since while it's a cool bit of symbolism it's a bit unfair to penalize a paladin for something that you don't think is worth a fall - unless it's a warning that he might be headed for a fall if he continues along his present coruse. I personally think the best use of this imagery would be either a LG intelligent sword objecting to its non-LG wielder, or to emphasize the fall of a paladin - kill an innocent and your divinely bonded sword breaks in your hand.


LazarX wrote:
Jabadahut50 wrote:
... I don't understand the question... the sword is just a sword it doesn't have a code of honor so it will only break if you intentionally put a lot of stress on it(smashing it with a massive boulder for example). The paladins code has nothing to do with the katana. Kudos though and picking a different weapon for your paladin. Long swords are way too common.
I've yet to see a Paladin with a longswordin Pathfinder, unless she was an Iomedan zealot and those I've only seen described as NPCs.

My current Paladin carries a long sword. (Homebrew, not society or anything). Of course he has only drawn his sword once and has just hit 7th level.


This is literally the weirdest thing I've ever hear. Even if you enhance your your sword via your Pali bond, it still follows the rules for weapons. So no, it won't break for spontaneous non-LG acts.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Cranefist wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Cranefist wrote:
If a paladin has a katana, can he dishonor the sword and have it break by doing something that doesn't actually break his paladin code?

The katana is just another kind of weapon, and they were a dime a dozen among the martials in Imperial Japan. (Of course that's still a major cut above what was available to the commoners who had to make do with repurposed farm implements)

If a katana breaks it's most likely because it's been sundered by your opponent. (Katanas don't enjoy any special immunity to sundering)

A katana should be indestructible if you have a lawful alignment.

Because katanas are superspecialawesome and are the bestest weapon evar I suppose?

Qadira

FallofCamelot wrote:


Because katanas are superspecialawesome and are the bestest weapon evar I suppose?

Yes. In the hands of a master, a katana can cut through a tank. (No, I don't mean a heavily-armored fighter; I'm talking about an M1 Abrams.)


5 people marked this as a favorite.

In Old Country, tank cut through katana.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Shadowborn wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:


Because katanas are superspecialawesome and are the bestest weapon evar I suppose?

Yes. In the hands of a master, a katana can cut through a tank. (No, I don't mean a heavily-armored fighter; I'm talking about an M1 Abrams.)

Thanks for the giggle.

On the off chance that you are actually serious there is no way a three foot length of metal swung by your hand can cut through 10cms of armour.

The katana was an excellent weapon, that is not in question, but they are not magic cutting tools of supersharpness outside of certain anime.

Katanas are not unbreakable, they are not supernaturally sharp and they are not necessarily the finest sword ever made- that title is debatable.


Agreed with Fall. Let me me put it this way. I don't care what sword you have, I'd rather not be hit with it. I'll die unless, maybe, if 'm wearing armor.

Cheliax

What in the nine Hells is going on in this thread.

Do I need to bust out the Katana copypasta again?


Cranefist wrote:
A katana should be indestructible if you have a lawful alignment.

I'm not sure which anime movie you're getting this concept from but a katana is just a Japanese made sword. It served as a badge along with the wakizashi when carried by samurai, but this was only the case during the Tokugawa Era (1600 - 1853) during a more modern period when peace reigned for the most part.

The katana is also worn officially by recognized administrators - not just samurai, including yakuza bosses, physicians, and others but were only allowed to bear the single katana, not accompanied by the wakizashi. Commoners could bear katana in daily life, up until edicts of Hideyoshi Toyotomi (1585), though most could not afford one.

I could certainly see a particular magic item being an indestructible sword, even a katana, but "all katanas"? That seems silly.

Before 1400 the yumi longbow was the definitive samurai weapon, with katana relegated to 'side arm' status. A samurai warrior uses a katana only when he runs out of arrows, if his bow breaks, or he is unhorsed.

Cheliax

I did not not think we were allowed to talk about katanas based on their sheer awesomeness and on account of us being mere mortals and the katana being the preferred weapon of every god in every universe that ever needed to cut through ten feet of steel plated armor but if we do I just want to make sure we're talking about the 5d20 version with the 10-20 crit range that I use in my games because that's the only real one and also because katanas are awesome...like Chuck Norris awesome.


The problem with a True Katana (read: one crafted by a true smith before the Meiji Restoration wiped them all out) is that it only expresses its real power to one who has a strong soul. To an ordinary man, such as any who would decry the real power of a Katana, all it is is an ordinary sword, with no real power and a sleeping spirit, just waiting and hoping to one day find a wielder worthy to awaken it.

Spoiler:
Disclaimer: I don't believe a word I just typed xD


kyrt-ryder wrote:

The problem with a True Katana (read: one crafted by a true smith before the Meiji Restoration wiped them all out) is that it only expresses its real power to one who has a strong soul. To an ordinary man, such as any who would decry the real power of a Katana, all it is is an ordinary sword, with no real power and a sleeping spirit, just waiting and hoping to one day find a wielder worthy to awaken it.

** spoiler omitted **

On the other hand, I'm almost finished creating a Kaidan supplement called #30 Ancestral Relics through Rite Publishing that include katana (among many other Japanese items) that contain the bound spirit of a possessor's ancestor and power up as the character levels, but requiring both a minimum amount of Honor (Kaidan mechanic) and a trigger event - something the possessor has to do; defeat a monster, convince a superior your point through deft diplomacy, perform a service to someone unworthy for no benefit, etc., in order to level up with an items power.

So an indestructible sword is a possibility, but it would be a rare, near artifact quality item.

Qadira

FallofCamelot wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:


Because katanas are superspecialawesome and are the bestest weapon evar I suppose?

Yes. In the hands of a master, a katana can cut through a tank. (No, I don't mean a heavily-armored fighter; I'm talking about an M1 Abrams.)

Thanks for the giggle.

On the off chance that you are actually serious there is no way a three foot length of metal swung by your hand can cut through 10cms of armour.

The katana was an excellent weapon, that is not in question, but they are not magic cutting tools of supersharpness outside of certain anime.

Katanas are not unbreakable, they are not supernaturally sharp and they are not necessarily the finest sword ever made- that title is debatable.

But it must be true. I read it on the Internet. (And, I think, saw it once on an episode of G.I. Joe.) But thanks for erring on the side of pedantry. That always gives me a giggle.


Shadowborn wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:


Because katanas are superspecialawesome and are the bestest weapon evar I suppose?

Yes. In the hands of a master, a katana can cut through a tank. (No, I don't mean a heavily-armored fighter; I'm talking about an M1 Abrams.)

Thanks for the giggle.

On the off chance that you are actually serious there is no way a three foot length of metal swung by your hand can cut through 10cms of armour.

The katana was an excellent weapon, that is not in question, but they are not magic cutting tools of supersharpness outside of certain anime.

Katanas are not unbreakable, they are not supernaturally sharp and they are not necessarily the finest sword ever made- that title is debatable.

But it must be true. I read it on the Internet. (And, I think, saw it once on an episode of G.I. Joe.) But thanks for erring on the side of pedantry. That always gives me a giggle.

Don't forget about the Ninja Gaiden game where you fight a tank with your sword!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Shadowborn wrote:
But it must be true. I read it on the Internet. (And, I think, saw it once on an episode of G.I. Joe.) But thanks for erring on the side of pedantry. That always gives me a giggle.

You're welcome :).

Actually I forgot that old episodes of GI Joe are the internationally recognised final arbiters of what a Katana can and cannot do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Don't forget about the Ninja Gaiden game where you fight a tank with your sword!

Just a tank? Pfft. I've seen a katana cut through 30ft+ wide warships in a single strike.

Anime can't be wrong, can it? Its a Japanese weapon in a Japanese show. Surely they know what the katana is truly capable of.


...all jokes aside I want to know why he thinks the katana can't be broken unless he is just trying to be a troll. O.o Help his logic make sense!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Jeraa wrote:
Quote:
Don't forget about the Ninja Gaiden game where you fight a tank with your sword!

Just a tank? Pfft. I've seen a katana cut through 30ft+ wide warships in a single strike.

Anime can't be wrong, can it? Its a Japanese weapon in a Japanese show. Surely they know what the katana is truly capable of.

Very true. Anime as an artform is naturally understated and very close to reality. I just couldn't imagine an anime that went to any degree of excess.

Frankly I could not imagine anime without the naturalistic realism that informs the artform. To imagine an anime containing over the top explosions, abstract anatomies or rediculous plots would be like finding a factual error on the internet.


I just finished building a paladin character with a katana. I saw the thread title and got excited... Then read it, and became very sad.


I'm going to post my awakened blade rules for paladins in the house rules thread. I think paladins are a little under powered to wizards so I'm going to give them full channeling and channel smite as a free feat when using a katana.

Shadow Lodge

Cranefist wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Cranefist wrote:
If a paladin has a katana, can he dishonor the sword and have it break by doing something that doesn't actually break his paladin code?

The katana is just another kind of weapon, and they were a dime a dozen among the martials in Imperial Japan. (Of course that's still a major cut above what was available to the commoners who had to make do with repurposed farm implements)

If a katana breaks it's most likely because it's been sundered by your opponent. (Katanas don't enjoy any special immunity to sundering)

A katana should be indestructible if you have a lawful alignment.

Being made of inferior Japanese steel, katanas auto-fail if the opponent attempts to sunder it.

Cheliax

Cranefist wrote:
I'm going to post my awakened blade rules for paladins in the house rules thread. I think paladins are a little under powered to wizards so I'm going to give them full channeling and channel smite as a free feat when using a katana.

Oh, so you really are trolling.

1/10, you almost had me believing you were possibly being serious.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
FallofCamelot wrote:

Thanks for the giggle.

On the off chance that you are actually serious there is no way a three foot length of metal swung by your hand can cut through 10cms of armour.

King Bradley can kill a tank.


Silly ToZ, those are sabers, not Katana. Learn2lookcloseley

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

He said 'three foot length of metal' not 'katana'.


Clearly I need to learn2read >.<

Shadow Lodge

Your focus, needs more focus.


Seranov wrote:
Cranefist wrote:
I'm going to post my awakened blade rules for paladins in the house rules thread. I think paladins are a little under powered to wizards so I'm going to give them full channeling and channel smite as a free feat when using a katana.

Oh, so you really are trolling.

1/10, you almost had me believing you were possibly being serious.

I like how many people think the op is serious but how few think a good use of their time is answering my question rather than pissing on it.

If you get trolled by someone, you deserve it.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

*slow clap*


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FallofCamelot wrote:


Frankly I could not imagine anime without the naturalistic realism that informs the artform. To imagine an anime containing over the top explosions, abstract anatomies or rediculous plots would be like finding a factual error on the internet.

Now I want to see a Micheal Bay anime :P


If you like Over the Top explosions and you haven't seen it yet, try Tengen Toppa, Gurren Lagann. There's even a Katana (arguably a Nodachi, but if my memory is right the characters called it a Katana) in a few episodes :P


Cranefist wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Cranefist wrote:
I'm going to post my awakened blade rules for paladins in the house rules thread. I think paladins are a little under powered to wizards so I'm going to give them full channeling and channel smite as a free feat when using a katana.

Oh, so you really are trolling.

1/10, you almost had me believing you were possibly being serious.

I like how many people think the op is serious but how few think a good use of their time is answering my question rather than pissing on it.

If you get trolled by someone, you deserve it.

No, committing a dishonorable act while wielding any weapon does not cause it to break (barring a custom magic item of some sort.)

Now, to satisfy my curiosity, where did you get the impression it does?


Rite Publishing's Way of the Samurai by Jonathan McAnulty has a Paladin archetype for Japanese style campaigns called Yamabushi, that might fit your needs as well.


That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" BS that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.
Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

This whole thread has been a blast. I needed the laughs.


If a katana is so sharp it can cut through anything...
And a katana is so tough it can't be broken...

What happens if a katana strikes another katana?

Shadow Lodge

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It's like dividing by zero.


TOZ wrote:
It's like dividing by zero.

The awesomeness approaches infinity?

Shadow Lodge

Not nearly as cool as made out to be.

Silver Crusade

Paladin 5 / Bladebound Magus 5

There, you have a lawful good indestructible weapon (katana if you wish).

I actually made this character before and it was great.


ProximaC wrote:

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" BS that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.
Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?

A troll within a troll within a troll....


It's worth mentioning (whether anyone is serious or not, it's a fun thread) that katanas are superior to medieval European weapons because katanas were used several centuries later. I'm sure some of the posters here know Japanese history bette than I do, but comparing a katana to a longsword is like comparing WWII firearms to Civil War firearms.

That said, there is interesting folklore surrounding katanas and a code of honor. If you play a paladin with a katana-with-a-code-of-honor it is likely there would be overlap between the two codes of conduct/honor, but some areas without overlap.

Since that's a lot of seriousness for a light-hearted thread, I'll also mention that a hat rack is a more dangerous weapon than a katana. I saw a martial arts movie where an old guy with what looked like a hat rack for a weapon killed thirty katana-wielding ninjas.


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Apparently the only thing that could cut Chuck Norris's beard was his Katana. The reason he now has a beard is because he lost it.

The legends state that one day when England needs it once again, the Lady in the Lake will return it to the lands of men and to the rightfull King of England. Excalibur was actually a Katana. Chuck Norris's shaving Katana.

Fact.


So what if katanas were made more recently? They were still made out of inferior steel. That is why they did that folding thing, not because it was a way for them to channel their exotic Japanese awesomeness into the blade, it was because they were making swords out of crap. Everyone knows western swords were leaps and bounds ahead, the only reason they stopped using swords is because they had guns, which were even better.

And anyway, swords are for pansies. You want to see a real Japanese weapon of awesomeness, feast your eyes.

And anyway, I may or may not mean any of this, decide for yourself.

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